Guide Mr. Fuji's Journal - Moveset Thread - Hiatus

[BigBossJelly]

I feel like Mewtwo's Nair is extremely good and will be a big part of his meta, I just haven't gotten used to the character himself.

 

[firecheetah]

as far as im concerned, mewtwo's nair is god. its one of his best out of shield options, it catches rolly players (really only applicable to FG but i play FG a lot so thats good for me!), little to no lag, and can combo into other attacks depending on where the enemy gets sent flying. i think the direction in which they get sent flying depends on which side of mewtwo's body they're at when the last hit occurs, but i have to test that more to be safe. i said it in another thread, but i have nair'd people across the entire stage before

also im not sure if this is something higher level characters can get out of, but his first jab might stun people long enough to throw a disable at them. it also forces them to face mewtwo if they happen to be facing away. again, maybe super hardcore players can dance out of it but i did it about a million times last night in for glory, and it always finished a stock okay apparently you can shield out of that but the first jab COULD guarantee a grab. getting grabbed my mewtwo can seal a stock, too, so its essentially the same deal

i think a smart mewtwo player should have a fully charged shadow ball on them at all times. its a very reliable move that does insane damage (i think like 25%), it charges very quickly, and a lot of his attacks can frame trap or bait opponents into getting hit by it.

i really like mewtwo. he may not be high tier but ive never cared about tiers anyway. hes fun to play and he makes for fast games. he does a **** TON of damage and he takes a **** TON of damage.hes a glass cannon, for sure, but if you dont play him like hes captain falcon i think you could really do some amazing things with him

 

[Smog Frog]

i call dibs on basic combos/ats. i'll get working on it when i get home from school.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Like most have been saying here, Mewtwo's jab is pretty good. Not as fast as Little Mac's or Fox's jab (in fact, it's pretty slow for a jab), but it has decent hitstun, disjointed range (which is very good for a jab), and does lead into grabs. Mix of good and bad here, it's a rewarding jab but has poor frame advantage on shield.

You can even jab again after one jab on some fast-fallers: jab -> jab works on a good number of the cast. Could lead up to a grab.

I think U-throw is more useful than D-throw with Mewtwo. U-throw doesn't necessarily combo into anything, but neither does D-throw as far as I could tell when playing him and watching the high and top level players use him on stream. U-throw puts pressure on opponents, however, since it sends them above him and Mewtwo's air movement and aerial range is no joke.

Shadow Claw: little startup, KO's, can catch air-dodges, and got a range buff from Melee <3

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Ah, so the power of the Mind is stronger than the Power of Aura?

Brains beating brawn?

Mind over matter?

...okay, then.

Looks like so

And it fits with pokemon too

Psychic beats fighting.


I remember in pokemon stadium 1 i 1 hit ko all of brunos pokemon with 1 hit.

 

[Deleted member]

Like most have been saying here, Mewtwo's jab is pretty good. Not as fast as Little Mac's or Fox's jab, but it has decent hitstun, disjointed range (which is very good for a jab), and does lead into grabs.

You can even jab again after one jab on some fast-fallers: jab -> jab works on a good number of the cast. Could lead up to a grab.

I think U-throw is more useful than D-throw with Mewtwo. U-throw doesn't necessarily combo into anything, but neither does D-throw as far as I could tell when playing him and watching the high and top level players use him on stream. U-throw puts pressure on opponents, however, since it sends them above him and Mewtwo's air movement and aerial range is no joke.

Shadow Claw: little startup, KO's, can catch air-dodges, and got a range buff from Melee <3

I really feel like Dthrow really doesn't have any practical applications relative to Mewtwo's other throws since its knockback is notably lower than his other throws and alongside that, he can't make use of the lower knockback (to follow up with aerials or what have you) because of the lag on the throw.

I do wish opponents weren't so prone to fall out of the infinite of his Jab though, because I do sometimes use that and they fall out before the last hit connects.

I don't know about everyone else but usually if I get Jab -> Jab I typically go to shield, the jab typically lifts the opponent off the ground so you won't get "counter" grabbed and if you get lucky you can catch a baited aerial if the opponent is trying to mash out and (hopefully) get a free shield grab.

 

[Marigi174]

Mewtwo takes a dump on defensive playstyles. No: seriously this thing f*cks them over. It has a very strong matchup vs. the vast majority of defensive characters.

