My views on what the Brawl roster should be.

[freeman123]

Luke Groundwalker

Originally Posted by thejbr12
Got any opinion on Sonic or Little Mac, Groundwalker?

Yes.

What, are you keeping us in suspense?

Luke Groundwalker
So how in the world does he happen to play any important role just because of a rank system that was completely based on the known 4th gen Pokemon at the time?

The fact that they used his name for the highest rank shows that they view him as of some significance. Which I already said once, by the way.

Luke Groundwalker
That's not my point. In Red/Blue, you could only get a few Snorlax Pokemon, and had to use a special item to wake him up. In Gold/Silver, you had to use another item to get a Sudowoodo to fight you and unblock the path. Both of these Pokemon share a similar role of being rare but are just like any other Pokemon. In Diamond/Pearl, you can only obtain Lucario if you get a Riolu in an egg. Now, he does differ from Snorlax in Sudowoodo in terms of how you get him, but he basically plays the same role: a rare but pretty average Pokemon. That's all he is, deal with it and shut the f-ck up.

I know what you said. I have a very good memory. The problem wasn't that I didn't understand your point, it's that I did and it was bad.

Sudowoodo isn't anywhere near as popular as Lucario. Maybe you could argue that Snorlax is, but Snorlax is much more suitable as a pokeball character. Lucario is likely for a combination of reasons. Just because other Pokemon have one thing in common with Lucario doesn't mean that Lucario can't be any more likely than them.

That's like me saying that I believe Rudy Giuliani would be a good president, and then you arguing that by saying "Rudy Giuliani has a dog. OJ Simpson also has a dog, so Rudy Giuliani wouldn't be any better of a president than OJ Simpson."

I'm not even a big Lucario supporter. I've said several times that I'd rather have Darkrai or someone, but that doesn't change the fact that Lucario is probably the most likely. The biggest thing Lucario probably has going for him is that more people seem to want him than any other Pokemon, and Sakurai seems to pay attention to what people want.

Luke Groundwalker
Like I explained, Takamaru and Skapon are NOT random retro characters.

Yes they are.

Luke Groundwalker
They play a big role in Nintendo's history compared to all of those other characters you listed

So you honestly believe that more people remember Sakupon and Takamaru than Duck Hunt and Donkey Kong Jr.? Or than pretty much anybody else I said? Am I in the Twilight Zone?

Luke Groundwalker
They play a vital role and were very popular at the time and still are today as characters.

Not only are they random retro character, but they are random retro characters that were never released outside of Japan. That probably makes them less likely then the other characters I said.

Luke Groundwalker
And besides, characters from a series with one game >>>>> random characters that appear in a recurring game series with very little importance.

I don't know what you're talking about, because pretty much everybody I said was the main character in their game. Which ones had "little importance"?

Yukiwarashi
This is the best character list I've seen, I can't wait until it's finished.

Why am I the only one who realises that every character list on here is pretty much exactly alike, give or take a few characters? Except for Wise Guy's, because he throws in random nobodies like Bonk.

 

[Caael]

I never hated Ridley, I ALWAYS supported him. Just because that one idiot listed me as a Ridley hater, even though after stating hundreds of times I supported Ridley and he was the top character I want in, he still won't get it through his head that I WANT Ridley in Brawl as fully playable.

Oh, and I did some of my wanted newcomers, I have a lot more, but I gotta go somewhere soon and figured just post what I got done so far.

That would be Gypsy...

Your list is a bit lacking at the moment, but you've already said you need to continue it. I like your ideas so far, the only one I majorly disagree with is Bowser Jr. I do think he could be original, but he's just pointless. Shadow Mario could have been everybody, and they spoiled it by making it Bowser Jr.

Oh, and you should include Kraid for a boss.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

What, are you keeping us in suspense?

I believe so.

The fact that they used his name for the highest rank shows that they view him as of some significance. Which I already said once, by the way.

Well, yeah, at the time, of course he was going to be the highest amongst the known 4th gen Pokemon. He is the rare Pokemon of the actual game like Snorlax and Sudowoodo was, of course he's going to get some merit. But I'm sure that if we known other Pokemon that were more important in the 4th gen at the time, like, say, Palkia and Dialga, they'd definitely top right above Lucario as ranks in the game.

