My happiness hypothesis

[1048576]

It seems like as a society, people are no happier than they were thousands of years ago. Our lives are obviously more comfortable, but this isn't reflected in our dispositions. Because of this, I feel like the only reasonable cause of happiness is being better off than your neighbour. If you and your neighbor are on equal footing, then you are content. If you are worse off than the people around you, then you are miserable. I feel like I would be happier if everyone was a slave to another world than if we were all set free and everyone else was given $10. Does anyone else share this view?

If this is true, it would explain the high suicide rates in the US. Capitalism makes people miserable, except for a select few.

 

[Azua]

You are only as happy as you let yourself be.

 

[Crimson King]

It seems like as a society, people are no happier than they were thousands of years ago. Our lives are obviously more comfortable, but this isn't reflected in our dispositions. Because of this, I feel like the only reasonable cause of happiness is being better off than your neighbour. If you and your neighbor are on equal footing, then you are content. If you are worse off than the people around you, then you are miserable. I feel like I would be happier if everyone was a slave to another world than if we were all set free and everyone else was given $10. Does anyone else share this view?

This view point is so heavily flawed. First off, if everyone is equal, then it doesn't matter if you live or die in the grand scheme of things because you can be replaced with anyone. And if you are worse off than someone else, of course you will not be happy. That's human nature. Our very nature is to better ourselves through work in order to attain a level of comfort towards the end of our lives. As a slave, you would be forced to work 12 - 15 hours a day, stay in a house with no heat or A/C and given no money whatsoever to buy anything, and given just the bare necessities to live. If you consider that happiness, you are a fool.

If this is true, it would explain the high suicide rates in the US. Capitalism makes people miserable, except for a select few.

Our suicide rate is actually quite low compared to other countries. WHO cited that in 2003, Lithuania and the Russian Federation were around 70% suicide rate for males, versus the US's 20%. Russia and Lithuania still basically function under their pseudo-socialism/communism system in at least economic facets, so your argument is moot.

 

[Jam Stunna]

CK is going to come **** this topic.

Happiness can't be quantified in the way that you're trying to. If it could be, by a measure like, say, standard of living, then yes, people are happier because the standard of living everywhere in the world is substantially higher than it used to be. Even the worst parts of Africa today are better than they were hundreds or thousands of years ago.

The thing is that while societies change, the basic impediments to happiness do not. No culture or advance in technology can help you if you're sad. Only you can do that, as Azua so eloquently put it.

EDIT- TOO LATE!

 

[TigerWoods]

I personally don't agree. I believe the definition of happiness isn't definitive. It is open to interpretation, and should be different for everyone. Anyway, I view myself as "content".



EDIT: Wow, My comment just got completely overshadowed....

EVEN LATER!!!

 

[Bowser King]

Depends on what makes you happy. Some people think $ = happiness =/

-Bowser King

 

[1048576]

This view point is so heavily flawed. First off, if everyone is equal, then it doesn't matter if you live or die in the grand scheme of things because you can be replaced with anyone. And if you are worse off than someone else, of course you will not be happy. That's human nature. Our very nature is to better ourselves through work in order to attain a level of comfort towards the end of our lives. As a slave, you would be forced to work 12 - 15 hours a day, stay in a house with no heat or A/C and given no money whatsoever to buy anything, and given just the bare necessities to live. If you consider that happiness, you are a fool.



Our suicide rate is actually quite low compared to other countries. WHO cited that in 2003, Lithuania and the Russian Federation were around 70% suicide rate for males, versus the US's 20%. Russia and Lithuania still basically function under their pseudo-socialism/communism system in at least economic facets, so your argument is moot.

70% sorry for being skeptical, but wouldn't that ruin their population?

When did I say that everyone was equal? Not everyone is equal. The point is that if you suck, you won't be happy.

Glad we agree.

I disagree with your premise in your third sentence. We work because we want to be better than our neighbor.

I consider it happiness if everyone else is doing it. If we were all born into that same life, we wouldn't know anything different, and we would all be content.

 

[Matt]

You can't teach a Sneetch.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Well, frankly, with a philosophy like that, it's not wonder that you're not happy.

 

[Oracle]

People shouldn't base happiness off of wealth.

 

[Crimson King]

70% sorry for being skeptical, but wouldn't that ruin their population?

When did I say that everyone was equal? Not everyone is equal. The point is that if you suck, you won't be happy.

Glad we agree.

I disagree with your premise in your third sentence. We work because we want to be better than our neighbor.

