Guide Mr. Fuji's Journal - Moveset Thread - Hiatus

[Tinkerer]

I'm sure it's mentioned already but Disable is, for some reason, a projectile. It's noticeable in the many Mewtwo dittos here (Disable vs. Confusion will make the Disable user be stunned). I managed to pocket one earlier.

The forward throw shadow balls are projectiles too, which I'm not 100% whether that was the case in Melee already.

 

[Yorsh]

I cannot believe how badly designed Mewtwo turned out.

Bad points: Pathetic grab range. Pitiful movement speed. Hitboxes are all over the place.

Well, I main Zelda and Robin for now, so I considere maining him :D

He's not great. He's not good. He's not even mediocre. He is firmly a low-tier character, and once the Mewtwo Hype !! dies down I expect most people will come to their senses and agree with me. I did enjoy mew2king's waning enthusiasm as he played Mewtwo more and more. He went from (in his words) "real potential" to "good" to "average" to "mediocre" to "bad" in the span of a few hours.

He isn't even out for one day and you already gave up on him. For some characters it takes years to people to understand how to play them, or to discover a technique or a combo that make them viable. Wait at least to watch a competitve match (and I'm not talking about M2K or false streaming the first day, I'm talking about someone who actually trained with mewtwo in sm4sh).

Also, about combos : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9fN_84vRz0

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I got one

Reflecting projectiles in melee was hard

But in smash 4 is easier i reflected the ore club tornado easily without even paying attention to timing.

 

[Smog Frog]

I cannot believe how badly designed Mewtwo turned out.

I just cannot believe it.

This "glass cannon" refrain needs to die out. Mewtwo is not a cannon. He has two above-average kill throws, three powerful (and highly punishable) smash attacks, and... that's it.

Admittedly, he is glass. Lighter than G&W? Is this a joke?

Good points: Great recovery and solid gimp potential. Shame that, in this game, edge grabs are free and most characters have great recovery that's dangerous to challenge. These assets go to waste with Smash 4's mechanics.

Bad points: Pathetic grab range. Pitiful movement speed. Hitboxes are all over the place. Poor aerial offense. Tail is garbage. Virtually no safe options on shield. Struggles to even make contact with short characters. Absolutely nonexistent combo game -- and no, those silly training "combos" with no DI don't count. Playing Mewtwo effectively means searching out stray hits and then hoping to land a grab or land a miracle smash.

He's not great. He's not good. He's not even mediocre. He is firmly a low-tier character, and once the Mewtwo Hype !! dies down I expect most people will come to their senses and agree with me. I did enjoy mew2king's waning enthusiasm as he played Mewtwo more and more. He went from (in his words) "real potential" to "good" to "average" to "mediocre" to "bad" in the span of a few hours.

way to be a negative nancy. not only are some of your points straight up false(poor movement speed, bad grab range, poor aerial game, no safe options on shield), but mewtwo hasnt even been out for an entire ****ing day and you're trusting the opinions of a guy who's opinions are infamous for being radical. please wait for a few days, months if you're wise, before giving up hope.

 

[lilinuyasha]

Woke up early this morning and played Mewtwo for about 2 1/2 hours before I had to go.

After testing his moveset, I deduce that his Forward air is one of his best kill moves, as well as helping create good offstage pressure. His smash attacks, thought slow, are extremely powerful. His up smash, however, seems to be the fastest, with the smallest kill potential compared to down smash or side smash. (I could be wrong.)

Combos I've found:

Specials:
Side B: I've found that you can side b into down smash pretty effectively, supposing your opponent doesn't tech, Nair, or jump away. you can also combo it into a down tilt. My tilt game is horrible as my main is Duck Hunt, so I'll have to work more on that. If your opponent rolls away, you can throw a fully charged shadow ball to throw them off or create stage pressure. I haven't tried connecting it to a jab, but I can see that working.

Down B: This move is pretty explanatory. You stun your opponent for a length of time depending on their damage, then smash attack. Nothing fancy there.

Neutral B: Shadow ball. Nothing too fancy. Can help with stage recovery and can lead into a spacing tool if used in the air right before you land.