Sudowoodo isn't anywhere near as popular as Lucario. Maybe you could argue that Snorlax is, but Snorlax is much more suitable as a pokeball character. Lucario is likely for a combination of reasons. Just because other Pokemon have one thing in common with Lucario doesn't mean that Lucario can't be any more likely than them.

Most Pokemon have potential to be fighting characters, Lucario is no different other than some merits outside of the game. Yes, he's popular, just as much as most other Pokemon are, but that doesn't mean he automatically deserves a spot.

I'm not even a big Lucario supporter. I've said several times that I'd rather have Darkrai or someone, but that doesn't change the fact that Lucario is probably the most likely. The biggest thing Lucario probably has going for him is that more people seem to want him than any other Pokemon, and Sakurai seems to pay attention to what people want.

I highly doubt Sakurai pays attention to his fans as much as people think he does.

Yes they are.

No they aren't, as I said, they hold a lot more importance as a retro character and I've explained that. Apparently you are a sh-t reader or are completely idiotic.

So you honestly believe that more people remember Sakupon and Takamaru than Duck Hunt and Donkey Kong Jr.? Or than pretty much anybody else I said? Am I in the Twilight Zone?

In Japan, yes, Skapon and Takamaru are extremely and highly popular, even though they had one game, compared to any of those characters. Hell, look at the poll and you'll literally see Takamaru AND Skapon being two of the most requested characters on there above many others.

Not only are they random retro character, but they are random retro characters that were never released outside of Japan. That probably makes them less likely then the other characters I said.

Marth says hello, since he was apparently a "random retro character" by your definition of what it is.

I don't know what you're talking about, because pretty much everybody I said was the main character in their game. Which ones had "little importance"?

Yeah, of course they had importance in their own game (sans-Lucario, he only had a bit of merit). But let's look at the whole series. Putting all the important characters from every FE game you would get a LOT of characters, probably around 20 or 30, maybe. Choosing a random one like Hector, from a FE GBA game that wasn't very popular in Japan at all, would be luidcrous compared to more worthy and personality-filled characters. F.E. Sigurd.

Oh, and you should include Kraid for a boss.

I would if I could find at least a good or mediocre quality full-body (yes, head to toe, nothing cut) picture/sprite/whatever of him.

 

[Enigma14]

Good Job Luke.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

To that one guy:

The fact that you brought up that Taka and Sukapon are random characters lead me to believe that your entire arguement is wrong and baseless...

 

[Black/Light]

That's all he is, deal with it and shut the f-ck up.

Im sorry by that line owns.

Did anyone ever think to research the times between Lucario being in a movie and when Pokemon MD came out? They came out in the same year in Japan (2005) making the only pokemon known of in the 4th gen Munch/ Mime Jr/ Weavle (sp)/ Bonsly (sp) and Lucario.

Maybe, just maybe, they used him to show off the 4th gen's pokemon known at the time like they did all the others in the game?

I mean, by the same logic manaphy should get in. It had the same role in Pokemon Rangers game as it did in it's movie like Lucario to PMD. You even had to do a whole mission to save the manaphy egg, go to pokemon.net/com, get the code to transfer him and transfer him from that game to DP in-order to get it.
(but I guess Lucario is different because a hand full of online smash fans want him in brawl...)

On topic of the list. . . I think it's coo but I don't think Geno will make it. I just can't see both S-E and nintendo wanting to use up a 3rd party spot with Geno to be the rep of S-E in brawl. I think he will be a AT and we will get some other S-E rep as a character.

Other than that I like your list a nice bit ( I don't think Sheik is coming back thou).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Im sorry by that line owns.

Did anyone ever think to research the times between Lucario being in a movie and when Pokemon MD came out? They came out in the same year in Japan (2005) making the only pokemon known of in the 4th gen Munch/ Mime Jr/ Weavle (sp)/ Bonsly (sp) and Lucario.

