Multihit Powershield behavior - why I think it's blech

[Paradoxium]

I have no idea what the **** you people are talking about, I'm hust glad this website is back up

 

[Darkgun]

I am admittedly not completely sure if this topic is still up for debate or not, but I figure I could throw two pennies into the pile and see what happens.

I'll start by saying, that on the outset, I actually don't like some of the results of this change. While I do agree that some normalcy across more situations is nice, the lack of said consistency made the moves of certain characters more diverse, such as using a multi-hit smash to push an opponent away, and frankly I find that diversity cool! Heck, moves having multiple purposes and reactions having different results from character to character is the kind of spice that makes fighting games, especially one as varied as P:M, exciting. That's just a me thing, looking only at the premise, and observing my lack of experience with the specific change itself.

However, I am also a fan of change, and more importantly, seeing what results from said changes. And with that in mind, as with most continually updating games (see: MMOs such as WoW, GW2, Tribes:Ascend before it went GoTY), patches and changes are, as they should be, chronologically far apart, partially because of development time, partially so a dev can see just what effect that change is having on the metagame. The point I am trying to make here is that despite the initial observations we're making now, there is no where near enough information to create even an educated guess as to how, both positively or negatively, this is going to effect the character's overarching metagame.

Long post short: It's only been a few months... give it like... six or so before we start decisively saying that things are or are not a problem.

 

[F. Blue]

My scrubby Brawl-native roommate with near zero techskill took a game from Cactuar with Zelda. She needed a nerf anyway.

 

[ELI-mination]

My scrubby Brawl-native roommate with near zero techskill took a game from Cactuar with Zelda. She needed a nerf anyway.

WTF who cares

 

[F. Blue]

WTF who cares

The PMBR's mission statement is as follows:

[Project M aims to be] A fast-paced game with flowing, natural movement where the player has a great degree of control over his character due to the technical skill that he's achieved.

A new player picking his Brawl main, not L cancelling, constantly rolling, spot-dodging and recovering onto the stage, and winning against one of the best Melee players on the east coast surely suggests that the character has not met the aforementioned criteria.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I mean, she plays pretty similarly to her Brawl counterpart. Also, how much experience does Cactuar have with Project M? It is, after all, a different game than Melee.

 

[Oro?!]

I also want to say that MHPS is not a foreign concept to smash, since Yoshi possesses it in Melee (and I believe Brawl) due to his different shield mechanics. So that entire argument goes out the window, and it becomes not liking that it is being normalized among the cast.

 

[ELI-mination]

Looking at a match that happened between 2 smashers and listing the outcome as indicative of something that should represent what makes good game design is not only flawed with how it fails to capture enough actual useful data, but also biased with how much importance you placed on said match. And also the fact that you think a top melee player losing once in P:M is somehow a flaw with the game and not the player, simply because they were good at melee.

 

[F. Blue]

I may have conveniently left out that it was only Cactuar's 2nd time playing Project M, and that he nailed the other guy's ass to the wall 9/10 games.

But compare that to Mango Hungrybox or Armada picking up the game and winning a tournament that same day. Something seems off.

 

[Oro?!]

Mango has lost several sets just from not knowing how characters function in PM to Metroid, Hammertime, and Armada off the top of my head, and most likely dozens of games to "randoms" for not knowing anything. Those are tournament games and sets, not just friendlies.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I also want to say that MHPS is not a foreign concept to smash, since Yoshi possesses it in Melee (and I believe Brawl) due to his different shield mechanics. So that entire argument goes out the window, and it becomes not liking that it is being normalized among the cast.

I don't see everyone having Yoshi's invincible parrying shield drop or his immunity to shield stabs. What's your point?

 

[Oro?!]

There wasn't really a point as I'm not really trying to make a case for or against MHPS. Just throwing out that factoid since introducing an alien concept in order to normalize shield properties would be a lot less likely to have a following than an already existing concept in smash becoming the norm.

 

[The_NZA]

I don't see everyone having Yoshi's invincible parrying shield drop or his immunity to shield stabs. What's your point?

Dude, you don't have to adopt every feature of a character's move to say you are drawing a precedent from it.

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. Lose a random game of Peach vs Zelda while playing casually and you'll never live it down on the internet. LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES!

If I were playing in a P:M tournament, I'd probably use characters I actually play in Melee.

