MrMarbles
Smash Lord
i see no difference between the two
-
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N64 Controllers discussion
- Thread starter sjnromw
- Start date
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
The controller on the right has the 3rd party OEM replacement.
They're almost identical in looks to begin with, and then factoring in the poor picture quality it makes it almost impossible to tell the difference. So you see how easy it is to potentially get duped into buying a controller with a 3rd party replacement on ebay/amazon.
I really wish I had a quality camera then I could get clear pictures as to how to tell the difference.
They're almost identical in looks to begin with, and then factoring in the poor picture quality it makes it almost impossible to tell the difference. So you see how easy it is to potentially get duped into buying a controller with a 3rd party replacement on ebay/amazon.
I really wish I had a quality camera then I could get clear pictures as to how to tell the difference.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
are the inside mechanics of 3rd party sticks the same as 1st party sticks? Could you ever mix and match parts?
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
The parts are the same design but slightly smaller in size and lighter. So you can't really mix and match parts. Only the spring, you can replace the 3rd party spring with a stronger 1st party spring which helps a bit. The smaller and lighter axis pieces plus a weaker spring make the 3rd party OEM sticks feel looser, even brand new. Takes less force to move the stick, which I personally dislike.
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
Has anyone tried the raphnet gamecube to n64 adapter? I was thinking about getting one to play SSB with one of my gamecube controllers, but I wanted to see what people thought of them first if possible.
Sangoku
Smash Master
I have it, but I've never tried playing smash 64 with the gamecube controller. I've used it for Melee on dolphin though and I think it works great. Kinda tricky to calibrate things at first, but all the necessary information should be on raph website.
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
I was talking about the adapter that let you play on an n64 console using a gamecube controller, not the GC to PC adapter.
Sangoku
Smash Master
Oh my bad, I misread. Then I don't know, sorry.
I bought the ralphnet adapter and have been playing 64 and melee with it, works really well and no complaints. If you have a gamecube controller and plan to play melee or something then get the dual 64/GCN adapter, it's 5$ more but supports both controllers.
Sangoku
Smash Master
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
chain ace uses gc to n64 console adapter
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
Wouldn't it be better to fabricate the replacements parts out of metal? I assume it would be more expensive but they would last alot longer wouldn't they?
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
ideally, yeah. if that were the case, we'd just need to cover the board inside with some silicone or something, and figure out a way for the metal that would eventually scratch off from getting in the space between the the photodiode wheel
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
@knitefox the silicon would be to prevent shorts? I imagine the metal pieces would take a pretty long time to wear down, does the plastic that wears off get in the space between the photodiode wheel? Has anyone looked into, how much it would cost to make the pieces that wear down out of metal, metal parts would mean a much longer life for the pieces and naturally more time untill you have to replace them again.
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
Can anyone who has played smash with a makopad/superpad give me their opinions on whether the controller is worth buying to play smash on?
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
no its not good. ive owned two in the past and komo has one currently, so i can test again...
heres the jist of it
Z weird size and position
A/B/C buttons all have awkward channels and an odd top shape
stick feels like a rough, beta version of GC stick, in a bad way
only good part about that controller is R/L
if it's cheap enough, try it for yourself
heres the jist of it
Z weird size and position
A/B/C buttons all have awkward channels and an odd top shape
stick feels like a rough, beta version of GC stick, in a bad way
only good part about that controller is R/L
if it's cheap enough, try it for yourself
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
@kniteohox hmmm, ok, I probably won't get one in that case. Just curious has anyone tried any of the mods out there that replace the nintendo stock sticks with gamecube/lodgenet64/PS sticks?