I consider it happiness if everyone else is doing it. If we were all born into that same life, we wouldn't know anything different, and we would all be content.

So, basically you want to regress to slavery? Have fun with that.

I misquoted, it was 70 for every 10,000 in Lithuania and Russia and 20 for ever 10,000 in the US. Either, way you were way off.

 

[SkylerOcon]

You're as happy as you want to be. Not saying that this is necessarily your case, but as an example, being unhappy over living a normal, middle class life because your not high class and can't afford to fancy your every whim is ridiculous. You should be happy being able to do the things you enjoy, which I'm assuming gaming is one seeing as you're on this forum. You're obviously able to afford that.

When you think like that, it's not a wonder that you're unhappy.

You are only as happy as you let yourself be.

I suggest you change your philosophy to trying to be happy, 1048. Azua is right.

 

[Omis]

1048 is always trying to bring people down to his level of unhappiness.

 

[SuperRacoon]

Actually people are miserable because they don't understand happiness. Happiness can't be bought, it's not something that is readily visible, and anyone can obtain it. I can't really come up with any suitable all encompassing recipe for happiness because, well, people may find happiness in different ways. For me though, I can find happiness in just hanging out with friends cracking jokes. Playing Melee or some other really good multiplayer game with friends. Obsessing over really awesome video games with friends or on a forum. Or hell, even just chatting with coworkers about nothing instead of actually working. In terms of monetary costs, meh, there's the money spent on video games, but the countless afternoons just spent having fun are worth a lot more.

As always cracked.com has the ability to pwn everything with their articles, here's a good one that is related to the topic.
http://www.cracked.com/article_15231_7-reasons-21st-century-making-you-miserable.html

 

[NintendoMan07]

Obsessing over really awesome video games with friends or on a forum.

I personally find this to be a double-edged sword for me, unfortunately.

Anyway, I've noticed that my mood dips down to it's lowest when I start thinking about the abstract. Like this: happiness, socialization, or just life in general. But if I'm just lost in whatever I'm doing at the moment, I don't really have time to... consider my emotional/mental state of being.

So I guess I must be at my happiest when I'm not thinking.

 

[1048576]

Ignorance is bliss

I think everyone assumes that I can't be happy unless I'm at the top of the totem pole, which is absurd.

I'm not trying to make anybody miserable. I'm explaining why I think as a society, we are just as happy as third-world societies and, presumably, ancient societies. You're all like, ~I derive my happiness from videogames~. The implication is that you would be sad if you didn't have them, which is not true, so long as nobody else had videogames either.

 

[Eor]

你 是 不明的. 我 不要游 十 子.

 

[Darkslash]

So wait slavery will make you happy? Only if you are a masochist or sadist maybe...but for the regular minding folk that sure will make them insane or suicidal.

 

[SuperRacoon]

Ignorance is bliss

Actually it is you that has misunderstood everyone else (mostly).

I think everyone assumes that I can't be happy unless I'm at the top of the totem pole, which is absurd.

Granted you were accused of that by a couple of people, (implicitly and explicitly). But only in a couple of posts.

1048 is always trying to bring people down to his level of unhappiness.

This one is the most explicit, it really is an unfair assumption, but just because two people made an unfair assumption doesn't mean everyone did. Most of the posts here are addressing your theory on happiness, not attacking you directly.

I'm not trying to make anybody miserable. I'm explaining why I think as a society, we are just as happy as third-world societies and, presumably, ancient societies. You're all like, ~I derive my happiness from videogames~. The implication is that you would be sad if you didn't have them, which is not true, so long as nobody else had videogames either.

Bolded words indicate unfair assumptions that you have made about people's post in this thread. I feel particular obligated to reply to this because the video games indicates in particular that you have misunderstood my post in particular.

For me though, I can find happiness in just hanging out with friends cracking jokes. Playing Melee or some other really good multiplayer game with friends. Obsessing over really awesome video games with friends or on a forum. Or hell, even just chatting with coworkers about nothing instead of actually working.

Underlined words indicate the common theme that I was trying to imply with my post. Quite frankly, without people to talk to, the video games portions don't mean ****.

Really, just read this article, it'll be worth your time.
http://www.cracked.com/article_15231_7-reasons-21st-century-making-you-miserable.html

 

[tmw_redcell]

I'm not sure why all this arguing is going on, it's social comparison theory basically. Yeah it's not the entirety of happiness but it's hardly some nutjob uber-cynicism.

 

[1048576]

Slavery would make me content if everyone else was also a slave. If I was the only slave, that would obviously suck. Conversely, if you all got your own jet pack and I only got a hovercraft, I would be miserable.

