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Moveset Tier List
- Thread starter Z1GMA
- Start date
Super_Smasher6
Smash Cadet
Bottom:
Down smash! Can't kill anything with that...
Down smash! Can't kill anything with that...
Top (wide utility/can kill reliably)
FTilt
Aerudo
BAir
High (good utility/has kill potential)
DTilt
Gerudo
Wizkick
Jab
NAir
UAir
USmash
Mid (circumstantial utility/has concrete flaws)
Dash attack
DAir
FAir
UTilt
WP
FSmash
Low (rare utility/low KO potential/
DSmash
Bottom (lol)
Dark Dive
I can say right now that, having played a REALLY good ZSS last night, Ganon's biggest problem remains: shields. That being said, it's only by virtue of Aerudo that Ganon can overcome shieldy characters. He has to dance around just outside of Aerudo range and try to either go for it, or use it as bait for a shield drop. Definitely his best non-kill move. I wanted to put FAir higher, but it really doesn't kill much earlier than other things, and I'd be preaching to the choir if I listed what's wrong with it.
FTilt
Aerudo
BAir
High (good utility/has kill potential)
DTilt
Gerudo
Wizkick
Jab
NAir
UAir
USmash
Mid (circumstantial utility/has concrete flaws)
Dash attack
DAir
FAir
UTilt
WP
FSmash
Low (rare utility/low KO potential/
DSmash
Bottom (lol)
Dark Dive
I can say right now that, having played a REALLY good ZSS last night, Ganon's biggest problem remains: shields. That being said, it's only by virtue of Aerudo that Ganon can overcome shieldy characters. He has to dance around just outside of Aerudo range and try to either go for it, or use it as bait for a shield drop. Definitely his best non-kill move. I wanted to put FAir higher, but it really doesn't kill much earlier than other things, and I'd be preaching to the choir if I listed what's wrong with it.
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Top: UAir, Dash Attack, FAir, FTilt
High: Jab, Grab, Gerudo, NAir, Aerial Wizkick, DTilt
Mid: DAir, BAir, Aerial Gerudo, Wizard Foot, USmash, FSmash
Low: Dark Dive, UTilt, Warlock Punch
Bottom: DSmash
While I agree with you Verm on what you said about shield, Aerudo would be a horrible choice for approaching shields or even baiting. It is a good surprise attack and can work on some characters and players better than others, but using dash attack (which has a small frame of super armour) and just baiting the opponent out with shields, rolls and dodging in general would be a much better choice.
And FAir is a wonderful move. It may not kill as early, but it's spacing, speed, and power makes it a killer move. It should usually land you the kill or land your opponent in a position of gimp. But FAir is more of a damaging move this game, use it as spacing, racking up damage, and following up with other moves.
High: Jab, Grab, Gerudo, NAir, Aerial Wizkick, DTilt
Mid: DAir, BAir, Aerial Gerudo, Wizard Foot, USmash, FSmash
Low: Dark Dive, UTilt, Warlock Punch
Bottom: DSmash
While I agree with you Verm on what you said about shield, Aerudo would be a horrible choice for approaching shields or even baiting. It is a good surprise attack and can work on some characters and players better than others, but using dash attack (which has a small frame of super armour) and just baiting the opponent out with shields, rolls and dodging in general would be a much better choice.
And FAir is a wonderful move. It may not kill as early, but it's spacing, speed, and power makes it a killer move. It should usually land you the kill or land your opponent in a position of gimp. But FAir is more of a damaging move this game, use it as spacing, racking up damage, and following up with other moves.
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Shogger
Smash Apprentice
Top: Uair, Dash, Ftilt
High: Wizkick, Gerudo, Jab, Dtilt, Bair, Air Wizkick
Mid: Fair, Usmash, Fsmash, Fair, Aerudo, Grab
Low: Tombstone (Dair), Warlock Punch, Dark Dive
Bottom: Utilt, Dsmash
I put Fair and Aerudo lower than you guys because I haven't really begun to incorporate them heavily into my play. I probably need to just get used to using Fair more since it's undeniably improved. What would you say is so good about Aerial Gerudo? I feel like it's too hard to land for the risk if you miss it. Also, it's punishable on hit for certain characters IIRC (Jiggs being the prime example.)