MrMarbles
Smash Lord
those types of sticks tend to make certain things a little off. since the game was designed with the n64 stick in mind doing things like tilts or smashes can be difficult and sometimes it can be hard to not sprint with those too. some people still prefer gc style sticks such as in the hori mini pad
breakthrough
Smash Journeyman
MrMarbles
Smash Lord
i think we all have our fingers crossed that we can reproduce the joystick parts so we can play smash when we are old men
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
I tried the hori mini pad, though I think I might have got one that is sort of worn out because the it seems a little unresponsive. The other problem I was having with it is my hands get sort of cramped and the r button is pretty awkwardly placed. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep it or not at this point.
In my search for a joystick solution I found a thread started by a guy in Germany that is making joystick upgrade kits to upgrade the "gamecube style" joysticks you can buy on ebay/amazon, it's basically a higher quality circuit board as well as an improved potentiometer. One of the problem with the GC style replacements apparently was that the manufacturer used a cheap chip that skipped steps. He is planning on making another batch in late august/early september, and is going to only take preorders, but he hasn't started taking preorders yet, all the info for ordering the kits is in the first post and he ships world wide.
http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/topic/7360571/1/
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5023.0 thats a link detailing the order process
if you scroll a bit down the first page, there is a detailed analysis of these replacement kit modified sticks.
Another option which I haven't seen mentioned yet here is a mod that involves an n64 controller called the "lodgenet" controller, which is the controller that hooks up to your tv in hotels that works with a pay per play service, the second version of the lodgenet controller used a gamecube style stick too, but manufactured by nintendo, specifically for the n64, it involves a little soldering and hot gluing because the controller outputs via phoneline, and also finding a lodgenet controller in the first place which can be hard but they do show up on ebay with some regularity and if you read through the thread there is a guy who is willing to sell people living in europe the controllers, though I'm not sure how much he is charging. The advantage to modding one of these to play on a console is that it is a joystick developed specifically to be used on an n64 so no microchip is necessary, for what it's worth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LodgeNet-Controller.jpg there is a picture of the controller
http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/topic/7389142/2/ here is a guide to making your own.
In my search for a joystick solution I found a thread started by a guy in Germany that is making joystick upgrade kits to upgrade the "gamecube style" joysticks you can buy on ebay/amazon, it's basically a higher quality circuit board as well as an improved potentiometer. One of the problem with the GC style replacements apparently was that the manufacturer used a cheap chip that skipped steps. He is planning on making another batch in late august/early september, and is going to only take preorders, but he hasn't started taking preorders yet, all the info for ordering the kits is in the first post and he ships world wide.
http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/topic/7360571/1/
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5023.0 thats a link detailing the order process
if you scroll a bit down the first page, there is a detailed analysis of these replacement kit modified sticks.
Another option which I haven't seen mentioned yet here is a mod that involves an n64 controller called the "lodgenet" controller, which is the controller that hooks up to your tv in hotels that works with a pay per play service, the second version of the lodgenet controller used a gamecube style stick too, but manufactured by nintendo, specifically for the n64, it involves a little soldering and hot gluing because the controller outputs via phoneline, and also finding a lodgenet controller in the first place which can be hard but they do show up on ebay with some regularity and if you read through the thread there is a guy who is willing to sell people living in europe the controllers, though I'm not sure how much he is charging. The advantage to modding one of these to play on a console is that it is a joystick developed specifically to be used on an n64 so no microchip is necessary, for what it's worth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LodgeNet-Controller.jpg there is a picture of the controller
http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/topic/7389142/2/ here is a guide to making your own.
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
@rustyw I've heard pretty good things about them, butI haven't found any feedback from smashers yet, so I'm officially encouraging you to install them and fireup ye ole n64 for some 1p break the targets/board the platforms madness.
Myself I'm currently working on the mod where you put a gamecube joystick into a retro-bit n64 controller, I'm got all the wiring done and working, I just need to get the joystick mounted/properly positioned now and i'll be able to test it out. I'll post some pics when I'm done, it's gonna be ugly, but its cool because that's the way I like it.
Myself I'm currently working on the mod where you put a gamecube joystick into a retro-bit n64 controller, I'm got all the wiring done and working, I just need to get the joystick mounted/properly positioned now and i'll be able to test it out. I'll post some pics when I'm done, it's gonna be ugly, but its cool because that's the way I like it.