SuperRacoon: do you believe that societies with a low population density are unhappier?

 

[Eor]

We derive our happiness from within ourselves. This is why people that can have anything they want are not always happy, and explains how those that can barely make by can still be happy too.

Capitalism has existed for hundreds of years, but if it is the result of depression then why would it wait until now to show up? And how are you trying to say that people are unhappier now? Any statistics or reasons for this, or just "it seems to me"?

 

[Mic_128]

Slavery would make me content if everyone else was also a slave.

But that's impossible because there's either a master that owns you, who would have to be happier than you, a mere slave; or if there's no master to serve, then you aren't slaves.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Besides, if your definition of happiness is entirely based on your position relative to society, then you can never be happy. Regardless of capitalism, different people are born with different abilities which allow them to achieve different things. Some slaves would be treated differently than others, so once again you'd be unhappy because someone would have it better (or worse) than you.

It sounds like you just haven't come to terms with the fact that life isn't fair.

 

[Blackadder]

Spoot!

It sounds like you just haven't come to terms with the fact that life isn't fair.

I've been reading 193810whatever's posts for a while now -- a recent one was something about "everyone said it would end okay but it didn't".

I'm going to agree with Jam on that quote.

Thing is, I'm clincally depressed. Yeah, life can suck ****. Hard ****. And I've tried to off my self a few times, right? I get the thought of doing it way too often for comfort.

But I hang around anyway -- life IS worth living. Happiness comes. There are good people in this world. Fairy Floss wouldn't taste so good if I was dead.

I try to always remember that. You've got to make your OWN happiness mostly. You can't let life get to you so much. It probably doesn't even matter anyway (!) -- 50 bucks says we all go the same way when we die anyway. I dunno what I'm trying to say exactly, man. And I'm sure you've gone through some crap. We all have. I've lost two siblings, I have ZERO social skills, I'm failing school, all that. I'm a little jaded! But I try to let these things help me grow, know what I'm sayin'?

And recently things HAVE been improving. I've been talking to people, I've been getting help. I'm starting to do some art again. Things do get better if you take some initative.

... Also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

 

[1048576]

I'm not saying people are unhappier now. I'm saying it's the same even though we live more comfortable lifestyles now.

Also, CK, most of Europe has a lower suicide rate than the US. I just looked it up.

Mic, I guess the hypothetical situation would be if our masters weren't human, or if we needed so much food to stay alive that we had to work all day to obtain it.

Jam: I agree with most of what you said. Some people suck. Some don't. The people who do suck are doomed to be miserable. Great inequality creates great misery. I'm not the one arguing these concepts. It's more like the people arguing against me who think life is fair.

Guy above me: Wouldn't you be happy if your siblings were alive and you could talk to people? You can't and they aren't, so you're depressed. I'm sure if everyone had dead siblings and couldn't hold a conversation, you would be fine with these traits of your life, right?

 

[Blackadder]

Guy above me: Wouldn't you be happy if your siblings were alive and you could talk to people? You can't and they aren't, so you're depressed. I'm sure if everyone had dead siblings and couldn't hold a conversation, you would be fine with these traits of your life, right?

...In theory? It'd be a rather awful existance for all, really.
...Actually no.
If that was the case I'd have offed myself a LONG time ago. ._.

You need hugs.

 

[KillerSOS]

You choose to be happy. End of story.

 

[1048576]

Free will is logically impossible. End of story.

 

[Azua]

Opinions are not facts. End of story.

 

[Eor]

Why do we still entertain this guy, can't he pretend to be the emo philosopher somewhere else? He's done this too often

 

[Jam Stunna]

We all go through emo-philosophical stages. I guess some people's just last longer than others.

No one here is saying that life is fair, but that's part of what makes it so wonderful. If everything went according to plan for me, I wouldn't be where I am today, and I'm happy right now, in spite of the enormous mistakes I've made.

And your definition of "free will" is wrong. Free will (or freedom in general) is not the ability to do whatever you want, whenever you want. It's the capacity to choose. You can choose to shirk all of your responsibilities, ignore everyone but yourself, ****, murder and pillage. You just have to be ready to deal with the ramifications of your choices. All decisions have consequences, even the right ones.

Would life be fair if everyone were given the same lot? No, because then people who are more talented would receive the same as people who are less talented. It sounds good in theory, but when you start applying it to real life, it quickly falls apart. Should I receive the same amount of accolades for playing Smash as Pc Chris does? Should I have as much money as the guys who invented Google? Would that really be fair?