Maybe, just maybe, they used him to show off the 4th gen's pokemon known at the time like they did all the others in the game?

I mean, by the same logic manaphy should get in. It had the same role in Pokemon Rangers game as it did in it's movie like Lucario to PMD. You even had to do a whole mission to save the manaphy egg, go to pokemon.net/com, get the code to transfer him and transfer him from that game to DP in-order to get it.
(but I guess Lucario is different because a hand full of online smash fans want him in brawl...)

On topic of the list. . . I think it's coo but I don't think Geno will make it. I just can't see both S-E and nintendo wanting to use up a 3rd party spot with Geno to be the rep of S-E in brawl. I think he will be a AT and we will get some other S-E rep as a character.

Other than that I like your list a nice bit ( I don't think Sheik is coming back thou).

Your "point" on Geno is unfounded considering they wouldn't count him as a guest character because he's a Mario character

 

[Black/Light]

Your "point" on Geno is unfounded considering they wouldn't count him as a guest character because he's a Mario character

. . . But he is owned by a 3rd party making him a 3rd party character. No matter how you twist it they would still need to ask S-E for him just like anyother character and he would still be a "3rd party character".

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

. . . But he is owned by a 3rd party making him a 3rd party character. No matter how you twist it they would still need to ask S-E for him just like anyother character and he would still be a "3rd party character".

Sakurai never said anything about 3rd parties...He said guest characters. That's something people started out of assumption

 

[Black/Light]

Sakurai never said anything about 3rd parties...He said guest characters. That's something people started out of assumption

"#31-40: Non-Nintendo characters added into the game MUST have appeared on a Nintendo platform. They cannot be from a manga/anime. The tentative number of non-Nintendo characters to be added after Snake is 1-2, but this can still change."

Non-nintendo meaning not owned by the big N. . .

And here he refers to 3rd party characters as "3rd party characters".
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=64601&page=2

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

"#31-40: Non-Nintendo characters added into the game MUST have appeared on a Nintendo platform. They cannot be from a manga/anime. The tentative number of non-Nintendo characters to be added after Snake is 1-2, but this can still change."

Non-nintendo meaning not owned by the big N. . .

And here he refers to 3rd party characters as "3rd party characters".
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=64601&page=2

He also said he considers Geno a Nintendo character

 

[Black/Light]

He also said he considers Geno a Nintendo character

Doesn't change the fact that it's a 3rd party character owned by S-E.

Don't know why your keeping this up. . .

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Doesn't change the fact that it's a 3rd party character owned by S-E.

Don't know why your keeping this up. . .

Sakurai is making the game...He considers Geno a nintendo character. Geno in Brawl would not count toward the other 3rd party/Guest characters. Your points are just used by Geno haters that don't want him in Brawl

 

[Black/Light]

Sakurai is making the game...He considers Geno a nintendo character. Geno in Brawl would not count toward the other 3rd party/Guest characters. Your points are just used by Geno haters that don't want him in Brawl

(When did this happen?)
If a scientist said the moon is pink and green to him than thats ok. . . but it doesn't change the fact that it's not pink and green.

Sakurai still has to ask S-E if he can use him and it's still a 3rd party character owned by S-E.

And I may not have the slightest idlea as to WHY people want the thing soo bad and I can assure you that I don't support it but by no means am I a "Geno hater" if thats what your trying to say.

I simply can't see why they would use one of their 3rd party character slots for Geno. . .

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

(When did this happen?)
If a scientist said the moon is pink and green to him than thats ok. . . but it doesn't change the fact that it's not pink and green.

Sakurai still has to ask S-E if he can use him and it's still a 3rd party character owned by S-E.

And I may not have the slightest idlea as to WHY people want the thing soo bad and I can assure you that I don't support it but by no means am I a "Geno hater" if thats what your trying to say.

I simply can't see why they would use one of their 3rd party character slots for Geno. . .

