N64 Controllers discussion

[felipe_9595]

I've finally found my controller! Way back when I started this thread I was suffering from poorly made replacement sticks and a couple poorly described "like new" controllers I ordered from ebay, and I had resigned to using whatever controller was available.

Recently I ordered a Gamecube to N64 adapter from http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/gc_to_n64_adapter/index.php and I feel I've finally arrived at my perfect solution.

This adapter is great for a few reasons:
Gamecube controllers are cheap and easy to replace should they wear out
I cannot find any input lag difference from the standard N64 controller
the joystick sensitivity is perfectly symmetrical
tilt range and deadzone feel great
reprogrammable buttons make it easy to find your most comfortable button layout
ability to save multiple controller profiles in case you ever find a reason to play something other than smash
the length of a gamecube controller cable is certainly a plus as well, I can sit wherever I want!


For me, the only drawbacks of using a gamecube controller are the L and R buttons. It does take some getting used to, but I have little trouble getting my z cancels now that I have adjusted my muscle memory. ( I find that setting the L and R buttons to be Z and R respectively, and then programming them to register a press at the 50% threshold instead of the fully depressed 'click' makes things very comfortable.)


The adapter is around $30 shipped to the US (keep in mind the price on the site is Canadian currency). I figure this could be a great option for many people who already have a gamecube controller, and even if you have to get a controller plus the adapter, it is probably cheaper than any Hori controller you could find. I have also seen a Hori controller wear out and have deadzone problems, which makes the gamecube adapter a safer option.

If you are a super serious player you might want spend the money and play with Hori controllers because the Z and R buttons are definitely preferable, but for $30 this adapter satisfies all of my needs and has breathed a new life into my smash game. I didn't improve much just from getting this controller, but at least I can't john about messy N64 sticks anymore.

I didn't mean for this to be so long so I apologize, and I want to say that I am in no way affiliated with raphnet-tech. I only hope that this can make the game more fun for some of you struggling to find a good controller.

I know exactly how to feel your L/R problem. Remove the springs, that's exactly what i use

 

[Indefa]

I know exactly how to feel your L/R problem. Remove the springs, that's exactly what i use

I've heard that removing the springs makes them feel really average. You find them easy to press?

 

[felipe_9595]

I've heard that removing the springs makes them feel really average. You find them easy to press?

Extremely, they are ultra comfortable, imagine a more "clicky" R Button from a N64 controller.

 

[sjnromw]

I know exactly how to feel your L/R problem. Remove the springs, that's exactly what i use

Great! Will do, thanks!

 

[anonymouschris01]

I got a gamecube to n64 adapter and my first impressions are very positive.

I mapped the d-pad to the control stick as well, so I have both digital and analog movement on the controller. I'm able to get very good DI with this without jamming and ruining the control stick, which is a huge benefit.

Hey firo, I've had the GameCube adapter for a while now and just tried mapping the Dpad to the joystick movements as well, I don't have it in my head yet to mash on that when trying to DI yet, but I'm hoping it works. I feel like DI with the actual stick is a little unresponsive, do you get that too? The two things I've done to reduce the issue with the L and R springy bumpers was to map the Z button as R and simply Z cancel with that, and I mapped the Y button (I think I can't remember, the one to the side of the A button) as Z. I find it's not too difficult to slide from that big ass A button to Y right before you hit the ground and Z cancel with that.

 

[ganas]

Extremely, they are ultra comfortable, imagine a more "clicky" R Button from a N64 controller.

How hard is it to remove the springs? Is it an easy 15 minute fix or does it take a while?

 

[KnitePhox]

use a triwing screwdriver and #0 phillips, easymode

 

[felipe_9595]

How hard is it to remove the springs? Is it an easy 15 minute fix or does it take a while?

More like a 3 minute fix.

 

[wprpalmeida]

quick update: I have a prototype PCB in the making now, but will test it on a protoboard during the weekend. I really hope this will turn out to be great.

I have a little request to anyone here that owns a Hori Mini Pad and a Flashcart. Would it be possible for any of you to post a Screenshot of the Analog Stick Test made by sanni?