Also, a fully charged Shadow Ball can "combo" out of so many moves - namely d-throw. While it does require you to read how your opponent acts, Down Throw-->Shadow Ball vs. opponents who tech away/on the spot or miss the tech after the down throw take a huge chunk from this "combo".

Also, if you're opponent doesn't jump after a forward throw, Shadow Ball is a great option for gaining KOs from around 80% upwards. This isn't that good in a serious match, but vs. the AI or a friend who isn't very good at the gameit is a great option for taking stocks at fairly early percents.

Looks like so

And it fits with pokemon too

Psychic beats fighting.


I remember in pokemon stadium 1 i 1 hit ko all of brunos pokemon with 1 hit.

But Lucario is part steel, making it neutral to psychic.

 

[DavemanCozy]

RAR B-airs are the bees knees with Mewtwo. The move has startup, but that range makes up for it.

I think Meta Knight and Shulk are gonna give him trouble.

 

[PyroTakun]

Don't know if it was mentioned anywhere but Confusion goes through shields.

Might make it more viable than we originally thought.

 

[Spirst]

Yep, that's the case with all command grabs Just need to find ways to force the shield to go up in the first place.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Confusion is loldumb against characters that don't have multiple jumps. Just use Confusion, force a DJ, have a Shadow Ball ready to either landing trap or slide in with U-Smash. If they don't want to jump out of Confusion, get ready to punish them with some smash attack. If they think they can attack you, unless you're fighting Marth, just pivot F-Smash or Shadow Ball.

Does OoS Disable work on taller characters?

 

[Deleted member]

Confusion can reflect Falco's Reflector if anyone didn't know.

 

[---]

Just as a heads up, but writing won't start for another couple days. Mewtwo just came out after all (and maybe still in a beta form based on no custom), and some people haven't even gotten their codes yet, let alone buying the DLC.

Also claiming sections in full is something that will be avoided (Frame/Hitbox stuff is it's own thing/thread) as there are already multiple people who are interested in writing about the same thing. If there's a move/subject you feel very knowledge-able about make it known in the eventual PM, but for now the M2 board should probably be solely focusing on research rather than summarizing.

Ex. The MM board guide wasn't completed until about 2-3 months after release.

 

[G-Guy]

for the throws, I have to agree that dthrow rarely has its uses. In terms of damage, f-throw is always superior, while up and back throw should be saved for KOs.
dthrow is for you risk takers out there who want to play the predicting-game

also, I can not say this often enough, go for disable whenever you see the chance! it's a free smash attack and a free stock at around 70%, allowing for fully charged side smashes!

i also don't see why people bash side B so much, it's amazing! a recovery tool + a reflector all in one package? sure, using it in combat is kinda dumb, but I tend to not use it that way, anyhow.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Confusion is loldumb against characters that don't have multiple jumps. Just use Confusion, force a DJ, have a Shadow Ball ready to either landing trap or slide in with U-Smash. If they don't want to jump out of Confusion, get ready to punish them with some smash attack. If they think they can attack you, unless you're fighting Marth, just pivot F-Smash or Shadow Ball.

Does OoS Disable work on taller characters?

Did you watch the trailer? He did it to ganondorf hes almot the tallest character.

 

[Chiroz]

Confusion is loldumb against characters that don't have multiple jumps. Just use Confusion, force a DJ, have a Shadow Ball ready to either landing trap or slide in with U-Smash. If they don't want to jump out of Confusion, get ready to punish them with some smash attack. If they think they can attack you, unless you're fighting Marth, just pivot F-Smash or Shadow Ball.

Does OoS Disable work on taller characters?

Marth isn't the only character that can punish you, many can. Even Mewtwo himself can DI towards you (inwards and downwards) and F-Air you BEFORE you can even put up a shield.

Confusion should not be used like this unless you know your opponent's char has no viable options to punish you.

That said once we get frame data on Side-B we should make a thread with a list of every single character'a possible options to punish Side-B when it lands.

I think it should be it's own thread as it will have a lot of information and text. Also I think we could also include D-Throw into this thread as well since it works SO similar to Side-B (it's an incredibly good setup tool but your opponent is able to act out before you. Knowing which characters CAN'T punish Down-Throw will give Mewtwo a whole new combo game against them).

@ ---




Also disable cares not for sizes. I haven't tested on crouching characters but it definitely hits all chars in standing animation.

 

[---]

Marth isn't the only character that can punish you, many can. Even Mewtwo himself can DI towards you (inwards and downwards) and F-Air you BEFORE you can even put up a shield.

Confusion should not be used like this unless you know your opponent's char has no viable options to punish you.