YOu don't get it...Sakurai is making the game...Sakurai thinks Geno is a nintendo character. He still has to ask Square for the character but he won't include him as a guest character. He's the maker of the game, he can do that if he really wants

 

[Black/Light]

YOu don't get it...Sakurai is making the game...Sakurai thinks Geno is a nintendo character. He still has to ask Square for the character but he won't include him as a guest character. He's the maker of the game, he can do that if he really wants

1, When did he say that Geno is owned by Nintendo?(as in, a Nintendo character)

2, Geno would still be a 3rd party character either way you flip it. He can't just say that it's owned by nintendo and not call it "3rd party-owned-by-S/E" if it's in the game. Thats actually illegal and he would have to show that Geno aint owned by Nintendo if he where to be in the game in any shape/way or form.

And as my link said, he refers to 3rd party characters as "3rd party characters" and not as "guest characters from series not owned by Nintendo". IDK where all this "guest" character stuff is coming from. . .

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

1, When did he say that Geno is owned by Nintendo?(as in, a Nintendo character)

2, Geno would still be a 3rd party character either way you flip it. He can't just say that it's owned by nintendo and not call it "3rd party-owned-by-S/E" if it's in the game. Thats actually illegal and he would have to show that Geno aint owned by Nintendo if he where to be in the game in any shape/way or form.

And as my link said, he refers to 3rd party characters as "3rd party characters" and not as "guest characters from series not owned by Nintendo". IDK where all this "guest" character stuff is coming from. . .

"Guest character" came from Sakurai himself. I never said he was owned by Nintendo, I said he was a nintendo character...as in he exists in the same universe as like Mario and stuff. He only exists in the Mario universe, in fact and has only appeared in Mario games

 

[Black/Light]

"Guest character" came from Sakurai himself. I never said he was owned by Nintendo, I said he was a nintendo character...as in he exists in the same universe as like Mario and stuff. He only exists in the Mario universe, in fact and has only appeared in Mario games

Show me where he says "guest characters of series not owned by Nintendo". I already showed you a interview where he calls 3rd party characters "3rd party characters" as in "any character owned by a 3rd party".

And he isn't a "Nintendo character". Geno is a "Mario character" made by and owned by S-E which makes him a S-E 3rd party character.

And again, idk why your keeping up with this.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

When did Sakurai call Geno a Nintendo character, though? I don't recall reading that myself. If Nintendo needed Square's permission to make Geno cameo in that Mario RPG for GBA/DS, then that wouldn't make him a Nintendo character, right?

Oh, and I also have to agree with Black/Light on the Lucario thing. To me, his chances are pretty questionable. When was Sakurai's poll taken? Lucario had to have been known around that time, right? Yet out of all of the Pokemon revealed, Gardevoir was the only one to be picked. Very strange for Lucario, such a popular Pokemon to not even be mentioned or acknowledged by Sakurai.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Show me where he says "guest characters of series not owned by Nintendo". I already showed you a interview where he calls 3rd party characters "3rd party characters" as in "any character owned by a 3rd party".

And he isn't a "Nintendo character". Geno is a "Mario character" made by and owned by S-E which makes him a S-E 3rd party character.

And again, idk why your keeping up with this.

I don't know why YOU keep this up when you.

Read Samurai Panda's translation...He says it on there.

The Mario Universe is in the Nintendo universe. Now your just be picky.

 

[Black/Light]

I don't know why YOU keep this up when you.

Read Samurai Panda's translation...He says it on there.

The Mario Universe is in the Nintendo universe. Now your just be picky.

No, YOU show ME where he said that. Im not the one saying he said "guest characters of series not owned by nintendo" so I have no need to prove that. I already gave you a link to the interview where he simply refers to 3rd party characters as 3rd party character. Here, I will quote it. . .

There are probably possibilities for other third-party characters as well, and it may be that even now there are corporate discussions going on at a high level about what characters to include, but maybe we'll talk to you about that a little bit later.

Right now Snake is the only third-party character that has been confirmed for Super Smash Bros., but I think because we've announced Snake is in Super Smash Bros. that might open up opportunities for other third-party characters to also be included.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=64601&page=2

And no, Im not "being picky". Geno isn't owned by nintendo by any means there for he aint a "Nintendo character". BUT he was made for a Mario game by S-E there for he is a Mario character owned and made by S-E.