Do you know what happened to the TV I left there?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Dude, you don't have to adopt every feature of a character's move to say you are drawing a precedent from it.

It makes no sense to rationalize drawing a precedent from a character with a lack of pushback on PS'd multihits being a saving grace outweighed by a slew of negatives concerning his shielding that any other character does not have to deal with, who more importantly doesn't even exist in P:M right now.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, she plays pretty similarly to her Brawl counterpart. Also, how much experience does Cactuar have with Project M? It is, after all, a different game than Melee.

it's also cactuar to be fair.

 

[Strong Badam]

Lol. Lose a random game of Peach vs Zelda while playing casually and you'll never live it down on the internet. LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES!

If I were playing in a P:M tournament, I'd probably use characters I actually play in Melee.

Do you know what happened to the TV I left there?

all I've learned from this is that Cactuar is a fraud.

 

[ph00tbag]

Successfully powershielding ought to be rewarded.

Now, if we were talking about how silly it is that many of these these moves are so easy to SDI out of...

 

[RyokoYaksa]

No internets, McD's to the rescue.

Successfully powershielding ought to be rewarded.

Now, if we were talking about how silly it is that many of these these moves are so easy to SDI out of...

Successfully powershielding has never automatically meant receiving a tangible reward for doing it (that is, an easily reactible punishment window). That depends on the move in question, and this applies single hits, as well. Moves that were only safe on powershield by manner of their pushback but give a year's worth of reactable are the moves to suffer. Even in Melee offering reliable pushback was a primary purpose of these moves made by players who use these characters over the years because they're not safe by means of their frames. Parroting "successful powershielding ought to be reward" is meaningless when the scope of reward is already highly variable in regards to single hit attacks, from positive reward all the way to negative reward. This includes the presumption that powershield is some end-all answer to all attacks that can be powershielded, which is far from the case. Even in other fighters, superguard type maneuvers aren't the ideal option to deal with all moves susceptible to them. The kicker is I've said all that already.

Multi-hits being hard/impossible to SDI out of would be their own topic, but tl;dr people vastly underestimate the fact that these same moves that are nigh unSDIable have their own set of weaknesses associated with being multihits that only do any launch with a specific hit within the move. Making them escapable and leaving the user unsafe while also wasting a hit opportunity would make them godawful in high level play, and this already happened with later versions of Melee. Stop complaining about the fact that you can't SDI out of them and appreciate the fact that you have a lunch break's worth of time to realize you're being hit and SDI+DI away from the opponent on the launching hit, which would be a luxury when dealing with the most dangerous combo moves from characters like Fox and Sheik that are single hit and are unDIable on reaction, meaning you're in for a ride almost whenever you get hit by them.

 

[ph00tbag]

So you agree with me that multi-hit moves which provide no means of DI adaptation (pretty much all grounded ones) shouldn't be SDIable. You recognize that this would inherently buff them by making them safe on hit, allowing them to do their full damage, even if the first hit connects. But then you also argue that they should be safe on a block type that has a higher execution skill floor. So what exactly is the weakness of the move, now? Being easy to DI on the last hit isn't that huge a weakness since it's already a step up from where those moves used to be. There has to be some option against these moves that provides better responses to them than others, since a regular block takes too much stun, a hit eats the whole move, a cc eats all the damage and only works under a certain percent, and not the whole cast can travel from a safe distance to a punishment over the course of the move's cooldown. If there's nothing else that works, then half the character's match-ups become spamming the multi-hit grounded moves.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Theorycraft and nothing more. Even in their best state in Melee, they weren't abusable to that extent due to some exploitable weak point in the move unrelated to how it hits, or the character itself preventing true abusability without commitment. tl;dr if those moves really had no weaknesses as you imply, they'd be the cream of the crop as far as the game's dumbest moves. Somehow, they never were.

You may have also missed me saying that only a select few moves provide significant pushback on shield/PS (less than 5 characters), which are the important tools mentioned to those characters for that reason since they're not safe by virtue of their frames, cooldown on whiff, etc. The vast majority of multihits like those are actually already godawful on block. They may be reliable on hit but only a very few are safe to a number of defensiv options including CC/PS, which certainly isn't out of the realm of what some single hits can do. You're talking about them like some collective when their safety in comparison to a number of different defensive options are as variable as any other attack.

