Guide Mr. Fuji's Journal - Moveset Thread - Hiatus

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

A week or two and then public release happens so it'll be another week or two. Then Lucas will be the new shiny coin and everyone will be a Lucas main/have a pocket Lucas.

...Sometimes I forget that Mewtwo hasn't been released to the world yet haha

 

[---]

Tested some basic Kill%s on a default Mii on center Battlefield without DI. With Rage.

F-Tilt: 178%
Dash: 198%
Min F-Smash: 110% (sweetspot), 125% (sourspot)
Max F-Smash: 67% (sweetspot), 82% (sourspot)
Min Up-Smash: 112%
Max Up-Smash: 74%
Min D-Smash: 123% (the 45 degree angle makes it weird)
Max D-Smash: ~82%
F-Air: 136%
B-Air: 155%
D-Air: 140%
Up-Air: 195%
B-Throw: 167%
Up-Throw: 147%
Shadow Ball: ~110%

Not sure if this is good or bad.

EDIT: In hindsight, I'll try after using a healing item.
EDIT2: Doesn't seem to be much of a difference.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Tested some basic Kill%s on a default Mii on center Battlefield without DI.

F-Tilt: 175%
Dash: 198%
Min F-Smash: 110% (sweetspot), 125% (sourspot)
Max F-Smash: 67% (sweetspot), 82% (sourspot)
Min Up-Smash: 112%
Max Up-Smash: 74%
Min D-Smash: 123% (the 45 degree angle makes it weird)
Max D-Smash: ~82%
F-Air: 136%
B-Air: 155%
D-Air: 140%
Up-Air: 195%
B-Throw: 167%
Up-Throw: 197%
Shadow Ball: ~110%

Not sure if this is good or bad.

If I can kill Ganon and Bowser at 130% with an Up-Throw, then there is definitely something wrong with this.

 

[---]

If I can kill Ganon and Bowser at 130% with an Up-Throw, then there is definitely something wrong with this.

Derp, accidentally misread my own handwriting, it's actually 147%. Bowser dies at about 155% BTW.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Derp, accidentally misread my own handwriting, it's actually 147%. Bowser dies at about 155% BTW.

Are you doing max rage (150%)?

 

[---]

Are you doing max rage (150%)?

Originally whatever percent it took to kill was the same % rage I had, but then after a couple Heart Container tests there wasn't any real differences beyond the estimates from before.

Double checking is, of course, always welcome. Get to work people.

Default Mii, Control (so no CPU DI), center Battlefield,

 

[Chiroz]

Originally whatever percent it took to kill was the same % rage I had, but then after a couple Heart Container tests there wasn't any real differences beyond the estimates from before.

Double checking is, of course, always welcome. Get to work people.

Default Mii, Control (so no CPU DI), center Battlefield,

Rage doesn't work in pratice mode.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Originally whatever percent it took to kill was the same % rage I had, but then after a couple Heart Container tests there wasn't any real differences beyond the estimates from before.

Double checking is, of course, always welcome. Get to work people.

Default Mii, Control (so no CPU DI), center Battlefield,

Rage doesn't work in pratice mode.

Raykz 2fast4me.

 

[---]

Rage doesn't work in pratice mode.

Well that makes things easy. LMAO

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Well that makes things easy. LMAO

Wait, so are we assuming that that the percent they die at are the kill% or is it % they get hit by a move is the kill%?

 

[Spirst]

Generally, it's done so that the % they get hit at is the determined kill %. That makes the most sense since it denotes the minimum % at which your landed move will KO.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Generally, it's done so that the % they get hit at is the determined kill %. That makes the most sense since it denotes the minimum % at which your landed move will KO.

Cool.

Also, at which parts of Mewtwo's FSmash are Sweetspots and Sourspots?

 

[Chiroz]

Cool.

Also, at which parts of Mewtwo's FSmash are Sweetspots and Sourspots?