And Im wondering why you are keeping up with these when you keep saying that Sakurai made some clear difference between 3rd party characters from nintendo games and 3rd party characters from non-nintendo owned series as if Im just going to take your word for it. . .

When did Sakurai call Geno a Nintendo character, though? I don't recall reading that myself. If Nintendo needed Square's permission to make Geno cameo in that Mario RPG for GBA/DS, then that wouldn't make him a Nintendo character, right?

Oh, and I also have to agree with Black/Light on the Lucario thing. To me, his chances are pretty questionable. When was Sakurai's poll taken? Lucario had to have been known around that time, right? Yet out of all of the Pokemon revealed, Gardevoir was the only one to be picked. Very strange for Lucario, such a popular Pokemon to not even be mentioned or acknowledged by Sakurai.

Thanks.
Sakurai's poll was last summer in 06 and Lucario was known about in Japan sence 05.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Samurai Panda's translation is on this site and I don't care enough about YOUR opinion on the subject of Geno to show you any links. He's still has a huge chance of getting in either way

 

[Black/Light]

Samurai Panda's translation is on this site and I don't care enough about YOUR opinion on the subject of Geno to show you any links. He's still has a huge chance of getting in either way

Well I guess you don't care enuff about this "debate" to carry on with it or even remotely proove your side of the debate with anything other than "take my word for it" now do you?
(Funny, the last big Geno debate I saw between 2 people ended in someone refusing to show any proof that Sakurai called Geno a nintendo character or that Sakurai "doesn't count" Geno as a 3rd party character. . . )

And sure, he has a high chance of getting in. . . as a AT camoe from S-E.
As a S-E character rep. . . not soo much imo.

 

[Hong]

This is the only list I can agree with, sans Sukapon and Bowser Jr. Not saying that out of personal preference, just the reasoning presented so far. At least Sukapon is on the ropes and not out of the rink, though.

A logical number and good reasoning for each character. I like it.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Just a small update with three characters: Dixie Kong, Claus, and Wolf.

Note, guys, this list will most definitely change overtime, and I plan to at least have around maybe 18 newcomer ideas in the final version of it.

 

[Florida]

I just love threads that are organized!
So far, I agree with your entire list, except for one newcomer: Dixie.

Her chances lied with Diddy Kong-- the possibility of being a duo. But since that's passed, I don't see her happening. She's just too similar to Diddy. Now, King K. Rool would make a much better third representative for the Donkey Kong franchise, if you ask me.

Well, really, it comes down to if you prefer a villain, or a female character. Both types are lacking, so either will do, but Brawl seems to be taking a lean more toward the villain-type characters.

Continue the awesome work! I'll get some more comments to you, with future updates.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Just on a note, I appreciate all the comments on this. Even though it may sound like the generic character list, I honestly put a lot of thought into who I truly think should be in Brawl's roster. It isn't just a personal preference thing (well, it is somewhat, but it's MY character list, what can you expect?), this is me observing the character's worth and potential to being in Brawl overall.

Oh, and four characters added, and I might take off some later (thinking Dixie Kong). Characters are Bomberman, Mach Rider, Ray 01 (although it applies to any Ray character), and Captain Olimar.

 

[notftomearth7]

Comeback list: Agree with you on everyone cept Marth, Ike has replaced him.
Newcomer List: I'm iffy on Lucas and impressed with Takamaru no problems here

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Comeback list: Agree with you on everyone cept Marth, Ike has replaced him.

In all honesty, do you really think that? Ike is shown to be a very heavy character that represents the FE series currently, kinda like what Roy did. It seems like he's basically Roy done right, even has quite a backstory to back him up. Marth is the first FE lord, and has a very huge place in the series, although I can imagine Sakurai replacing him for Sigurd and having Marth's moveset (with some changes), but I'm not too sure, we'll just have to see.

Oh, and I added a new Bowser Jr. render, the one from Super Mario Galaxy.

 

[thejbr12]

I agree, Ike isn't a replacement for Marth because he doesn't have Marth's moveset. Either Marth is back, someone else is replacing Marth (Sigurd?), or they cut him completely. Ike has not "replaced" anyone because he is not a clone of anyone.