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
ok so im going to start looking into 3d printers/scanners now
i just today bought a BRAND NEW, SEALED, UNOPENED 1st party n64 controller; a clear one in a blister pack seal for the best possible joystick parts scanning/reproduction i assume possible, by me, or anyone else who is serious about playing ssb64 when we're 40+ y/o LOL. ok, maybe not that long, but yeah, a quality and worthy replacement instead of 3rd party or super rare newish joysticks.
also 3d printing is way of the future.
xDDDDD
i just today bought a BRAND NEW, SEALED, UNOPENED 1st party n64 controller; a clear one in a blister pack seal for the best possible joystick parts scanning/reproduction i assume possible, by me, or anyone else who is serious about playing ssb64 when we're 40+ y/o LOL. ok, maybe not that long, but yeah, a quality and worthy replacement instead of 3rd party or super rare newish joysticks.
also 3d printing is way of the future.
xDDDDD
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
@KnitePhox
http://www.alexmachineinc.com/
These guys are in my town(San Diego), they make small medical machine parts among other things, which is really serious stuff, so I'm pretty sure they could do some joystick parts. Once we have 3d renderings of the parts we need they can give us a quote for different materials. I know I said this before in this thread but I think metal is the way to go with the parts because metal parts will last much longer, although I suppose that you might want some of the pieces to have a tiny bit of give so they don't wear on the plastic pieces they interface with that we're keeping from the original joysticks? I'm not sure about this. Does anyone know what kind of plastic Nintendo used in the OEM sticks/have any idea how strong they are/our replacements will need to be? Also I'll start looking for a 3d scanner that we can buy time on(possibly use for free?).
This is from their website:
We machine all kinds of metals, plastics, ceramics, and even G4 and magnetic material. We mill pieces up to 50″ long x 20″ wide x 25″ tall. We can do lathe-work up to 15″ diameter x 20.5″ cut length. Your drawings are reviewed for tolerances and positioning call-outs to assist us in making a good set-up. One of our hobbies is considering how to set-up a part to be able to make it cheaper. You will find us to be one of the best low price machining facilities in San Diego.
We are experienced in making all kinds of unique features:
or plated per your specifications for finishing.
Send us a CAD .igs file and we can even quote you without a drawing. We also work with Solidworks, so the original file can also work.
end webstite quote
Holy crap that is some advanced stish! 3D machining is sooooo cooooool!
http://www.alexmachineinc.com/
These guys are in my town(San Diego), they make small medical machine parts among other things, which is really serious stuff, so I'm pretty sure they could do some joystick parts. Once we have 3d renderings of the parts we need they can give us a quote for different materials. I know I said this before in this thread but I think metal is the way to go with the parts because metal parts will last much longer, although I suppose that you might want some of the pieces to have a tiny bit of give so they don't wear on the plastic pieces they interface with that we're keeping from the original joysticks? I'm not sure about this. Does anyone know what kind of plastic Nintendo used in the OEM sticks/have any idea how strong they are/our replacements will need to be? Also I'll start looking for a 3d scanner that we can buy time on(possibly use for free?).
This is from their website:
We machine all kinds of metals, plastics, ceramics, and even G4 and magnetic material. We mill pieces up to 50″ long x 20″ wide x 25″ tall. We can do lathe-work up to 15″ diameter x 20.5″ cut length. Your drawings are reviewed for tolerances and positioning call-outs to assist us in making a good set-up. One of our hobbies is considering how to set-up a part to be able to make it cheaper. You will find us to be one of the best low price machining facilities in San Diego.
We are experienced in making all kinds of unique features:
- Drilling manifold fluidic paths that meet at odd angles
- Machining metal walls .01″ thick
- Parts that look like ink jet printer plates
or plated per your specifications for finishing.