High: Wizkick, Gerudo, Jab, Dtilt, Bair, Air Wizkick
Mid: Fair, Usmash, Fsmash, Fair, Aerudo, Grab
Low: Tombstone (Dair), Warlock Punch, Dark Dive
Bottom: Utilt, Dsmash
I put Fair and Aerudo lower than you guys because I haven't really begun to incorporate them heavily into my play. I probably need to just get used to using Fair more since it's undeniably improved. What would you say is so good about Aerial Gerudo? I feel like it's too hard to land for the risk if you miss it. Also, it's punishable on hit for certain characters IIRC (Jiggs being the prime example.)
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A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Top: D-tilt, Dash Attack, U-air
High: N-air, B-air, F-air, Wizard's Foot (grounded), Flame Choke (both versions)
Mid: U-smash, F-tilt, Jab, F-smash, Wizard's Foot (aerial))
Low: D-smash, D-air, U-tilt, Dark Dive, Warlock Punch
Personally me, I think all of Ganon's moves are useful. Of course, the core of his game is D-tilt and Dash attack. Those two moves by themselves force your opponent to play carefully against Ganon when he's able to outrange a lot of characters at midrange. Of course, the hard part is sneaking past that mid range zone so you can get grabs after they start playing carefully.
U-air is the same as before and works in all the situations we love it in. N-air is mostly the same move as before as well, except it got more practical for edgeguarding due to increased damage on the 2nd hit. SH-N-air is also a bit underrated for covering the options that autocanceled D-air used to while being Ganon's best move for attempting shield pokes. B-air and F-air aren't much different from Brawl, minus F-air is noticeably less unsafe to space with in this game.
To me, Jab and F-tilt are somewhat "necessary evils" in the sense that Ganondorf needs to use these moves to round out the threat of his close range options as you need these moves to check short hopped aerial pressure from enemies, but by themselves overall they're not the safest options to pick for pressuring your opponents. Similarly, aerial Wizkick is a move you need to use, but one you don't want to actually rely on. Ganondorf lacks safe landing options, and something like aerial Wizkick at the very least is able to force your enemies to play carefully when juggling Ganondorf.
I hear a lot of badmouthing for D-smash, and yeah. It's mostly really bad, when 90% of the time you'd rather D-tilt or DA. The thing about D-smash though is iirc it has more range than D-tilt, and does twice as much damage (about 23-24% in this game). It's overall a good damage building whiff punish for those situations where say, someone is wide open after landing on stage with their Up-B. D-smash is a better onstage punish than D-air, which no longer can be autocanceled onstage and does less damage than before. Consider using D-smash after powershields in situations where F-tilt won't kill. The damage alone makes it an option.
High: N-air, B-air, F-air, Wizard's Foot (grounded), Flame Choke (both versions)
Mid: U-smash, F-tilt, Jab, F-smash, Wizard's Foot (aerial))
Low: D-smash, D-air, U-tilt, Dark Dive, Warlock Punch
Personally me, I think all of Ganon's moves are useful. Of course, the core of his game is D-tilt and Dash attack. Those two moves by themselves force your opponent to play carefully against Ganon when he's able to outrange a lot of characters at midrange. Of course, the hard part is sneaking past that mid range zone so you can get grabs after they start playing carefully.
U-air is the same as before and works in all the situations we love it in. N-air is mostly the same move as before as well, except it got more practical for edgeguarding due to increased damage on the 2nd hit. SH-N-air is also a bit underrated for covering the options that autocanceled D-air used to while being Ganon's best move for attempting shield pokes. B-air and F-air aren't much different from Brawl, minus F-air is noticeably less unsafe to space with in this game.
To me, Jab and F-tilt are somewhat "necessary evils" in the sense that Ganondorf needs to use these moves to round out the threat of his close range options as you need these moves to check short hopped aerial pressure from enemies, but by themselves overall they're not the safest options to pick for pressuring your opponents. Similarly, aerial Wizkick is a move you need to use, but one you don't want to actually rely on. Ganondorf lacks safe landing options, and something like aerial Wizkick at the very least is able to force your enemies to play carefully when juggling Ganondorf.
I hear a lot of badmouthing for D-smash, and yeah. It's mostly really bad, when 90% of the time you'd rather D-tilt or DA. The thing about D-smash though is iirc it has more range than D-tilt, and does twice as much damage (about 23-24% in this game). It's overall a good damage building whiff punish for those situations where say, someone is wide open after landing on stage with their Up-B. D-smash is a better onstage punish than D-air, which no longer can be autocanceled onstage and does less damage than before. Consider using D-smash after powershields in situations where F-tilt won't kill. The damage alone makes it an option.