Aerials:

I haven't landed a lot of aerial combos, but the ones I did were pretty satisfying. After a few throws (Which I'll cover later) I managed to short hop Fair, Jump Fair, the Fair again. I've managed to do this a few times, but it's not reliable. Think of it like Ness' little wombo combo. It racks up a nice 45-50 damage if you land it, but it's not always easy to do.

Nair on the ground can set you up for tilt attacks or smash attacks if your opponent sucks.

Dair spikes. Typical up in the air juggle.

Uair gets a little tricky. If you can manage to start a good aerial combo, you can get a good 2 or 3 Uairs in. Jump, Uair, Jump Uair, Uair.

Bair, I've found, doesn't combo well. At lower percentages, you can Bair twice, but other than that, it seems to be more of a semi-ineffective spacing tool.

Grabs:

Down throw: At lower percentages, if your opponent didn't tech, you can start a shorthop Fair aerial, which can combo into the Fair combo i mentioned above. If your opponent air dodges, You can punish with a forward smash. However, I've found that at medium percentages, if they DI, they'll get out of your range. Try a shadow ball, perhaps.

Backward: Haven't found much combo potential here. Can combo into some small aerial moves at lower percentages, but your opponent usually has enough time to recover, making it ineffective. Better for throwing offstage for kills.

Forward: Pretty much the same as backward. Good for damage, but not a lot of combo potential.

Up: A good killing move, but not a lot of combo potential. At lower percentages, you can get a small aerial going, but that's about it. Once again, I'm not an expert, so take this with a grain of salt.

Tilts/neutral:

Up: Much like Mario, can be used a few times straight off the ground before your opponent can react enough to get out. You can follow with a Bair for Fair depending on which direction they go, supposing they haven't jumped out of the way.

Down: This has some fairly good reach. At lower percentages, This move knocks an opponent up in the air, leaving them vulnerable for smash attacks, Side Special, Grabs, or Utilt. At medium percentages, this can set up aerials, and at higher percentages, it's effectually a knockback tool.

left/right: Good knockback. Can lead into a dash attack at lower percentages, but not good combo potential overall.

Neutral A: Standard jab with multihit. I've found that I could jab, then head straight into a down smash before my opponent could react. Going with the multihit can set up some aerials upon knockback at lower percents.

Dash Attack: At lower percents, this move can definitely set Mewtwo up for the aerial combo i mentioned before. It can also lead into your Usmash if your opponent is not careful.


Smash attacks:

We're all assuming these are at lower percents here, folks.

Forward: Can set up for a dash attack or some aerials.

Up: Can lead into the double USmash or some aerial combos with Uair or Nair.

Down: Usually better for knockback, but much like USmash, can lead into dash attacks. Not great combo into aerials.



Anyways, that's just what I've noticed so far. I'm no expert yet, so if anything's wrong or you notice something better, feel free to comment. I look forward to playing him again when i get back home. I will say that he seems to be a terrible matchup against other Mewtwos.

 

[wannabe33]

Dreadful reading comprehension all around. Things I did not say:

-I'm "giving up" on Mewtwo
-I've "given up hope" on Mewtwo
-I'm "trusting the opinions of" mew2king without having played Mewtwo myself

Things I did say:

-Mewtwo's primary assets are wasted assets within the context of Smash 4's recovery mechanics
-Mewtwo has few strengths and many glaring weaknesses, including a nonexistent combo game
-Mewtwo will end up a firmly low-tier character

Of course I could be wrong. Maybe Mewtwo has very, very, very well-hidden potential. Maybe Mewtwo ends up with some great tech that is miraculously not removed via patch, as virtually all great techs have. Maybe Nintendo bothers to add custom moves for Mewtwo that end up broken.

Maybe. But probably not. I understand we all wanted Mewtwo to be viable- lord knows I did- but all signs point towards him being low on the tier list.

And please spare me this let-the-meta-develop nonsense. We aren't in October of last year. Smash 4's meta has been developing at a rapid pace for six months. We know the sort of playstyle it fosters and we know what sorts of options and strengths make a character viable. Mewtwo does not fit that mold.

