N-air NEGATHREAD: Nair is too good (new combos!)

[Supermodel From Paris]

Okay

In Yoshi, Diddy, and a few other character specifics you have this:
60-65%
Near edge: Nair1/Nair3, down-b spike?

So if you weren't near the edge is this a guaranteed down b kick instead? That move has good knockback, I was thinking if there was no chance of punishment you could use it when you were close to the end but not close enough to spike, it could set up a nice edgeguarding situation on Diddy who is somewhat susceptible to it.

I'm pretty sure it works on YOshi, Diddy i'm not quite positive about. I need to test more.

 

[Hence]

I've memorized most of the useful N-Air combos just in case I manage to land one in tournament. I'm teaming with a Yoshi main (He's good, no worries.) so I'll confirm N1/N3 > F-Smash today.

 

[Nefarious B]

So no marth and snake, is that because of their 1 frame I-can't-get-comboed-son moves? It'd still be nice to know since most won't be fast enough to react before they're full on in the ****.

Sorry if you just haven't gotten to it yet. One of the best players in my area mains marth with a very good snake second, so I've been trying to find ways to beat him.

 

[noradseven]

So no marth and snake, is that because of their 1 frame I-can't-get-comboed-son moves? It'd still be nice to know since most won't be fast enough to react before they're full on in the ****.

Sorry if you just haven't gotten to it yet. One of the best players in my area mains marth with a very good snake second, so I've been trying to find ways to beat him.

I have problems against snake too my main problem is between his dash attack and his tilts I find him difficult to pressure/punish, and n-air does do wonders on him, marth is trickier though, I bet sfp just hasn't gotten to them yet.

 

[Nefarious B]

Ya my brother picked up Snake just as a joke against my ZSS and between his reckless dashing and ftilts he was making life tough, even if he hardly used nades, didn't know how to morter slide, and was pretty bad at landing early utilt kills.

It seems like a big hole in ZSS's game is behind her on the ground, between his dash attacks getting on my other side and just his bad habit of roling I'm constantly getting punished while trying to turn around to punish him.

But back to nair, atleast both marth and snake are pretty tall so it shouldn't be as hard to land on them.

 

[noradseven]

Ya my brother picked up Snake just as a joke against my ZSS and between his reckless dashing and ftilts he was making life tough, even if he hardly used nades, didn't know how to morter slide, and was pretty bad at landing early utilt kills.

It seems like a big hole in ZSS's game is behind her on the ground, between his dash attacks getting on my other side and just his bad habit of roling I'm constantly getting punished while trying to turn around to punish him.

But back to nair, atleast both marth and snake are pretty tall so it shouldn't be as hard to land on them.

yeah my prob with snake stems from his capcom style hit boxes, I just need some practice against him, but most the people I play with only use 1, maybe 2 characters at best

 

[Shadow Tactics]

...

Finally a thread about nair has been made @_@. Good job SFP :].

 

[Shadow Tactics]

Ya my brother picked up Snake just as a joke against my ZSS and between his reckless dashing and ftilts he was making life tough, even if he hardly used nades, didn't know how to morter slide, and was pretty bad at landing early utilt kills.

It seems like a big hole in ZSS's game is behind her on the ground, between his dash attacks getting on my other side and just his bad habit of roling I'm constantly getting punished while trying to turn around to punish him.

But back to nair, atleast both marth and snake are pretty tall so it shouldn't be as hard to land on them.

If you shield first hit of ftilt I think you can interrupt it with jabs. if you're having problems punishing people behind you try pivot ftilt, it's fast and has good range. It can trip too, which can give you a free grab/dash attack/dtilt/dsmash etc depending on your spacing.

 

[Hence]

If you shield first hit of ftilt I think you can interrupt it with jabs.

Think again, Snake's F-Tilt has much higher priority than ZSS' jab.
Shieldstun, etc.

 

[FadedImage]

Think again, Snake's F-Tilt has much higher priority than ZSS' jab.
Shieldstun, etc.

and it wouldn't matter anyways because he would shield the third hit of your jab and f-tilt you over again... |:

 

[noradseven]

If you shield first hit of ftilt I think you can interrupt it with jabs. if you're having problems punishing people behind you try pivot ftilt, it's fast and has good range. It can trip too, which can give you a free grab/dash attack/dtilt/dsmash etc depending on your spacing.