 

[2007]

No Doc? no Roy?

what kind of a person are you?

I will give you brownie points for mentioning Ridley and Krystal. (and Wolf I s'pose)

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

I could get behind this, but I think Pokemon will have five on the roster. Judging by your preferences, I'd recommend Meowth. Meowth is important to Pokemon in that his position on the show has given him secondary mascot status. About as many people know Meowth as know Squirtle, Charizard, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. Sure, it's not the most important in the games, but no Pokemon really is.
I'd kick off Dixie, but I totally agree with the rest. Nary a stupid suggestion on the list (besides Dixie).

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

No Doc? no Roy?

what kind of a person are you?

Doc can be an alt. and Roy just needs to be dumped, he'll probably be replaced by Ike as much as Ness will be replaced by Lucas, which isn't a problem. Both characters are better versions of the past ones overall, in all honesty.

As for Meowth? I actually thought about him, but I'm not sure. It isn't impossible, but I'll think about it.

 

[2007]

Ike has blue hair, Roy has red. Marth has blue. by all frickin' means that means he should replace Marth. (I have heard people mistake him for "a more manly Marth")
I s'pose at the very least if Doc was an alt for Mario that they could at least make him availible in all the colors he had in Melee (ie: for doubles)
Then again, Doc was from his own series, whilst characters such as Pichu, Young Link, and (sadly enough) even Roy were from the same franchise as their alts.

They should just give Roy all Marth's moves but add fire.

who woudl know!?! </jk>

 

[Zevox]

No Doc? no Roy?

what kind of a person are you?

The logical kind. Those are two of the three most likely to leave characters. Doc is utterly redundant, being just Mario in a different outfit, and could just as easily be an alt costume, like Daisy and Jumpman were. Roy was in Melee solely as an add, a role he can no longer play, and is a poor choice for a Fire Emblem rep due to being unimportant and unpopular as FE characters go.

Ike has blue hair, Roy has red. Marth has blue. by all frickin' means that means he should replace Marth. (I have heard people mistake him for "a more manly Marth")

Right, because of course its their physical appearance, especially their hair color, that determines a character's worthiness to be in an SSB game.

Seriously, Marth has every reason to stay and none to go. He was the first Lord of the FE saga, the one that started it all. He is still one of the three most popular FE Lords to this day (11 years after his most recent game and 17 after his first). He was the star of the FE animated series, which helped his popularity and made him an FE icon. Those are the reasons he was in Melee over the other Lords of the time, and between those and being a veteran, hes a must-have for Brawl so long as the Fire Emblem series is in it (which of course it is). Replacing him with Ike would be like replacing Pikachu with a fourth-generation Pokèmon.

Zevox

 

[_Slick_]

...Whre the ****s Lucario?

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

...Whre the ****s Lucario?

He won't be in, ever.

Even though Lucario is a great character, and I used to want him, but unlike most lists I put aside my selfish wants for characters like him and actually put thought into every character, and I just honestly think Lucario will be in as non-playable.

 

[thejbr12]

Really, there's so many pokemon that COULD get in that it's a crapshoot trying to make a list that has the right ones. Only two have been announced so far (PT and Pikachu) and we should expect at least 2 more (probably 3). Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are very likely, with Pichu on the same list as Doc and Roy. So that means there will *likely* be one more, maybe two. Meowth? Lucario? Dragonite? Eevee? It seems awfully hard to guess (and I believe that a majority of the characters on Groundwalker's list have a much higher likelihood of making it in than any one pokemon, the reason being that a character like Ridley is a MAJOR badguy in a major franchise, and any one pokemon (other than pikachu) is not really that close in terms of importance and popularity).

 

[psyniac_123]

Some good points LGW.

------------
DOWN W/ GENO

SHEIK IS A GUY. PLAY LOZ: OOT.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Some good points LGW.

------------
DOWN W/ GENO

SHEIK IS A GUY. PLAY LOZ: OOT.

Someone that wants Waluigi definetly doesn't have the right to diss Geno