 

[zephyrnereus]

I don't feel him being low. if anything a mid-low to mid tier, but he definitely feels like a more technical character. a lot of his moves have janky hitboxes that can really throw the enemy off when used correctly. I feel that you gotta know how to read opponents a lot with him.

 

[Linkdude74]

thought you guys might like to see this. Seems to work on characters that aren't short.
Edit: I had it at 100% because whe you don't stale it, it KOs

 

[GenG]

Mewtwo is really fun to use but compared against the rest of characters in Smash 4 he kind of sucks.

Things I like:
· Jab and dtilt are good combo starters and can chain into many things. Jab > Grab, Jab > Dtilt, Jab > fB, etc. are a possibility.
· Jab and dtilt are his fastest and most reliable attacks.
· Shadow Ball is really strong and decimates shields, and can be used uncharged for harassing.
· Air mobility is great for chases and gimping.
· His air attacks are good in air to air encounters because their range (tails) and speed (fair, dair).
· Uthrow is a kill move.
· Usmash is his best Smash. Can both rack damage at low % and kill at higher % by reading bad airdodges.
· Utilt is a good anti air and can override many attacks. Also hits at the front and at the back.
· Dash attack is strong, lasting hitbox and high priority that can beat other attacks.
· Good recovery, second jump is amazing.

Things I didn't like:
· He doesn't respond well to pressure at all. Fast characters own him.
· Other than Jab and Dtil, he has no safe pokes and has problems at getting close.
· Smashes are hard to land and have high cooldown.
· His air attacks aren't safe against grounded and steady enemies and cannot be used to pressure shields.
· Grab range is bad.
· Dthrow combo potential is very limited and very character / percentage dependant. Some characters may fall for a fair but others can jump back or DI to safety.
· He is very light and comboed easily.

Overall he feels like a very defensive and counterattacking character, with Shadow Ball as bait and fB for psychological warfare. He doesn't seem to excel at anything in particular.

 

[itsaxelol]

Dreadful reading comprehension all around. Things I did not say:

-I'm "giving up" on Mewtwo
-I've "given up hope" on Mewtwo
-I'm "trusting the opinions of" mew2king without having played Mewtwo myself

Things I did say:

-Mewtwo's primary assets are wasted assets within the context of Smash 4's recovery mechanics
-Mewtwo has few strengths and many glaring weaknesses, including a nonexistent combo game
-Mewtwo will end up a firmly low-tier character

Of course I could be wrong. Maybe Mewtwo has very, very, very well-hidden potential. Maybe Mewtwo ends up with some great tech that is miraculously not removed via patch, as virtually all great techs have. Maybe Nintendo bothers to add custom moves for Mewtwo that end up broken.

Maybe. But probably not. I understand we all wanted Mewtwo to be viable- lord knows I did- but all signs point towards him being low on the tier list.

And please spare me this let-the-meta-develop nonsense. We aren't in October of last year. Smash 4's meta has been developing at a rapid pace for six months. We know the sort of playstyle it fosters and we know what sorts of options and strengths make a character viable. Mewtwo does not fit that mold.

sorry to say guys, but this is pretty much right. not to mention the fact that he is even lighter than he was, which was a huge reason why he sucked so bad in melee

 

[Deleted member]

I'm just happy to have him.

I don't particularly care where he places on the Tier List, at the most basic level I'm just glad that I can play with F*CKING MEWTWO.



He'll always be my favorite in Smash regardless of his tier placement.

 

[---]

Took pictures of Mewtwo's entire moveset, will upload them when I get the chance later.

For now though, I've added all of Mewtwo's costumes to the OP.


Still looking for volunteers to help with the Moveset Guide. Let's make this a community effort.

 

[PD | Lewd]

I feel like using Confusion to attack and not just as a reflector is like attacking with Fox's Reflector: just because you can doesn't mean you should.
The only safe move (or followup of any sort, for that matter) seems to be either U-tilt or shield.

D-tilt or dash attack at low percents, yeah.

Most of our tail attacks seem to do more damage and knockback with the meatier part of the tail (nearer to Mewtwo).

Jab followups seem a little to slow to be 100% reliable.