I understand your rationale, Kalm. But having two players yesterday that knew the MU really well, a Sheik and a ZSS, my only recourse was Aerudo. All they had to do to shut down every approach I had was hold their shield. They never spotdodged or rolled out of fear. Not because I feel I was inadequate in my intimidation tactics, but because they obviously knew Ganon can't do much against shields. And as for Sheik and ZSS in particular, run-up-shielding definitely can work against characters who can't keep Ganon out that well, but Sheik, for example, can pressure our shield and grab faster than any of our moves come out. So baiting with shields is asking to eat one against a sharp Sheik.
Only when I began to Aerudo did they begin dropping shield, which allowed me to mix them up. In other words, as a general rule of thumb, you're right. But in cases when a character such as Sheik doesn't leave openings with dodges and rolls, Aerudo/Gerudo are the nutcrackers.
Only when I began to Aerudo did they begin dropping shield, which allowed me to mix them up. In other words, as a general rule of thumb, you're right. But in cases when a character such as Sheik doesn't leave openings with dodges and rolls, Aerudo/Gerudo are the nutcrackers.
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Shogger
Smash Apprentice
So, you just come at them with a short hop Aerudo? What advantage does it have versus ground Gerudo?
Yeah, that's the idea. That, or run away, then do a reverse Aerudo if they're holding their shield. Aerudo's faster, and when you're airborne as Ganon, you generally have better movement options. It gives the opponent more to think about, and is harder to react to because of that.
Like I was saying earlier, it's unfortunate, but against a really cheeky ZSS or Sheik like I fought against last night (who, I should maybe mention, refused to approach), who don't roll or spotdodge at all, Aerudo/Gerudo is the one tool that lets Ganon compete in the rock-paper-scissors game. It's the hinge upon which his yomi game pivots against stalwartly patient and knowledgeable players.
The thing was, that they both clearly were willing to eat the Aerudos. When I began reading their techs, they softened up a little bit, but generally, they still were clearly willing to take the Gerudo and tech it than risk getting punished for rolls and the like.
Like I was saying earlier, it's unfortunate, but against a really cheeky ZSS or Sheik like I fought against last night (who, I should maybe mention, refused to approach), who don't roll or spotdodge at all, Aerudo/Gerudo is the one tool that lets Ganon compete in the rock-paper-scissors game. It's the hinge upon which his yomi game pivots against stalwartly patient and knowledgeable players.
The thing was, that they both clearly were willing to eat the Aerudos. When I began reading their techs, they softened up a little bit, but generally, they still were clearly willing to take the Gerudo and tech it than risk getting punished for rolls and the like.
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A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I take it getting standing grabs on a ZSS or Sheik is ridiculously hard. Because that WOULD be preferable due to the amazing positional advantage you can get from throws.
Demon-King Tier:
Uair, Destroyer of Worlds (aka "the only reason you are playing this character instead of Little Mac")
Top Tier:
Wizard's Dropkick
Wizard's Dropkick (aerial)
Flame Choke
High Tier:
F-smash
Bair
D-tilt
Mid Tier:
F-tilt
Flame Choke (aerial)
Grab (all)
U-smash
Fair
Low Tier:
Nair
Dair
Dark Fists (Up-B 2)
Jab
SH dair
D-smash
Bottom Tier:
Warlock "Better Than Nothing" Blade
Joke Tier:
U-tilt
*****
I would trade any uair in the game for Ganon's, full stop.
I want to explore the viable usage of Dark Fists OoS. It seems like it hits on about frame 12. It's no Mario, but it's a decent option?
I miss SH dair.
Uair, Destroyer of Worlds (aka "the only reason you are playing this character instead of Little Mac")
Top Tier:
Wizard's Dropkick
Wizard's Dropkick (aerial)
Flame Choke
High Tier:
F-smash
Bair
D-tilt
Mid Tier:
F-tilt
Flame Choke (aerial)
Grab (all)
U-smash
Fair
Low Tier:
Nair
Dair
Dark Fists (Up-B 2)
Jab
SH dair
D-smash
Bottom Tier:
Warlock "Better Than Nothing" Blade
Joke Tier:
U-tilt
*****
I would trade any uair in the game for Ganon's, full stop.
I want to explore the viable usage of Dark Fists OoS. It seems like it hits on about frame 12. It's no Mario, but it's a decent option?