I forget does snakes f-tilt whiff on a crouching ZSS or is that just his jab, which I know the first hit does whiff.

 

[ph00tbag]

I forget does snakes f-tilt whiff on a crouching ZSS or is that just his jab, which I know the first hit does whiff.

I doubt it. He uses his knee, and knowing how much invisible flab there is on his legs in ftilt, I can only imagine it carries over to his ftilt.

 

[noradseven]

I doubt it. He uses his knee, and knowing how much invisible flab there is on his legs in ftilt, I can only imagine it carries over to his ftilt.

Yeah any time I see that move in any fighting game it always has twice the range is should and is almost spam able.

Its like a law just like how 623 is always an anti air, and 421 is always some kinda of retreat or very defensive attack. Or for brawl how up B always helps you recover, and down B is often a more defensive/counter attack or move.

And how double characters always have infinite's IC

 

[Shadow Tactics]

Think again, Snake's F-Tilt has much higher priority than ZSS' jab.
Shieldstun, etc.

I meant powershield, I should've been more specific. It's one of the easier moves to powershield too. If you do so, you can interrupt it with your jabs aslong as your spacing is correct.

I should've been more specific about when to end the jab too. Faded, yeah the 3rd hit can be shielded, that's why it's usually best to do 1-2 jabs then run away- pivot side B (or something along those lines).

 

[noradseven]

I meant powershield, I should've been more specific. It's one of the easier moves to powershield too. If you do so, you can interrupt it with your jabs aslong as your spacing is correct.

I should've been more specific about when to end the jab too. Faded, yeah the 3rd hit can be shielded, that's why it's usually best to do 1-2 jabs then run away- pivot side B (or something along those lines).

You can always one two, delay the third jab to stop power shielding but isn't it still like -2 frame advantage on block I mean at least its better than the -5 or -6 it is on power shield but still.

 

[ph00tbag]

By the way, there's a fourth weird thing about nair: It has special priority. That means it clashes with everything. Tilts, smashes, aerials, specials... You name it, it clashes with nair.

 

[Nefarious B]

So knowing that you could intentionally try to clank against someone's aerial and be ready to follow up with a faster move like uair as soon as possible, since the opponent wont be as fast to react. Interesting, though proly difficult timing.

 

[ph00tbag]

So knowing that you could intentionally try to clank against someone's aerial and be ready to follow up with a faster move like uair as soon as possible, since the opponent wont be as fast to react. Interesting, though proly difficult timing.

Something like that. I already use nair a lot to bust through Pikachu's tjolt because of its special priority. It has such good priority that it will not only cancel out tjolt, but go right through it and hit Pikachu.

 

[Nefarious B]

I still am having an absurdly hard time landing nair3, too hard to make it worth using at this point. Does anyone have any good video examples of using this moves and or the combos? It would be a good resource.

 

[noradseven]

So knowing that you could intentionally try to clank against someone's aerial and be ready to follow up with a faster move like uair as soon as possible, since the opponent wont be as fast to react. Interesting, though proly difficult timing.

Yeah that is what I use it for more of a counter hit zomg check out my sex kick level priority.

I use first hit of over B against pika shocks,

 

[FK1]

Nair 2 Stage spike anyone?... I think Nair 2...The one on the back. Has this been covered yet? It seems to always work for me. When the opponent's recovering low, I run off the stage and let them go past me and Nair...the Back part sends them diagonally into the stage--assuming no godly DI'ing. Usually catches people by surprise. Do I get a treat?...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Nair 2 Stage spike anyone?... I think Nair 2...The one on the back. Has this been covered yet? It seems to always work for me. When the opponent's recovering low, I run off the stage and let them go past me and Nair...the Back part sends them diagonally into the stage--assuming no godly DI'ing. Usually catches people by surprise. Do I get a treat?...

Wow good **** haha

 

[Nefarious B]

Why not just bair o.O

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Why not just bair o.O

killjoy

 

[Nefarious B]

Heheh i pulled a /hence

 

[ph00tbag]

Nair 2 Stage spike anyone?... I think Nair 2...The one on the back. Has this been covered yet? It seems to always work for me. When the opponent's recovering low, I run off the stage and let them go past me and Nair...the Back part sends them diagonally into the stage--assuming no godly DI'ing. Usually catches people by surprise. Do I get a treat?...