Also, WHY IN THE SEVEN HELLS DIDN'T MY WII U INSTALL THE UPDATE AUTOMATICALLY?!

I've seen your signature with that art style of multiple smash characters all over the site, also I know this isn't really the place to ask but would you happen to have a source or where I could find some more of them?

 

[Edgeworth UK]

fB on the edge of the stage can lead to a down spike at higher %, might be able to DI into the ledge.

 

[lilinuyasha]

Took pictures of Mewtwo's entire moveset, will upload them when I get the chance later.

For now though, I've added all of Mewtwo's costumes to the OP.


Still looking for volunteers to help with the Moveset Guide. Let's make this a community effort.

I have a recording of my moveset analysis that I'll post when I get home in approximately an hour and a half.

 

[ORVO5]

Took pictures of Mewtwo's entire moveset, will upload them when I get the chance later.

For now though, I've added all of Mewtwo's costumes to the OP.


Still looking for volunteers to help with the Moveset Guide. Let's make this a community effort.

Let me know if you need anything specific, I'm not working today and I'll be doing nothing but playing Mewtwo!

 

[Sunnysunny]

Oy.
Ya'll.
Try going for jab1 into disable.
It's an incredible set up against non-fast fallers.
Fast fallers can shield inbetween but this makes for a damned good finisher if ya'll havn't been going for it yet.
Jab1, d-smash as well. Not a combo, but ****s safe and you can nuke shields down real well with it.

The cool down on d-smash btw is also really quick. So far i've been mixing it in as a "safe" KO move to catch dash ins. Between shadow ball, u-smash, u-throw confusion set ups, and jab1 - disable I literally have no problem KOing at all. It seems just like once you hit a certain damage threshhold verse mewtwo you get a plethora of KO options.

 

[lilinuyasha]

Can't recall if I mentioned the jab cancel, but I'll make sure to input that into disable. never thought of that. Good job.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Thanks.
Also.
I've KO'd so many people with this it's stupid....but.

Shadow ball has VERY quick cool down in comparison to lucarios.
Try throwing a REAL obvious one at decent distance against an opponent with a reflector, and when they reflect it, confusion it right back at them.

I'm sure later people won't fall for trying to reflect it, but if anything in the long run this means mewtwo realllly doesn' have to worry about reflectors if he's around mid-range.

 

[lilinuyasha]

Thanks.
Also.
I've KO'd so many people with this it's stupid....but.

Shadow ball has VERY quick cool down in comparison to lucarios.
Try throwing a REAL obvious one at decent distance against an opponent with a reflector, and when they reflect it, confusion it right back at them.

I'm sure later people won't fall for trying to reflect it, but if anything in the long run this means mewtwo realllly doesn' have to worry about reflectors if he's around mid-range.

I'll get more practice in here in about 30 minutes, but that being said, Mewtwo shows potential as a precision character. Much like Duck Hunt, you have to sit back and be patient and see what your opponent does, but he has the hits like a heavy character. He's a definitely unique playstyle as those are two very strange combinations.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

Just a heads up, but Mewtwo's recovery's gotten even better. Confusion has a distinctive hop to it that get you solid distance and a small amount of vertical distance. It's almost completely akin to the way Yoshi's Up B helps his recovery, though Mewtwo only gets one little hop.

Start implementing this into your recovery!

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Down tilt can also combo into disable on certain characters, which leads into pretty much anything you want. Mewtwo has a lot more potential than his haters give him credit for. He's kind of glass canon-y but if you rack damage with tilts and nair, it's pretty easy to set up and dtilt or jab into disable. From there you have time to do whatever you want as long as they're mid-high percent.

Also confusion seems to be great when used to cover your approach from beneath the ledge while recovering, the first use of confusion mid-air gives slight upward and forward momentum in the direction it was used and it cancels out most enemy attempts to ledge guard while giving mewtwo the opportunity to shield and then jab disable combo.

Edit: dtilt only combos into disable at low percents or if they fast fall at high percents

 

[EmperorDeDeDe]

It looks like mewtwo get's a little extra grab range with the dodge cancel grab.