I would also not put a case for "the whole cast can't punish it on X option, so it must be rebalanced." The game is full of character dependent punishment, and it makes no sense to stop at what you can do on shield/powershield, especially since it's not just those moves that provide an unpunishable on block scenario to some characters but not others.

 

[ph00tbag]

Other factors went into them not being the game's dumbest moves. Mostly it was the fact that there were situations where they didn't really cover any options, and thus weren't ideal to use. But when they were the ideal move, the universal counter in Melee (well, 1.1 and onward, at least), was to get hit and SDI out. PS and LS had too much pushback, blocking had too much stun, not the whole cast can punish with footsies (that is, there are characters that can punish them via dd, but not everyone, meaning it's not universal), and ccing is inconsistently effective.

You want to remove the closest option to a universal counter for these moves--that's fine, since that option was unintuitive, and really stupid anyway. But you don't want to provide any alternative universal counter. That's just bad design. You can call my assertion theorycrafting, but in game design all you have is theory. Dismissing theory because it's theory is irresponsible design.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Other factors went into them not being the game's dumbest moves. Mostly it was the fact that there were situations where they didn't really cover any options, and thus weren't ideal to use. But when they were the ideal move, the universal counter in Melee (well, 1.1 and onward, at least), was to get hit and SDI out. PS and LS had too much pushback, blocking had too much stun, not the whole cast can punish with footsies (that is, there are characters that can punish them via dd, but not everyone, meaning it's not universal), and ccing is inconsistently effective.

Random fact - you mean 1.2 and PAL. 1.0 and 1.1 had functional 1% multihits.

I don't see how this is a problem when this logic can be applied to any other move in the game. Not all moves are CCable, punishable on shield, dodge, etc. And even then, those punishes are subject to character dependence, too. No move has a universal counter, and catch-all counters honestly make for a dull game. But against the multihits with pushback, they themselves are particularly weak to bait and punish. Considering the relative immobility of the characters with those moves that isn't an unrealistic possibility in the slightest. Those moves not like Peach's Dsmash where multiple hits are icing on the cake that are the most common type of multihit are also weak to attack trades, meaning they're not just something you can throw out and still come out even for "landing a hit" with it, because you'll be the one losing damage. You can call it "irresponsible design" or whatever but that's how people have been dealing with those moves for well over 10 years even in their best state.

 

[Player -0]

I guess my really bad/going to be hated on opinion on this is:
1. If people don't like the aesthetics then I'm sure the PM people can easily fix that.

2. If people can get a consistency of power shielding multi hit moves i.e. GW's Bair, Peach D-Smash, Zelda F-Smash, then I think they should be able to get an advantage to punish or have a bigger window to do so. CCing these moves makes you have a ton of damage, using a normal shield makes you take massive shield damage, and moving away can leave you in a bad position or unable to punish.

3. Pulling this off consistently against an opponent that's actively mixing up their game and in such a fast paced game either requires you to know they're going to throw out the move or you have crazy reaction time (I guess not crazy but meh) in which I think you kind of deserve a punish (Or a bigger window to do so)

4. You can always charge the move just a tiny bit to throw off the timing of your opponent if using a multihit move.

5. Zelda is kind of a campy character (Only a bit.... ), Peach can make this a bit safer with turnips, GW can DI away during the Bair if spaced right/if powershielded (I think?)

 

[ph00tbag]

You can call it "irresponsible design" or whatever but that's how people have been dealing with those moves for well over 10 years even in their best state.

That doesn't make it an admirable goal by any stretch.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

That doesn't make it an admirable goal by any stretch.

An admirable goal is to have players devise their own unorthodox strategies to deal with moves when presented with some sort of hurdle, creating overall more creative players that really stretch the character's strengths. Not having golden opportunities spoonfed to them that are ultimately imbalanced with logic behind its implementation full of holes.

 

[SpiderMad]

An admirable goal is to have players devise their own unorthodox strategies to deal with moves when presented with some sort of hurdle, creating overall more creative players that really stretch the character's strengths. Not having golden opportunities spoonfed to them that are ultimately imbalanced with logic behind its implementation full of holes.

They ruined pits SH Arrow WL/AGT/DJ =(

 

[Player -0]

They ruined pits SH Arrow WL/AGT/DJ =(

...?
Edit: What be dis?