Sweetspot seems to be at the tip. I haven't explored it much yet to say for sure. It deals 19% damage while the sourspot deals 15%.

 

[---]

Also, at which parts of Mewtwo's FSmash are Sweetspots and Sourspots?

Sweet: Blast/Hands
Sour: Arms

For the Sweet to hit you want about ~1/3 character length away. If you do it while crossing your opponent like Rest, it's an automatic sour. Should mean we don't have to take the extra second to adjust our position after Disable.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Originally whatever percent it took to kill was the same % rage I had, but then after a couple Heart Container tests there wasn't any real differences beyond the estimates from before.

Double checking is, of course, always welcome. Get to work people.

Default Mii, Control (so no CPU DI), center Battlefield,

Here are some of the stuff I found using the things you listed above with Max Rage (150%)

Tilts:
F-Tilt: 150%

Aerials:
F-air: 109%
B-air: 140%
D-air: 110%
Up-air: 168%

Smash Attacks:
Min F-Smash: 95% (Sweetspot) 109% (Sourspot)
Max F-Smash: 50% (Sweetspot) 60% (Sourspot)
Min Up-smash: 84%
Max Up-Smash: 52%
Min D-Smash: 96%
Max D-Smash: 70%

Specials:
Shadow Ball: 80%

 

[zephyrnereus]

The way it works is the following, SB stops your second jump momentum but it doesn't stop your SH or FJ momentum, in fact it makes it faster. So if you jump and instantly release Shadow Ball as soon as you press jump then Mewtwo sort of releases Shadow Ball at the peak of his height always. Pretty neat.

actually, you can get a boost out of your second jump if you time your SB just before the apex of the second jump. Mewtwo's second jump is so janky in such a way that it goes down the moment you pres it, then launches up in the middle and suddenly pops you down a bit again right at the apex. timing shadow ball (or any special for that matter) to stop at certain heights will really separate the good mewtwos from the great mewtwos.

 

[Marigi174]

While it is kinda tricky to hit, Confusion is an INSANELY good edgeguarding tool. The fact that v.s. opponents with one air jump it can neuter all horizontal movement and leave them unable to jump forces them to use their recovery move(s), which you can read and take advantage of. While it does effectively guarantee you take damage, its hitbox is significantly safer than edgeguarding with a FAir, and BAir's low speed/wierd hitbox/predictability (no srs: if someone jumps out facing backwards a BAir is given away to be their edgeguarding strat) makes it a nice mixup option at the cost of the range of BAir.

 

[Bear Eyez]

I was watching a stream last night, I forget who it was but, they were using Side B into uncharged neutral B (on people who didn't jump,tech or missed there tech) as there character was in the standing animation? he could disable them then followed up with Up smash.

 

[Chiroz]

I was watching a stream last night, I forget who it was but, they were using Side B into uncharged neutral B (on people who didn't jump,tech or missed there tech) as there character was in the standing animation? he could disable them then followed up with Up smash.

If you get the lock you could probably just charge the Up-Smash instead of disabling.

 

[zephyrnereus]

If you get the lock you could probably just charge the Up-Smash instead of disabling.

skipping disable is a good alternative if the opponent has low percentage. but also keep in mind that the more damage they take the longer the stun will last, letting you charge any smash even longer than if you were just waiting for their getup animation.

 

[Chiroz]

skipping disable is a good alternative if the opponent has low percentage. but also keep in mind that the more damage they take the longer the stun will last, letting you charge any smash even longer than if you were just waiting for their getup animation.

I haven't done the math myself and I am just ballparking here but in order for the disable stun to last longer on a player that's mashing buttons I think the % would have to be around 150-200% and by that % charging doesn't really matter anymore.

 

[Bear Eyez]

If you get the lock you could probably just charge the Up-Smash instead of disabling.

My guess is smaller characters might miss the up smash? I dont know how the wake up mechanic works in terms of hurt boxes. Its possible he used disable as a means to ensure landing up smash?

skipping disable is a good alternative if the opponent has low percentage. but also keep in mind that the more damage they take the longer the stun will last, letting you charge any smash even longer than if you were just waiting for their getup animation.