Being mediocre, or even sucking, is not a condemnation to unhappiness. There are many things that I suck at, but I still enjoy them. It's not always about being the best, the fastest, or the richest. Sometimes it's just about doing it, and that's enough.

 

[SuperRacoon]

SuperRacoon: do you believe that societies with a low population density are unhappier?

What I believe is that people who end up lonely are less happy than those with family and friends are.

Now that's not the case for everyone, there are people who go through a great deal of trouble to remove all social connections, we call them hermits. They are probably happy that way, I'm in no place to judge what happiness is to them.

But if I was stuck somewhere without anyone, I'd be miserable.

 

[Livvers]

I'm sure if everyone had dead siblings and couldn't hold a conversation, you would be fine with these traits of your life, right?

*spits out drink* Bahahahahaha.

If you turn out to be a huge troll, I commend you.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Free will is logically impossible?

How naive can you get? Instead of ranting this thread I will only say that you can only be as happy as you want to be.

You saying everyone having a slavery (uniform) style instead of having free will fails, you konw why, because slave would have to look up on somebody to command them, therefore everyobdy would feel unhappy about that.

So my good friend, your logic fails.

 

[1048576]

Oh for heaven's sake, where's Alt when you need him. Free will defies causality. Without causality you have nothing. There's no reason to ever formulate hypotheses or reach conclusions if causality is assumed to be false. Logic requires causality. If there is a supernatural force that disobeys the natural law of causality then it cannot interact with the natural world because the natural world is bound by natural laws. Free will isn't possible.

OK I'm an emo philosopher. Although the free will thing is more common sense than philosophy. What of it?

SuperRacoon, is it fair to say that people living in Hong Kong are probably less lonely than people living in the United Kingdom? If so, then I don't think being around others is the primary factor in determining happiness, although it may still be a contributing factor.

People with more talent have more talent because they got lucky. For example, in the last month, I've taken 3000 free throws. My percentage went from exactly 50% to exactly 50%. Someone who shots free throws better than me probably doesn't do it from motivation or drive, but from natural ability. Having a low IQ is not a choice, can we at least agree there for now?

I know what free will is...

The only reason I enjoy things I suck at is because I look at the prospect of improving.

 

[SuperRacoon]

SuperRacoon, is it fair to say that people living in Hong Kong are probably less lonely than people living in the United Kingdom? If so, then I don't think being around others is the primary factor in determining happiness, although it may still be a contributing factor.

Actually, now you're starting to get what I'm saying! It happens all the time that people are lonely in a crowded place because no one bothers to try to understand each other.

It's entirely possible to never know the names of your classmates, even though you sit with them every day. It takes more just a group of people to be happy, a willingness to share, talk, laugh and help each other out is also required.

 

[Xanthyr]

Mic, I guess the hypothetical situation would be if our masters weren't human, or if we needed so much food to stay alive that we had to work all day to obtain it.

If we had known masters, it would be inequality and thus unhappiness. That point is debunked.

The other point you make is interesting, you're pretty much saying everyone obtains food to survive. This has happened in the past, in all civilizations and societies. The Hunter-gatherer, agricultural stages of each. That means that people were once happier at an earlier time than they are now.

However, we don't work that way. The human existence is to better itself. In order to better itself it needs to be lacking in something, and even if they aren't lacking, they are still dissatisfied and continue until pleased, making progress in whatever it is they are doing. You can make yourself happy, you can make another person happy, hell, you can make a generation happy! However, because the offspring of that generation didn't have the comparison to make from the transition from good to better, everything needs improving, everything is granted, bland, and worse off.

You theory is also just... unnatural to me. I don't live in competition with my neighbor, and I'm worse off than most everyone I know, but I still seem to be happier. I rarely get jealous or envious of anything at all, but that doesn't mean I'm without passion.

Now, what is interesting is that your theory also adheres to my point before.

You can make yourself happy, you can make another person happy, hell, you can make a generation happy! However, because the offspring of that generation didn't have the comparison to make from the transition from good to better, everything needs improving, everything is granted, bland, and worse off.

You will make the generation happy, but the cycle BOOM starts again as soon as a child is born.

 

[Overload]

http://www.cracked.com/article_15231_7-reasons-21st-century-making-you-miserable.html[/url]

That was a very good read, thanks.

 

[Crimson King]

Also, CK, most of Europe has a lower suicide rate than the US. I just looked it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate - from WHO; it's their job fro accurate facts.

The US ranks 43rd behind MANY European countries. So, your whole MO is that you just lie when a point is counter to your argument?