 

[SpiderMad]

...?
Edit: What be dis?

I'll have a video tomorrow

 

[Archangel]

All I'll say on this subject is the multihit powershield is stupid. The Brawl Shields in general are dumb and I'd love the ability to Light shield. I'd also like it if I could Shield on a platform, Get knocked off said platform, and do a ****ing aerial or special move and not flailing around like a fool. Unfortunately the shields are what they are right now so you gotta deal with them until they can be improved or quit playing. You can dislike somethings about Project M's design but honestly....I'm starting to get tired of the crybaby threads popping up. Yeah there are good points and all but still...it's really just crying disguised as logical arguments. We already know that shields are bad in this game. The effects are observable it's not like you need to make a slowmo gif to show it. Still, People are choosing to deal with the problems because A) this is STILL a demo and B) the good outweighs the bad. So, can we please put an end to threads like this?

 

[ph00tbag]

An admirable goal is to have players devise their own unorthodox strategies to deal with moves when presented with some sort of hurdle, creating overall more creative players that really stretch the character's strengths. Not having golden opportunities spoonfed to them that are ultimately imbalanced with logic behind its implementation full of holes.

MvC2 is a terribly designed game.

Basically, you can make a game where you've designed some counter to every broken thing you can conceive (and made an effort to create counters for the ones you can't conceive), or you can just put **** in the game and say to the player, "you figure it out." You may get lucky with the latter, or you may not. Either way, you're being a lazy, bad game designer.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Smash and by extension P:M aren't even in the same league as MvC2, a game I never even alluded to, as far as how brutal getting touched in those games means for your "life bar." None of what you're saying truly applies to this case, as those moves I mentioned were never "broken," certainly not in comparison to some moves other characters have access to that are more offending, and more importantly have many years of exposure to back that up that claim.

You can say a lot of moves are broken by looking at them in a vacuum out of context. It's more important to regard the character's whole toolkit and limitations which by themselves bring such moves down to earth, or for highly mobile characters, make moves better than they should be. Characters like Bowser or Zelda have a ton of stupid moves in just about every moveslot but they're regarded to be rather low on the totem pole despite this. There's a reason for that.

Yeah there are good points and all but still...it's really just crying disguised as logical arguments. We already know that shields are bad in this game. The effects are observable it's not like you need to make a slowmo gif to show it. Still, People are choosing to deal with the problems because A) this is STILL a demo and B) the good outweighs the bad. So, can we please put an end to threads like this?

The very means of how this was implemented (it was not a clean, well received plan) was just as bad as the resulting effect itself to me. You can say what you want about shields not being Melee-like but the point is that this wasn't an issue previously, being added with this release. It's also a change that deviates shields further in the direction from being Melee-like or even Brawl-like. You can keep telling yourself "it's just a demo" in ignorance of the fact that people have been putting their dimes on P:M tournaments since demo1. Once money is involved "just a demo" loses its meaning, and I know I've said that already.

 

[Rikana]

darn you kakka carrot cake.
You am no real super sand
WHAT DO YOU MEAN VIRGINIA?
im going
eurgh urgh
to fight
urgh... :o
yooOooouUUuuuuuUUUUUUUUUUuUuuuUuuuuuUuuu |: >
What are you, inSAYAN?!
yes :/
ttptptppptptpptppptptpbubtpfptbtpbtbubbpppftffffpPppPppPppshhhhspPpPpp

They ruined pits SH Arrow WL/AGT/DJ =(

waveland aerial glide toss double jump?

 

[SpiderMad]

waveland aerial glide toss double jump?

...?
Edit: What be dis?

I didn't get much time today but I wanted to make a better and more expansive video than this previous old one I've been linking (which I still might do, possibly tomorrow)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QHcWCsLuAgc#t=107

Pits aerial arrow in 2.5 ended just soon enough that if you inputted the Arrow early during a SH: you had a couple free frames of air time. This fact was not used or implemented by any of the Pit players I've watched, they didn't even press the arrow that soon and would always land from it. Instead of saying "Pit's SH arrow ending in the air/free frames" I just like to put "Wavedash(land) or Double Jump or Aerial Glide Toss" WD/DJ/AGT, since those seemed to be the three available options since you didn't have time for any aerial (unless you DJ first).