Pending the % wouldn't D tilt > Fair just a better options then?

For all I know it was to style on people. Not too sure. Just putting it out there

 

[Malkior7]

Does Mewtwo really not have custom moves?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Does Mewtwo really not have custom moves?

No unfortunately

 

[Malkior7]

that's lame hope they add them in via game update or something

 

[Chiroz]

I see a lot of people claiming that N-Air is incredibly good for combos and set ups. I am very skeptical of this but can't test it as I don't have much time in the next 2 weeks (Probably will be able to really "lab" Mewtwo after the 1st of May).

I would like someone to test some things for me if he is able to.

First spacing:

Pick someone with the best grab range (non-tether) and try to space Mewtwo's N-Air as best as possible on the opponent's shield, hitting with the very tip. Try try grabbing Mewtwo with the other character and note down the results.



Second Cross Ups:

First pick Mario. Try doing N-Air with Mewtwo and landing behind the Mario. Next, try down smashing with Mario as you attempt to shield with Mewtwo. Repeat the test but this time do reverse up-b out of shield with Mario. Repeat a third time and do OoS N-Air. Note down the results.



Actual Frame Data:

Now pick Little Mac or something similar. N-Air him and spam jab with Little Mac as you make him land (do NOT connect with N-Air's last hitbox). Try to land a jab with Mewtwo (It's his quickest move too). See who lands the jabs first. If the above test fails (LM hits Mewtwo) then try with someone with a "regular jab". Pick Mario and do the test again.




I have a feeling ALL of the above tests will fail and that the move is actually quite bad at setting up and it's just catching people unexpectedly since it's new. I might be wrong and the move might be awesome, but I'd like to test it before everyone hails it as the new Jesus.

Also I'd like it if someone could explain to me how to control where your opponent ends up. Sometime they seem to end up below me, sometimes above me, sometimes on my right, sometimes on my left. I have no idea what the properties of the move actually are and it's kind of annoying.

 

[Chackaldane]

I haven't seen this posted and forgive me if it has been, but if you shoot a charged shadow ball while airborne it will pus you back a pretty decent distance. If you contact the ground you will be put in a slide. The neat thing is if you time it right you can act out of the slide. I have only tested smash attacks so far. Its also useful to unexpectedly shoot yourself off the stage and hit a returning opponent with a nAir as a mix up because mewtwo is floaty. It can also be used to evade an opponent who is closing in by Oos jumping out of the charge and reversing the shadow ball.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

probably all known information

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mewtwo_(SSB4)

ssbwiki found quite a few nerfs and buffs


no wonder I think mewtwo is mid/low this time I don't mind the nerfs so much. (except the weight one)

 

[Marigi174]

NAIr is bosslike at stopping approaches, as well as screwing with ZSS/Sheik's 'flip' moves. It is a nice edgeguarding tool.

Also, Mewtwo's airdodge has one of the fastest (if not the fastest) startup of all airdodges in the game, making it really easy for Mewtwo to escape a wide array of multi-hitting attacks that most other characters wouldn't.

edit: For those confused as to why Mewtwo has no customs, they have clearly been planned to be in. Quoting the trivia section of its SSB Wiki page:

"Mewtwo does have incomplete custom moves, accessible in-game via a glitch involving shared Mii Fighters. Most of these crash the game, although both variations of Confusion, as well as its third Up Special (a non-functional version of Disable that sends Mewtwo into its helpless state) and Down Special (which zooms the camera in on Mewtwo and temporarily slows down time) do not and actually have limited functionality."

 

[Jaguar360]

Apparently Raykz already commented on Thursday about what I wanted to say about D-throw (and Confusion to an extent), but I'll share my thoughts from the Social anyway, since this thread is more appropriate for it:

I've really being enjoying Mewtwo on days 2 and 3. He's still a weird character that takes time to adjust to, but I can tell that I'm understanding him more and getting better with him each day. I still find his weight stupid, but it sort of makes sense from gameplay perspective since they're really pushing for a glass cannon thing with him. Lighter than a short 2D man though? Smh.