I miss SH dair.
Yeah, it's pretty dangerous. They can both easily dance in and out of range of even his ranged attacks, so standing grabs apply to them as punishments almost exclusively.
I feel like you have drastically overrated Tap Jump.
I don't understand how people don't use tap jump.
Shogger
Smash Apprentice
(unless /s) it's just easier to not muck up Uair or Utilt (not that you'll be Utilting much as Ganon anyway...)
I feel Uair'ing is easier and "faster" with it turned off. Are there any pros to having it turned on?
Dr. Krumm
Smash Apprentice
Top
Down-Tilt
Forward-Tilt
Jab
Uair
Gerudo
High
Wizards Foot
Fair
Bair
Dash-Attack
Nair
Mid
Dair
Throws
Up-Smash
Forwards-Smash
Low
Dark Dive
Down-Smash
Up-tilt
Warlock Punch
I rated the moves after how much I use them not how good/bad I think they are, because according to me, Ganon has no "bad" moves. The moves that are higher up the list are high because of the playstyle I use. Since I like play patiently and bait things I usually go for the quick punishes, which in this case would be tilts, jab, u-air to read jumps. Wizards foot, and the ariels and dash attack is usually for reads or follow ups and the mid/low tier I use very sparingly for surprising opponents with a hard hitting move, when I can read them like a book or when I have time to land a hard punish.
.... and I have actually landed Up-tilt, a number of times. Don't be hatin' on the Heel of Evil.
Down-Tilt
Forward-Tilt
Jab
Uair
Gerudo
High
Wizards Foot
Fair
Bair
Dash-Attack
Nair
Mid
Dair
Throws
Up-Smash
Forwards-Smash
Low
Dark Dive
Down-Smash
Up-tilt
Warlock Punch
I rated the moves after how much I use them not how good/bad I think they are, because according to me, Ganon has no "bad" moves. The moves that are higher up the list are high because of the playstyle I use. Since I like play patiently and bait things I usually go for the quick punishes, which in this case would be tilts, jab, u-air to read jumps. Wizards foot, and the ariels and dash attack is usually for reads or follow ups and the mid/low tier I use very sparingly for surprising opponents with a hard hitting move, when I can read them like a book or when I have time to land a hard punish.
.... and I have actually landed Up-tilt, a number of times. Don't be hatin' on the Heel of Evil.
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Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Going back to this list after gaining more experience knowledge, I will keep it the same with only one change.
Wizard foot I will move up from mid to high. It's extremely speedier this game and can help you follow your opponent after knocking them away, and I also seem to be surprising and punishing rolls with it much more efficiently now than I could in Brawl.
It's a good Ganon move.
SaltyKracka
Smash Lord
You might be punishing rolls with it more here because so many people are now rolling 24/7.
It's kinda frustrating online, where you don't really have the space to sit down and predict them.
It's kinda frustrating online, where you don't really have the space to sit down and predict them.
Xinc
Smash Lord
Top
Down-Tilt
Forward-Tilt
Jab
Uair
Grounded Choke
DOWN THROW => IT COMBOS
High
WizKick
Dair
Bair
Dash-Attack
Nair
Mid
Aerial Wizkick
Other Throws
uSmash
FSmash
Fair (That landing lag is pretty terrible now)
DSmash
Aerial Choke
Low (Still Viable)
Dark Dive
Up-tilt
Warlock Punch (Smoke Weed everyday)
Reasons: Up air and Down throw are arguably Ganon's best combo worthy moves. Jab, Sparta Kick are fast and good hitting moves, while DTilt is a good killing move. WizKick is a good way to close down distance, Bair is another good killing move, but short hopping to kill is a bit difficult. Dair has been nerfed from Brawl, but it still is a good Meteor and can kill after 110. On the other hand, Aerial Wizkick can kill earlier, but is far riskier. Up Smash, Forward Smash are good killers as well. FSmash is more viable than UpSmash. Down Smash on the other hand can punish rollers, but it is a bit slow. Fair has bad landing lag if you wiff the punch, but it's a good hitting move anyway.
Honestly, I don't like the Aerial Choke as much now. I don't see that many follow ups because the opponent can always spam A to hit (though it seems to also work in Grounded as well, but it's less visible). Dark Dive isn't a great recovery, but it still is better than nother. Up tilt and Warlock Punch are really good sw@g moves, one having super armor while up tilt breaking shields.