Then in 2.6 they made his arrow have more cooldown giving no free aerial frames possible. It was like if you played Wolf, and Wolf players are a bunch of noobs who didn't know his Laser AD cancel existed (AD cancel can also be used to AGT http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=87G-nPP4Njo#t=41), and then got it removed and no one cares (except worse in that Pit had DJ possible from it as well). Would you enjoy Wolf as much with his blaster AD cancel gone? He'd be just like Pit, they're basically the same now with Pits being slower except he didn't get an AD cancel.

My upgraded video demonstration would try to include the cool and useful stuff WD/DJ/AGT allows (the little I found before its entirety was destroyed). Especially Waveland(WD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=U8ivImWJO4Q#t=131 this video is old and doesn't demonstrate the use besides seeing me do it, I implemented it more later on] which you can use to space and do tricks off ledges after the arrow from a SH by the ledge and FH over platform's edges]

 

[DMG]

a

 

[The_NZA]

I guess my really bad/going to be hated on opinion on this is:
1. If people don't like the aesthetics then I'm sure the PM people can easily fix that.

2. If people can get a consistency of power shielding multi hit moves i.e. GW's Bair, Peach D-Smash, Zelda F-Smash, then I think they should be able to get an advantage to punish or have a bigger window to do so. CCing these moves makes you have a ton of damage, using a normal shield makes you take massive shield damage, and moving away can leave you in a bad position or unable to punish.

3. Pulling this off consistently against an opponent that's actively mixing up their game and in such a fast paced game either requires you to know they're going to throw out the move or you have crazy reaction time (I guess not crazy but meh) in which I think you kind of deserve a punish (Or a bigger window to do so)

4. You can always charge the move just a tiny bit to throw off the timing of your opponent if using a multihit move.

5. Zelda is kind of a campy character (Only a bit.... ), Peach can make this a bit safer with turnips, GW can DI away during the Bair if spaced right/if powershielded (I think?)

Your not hated. I actually think most people on the PM boards agree with this opinion but they don't give a **** to read pages about how multi-powersheilded continuous hitting smashes could be a bad thing for the game. The fact that they don't care is indicative of something important: it's just not that frequent an occurrence to begin with, and responding with a powershield to anything in this game is a high risk maneuver that should be rewarded with high reward. It is just intuitive: if you pull off a powershield, its a parry. It overrides everything, and should override everything.

 

[ph00tbag]

Smash and by extension P:M aren't even in the same league as MvC2, a game I never even alluded to, as far as how brutal getting touched in those games means for your "life bar."

I never said you alluded to it. I alluded to it. I used MvC2 as an example of the game design philosophy you are embracing here, that you can just put **** in a game, and just hope for the best. MvC2 certainly is in a whole other league on this. Rather than just having one or two things that are silly and have no universal counters aside from the rawest, hardest, most razor-thin-timed reads and bat-**** insanity, that is the composition of the whole game, and the end result is a game that is, ultimately, rather terrible, and only succeeded because of a flashy aesthetic design and an obsessively dedicated community. Melee at least has a few universal mechanics that make the game a little bit less one-sided.

But the comparison, vis-a-vis design philosophy, is still wholly valid, and you haven't really remarked on that, or presented any defense of the notion that you can just put **** in a game and hope it works and still say you are a responsible designer.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Your not hated. I actually think most people on the PM boards agree with this opinion but they don't give a **** to read pages about how multi-powersheilded continuous hitting smashes could be a bad thing for the game. The fact that they don't care is indicative of something important: it's just not that frequent an occurrence to begin with, and responding with a powershield to anything in this game is a high risk maneuver that should be rewarded with high reward. It is just intuitive: if you pull off a powershield, its a parry. It overrides everything, and should override everything.

You pretty much ingored most of my points that were in the title post. High reward is not automatic. You don't get a free punish off everything you powershield. Some moves are better off not powershielded, because shieldstun is an important part of punishment that powershield is not a negation of, leaving you better off to do something else. It's not particularly high risk, because the input for powershielding is identical to blocking normally, just timed within a few frames. Compared to a parry in SF3S the input is completely separate from blocking. In SoulcaliburV, it's a true reversal, and for its own "superguard" maneuver you need to tap and release the guard button right before taking a hit. In any of those cases, you will get hit if you fail, or take a substantial form of chip damage by blocking normally. Overshooting the timing on a powershield results in you... just blocking normally. It's not even comparable to a parry for what it does and what little execution it requires. It's just a guard with benefits that you're assuming is the best thing to do every time, which it isn't. There's serious limits to what it does, even with moves that never caused it to pushback on PS.