Anyways, I find Mewtwo's d-throw to be very comparable to that of Greninja's. Neither lead into anything guaranteed, but they put Mewtwo/Greninja in a very advantageous positions that can lead into possible mixups and followups.

For example, both have a great chance at getting a running U-smash followup at mid-high percents on many characters (especially fast fallers like Falcon, Fox and Greninja) but can also opt for an f-air, n-air or U-air if they decide to jump or are too floaty for the U-smash to connect. I've gotten quite a few kills so far with D-throw --> U-smash despite it not being guaranteed at all.

At lower percents, Mewtwo can try for either D-tilt, N-air, F-smash, D-smash, Shadow Ball or even another grab/Confusion. The mixups out of D-throw should be used and explored. It's not a bad throw at all.

N-air is really nice thanks to its nearly non-existent endlag, though I still wish it either had a bit more range or priority. It gets beat out by a lot of moves with more range or priority (Luigi Cyclone, Doc Tornado, swords, etc) and that isn't fun. Still a great move though.

F-air is an awesome move. Fairly quick, decent range, disjointed, solid kill power even though it's not as good as Melee, and it's a fantastic edgeguard. Short hop F-air is one of Mewtwo's better approach options at mid range for its combination of speed, range and knockback.

D-tilt might actually be Mewtwo's best move imo. The range on the tail is great and it's tied for Jab as Mewtwo's fastest move iirc. It's also his most reliable combo starter and a generally good poke.

Jab is awesome now. Multi-hit jab links fairly well and does good damage and knockback. Jab 1 cancel is good and I think it guarantees D-tilt and grab at most percents. Jab 1 > Disable isn't guaranteed at all, but is still a good and scary setup that can end a stock very well.

Love U-tilt and U-air for their range. U-tilt combos are fun and getting U-tilt > U-smash at kill percents feels very rewarding. U-air isn't incredible for combos, but I've gotten U-air to F-air successfully a few times and N-air is a pretty safe followup from it.

That's all for now. Mewtwo's such a strange and interesting character that's fun to play and experiment with! I've barely touched my other characters since I've been trying to figure out this weird beast.

probably all known information

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mewtwo_(SSB4)

ssbwiki found quite a few nerfs and buffs


no wonder I think mewtwo is mid/low this time I don't mind the nerfs so much. (except the weight one)

This is nice so far, but they still fail to mention some things:

• Jab can be cancelled, links better and has a finisher with knockback
• D-smash has less endlag and hits at a higher angle
• Confusion has more hitstun, making it harder to punish Mewtwo after a successful hit
• Special moves still Double Jump Cancel

 

[Chiroz]

NAIr is bosslike at stopping approaches, as well as screwing with ZSS/Sheik's 'flip' moves. It is a nice edgeguarding tool.

Also, Mewtwo's airdodge has one of the fastest (if not the fastest) startup of all airdodges in the game, making it really easy for Mewtwo to escape a wide array of multi-hitting attacks that most other characters wouldn't.

edit: For those confused as to why Mewtwo has no customs, they have clearly been planned to be in. Quoting the trivia section of its SSB Wiki page:

Mewtwo's air dodge is really, really good in this game. If the frame data threads are to be believed he only has about 4 non-invincible frames in a 30 frame dodge, that's honestly impressive. I think air dodge might be the key to avoiding juggles. I am just very, very used to only dodging crucial or obvious approaches.

As for N-Air, I don't think it beats ZSS and Sheik's flips, are you sure it does? Does it cover Diddy's as well?

 

[Marigi174]

As for N-Air, I don't think it beats ZSS and Sheik's flips, are you sure it does? Does it cover Diddy's as well?