 

[G-Guy]

Whoever says that Mewtwo has 2 useless special is simply wrong. Side B is extremely useful for recovery + it gives mewtwo a reflector.
remember that you are talking about a fighter with a kill-projectile and a reflector that comes out quickly. if you predict your opponent reflecting shadow ball, be one step ahead and reflect it back!

down B is dope, guys.
ONE hit from it at around 60% grant a fully charged side smash. OML

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Looks like somebody beat me to it, but in my first ten minutes, I find Jab 1 into disable to be pretty cool. Unfortunately, if they react with shield, it won't connect. Maybe Jab 1 to Confusion gets past this issue, but that's also a move that the opponent can double jump out of with ease, avoiding your followup.

 

[Teeb147]

Mewtwo's fair is really really good. Quick and strong, and decent range, with good enough low landing lag.

His tilts are his best moves, imo. I found the best tactics revolving around spacing with tilts. Up and down tilts can combo decently well. Though is forward tilt could be faster to turn around and get sometong, that does make him not very good against roll-dodging people.
His smashes are pretty good, they don't have too much lag to them, so you can afford to use them, and they are strong.

And yeh his jab to grab is decently good, gives more range to ko too, since his up throw can ko most characters at 120%. I did manage some smashes sometimes too, from jab, but I doubt it's true combo.. there is potential tho.

Apart from that, he's pretty ****ty. Too light, and is a not so good mixed bag, and I definitely think he can be mid-tier, if I consider the potential of his range.

 

[Deleted member 278362]

Confusion (SideB) into Up Tilt is a true combo. I only tried it against Captain Falcon and another Mewtwo.

 

[Aninymouse]

Confusion (SideB) into Up Tilt is a true combo. I only tried it against Captain Falcon and another Mewtwo.

No it isn't, sorry.

 

[Deleted member]

If you go by the game's registration of what a "combo" is, then almost all of Mewtwo's options true combo out of Confusion (i.e. they increase the combo counter if you are in training mode, Confusion ends with 8 so any option will push it to 9).

The issue is that these options aren't actually "true" combos in that the opponent isn't actually in hitstun such that they can jump or hit you out of Confusion while you're trying to follow up.

IMO, one of the better things to do with Confusion would actually be to go Confusion -> Shield in order to bait the aerial and get a nice shield grab.

 

[Deez1]

If you go by the game's registration of what a "combo" is, then almost all of Mewtwo's options true combo out of Confusion (i.e. they increase the combo counter if you are in training mode, Confusion ends with 8 so any option will push it to 9).

The issue is that these options aren't actually "true" combos in that the opponent isn't actually in hitstun such that they can jump or hit you out of Confusion while you're trying to follow up.

IMO, one of the better things to do with Confusion would actually be to go Confusion -> Shield in order to bait the aerial and get a nice shield grab.

Hi guys, I'd like to chat mewtwo as well. Yes, I have to noticed the training mode has said it is a true combo side b to smash, yet when you use it on a person, people can get out before the smash attack occurs

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

I think that Mewtwo's tail may have some sort of intangibility frames for attacks that use it.

I made a custom stage with a wall made of lava. Donkey Kong has intangibility frames on his Forward Tilt, so I tried swatting it with that and DK did not take damage or knockback. I tried the same thing with Mewtwo's Down, Forward, and Up Tilts and he took no damage or knockback as well. Other characters I don't think have intangibility on their tilts like Captain Falcon and R.O.B. took damage when they attacked the wall.

This requires a bit more testing but it looks like the gloomy old days of stupid tail hurtboxes may be over !_!

 

[Spirst]

Mewtwo's tail can actually be hit by things like Kirby's stone. I think it's a Z-axis thing but I'd need to look it over more since the tests have been a little weird.

 

[PixelEviolite]

Mewtwo's Side Special changes momentum and can be used a for recovery,
I'm also pretty sure It has frame(s) of invincibility.

 

[Wintry]

Here's what I've discovered from the lab and from playing FG. Sorry if there's any inaccuracies, but feel free to correct anything you guys see wrong.

Mewtwo has to get most of his damage from tilts, specifically dTilt and uTilt. dTilt is fast and recovers quickly which makes it a great poking tool, while uTilt is your go-to anti-air. I tend to want to play more of a ground game, but I think Mewtwo doesn't particularly have a very strong one.