Not very safe. Nair has really late shadow frames, so if you do it off the stage, you'll fall a long way before you can start to jump back up. Bair's a better choice over all for stage spikes.

 

[FK1]

Not very safe. Nair has really late shadow frames, so if you do it off the stage, you'll fall a long way before you can start to jump back up. Bair's a better choice over all for stage spikes.

No...You use it right when you leave the stage...by the time it gets to the Nair-2 part, you're in the right position. If you miss, it's nothing an up-B boosted jump or wall jump/flip jump can't fix. I'm not messing with you. Promise. Back Air doesn't last as long as Nair it seems...and Range/awkward angling...Also, doesn't Nair have this supposed special priority--I would assume it would Clank with recovery moves if it doesn't spike...but that is after all an assumption that I haven't tested. So about that treat?...

EDIT: Don't fast fall. Duh. -_-

 

[ph00tbag]

It's not whether you fast fall. If your opponent doesn't get hit, they have the time get in position for an edgeguard of any sort. Using a bair, you can be down and up without much delay. Not to mention, bair is more powerful and has better range, and you can actually fast fall it, making it overall faster. Nair comes out slower, can't be fast falled, has more wind down (thus is more punishable), doesn't have as good range, and is less powerful. It is in everyway not as good as bair in this situation. Remind me again why you would use it?

 

[noradseven]

It's not whether you fast fall. If your opponent doesn't get hit, they have the time get in position for an edgeguard of any sort. Using a bair, you can be down and up without much delay. Not to mention, bair is more powerful and has better range, and you can actually fast fall it, making it overall faster. Nair comes out slower, can't be fast falled, has more wind down (thus is more punishable), doesn't have as good range, and is less powerful. It is in everyway not as good as bair in this situation. Remind me again why you would use it?

n-air can totally be fastfalled, and if your using it off the edge, you use it to beat a characters recovery because of its dumb priority and range, and if you leave yourself a jump for a boost wire its p. safe. However its p. situational and normally I stick to my guns of f-air, b-air, and over B, for edge hogging.

 

[FK1]

Because it's awessssome. And it's won me matches and hit--for me--many more times than an off and under stage back air has. I'm comfortable with it. Treat?

 

[noradseven]

Because it's awessssome. And it's won me matches and hit--for me--many more times than an off and under stage back air has. I'm comfortable with it. Treat?

its one of the 6 moves I use in edge hoggary, but I still find f-air, b-air, and over B to trump even d-smash and neutral air, and down B(lol dedede, bowser,DK)

 

[ph00tbag]

Well, you guys can use it if you want. Bair makes a lot more sense in every way I look at it.

 

[sasook]

I have to agree with ph00t, nair DOES have some sort of lag time in which you literally can't do anything - jump, attack, airdodge, etc. It's like reverse IASA frames or something. It's harmed me more in the past than helped offstage. Plus, bair is more powerful as ph00t said, so it is harder for the opponent to recover because of a stronger knockback from the move.

 

[noradseven]

I have to agree with ph00t, nair DOES have some sort of lag time in which you literally can't do anything - jump, attack, airdodge, etc. It's like reverse IASA frames or something. It's harmed me more in the past than helped offstage. Plus, bair is more powerful as ph00t said, so it is harder for the opponent to recover because of a stronger knockback from the move.

Just like I said use it only on guaranteed hits, such as if they oppenent doesn't get hit they are dead anyways, its only usable in a few matchups, but I still prefer the others.

 

[kuenzel]

Any vids showing this wacky new Nair3? This is relevant to my interests.

 

[Nefarious B]

Any vids showing this wacky new Nair3? This is relevant to my interests.

Seconded, and how on earth does anyone hit with this on a real opponent? With practice I've gotten nair1 down decently enough, but nair3 is just hard.

 

[ph00tbag]

Nair3 will hit most often when you aren't trying to hit with it. It's a weird one. I don't think the benefits of it are great enough to counteract the difficulty of hitting with it in a practical situation.

Nair1 is godly, though, if you can space with it right.

And if your opponent doesn't powershield everything, including your Jab1.