IK it beats Sheik's (I used it to block it and carry them below their recovery height without a jump :]) but I haven't tested vs. ZSS' one. I just assumed it would because it beats Sheiks ;P Diddy is in the same boat as ZSS, although I am less confident as to whether or not it will beat it or not.

 

[Sacredden]

Recovery with fully charge Aura Sphere:
Side B(face opposite direction) --> Neutral B(recoil in air) --> Up B

Combos: (At least what I have done or seen):

Zero obviously combos: Bair --> Bair --> Bair to kill someone off stage
Shofu's combo seems punishable, but : Side B --> Neutral B // and than somet

Dtilt --> Uair or Nair(Dtilt throws people into the air often)
Dtilt --> Uair --> Nair

Dthrow --> Fair

Teleport Tricks:
-Ledge Cancel
-Teleport to ground
-Teleport in place (good to mess with people)

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Mewtwo's air dodge is really, really good in this game. If the frame data threads are to be believed he only has about 4 non-invincible frames in a 30 frame dodge, that's honestly impressive. I think air dodge might be the key to avoiding juggles. I am just very, very used to only dodging crucial or obvious approaches.

As for N-Air, I don't think it beats ZSS and Sheik's flips, are you sure it does? Does it cover Diddy's as well?

It can beat the flip not the hitbox. As long as they trigger the kick in time they'll win out, but if they fall into a habit of just throwing it out, you can just nair when you know you're at a safe spacing. It's more safe than trying to straight up challenge it with a fair

 

[Chiroz]

It can beat the flip not the hitbox. As long as they trigger the kick in time they'll win out, but if they fall into a habit of just throwing it out, you can just nair when you know you're at a safe spacing. It's more safe than trying to straight up challenge it with a fair

So it doesn't beat them? Any attack beats the flip as it has no hitbox, lol.

Does it or not outprioritize the hitboxes?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

So it doesn't beat them? Any attack beats the flip as it has no hitbox, lol.

Does it or not outprioritize the hitboxes?

There is absolutely no way it outprioritizes the hitbox, but that guy never actually said it did is what I'm saying lol

 

[Chiroz]

There is absolutely no way it outprioritizes the hitbox, but that guy never actually said it did is what I'm saying lol

He said it screws with their flips as a "pro" of the move. If any other move can also screw with the flip then why mention it at all? It's like me starting to say: "You can hit idle characters, jumping characters, running characters", there's really no need to mention it.

I automatically assumed he meant the hitbox, also doesn't Sheik's automatically activate? (unlike ZSS or Diddy) So that means it would be active and he said it screws with Sheik's flip.

At this point I'd like him to clarify what he meant, I will probably test it myself anyways when I have the time .

 

[simpleglitch]

He said it screws with their flips as a "pro" of the move. If any other move can also screw with the flip then why mention it at all? It's like me starting to say: "You can hit idle characters, jumping characters, running characters", there's really no need to mention it.

I automatically assumed he meant the hitbox, also doesn't Sheik's automatically activate? (unlike ZSS or Diddy) So that means it would be active and he said it screws with Sheik's flip.

At this point I'd like him to clarify what he meant, I will probably test it myself anyways when I have the time .

Sheik's kick is activated at the of the flip, but not on proximity to the opponent. They can of course press B to kick early.

 

[Karsticles]

Usmash beats ZSS flip kick.

Also, Nair negates Megaman's Metal Blade and Crash Bomb. We should explore this for other matchups as well.
If you get Crash Bomb on you, you can teleport THROUGH Megaman and it will stick on him. The game must move his character model through the path to where you end at.

 

[Chiroz]

Usmash beats ZSS flip kick.

Also, Nair negates Megaman's Metal Blade and Crash Bomb. We should explore this for other matchups as well.
If you get Crash Bomb on you, you can teleport THROUGH Megaman and it will stick on him. The game must move his character model through the path to where you end at.

Which is probably the reason Mewtwo's teleport can't go through solid objects and bounces you off.