Send us a CAD .igs file and we can even quote you without a drawing. We also work with Solidworks, so the original file can also work.
end webstite quote
Holy crap that is some advanced stish! 3D machining is sooooo cooooool!
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
Metal will scratch up the plastic parts it rubs against. It will have a different weight than plastic so it won't be like the original. Worst of all when you first start to play with it it will be ice cold, and if you try to play smash outside the joystick will get way too hot!
We should use whatever kind of plastic they used for the originals and just make sure they are all greased regularly and they will last forever. Plus if we can make them once we can make them again.
Knight you are the man. I want to have fresh joysticks so when I'm 40 I can coach my kid to become the greatest of all time.
We should use whatever kind of plastic they used for the originals and just make sure they are all greased regularly and they will last forever. Plus if we can make them once we can make them again.
Knight you are the man. I want to have fresh joysticks so when I'm 40 I can coach my kid to become the greatest of all time.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71DF5AJCQ0L._SL500_AA300_.gif
those had metal joysticks (i did not open it up to see the rest of it but the rest of the stick below the grey there is metal) but a plastic covering. when i borrowed my ex's, i found the stick to be absolutely pristine, but extremely hard to use because it sat much higher than a regular one. i couldn't di properly and i couldn't land a lot of moves.
also i can't tell if you're joking about most of this haha. who the **** plays outside? unless we remanufactured the controller to be made entirely of metal instead of just the joystick box and component parts, there should be no worries.
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
I'm joking about playing outside, but if we did, the joystick would burn your thumb on a hot summer day. And you'd get cold hand johns in the winter.
Also battlecow, you know poking holes in your condoms is just gonna make a mess all over your hand right?
Also battlecow, you know poking holes in your condoms is just gonna make a mess all over your hand right?
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
i avoided the obvious bcow joke
but no, the joystick would have a piece of plastic or rubber over it like the link i linked. that would protect your fingers.
but no, the joystick would have a piece of plastic or rubber over it like the link i linked. that would protect your fingers.
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
yes but if we would go to all that trouble, why not just use plastic? Its not like the sticks have structural durability issues (sans YBOMBB's controller lol), and if we end up with a plastic exterior we might as well just use entirely plastic. We could cover only the top of the stick and leave the bottom metal, but that will greatly increase production cost I'm pretty sure. Plus, I don't see any reason to think metal would be better than plastic in terms of durability as an exterior.
You masturbate with a condom on?
God damn 64 community, I love you, but you're strange.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
use protection even when jacking it.
who knows where your hands have been?
who knows where your hands have been?
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
"Metal will scratch up the plastic parts it rubs against." - clubbadubba
That was my main concern, I think the way to go is make the first batch out of plastic, and make a handful of metal prototypes, and give them to some people that play alot of smash/n64 for durability testing, opening up the joystick and photographing the wear and tear every month of two.
EDIT:
.http://proto3000.com/3d-laser-scanning-services-overview.php
here is a place that you mail in the object(s) you would like 3d scanned and they scan them, email you the new files, and mail you back the object.
Also, KniteFox are you going to publicly release the specs of the joystick parts you get scanned or keep them secret?
That was my main concern, I think the way to go is make the first batch out of plastic, and make a handful of metal prototypes, and give them to some people that play alot of smash/n64 for durability testing, opening up the joystick and photographing the wear and tear every month of two.
EDIT:
.http://proto3000.com/3d-laser-scanning-services-overview.php
here is a place that you mail in the object(s) you would like 3d scanned and they scan them, email you the new files, and mail you back the object.
Also, KniteFox are you going to publicly release the specs of the joystick parts you get scanned or keep them secret?
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
Crap double post
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
i will release them to those who want them a.k.a. will upload them
my efforts are for the community, not my own benefit
selfishness and hoarding knowledge are detrimental to basically everything in the world, down with the ways of old
free education > ignorance
INTERNET PWNS.