That said once we get frame data on Side-B we should make a thread with a list of every single character'a possible options to punish Side-B when it lands.

I think it should be it's own thread as it will have a lot of information and text.

@ ---

Also disable cares not for sizes. I haven't tested on crouching characters but it definitely hits all chars in standing animation.

If a move has enough there to warrant a discussion and that the OP is well made/read, by all means. Will probably ask the user who made the thread to give a quick summary for the community guide as well if the above criteria is met.

 

[Chiroz]

If a move has enough there to warrant a discussion and that the OP is well made/read, by all means. Will probably ask the user who made the thread to give a quick summary for the community guide as well if the above criteria is met.

Once we get accurate frame data on Side-B/D-Throw (plus all of the cast's aerials since patch might change some frame data) I can probably do the thread myself, unless someone else wants to.

 

[simpleglitch]

Confusion can reflect Falco's Reflector if anyone didn't know.

I have a friend who mains Falco (or used to in brawl). I don't know if that will actually help the matchup at all... but that fact makes me smile.

 

[---]

Pictures are finished (3DS pics are easier to work with/smaller). Also added basic damage info for each move. Will take a look into Kill%s when I get the time/find a good way to measure them.

Will start the project PM within the next day or so/when there's enough for a write up. Anyone is welcome to help out.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

How to not bounce off the side of the stage with Teleport

A few of you may have found yourself recovering with Mewtwo trying to climb against the walls of the stage only to miss the edge and seemingly "bounce" off the stage walls. To prevent this, you need to be facing towards the ledge. Climbing up a wall with Teleport and facing towards the ledge will have you automatically snap to the ledge. Face away and you'll be flung away. If you intend to climb up the stage, change your direction with a Side B or a turn around special Shadow Ball (you cannot turn around special or B reverse disable fsr).

Use Jump Cancelled Up Smashes instead of running Up Smashes

A Jump Cancelled Up Smash goes twice the length of a typical running Up Smash. You should all be doing this instead. If you don't know how to perform a jump cancelled Up Smash, you essentially input an Up Smash before the 'squat' animation of your jump ends.

For those unfamiliar, the inputs for a non sliding jump cancelled Up Smash (start here) are:

Hold , -quickly->

For a sliding jump cancelled Up Smash (what you want to learn):

,, -quickly->

 

[Breadloaf]

Food for thought you can reflect pikachu's lightning.

 

[DavemanCozy]

My bad. I mixed my data up. Teleport is slower than rolling, and it also is the one that covers my distance.

Ignore everything I've been saying about teleports speed, basically.

Grounded Teleport is just more unpredictable than rolling and covers more distance, at the exchange of a bit more lag at the end. My apologies for getting these two mixed up.

Edit: and I think Short hop airdodges are the best alternative to rolling

 

[Bear Eyez]

Yep, that's the case with all command grabs Just need to find ways to force the shield to go up in the first place.

In most cases wouldn't it be better to just normal grab anyways rather than Side B?

 

[Spirst]

In most cases wouldn't it be better to just normal grab anyways rather than Side B?

At higher percents, I'd say yeah since you can get an uthrow from it to end a stock. At lower percents, I wouldn't be so sure. Mewtwo's throws do at most 10.5% with no real followups. Confusion does 9% and can be escaped but it can also lead to followups with fsmash, fair, shadow ball (which totals 28% & 22% & 34% respectively), etc if the other player doesn't react appropriately or you read the reaction. You sacrifice a little bit of guaranteed percent for a potential followup to add a lot more damage on. It fits into the whole "high risk - high reward" aspect of Mewtwo's character. Confusion also has a little more range compared to the standing grab so there's that too.

 

[Bear Eyez]

At higher percents, I'd say yeah since you can get an uthrow from it to end a stock. At lower percents, I wouldn't be so sure. Mewtwo's throws do at most 10.5% with no real followups. Confusion does 9% and can be escaped but it can also lead to followups with fsmash, fair, shadow ball (which totals 28% & 22% & 34% respectively), etc if the other player doesn't react appropriately or you read the reaction. You sacrifice a little bit of guaranteed percent for a potential followup to add a lot more damage on. It fits into the whole "high risk - high reward" aspect of Mewtwo's character. Confusion also has a little more range compared to the standing grab so there's that too.

I've been looking around. I find it tough to find some of the combos I didn't realize you could follow side B up with anything. I thought they came out of it before you did (Outside of the low platform tech stuff) Mind you I am fairly new to the boards, is there an easy way to filter through it all?

