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Thanks a ton broseidon I really appreciate it!This matchup is pretty easy for me. Lucas destroys floaties so it's not hard to kill or rack up percent. Down air up smash kills super early, like 70% give or take 5%. So obviously since it's not hard to kill you probably have trouble getting in or starting combos. Basically with luigi you have to look at his movement and what he does out of wavedash. so usually they will either WD in and throw out a move or WD in then WD back out to try and punish you for trying to punish him. So once you figure out there movement patterns it's pretty easy to start punishing them. So most of this MU is looking at his movement patterns and learning how to punish them. It is a lot of bait and punish.
Important side notes:
- luigis tend to mash nair out of combos so try and bait it out and punish him for throwing it out.
- don't go to a super flat stage and give him room to move. (Definitly ban FD)
- pressure is really good against him. See how he reacts to certain things and figure out how you can punish his oos options.
- luigi will probably WD or roll oos, which is generally easy to punish if you can figure out which way they will go depending on where they are on the stage.
- mix up your recovery, his bair is really good at stuffing pkt so if he's holding ledge try to recover high or use tether.
- pkf is really good, it stops his WD approach as long he doesn't throw out a quick move and can lead to combos which should always lead to death.
- Lucas definitly wins this MU, try and get some friendlies in with the luigi and see what your doing wrong and why your getting hit or dropping combos, and try to look for options that will solve these problems.
Do you guys pretty much agree with this, and what would you add/change?I think without platforms Lucas can make the MU even, but with platforms snake absolutely dominates. Lucas has some trouble with vertical movement due to how much recovery he loses from using his double jump in tandem with a solid up air to approach with. PK Freeze is a really difficult thing for snake to deal with as all of his projectiles demand considerable frame commitment and Lucas's PK Freeze travels far and relatively fast, disrupting that. There's a local Lucas here where I have to go Marth against them otherwise I get PK freeze camped for 8 minutes and lose lol. The combo potential on both of them is enormous, and having a spike and a meteor in Lucas's kit helps considerably. If you can keep the pressure up on Snake and mix up when you go in, I think it can be really hard for Snake.
You really don't need a secondary. Focus on Lucas for now if you plan on being serious about smash. Work on your neutral and solidify your punish game. Spacies & Marth are extremely easy to gimp / 0-death if you practice your punishes enough. If you don't have a good neutral in the first place, Spacies & Marth will body any character you try to play.And I probably need a character to help me cover my spacie and Marth matches, so what is a good secondary that can cover that role?
eh yes and no. I didn't really feel like it needed to be said because who doesn't Lucas combo in this game? I can say for every single bad Lucas MU, "Oh sure, Lucas gets combo'd but Lucas can do the same." but honestly it'd feel pretty redundant to have to add that in for every single bad MU when I'm only making discussion and not writing out some MU guide. Remember, this is all opinion/theory made from both observation and experience. I think it's pretty universally known that Lucas has no problems comboing anyone in this game, even characters who are awkward to combo, like Luigi. But if you wanted me to spell it out in plain text, well there you go. The fact that I don't have anyone in the -3 section for Lucas is also kind of me saying but not explicitly saying that Lucas can and will f*** anyone in the game up if played right (That and he's obviously just too damn good in general to have a MU THAT bad).but this neglects that Lucas has the ability to do the same to him.
Fair enough. So do you think that Lucas has no -2 MUs in the game, that we shouldn't express which MUs we think may be bad for him (not for a while, at least), or are you simply saying that I may have the wrong ones?I'm not suggesting in any way that Lucas has the favor in the MU but that all aspects of it should be examined before we come to a conclusion. I'd actually say that for basically all of the -2 MU's on your list.