EggSelent
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2013
- Messages
- 189
Can't you buy regular 1st party controllers in newish condition for a manageable cost? I don't know if there exist 3rd party controllers that are superior for playing smash, but I strongly prefer the 1st party ones for general gaming.
In recent years I've made sure I've had at least 2 in decently good condition. If a controller reaches the condition where you can rotate the joystick by simply rotating the controller, it finds its way into the dreg controller stash. If we're drinking, daring to play Mario Party without the class action lawsuit gloves, or if you're an immature prick known to slam or toss the controllers, you can be sure the dreg controllers will be used.
In recent years I've made sure I've had at least 2 in decently good condition. If a controller reaches the condition where you can rotate the joystick by simply rotating the controller, it finds its way into the dreg controller stash. If we're drinking, daring to play Mario Party without the class action lawsuit gloves, or if you're an immature prick known to slam or toss the controllers, you can be sure the dreg controllers will be used.
KnitePhox
Smash Lord
you can still find those good controllers sure. but for how long at a decent price???
the goal behind this fabrication idea, IN MY OPINION, is so that everyone can have great quality sticks constantly to replace the worn ones
ez revive old controllers, get more people to start playing by donating them a controller when they buy a stick+adapter, have 2 tournament controllers and 1 online controller, ...there are many possibilities PWN
the goal behind this fabrication idea, IN MY OPINION, is so that everyone can have great quality sticks constantly to replace the worn ones
ez revive old controllers, get more people to start playing by donating them a controller when they buy a stick+adapter, have 2 tournament controllers and 1 online controller, ...there are many possibilities PWN
Roboplodicus
Smash Cadet
"Can't you buy regular 1st party controllers in newish condition for a manageable cost? I don't know if there exist 3rd party controllers that are superior for playing smash, but I strongly prefer the 1st party ones for general gaming. "
Newish condition controllers are actually pretty hard to find. As far as 3rd party controllers go, IMO there are a couple decent 3rd party alternitives, first the Hori Mini-pad is pretty solid, the only problem I had with it is that it is sooo small, I'm 5'8" and my hands aren't even very big and my hands feel pretty cramped and the R button is especially hard to hit for me, though I've found I'm a little more likely to find a controller uncomfortable than other folks though I know there are some people that have bigger hands than me and can use the mini-pad fine. The second option I would reccommend is one of the new "Yobo" brand controllers that has a PS style stick, not the old "Yobo" brand n64 controllers with the original style n64 joystick. The new PS style ones are actually pretty decent for high level smash, which i was suprised by, because the other ones are crap. Here are pictures for reference.
This is the one you want
This is the one you don't want
Note that on ebay/amazon I haven't seen sellers differentiate between the two, and the packaging Yobo uses makes it so you can't see what type of joystick the controller has, but just ask the seller what type of joystick the controller they are selling has. Some people Also recommend the "makopad" 64 but I personally haven't tried it so I can't say how it rates one way or another.
Newish condition controllers are actually pretty hard to find. As far as 3rd party controllers go, IMO there are a couple decent 3rd party alternitives, first the Hori Mini-pad is pretty solid, the only problem I had with it is that it is sooo small, I'm 5'8" and my hands aren't even very big and my hands feel pretty cramped and the R button is especially hard to hit for me, though I've found I'm a little more likely to find a controller uncomfortable than other folks though I know there are some people that have bigger hands than me and can use the mini-pad fine. The second option I would reccommend is one of the new "Yobo" brand controllers that has a PS style stick, not the old "Yobo" brand n64 controllers with the original style n64 joystick. The new PS style ones are actually pretty decent for high level smash, which i was suprised by, because the other ones are crap. Here are pictures for reference.
This is the one you want
This is the one you don't want
Note that on ebay/amazon I haven't seen sellers differentiate between the two, and the packaging Yobo uses makes it so you can't see what type of joystick the controller has, but just ask the seller what type of joystick the controller they are selling has. Some people Also recommend the "makopad" 64 but I personally haven't tried it so I can't say how it rates one way or another.