 

[Spirst]

I've been looking around. I find it tough to find some of the combos I didn't realize you could follow side B up with anything. I thought they came out of it before you did (Outside of the low platform tech stuff) Mind you I am fairly new to the boards, is there an easy way to filter through it all?

It's correct that they're able to react out of hitstun before the confusion animation ends for Mewtwo so he has no guaranteed followups. Keep that in mind always since if you try following with the same thing, you will likely get punished. What I do is throw it out a couple times and try to internalize their reaction pattern to exploit it later. If they immediately airdodge, they suffer airdodge lag at which point you can follow up with something else safely. If they jump, you can try following them with fair. If they tech, you can try shadow ball to follow them if they tech away or dtilt combo starter/something else if they tech in place. You have to be smart with the move.

As for the question, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If you mean finding a list of potential followups & how to make use of the move vs each character, that doesn't exist yet I'm afraid.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

After playing some matches online, I find that heavy characters are probably Mewtwo's bets in terms of MU's tbh.

 

[Bear Eyez]

It's correct that they're able to react out of hitstun before the confusion animation ends for Mewtwo so he has no guaranteed followups. Keep that in mind always since if you try following with the same thing, you will likely get punished. What I do is throw it out a couple times and try to internalize their reaction pattern to exploit it later. If they immediately airdodge, they suffer airdodge lag at which point you can follow up with something else safely. If they jump, you can try following them with fair. If they tech, you can try shadow ball to follow them if they tech away or dtilt combo starter/something else if they tech in place. You have to be smart with the move.

As for the question, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If you mean finding a list of potential followups & how to make use of the move vs each character, that doesn't exist yet I'm afraid.

Tech like on a platform or they can tech on the ground?

 

[Spirst]

Tech like on a platform or they can tech on the ground?

Ground. Tech on platforms leads you to things like utilt or usmash.

 

[Bear Eyez]

Ground. Tech on platforms leads you to things like utilt or usmash.

Ok thank you, I must sound like a scrub haha

 

[Spirst]

Ok thank you, I must sound like a scrub haha

Nah, it's fine. Everyone's learning and asking questions is a good way to start.

Unrelated: On Charizard at least (haven't tried it on too many others yet), fthrow initial toss places him on the platform above you on BF/Halberd transformation and lets him shield before the shadow balls come out. That's...nice.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Guys! I found something neat. On Battlefield, if you use Confusion on certain characters, they'll fall on top of the 2 lower platforms. It's really hard to tech this (if they don't jump out, that is). So you can read their roll into Upsmash.

 

[Spirst]

Yeah, I remember that being discussed somewhere on this board. Mewtwo seems to do pretty well on platformed stages because of that, ledge cancel stuff, and usmash/utilt being good platform pokes. I usually hate BF for my other characters but it might be good for Mewtwo.

 

[Chiroz]

Ok, I was FINALLY able to get some time in the lab today (about 2 hours), here's some of the things I "found out".

I am fairly certain both D-Tilt and U-Tilt have 4 different hitboxes. For now I will call them Trunk Sourspot, Trunk Sweetspot, Tipper Sourspot and Tipper Sweetspot. I think I now know what to follow each hitbox with when I hit confirm.

Both D-Tilt and U-Tilt Tipper Sourspot can't be followed up, knocks them really far in a horizontal trajectory. This is the one you should be spacing with as it's a disjointed hitbox.

U-Tilt Trunk Sourspot is a true combo into U-Smash at all %s. It's godly.

One of the 2 remaining U-Tilt hitboxes should be followed up with another U-Tilt or an N-Air at almost all %s. The other U-Tilt hitbox is a true combo into both N-Air and B-Air at basically all relevant %s anyways but I find B-Air to be muuuch better as it sets them up perfectly to allow you to do a wall of pain afterwards.

Which reminds me, B-Air walls of pain are a thing. It's awesome. Rising B-Air is a true combo at many %s on to DJ Rising B-Air (You can then B-Air again while fast falling but it isn't a true combo, it can be dodged).

The other tipper D-Tilt hitbox knocks opponents too far away for any real chasing but in a different angles from the first tipper hitbox. You can chase them to create pressure and maybe bait a reaction attack or dodge, and then punish accordingly. Just remember not to go ham as your opponent will have ample time to react.