Aerials, then. I'm somewhat split between using fAir or bAir to space - bAir has more range, but is harder to hit because of how weird the hitbox is on the edges (specifically the bottom edge). fAir is stronger (I think). uAir is pretty good but I get hit out of it by disjointed attacks. nAir is the most interesting to me - it comes out pretty dang fast. However the hitbox is VERY close to his body, which is less than ideal.

However, what I like to do every so often is attack the opponent offstage with it as they are making a low recovery. They will be dragged down with Mewtwo, and if they used their second jump already, could be fatal. Mewtwo on the other hand has pretty amazing recovery, so you can live. Dunno how viable it is, but it's definitely fun to pull off.

If I make the right read, I can get Up Smash out in time for someone to fall into it, but I tend to miss more than I hit (maybe... I just suck?!). However, it'll straight up miss small characters even point blank. For punishing, I like using down Smash, cause it looks cool. FSmash has better range though, and is probably better.

I like to use Side B and then shield to bait the aerial, then punish. I rarely use Down B, as it's easily punished, or will straight up whiff if they turn around (ugh). Shadow Balls are amazing though, and I spam the crap out of 'em. Teleport is pretty good, but it doesn't travel as far as I would like. Ah well.

Overall, I like playing him, but I think he's mid to upper-mid tier, as he can easily be overwhelmed by faster characters and has no reliable wake up option to me.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

You guys are going to faint anf be kissing sakurai for this


Turns out mewtwos shadow ball half changed, brace your selfs for hype


A half charged shadow ball can counter a fully charged lucario aura sphere (and lucarios damage level was 200%)

 

[Zylach]

Not planning to be a Mewtwo main or anything but I played him a lot today and, while he's not my style, I did enjoy the amount of shield damage Mewtwo's shadow ball does. I broke a friend's shield with two fully charged shadow balls.

 

[---]

Finished uploading picks of every move bar Dash/U-Tilt/B-Air. Will upload those tomorrow and start adding in damage% and start looking into Kill%s. If there's one thing I like about this flood is that the boring stuff is being done for us.


The write up of each move will start sometime within the next couple days as more research/techs/combos are discovered. Again, volunteers are always welcome, this is meant to be a community effort.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Some stuff about UpB:

Teleport has less ending lag if you appear on the ground than in the air. It is a much more solid option to do a teleport sideways than rolling. Has less ending lag and Mewtwos rolls are actually as awful as they've always been, even though they're not Melee slow they are bad by Smash4 standards. Teleporting into another spot in the ground seems to make up for this. You can control how far you teleport by angling it down if you don't want to go too far.

Short hop Teleporting on a platform diagonally towards it keeps the momentum horizontally (ie, as if you were wavedashing in Melee, except with Up B instead of air dodge). In Battlefield, you can teleport from one of the side platforms towards the other and you'll appear in the opposite one.

EDIT: Teleport seems to leave Mewtwo invincible close to when you activate it up to when he's about to appear. Definitely better to teleport than to roll.

I think Teleport could play a big part of Mewtwo's game, since his movement is meh. Teleport seems to be what could compensate for his otherwise mediocre movement, as long as he appears grounded and avoids appearing in the air and landing (lots of endlag)

 

[zephyrnereus]

something I found very useful for mewtwo is being able to use a reverse Utilt. Nair has such a strange hitbox and can sometimes send the opponent down and backwards, and this can combo into a reversed Utilt. I'm still having trouble with how Nair works though since sometimes it pops enemies up and sometimes it drags them down, either in front of behind.

also, there needs to be a list of what characters can be hit by jab disable and at what percents... this is probably his deadliest combo in the game, but it only seems to work on certain characters, usually the larger and heavier ones. (I know it works on falcon, but not on ike so far.)

 

[Wintry]

A half charged shadow ball can counter a fully charged lucario aura sphere (and lucarios damage level was 200%)

Ah, so the power of the Mind is stronger than the Power of Aura?

Brains beating brawn?

Mind over matter?

...okay, then.