Link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20912715/N64/ControllerTest.zip

The one I have is presumably from a bad Hori Mini pad and is very warped.

 

[Fireblaster]

Didn't feel like making a new thread for this.

There is a part at the end of this video that shows what this repair method does to a joystick that is in REALLY BAD condition.

 

[KnitePhox]

Bravo fire, yo those are fat qtips, elephant ear compatible

 

[dav3yb]

quick update: I have a prototype PCB in the making now, but will test it on a protoboard during the weekend. I really hope this will turn out to be great.

I have a little request to anyone here that owns a Hori Mini Pad and a Flashcart. Would it be possible for any of you to post a Screenshot of the Analog Stick Test made by sanni?

Link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20912715/N64/ControllerTest.zip

The one I have is presumably from a bad Hori Mini pad and is very warped.

did anyone happen to get this for you yet? I have a flash cart and a mini pad, and ive got the test rom already. I assume you just want picks of the sticks radial pathing?

 

[Grizzmeister]

Recently I ordered a Gamecube to N64 adapter from http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/gc_to_n64_adapter/index.php and I feel I've finally arrived at my perfect solution.

This does indeed seem like the ideal solution and makes sense since you can play all the other console Smash games with the GameCube controller too.

So-called collectors have hoarded up all of the N64 controllers with good analog sticks so the possibility of finding them out in the wild nowadays is slim to none.

I absolutely love the GameCube controller and recently got one of the Japanese white Smash edition examples for just $27 with free shipping and no tax. Here's a picture.

 

[wprpalmeida]

did anyone happen to get this for you yet? I have a flash cart and a mini pad, and ive got the test rom already. I assume you just want picks of the sticks radial pathing?

no dav3yb, if you could send it to me that'd be very helpful. i had a last minute trip last week and ended up having to put the project aside for a while, but now it's back on full steam.

 

[dav3yb]

no dav3yb, if you could send it to me that'd be very helpful. i had a last minute trip last week and ended up having to put the project aside for a while, but now it's back on full steam.

at some point today ill try and hook up my N64 and load that up and get it for you. I'm a bit curious myself how it'll look as well... i have a feeling it'll be pretty close to what the original ones look like.

 

[dav3yb]

In case anyone is wondering, I ran my hori mini pad through the controller test ROM.

Here's the results of the controller benchmark: http://i.imgur.com/JeM9eoQ.jpg

 

[Indefa]

In case anyone is wondering, I ran my hori mini pad through the controller test ROM.

Here's the results of the controller benchmark: http://i.imgur.com/JeM9eoQ.jpg

Wow yours looks so much better than mine....and I've bought 3 Horis...this is the best result I get. http://imgur.com/EWhPBMy

EDIT: Also did my gamecube controller with it. Not perfect but looks a lot better. http://puu.sh/ifBax/6ea8d8524b.jpg

 

[Zad]

I use a Hori but I have a nice stash of standard N64 controllers as well.

 

[nickthename]

I use a Hori but I have a nice stash of standard N64 controllers as well.

Damn, I'm a tad jelly. Gotta remind myself I don't need that many lol

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 55385
I use a Hori but I have a nice stash of standard N64 controllers as well.View attachment 55386

i'm in love. <3

 

[wprpalmeida]

In case anyone is wondering, I ran my hori mini pad through the controller test ROM.

Here's the results of the controller benchmark: http://i.imgur.com/JeM9eoQ.jpg

Wow yours looks so much better than mine....and I've bought 3 Horis...this is the best result I get. http://imgur.com/EWhPBMy

EDIT: Also did my gamecube controller with it. Not perfect but looks a lot better. http://puu.sh/ifBax/6ea8d8524b.jpg

Thanks guys for your help. It looks to me as this controller has some sort of scaling implemented in its sticks. Notice how different the polygon on the restrictor gate is different to the one reported electronically to the console. If you compare it to the original N64 stick range, you can see the differences (original stick: http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac128/macN64/N64 Controller App/D_Aqua_T.png and http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac128/macN64/N64 Controller App/E_ClearBlue_T.png). Notice how much less diagonal travel the Mini Pads have compared to the N64 original sticks (neverming the actual range, I'm strictly talking about the polygon shapes). Of course, the N64 games were programmed expecting this larger diagonal travel, which is why a stick feels unprecise, especially in precision-driven games such as Smash and GoldenEye/Perfect Dark.