The other 2 D-Tilt hitboxes (the trunk ones) true combo into a lot of **** including N-Air, U-Air, SH/FJ Shadow Balls (this one is not registered as "true" in training though) but unless it's kill % I prefer to go for the AWESOME F-Air strings (If it's kill % I'll go for a shadow ball which at least on level 9 CPUs has never missed, need to test on a human as it doesn't register in training as a true combo).

D-Tilt sets people up perfectly for F-Air strings. If you need an example think of Sheik's down-throw to F-Air chains and do EXACTLY the same thing (only with Down-Tilt). I can normally do 3-4 F-Airs depending on my opponent and his current %, I can also finish the F-Air with confusion if my opponent is low enough when the combo is about to end (the very last F-Air). I normally follow this confusion with another F-Air but this part is punisheable so do not repeat it in a match, save it for a surprise kill or something.

A very safe follow up to confusion us actually aerial disable, it's fast has great range (so you don't have to "wait" to be in range you can just intantly do it) and pops them away from you so they can't punish you. Or you could just DI away after the Confusion, wait for their reaction and punish their reaction.



Hopes this helps some of you :3.



PS: I feel like Confusion and D-Throw are actually good tools people are just underestimating because they don't guarantee combos. Both of these moves create huge pressure for your opponent and DEMAND some kind of reaction from him, whether it's an attack or a dodge or a jump. Reading said reaction can lead to very fruitful outcomes for Mewtwo.

It basically forces a minigame within the game, a minigame of who can guess each other's reaction correctly, Mewtwo or his opponent. As a Mewtwo player you should show that you are smarter and that you can punish your opponents reaction correctly .

 

[---]

PS: I feel like Confusion and D-Throw are actually good tools people are just underestimating because they don't guarantee combos. Both of these moves create huge pressure for your opponent and DEMAND some kind of reaction from him, whether it's an attack or a dodge or a jump. Reading said reaction can lead to very fruitful outcomes for Mewtwo.

Been watching some of Shofu's videos, seems that D-Throw combos into Shadow Ball, seems guaranteed at lower percents, and forces an air dodge into the ground (D-Tilt follow up?) or double jump on most opponents at higher percents.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Speaking of Dtilt, is it possible to connect any of Dtilt's hit boxes that aren't tipper sweetspot from a Dthrow and 0%?

Cause whenever I go for a Dtilt follow up from a 0% DThrow, I seem to only be able to connect tipper sweetspot for some reason.

Is this just me or can anyone else connect the other parts of the tail?

 

[Chiroz]

Been watching some of Shofu's videos, seems that D-Throw combos into Shadow Ball, seems guaranteed at lower percents, and forces an air dodge into the ground (D-Tilt follow up?) or double jump on most opponents at higher percents.

I thibj D-Throw SB can be jumped or dodged by the opponent, although I think you said that already (I am not sure, I haven't tested Down-Throw thorougly yet). Air dodging causes your opponent to go into air dodge lag and jumping gives Mewtwo the opportunity to start a juggle but you have to sacrifice a Shadow Ball for it! Down-Tilt Trunk hitbox to SH/FJ SB seems to be guaranteed from what I have been testing and I've been using it as a kill combo until I see someone dodge it.



The way it works is the following, SB stops your second jump momentum but it doesn't stop your SH or FJ momentum, in fact it makes it faster. So if you jump and instantly release Shadow Ball as soon as you press jump then Mewtwo sort of releases Shadow Ball at the peak of his height always. Pretty neat.

Speaking of Dtilt, is it possible to connect any of Dtilt's hit boxes that aren't tipper sweetspot from a Dthrow and 0%?

Cause whenever I go for a Dtilt follow up from a 0% DThrow, I seem to only be able to connect tipper sweetspot for some reason.

Is this just me or can anyone else connect the other parts of the tail?

I have not been able to but I haven't tried that yet, haven't really tested D-Throw possibilities yet to be honest. Maybe a perfect pivot down tilt? I feel like perfect pivots might be a thing for Mewtwo. He slides so much with them and Down-Tilt has such good range it can help you space inmensely.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Nair -> Grab -> Pummel x3 -> DThrow -> Fair

I can't even replicate this.


Crap.

Gorls is it true Mewtwo is slow, awkward and bad?

How long until the bandwagon wears off and no one uses her?

Ew.

Also, give it a week or two.

 

[Spirst]

Ew.

Also, give it a week or two.

A week or two and then public release happens so it'll be another week or two. Then Lucas will be the new shiny coin and everyone will be a Lucas main/have a pocket Lucas.