-----

ph00tbag, embracing MvC2 would be intentionally littering P:M with uncounterable moves. Where have I done that? There's hardly a reason to put "universal counters" to these moves that I am specifically singling out when there was never any burden of proof to necessitate adding them. They were put in by Melee's original design (barring GnW) and players have been using and dealing with those moves for a decade, which is the burden of proof. I have no need to present a defense to the moves I'm mentioning because they were not just put in by us just recently and thrown to the dogs, but tested by an immersion philosophy many years ago. If you think I'm somehow guilty of being an irresponsible designer, then most consumers of Melee that wanted P:M are guilty of that. Don't direct your single-minded fury to me. Your problem with a lack of "universal counters" to some moves is way bigger than just what I'm arguing about if you're this clingy about it. For one, grabs and particularly throws don't have meaningful counters, and neither does fast and long dash dance camping. These mechanics are also imbalanced among the cast. I don't see you talking about them, and I don't want you inflating this thread with tangential comparisons that you could just as easily create a focused discussion on one of your own outlets for.

 

[Player -0]

Darp

Typically people don't hold shield when trying for a Power Shield so yes, I guess you do get hurt for missing a Power Shield.
Besides, it's not like you get a FREE punish when you Power Shield, you still have to do stuff to punish and the person that was attacking should be trying to attack as safely as possible so it's harder to punish or a weaker punish.

 

[The_NZA]

You pretty much ingored most of my points that were in the title post. High reward is not automatic. You don't get a free punish off everything you powershield. Some moves are better off not powershielded, because shieldstun is an important part of punishment that powershield is not a negation of, leaving you better off to do something else. It's not particularly high risk, because the input for powershielding is identical to blocking normally, just timed within a few frames. Compared to a parry in SF3S the input is completely separate from blocking. In SoulcaliburV, it's a true reversal, and for its own "superguard" maneuver you need to tap and release the guard button right before taking a hit. In any of those cases, you will get hit if you fail, or take a substantial form of chip damage by blocking normally. Overshooting the timing on a powershield results in you... just blocking normally. It's not even comparable to a parry for what it does and what little execution it requires. It's just a guard with benefits that you're assuming is the best thing to do every time, which it isn't. There's serious limits to what it does, even with moves that never caused it to pushback on PS.

-----

ph00tbag, embracing MvC2 would be intentionally littering P:M with uncounterable moves. Where have I done that? There's hardly a reason to put "universal counters" to these moves that I am specifically singling out when there was never any burden of proof to necessitate adding them. They were put in by Melee's original design (barring GnW) and players have been using and dealing with those moves for a decade, which is the burden of proof. I have no need to present a defense to the moves I'm mentioning because they were not just put in by us just recently and thrown to the dogs, but tested by an immersion philosophy many years ago. If you think I'm somehow guilty of being an irresponsible designer, then most consumers of Melee that wanted P:M are guilty of that. Don't direct your single-minded fury to me. Your problem with a lack of "universal counters" to some moves is way bigger than just what I'm arguing about if you're this clingy about it. For one, grabs and particularly throws don't have meaningful counters, and neither does fast and long dash dance camping. These mechanics are also imbalanced among the cast. I don't see you talking about them, and I don't want you inflating this thread with tangential comparisons that you could just as easily create a focused discussion on one of your own outlets for.

Okay, I didn't mean to say "all moves are better powershielded". I meant to say "all moves SHOULD be superior to powershield". It seems like simple design 101 to me and I think the game is richer for it. I never think Powershielding will enter a rotation of decision making, where someone goes "I'm giong to use a multihit move in case my opponent power shields", but I do think on the occasion of high level play, we might see a player who risks it all by shielding as late as possible on reaction leading to power shielded openings. In that case, the opponent can respond by charging attacks. That to me would be the highest level smash.

And speaking to the risks of powershielding, if you undershoot it, your safe. If you overshoot it, you will get hit (since you will put up your shield too late). We could be reversing our usages of over/undershoot but the point remains the same.