I have gotten my board and my code working with the original potentiometers in the RepairBox, but it just confirmed my suspicions: the potentiometers are terrible. So now I'm scouring the market for suitable replacements, but everything takes months to get through this wretched country's customs.

 

[dav3yb]

I'll just note that my controller rest are displaying on an hdtv, so it might be a bit stretched out.

 

[wprpalmeida]

I'll just note that my controller rest are displaying on an hdtv, so it might be a bit stretched out.

I noticed that. I just resized your image dividing the width by 4 and the height by 3. The shape is still very different. The original N64 is a square-ish hexagon, whilst the Hori is more of an equilateral hexagon. IMO, that's where one of the issues lie.

 

[NGUY (guitarstage)]

is the superpad any good ?

 

[KnitePhox]

http://www.museumofplay.org/online-collections/images/Z005/Z00538/Z0053849.jpg

stick top can crack/snap off, the face buttons(A/B/C buttons) suck; overall no

this is better 3rd party imo SHARK PAD 64

http://www.nesworld.com/n64/joypads/sharkpadpro64.jpg

face buttons also suck but not as bad as superpad.

 

[AthensHorseParty]

So for anyone who uses a "Derek Stick" what settings on pj64 do you use to most closely approximate the way it feels on console?

 

[Deleted member]

How many of you grease your sticks? Is it really that important?

 

[dav3yb]

How many of you grease your sticks? Is it really that important?

I grease all of mine. If you've ever opened a stick up you'd notice the main issue that kills them is the wear down of components due to friction. By applying grease it greatly reduces the friction and can extend the life of the controller 100 fold.

 

[Shears]

It also feels good. I always lube my stick before use.

 

[breakthrough]

How many of you grease your sticks? Is it really that important?

Other than Boom keeping an extra ungreased controller for tournaments (better DI apparently), any ssb64 player who respects their controllers will grease them to extend their life as much as possible. The amount of damage months and months of intense DI can do to an ungreased joystick will mean you'll have to replace your controller all the time. With a greased joystick, I usually upgrade about every year or so personally. Others will continue to use their janky joystick instead of shelling out another $30 though.

tl;dr If you care about your controllers, grease the joysticks.

 

[MCG]

I know it took me some time but I have finally had time to work on the PCB.

I used the ROM from NEOFLASH to evaluate the sensibility. Since I don't have flashcards, those results are from the mess emulator and using a raphnet n64 to USB adapter. You must not calibrate your joystick in the control panel if you want to obtain comparable results.

As a reference, here is what an original (new) stick would look like:

http://i.imgur.com/W2o4vWu.png

This is what the Derek stick looks like without the PCB:

http://i.imgur.com/fEhCi5P.png

You can see that it's way too sensitive. In every direction, it reaches the maximum input.

And now with micro's PCB and you follow the instructions:

http://i.imgur.com/8EtvjyZ.png

I'll admit the shape is slightly different than an original stick but that is due to the restrictor gate from the Derek stick. It's still very close.

I have no problem to perform running stick jump and land on the side platforms with fox/yoshi in dreamland. The yoshi jump test allows me to land on the tent.

When playing, I have to admit that the stick is still a little bit more sensitive than an original one. Maybe it's because it feels stiffer, but during the first 30mins I had trouble with platdrop/uairs or fast fall/uairs. After practicing a few hours yesterday, I adapted quickly and I think it should not be a problem in the future. If you were able to adapt to the sensitivity without the PCB replacement, it won't bother you at all. If the derek stick is about 60% too sensitive, with the PCB it might be 5% too sensitive, which is very respectable.

Overall, I would say that it's a very good replacement for someone who can't bother greesing the sticks every month and is willing to adapt to a different stick. You basically have an original controller with no maintenance.