Down-Tilt
Forward-Tilt
Jab
Uair
Grounded Choke
DOWN THROW => IT COMBOS
High
WizKick
Dair
Bair
Dash-Attack
Nair
Mid
Aerial Wizkick
Other Throws
uSmash
FSmash
Fair (That landing lag is pretty terrible now)
DSmash
Aerial Choke
Low (Still Viable)
Dark Dive
Up-tilt
Warlock Punch (Smoke Weed everyday)
Reasons: Up air and Down throw are arguably Ganon's best combo worthy moves. Jab, Sparta Kick are fast and good hitting moves, while DTilt is a good killing move. WizKick is a good way to close down distance, Bair is another good killing move, but short hopping to kill is a bit difficult. Dair has been nerfed from Brawl, but it still is a good Meteor and can kill after 110. On the other hand, Aerial Wizkick can kill earlier, but is far riskier. Up Smash, Forward Smash are good killers as well. FSmash is more viable than UpSmash. Down Smash on the other hand can punish rollers, but it is a bit slow. Fair has bad landing lag if you wiff the punch, but it's a good hitting move anyway.
Honestly, I don't like the Aerial Choke as much now. I don't see that many follow ups because the opponent can always spam A to hit (though it seems to also work in Grounded as well, but it's less visible). Dark Dive isn't a great recovery, but it still is better than nother. Up tilt and Warlock Punch are really good sw@g moves, one having super armor while up tilt breaking shields.
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A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I would now put N-air above U-air, because after landing lag buffs, it's just a GODLIKE move. Use it to approach, cover spotdodge/rolls, juggle, edgeguard, after D-throw. It's very hard to go wrong with this move if you ask me, and you can even kill with it in this game.
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Hi-Hatz
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 59
- NNID
- Vrillyhoo
::Sacred tier-list based on my own play-style::Top:
U-Air
High:
N-Air
D-Air
B-Air
U-Smash
F-Tilt
D-Tilt
Jab
Dash Attack
Dark Dive (Same move but hugely improved)
Wizard's Foot
D-Throw (Combos)
F-Throw (Damage)
Mid:
F-Air
F-Smash
D-Smash
Gerudo
Low:
Pummel
U-Throw
B-Throw
Warlock Punch
Bottom:
U-Tilt (It was fun while it lasted)
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Scarlet Jile
Smash Lord
Is this tier list relative to all of the moves in the game, or is it just within Ganondorf's moveset? If it's the former, I feel like we're being awfully generous.
All I can say, from my own experience, is that there are a few moves that stand out in a list:
Top: f-tilt, u-air
Low: dsmash
Bottom: grab, warlock punch
All I can say, from my own experience, is that there are a few moves that stand out in a list:
Top: f-tilt, u-air
Low: dsmash
Bottom: grab, warlock punch
I wanna amend my list:
tier: (high utility)
-Choke
-UAir
-USmash
Evil tier: (high utility, but maybe a bit unsafe/circumstantial)
-BAir
-DTilt
-FTilt
-Wizkick
-Aerial wizkick
-Aerudo
Accursed tier: (serves a purpose, but not applicable in every MU/unsafe)
-FAir
-NAir
-DAir
-UTilt
-Dash attack
-FSmash
Moderately wrathful tier: (gets the job done when needed)
-Jab
-DSmash
Not that evil tier: (why)
-Dark dive
-Warlock punch
tier: (high utility)-Choke
-UAir
-USmash
Evil tier: (high utility, but maybe a bit unsafe/circumstantial)
-BAir
-DTilt
-FTilt
-Wizkick
-Aerial wizkick
-Aerudo
Accursed tier: (serves a purpose, but not applicable in every MU/unsafe)
-FAir
-NAir
-DAir
-UTilt
-Dash attack
-FSmash
Moderately wrathful tier: (gets the job done when needed)
-Jab
-DSmash
Not that evil tier: (why)
-Dark dive
-Warlock punch
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Shogger
Smash Apprentice
Amen. I think Nair just might be my most used move nowadays. Fastfalled Nair when you're high up or offstage just covers SO much area and stays out so long.
Top
Nair-Safe and a great utility in many situations
Dtilt-Great range and respectable speed makes for a great interruption tool, plus its combo utility is pretty good
Gerudo-Great damage racker and our best way around the shield, greatest potential
Dash Attack-I feel one of if not his best punishment tools with the long lasting hit box, punishes rolls, air dodges, and whiffed moves with arguably the best follow up options bar flame choke.