And actually, the hardest part is not even soldering. Instead of having a screw, they decided to put glue on the derek stick box. You have to open it with an utility knife or xacto and be very careful. I took my time and managed to cut myself anyway and bleed profusely.

 

[nickthename]

That sounds good, I'd like to get a pcb replacement for my Derek stick. Unfortunately, it seems like they're always out of stock.

 

[ganas]

That sounds good, I'd like to get a pcb replacement for my Derek stick. Unfortunately, it seems like they're always out of stock.

For anyone else who is looking to buy some of these PCBs, I found the thread again here: http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5803.40

No posts from micro in the past few months though. Hopefully we get another batch soon.

 

[Zantetsu]

I am going to apologize in advance if this has been posted, discussed, or solved already. 513 posts are a lot to go through so I'd rather just post my findings here. Before you read the wall of text, I should say that I believe I found a way to more accurately adjust your range through direct input itself and not through the emulator plugin, along with testing the newly adjusted range in the controller benchmark test so that you can physically see the range you have adjusted it to and tweak it to get it as close as a new OEM controller as possible.

So in regards to the controller benchmark test, I stated experimenting with it in the MESS emulator with range maximized out and deadzone turned all the way down so that it displays the full range that I receive on my controller as recognized by direct input. With my N64 Adapter and my N64 controller, these were my benchmark results.

And if you're unaware, according to the benchmark test rom, a new OEM stick should look like this:

So it's clear that I need to turn the range down. Instead of playing the guessing game, or just doing the math to determine the difference, I wanted to go deeper with this. Looking through some other forums, I was able to find this program called dxtweak. It looks like it was originally created for pedal adjustments for racing games, but it works perfectly fine with standard joystick controllers as well.
With this program, I was capable of adjusting the range separately for both positive and negative on the Y and X axis. On top of this, you can also adjust the deadzone for the Y and X axis, which is helpful if you have a deadzone area only on the X or Y axis.

In order to check after each adjustment I made in dxtweak, I had to hard reset the MESS emulator. It didn't update in realtime, so that is what took up most of my time doing this, but it really doesn't take too long to get them right. I was able to get that crazy N64 controller range to adjust to this:

It could be better, but it's still fairly close and I know that I'm not overdoing the range by nearly as much anymore. So after I completed this, I went into the emulator, set the deadzone to 0 and the range to 100 so that the new settings I have made are not being interfered with due to the plugin and I booted up SSB64. Personally, I feel that it's the best configuration I've had. All sorts of tilts, falling uairs, etc. have become a lot easier but I can still dash around perfectly as well. It felt a lot like console.

So yeah, not sure if this kind of thing has been done or not. If it hasn't and my post isn't very clear (with it being almost 4am here), I can probably make a tutorial video or something if there is any interest in this. I'm also open to any input or criticism if any of my knowledge on this is incorrect.

 

[MasterSplinter]

I tried lubing my control stick today and is now permanently stuck in the up/down position even in neutral and I know I put it back together correctly because its the same exact way as my non-greased (and falling apart) controller. Do you know why the board thinks that the control stick is in the up down position and a possible fix?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I tried lubing my control stick today and is now permanently stuck in the up/down position even in neutral and I know I put it back together correctly because its the same exact way as my non-greased (and falling apart) controller. Do you know why the board thinks that the control stick is in the up down position and a possible fix?

No matter what the problem is, the solution is going to involve taking the thumbstick apart and putting it back together. So I would advise you to just do that now and it will probably just work

 

[MasterSplinter]

I took apart my contoller that's glitching and my controller that works and the control stick is set up EXACTLY the same way. The only difference between them is that one has lube in the white gear-box and the other one doesn't. Any help from this point? I can post pictures in a sec

The one in the first post is the one that works and the one in the last post is the one that I cleaned, oiled, and no longer works.

 

[MasterSplinter]

 

[MasterSplinter]

 

[Tom Bombadil]

@ MasterSplinter If I were you I would remove the dark grey part from the light grey part completely and make sure the black gears on the sides are lined up properly. Hard to know without being there though