High
Wizkick-Pretty much what a dash attack does minus the follow up options and plus the ledge cancel, the cancel being great for many ledge options and mind games which I feel is a vital part of his offstage game.
Aerudo-Suicide is a great option for retaining that stock lead or regaining speed which I value a lot.
Jab-Fastest interruption option
Fair-I feel the kill potential here is great, whether that be a straight up ko, gimp, or stage spike. It's on stage use while limited xan prove to be a valuable tool for covering ledge options, mind gaming via buffered spe ials, or just a well spaced fair from sh.
Mid
Uair-Arguably the best off stage option and a great sh and fh option, but I feel it's utility while great is limited.
Ftilt-Great for setting up favorable scenarios which is very valuable but it doesn't offer much else. Great pivot option though.
Bair-Speed and power is great but the range is below average. On stage it's pretty predictable too.
Air Wizkick-Good option for evading juggles provided you don't overuse it or end it on stage, plus its a nice kill/neteor smash mive covering a large area.
Grab-Dthrow is very valuable but the other throws not so much, I honestly wouldn't use ghis too much past early to mid percents.
Usmash-Good for mind games and punishing air dodges but otherwise pretty hard to land and it doesn't offer much else.
Fsmash-Very punishable but with good reads it offers a very high reward that most ofher moves can't offer, but it serves little other purpose.
Dair-Great meteor smash or kill move on the sourspot, not much else.
Low
Dark Dive-I value the ability go hit opponents away near the ledge highly but this is the only viable situation really. Out of a kick cancel I have netted kills uppercutting airborne opponents but I acknowledge the likelihood of landing it more than once a match if that.
Utilt-Used right high reward at the ledge but unlikely to hit, safe enough to go for it though.
Dsmash-Has kittle use aside from punishing roll spammers, but the second kick pulling them towards you and maybe even past you on shield is a pretty good mind vame and a possible savior.
Bottom
Watlock Punch-A reverse one can be a decent revover option, I've used it through Pikachu's Thunder although the chance of actually finding a scenario this will hit is next to nothing.
Had to write this all out on a seperate site due to the lag SB has given me recently.
All in respective order here.
Nair-Safe and a great utility in many situations
Dtilt-Great range and respectable speed makes for a great interruption tool, plus its combo utility is pretty good
Gerudo-Great damage racker and our best way around the shield, greatest potential
Dash Attack-I feel one of if not his best punishment tools with the long lasting hit box, punishes rolls, air dodges, and whiffed moves with arguably the best follow up options bar flame choke.
High
Wizkick-Pretty much what a dash attack does minus the follow up options and plus the ledge cancel, the cancel being great for many ledge options and mind games which I feel is a vital part of his offstage game.
Aerudo-Suicide is a great option for retaining that stock lead or regaining speed which I value a lot.
Jab-Fastest interruption option
Fair-I feel the kill potential here is great, whether that be a straight up ko, gimp, or stage spike. It's on stage use while limited xan prove to be a valuable tool for covering ledge options, mind gaming via buffered spe ials, or just a well spaced fair from sh.
Mid
Uair-Arguably the best off stage option and a great sh and fh option, but I feel it's utility while great is limited.
Ftilt-Great for setting up favorable scenarios which is very valuable but it doesn't offer much else. Great pivot option though.
Bair-Speed and power is great but the range is below average. On stage it's pretty predictable too.
Air Wizkick-Good option for evading juggles provided you don't overuse it or end it on stage, plus its a nice kill/neteor smash mive covering a large area.
Grab-Dthrow is very valuable but the other throws not so much, I honestly wouldn't use ghis too much past early to mid percents.
Usmash-Good for mind games and punishing air dodges but otherwise pretty hard to land and it doesn't offer much else.
Fsmash-Very punishable but with good reads it offers a very high reward that most ofher moves can't offer, but it serves little other purpose.
Dair-Great meteor smash or kill move on the sourspot, not much else.
Low
Dark Dive-I value the ability go hit opponents away near the ledge highly but this is the only viable situation really. Out of a kick cancel I have netted kills uppercutting airborne opponents but I acknowledge the likelihood of landing it more than once a match if that.
Utilt-Used right high reward at the ledge but unlikely to hit, safe enough to go for it though.
Dsmash-Has kittle use aside from punishing roll spammers, but the second kick pulling them towards you and maybe even past you on shield is a pretty good mind vame and a possible savior.
Bottom
Watlock Punch-A reverse one can be a decent revover option, I've used it through Pikachu's Thunder although the chance of actually finding a scenario this will hit is next to nothing.
Had to write this all out on a seperate site due to the lag SB has given me recently.
All in respective order here.
Blade Knight
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 722
Each of these teirs are in no particular order.
Top:
Dtilt
Ftilt
Flame Choke (Grounded)
Dash Attack
Bair
Uair
Wizard's Dropkick (Down B 2, still can ledgecancel, amazing recovery option, deceptive hitbox, great movement option as you don't slow down for hitting somebody, I think this move by itself could make Ganondorf way better in customs)
High:
Usmash
Fsmash
Wizard's Foot (Air)
Dark Fists (Up B Custom with no grab, amazing OoS option imo)
Jab
Fair
Dair
Nair
Flame Choke (Air, Off Stage)
Mid:
Utilt
Grab
Flame Choke (Air, On Stage)
Wizard's Foot (Ground)
BAL(ow)LER TIER:
Warlock Punch
Reversed Warlock Punch
Bottom:
Dsmash
Dark Dive
Top:
Dtilt
Ftilt
Flame Choke (Grounded)
Dash Attack
Bair
Uair
Wizard's Dropkick (Down B 2, still can ledgecancel, amazing recovery option, deceptive hitbox, great movement option as you don't slow down for hitting somebody, I think this move by itself could make Ganondorf way better in customs)
High:
Usmash
Fsmash
Wizard's Foot (Air)
Dark Fists (Up B Custom with no grab, amazing OoS option imo)
Jab
Fair
Dair
Nair
Flame Choke (Air, Off Stage)
Mid:
Utilt
Grab
Flame Choke (Air, On Stage)
Wizard's Foot (Ground)
BAL(ow)LER TIER:
Warlock Punch
Reversed Warlock Punch
Bottom:
Dsmash
Dark Dive
Last edited:
MechanicalRhythm
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2014
- Messages
- 13
Top
Uair
Nair
Dtilt
Flame Choke
WDK
High
Fair
Bair
Ftilt
Usmash
Flame Wave
Dark Fists
Mid
Jab
Dash Attack
Dair
Fsmash
Flame Chain
Wizards Foot
Low
Utilt
Dsmash
Warlock Thrust
Dark Vault
Bottom
Warlock Punch
Wizards Assault
Dark Dive
Uair
Nair
Dtilt
Flame Choke
WDK
High
Fair
Bair
Ftilt
Usmash
Flame Wave
Dark Fists
Mid
Jab
Dash Attack
Dair
Fsmash
Flame Chain
Wizards Foot
Low
Utilt
Dsmash
Warlock Thrust
Dark Vault
Bottom
Warlock Punch
Wizards Assault
Dark Dive
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I've been abusing Usmash lately just to see what we're able to get away with.I wanna amend my list:
-Choke
-UAir
-USmash
It's pretty fun to run up to ppl and Usmash them point blank.
Sort of like how we used SH Dair to punish Spotdodging in Brawl, Usmash is pretty nice when you think they'll spotdodge.
If you manage to hit them, good for you + aerial combo.
If they Shield, you're perfectly safe.
If they roll, they won't be able to punish you.
If they Spotdodge wit bad timing, Ganon gets frame advantage, I believe.
If they spotdodge with good timing (early, which is pretty hard), I believe they can soft-punish you.
You're also put in danger if they PS it.
I'm stating the obvious here, I know, but I just wanted to empty my mouth a bit.
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_Magus_
Smash Lord
I love u smash, it's great baiting technology. It's also quite useful as a punish for spotdodgers, like you said.I've been abusing Usmash lately just to see what we're able to get away with.
It's pretty fun to run up to ppl and Usmash them point blank.
Sort of like how we used SH Dair to punish Spotdodging in Brawl, Usmash is pretty nice when you think they'll spotdodge.
If you manage to hit them, good for you + aerial combo.
If they Shield, you're perfectly safe.
If they roll, they won't be able to punish you.
If they Spotdodge wit bad timing, Ganon gets frame advantage, I believe.
If they spotdodge with good timing (early, which is pretty hard), I believe they can soft-punish you.
You're also put in danger if they PS it.
I'm stating the obvious here, I know, but I just wanted to empty my mouth a bit.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2014
- Messages
- 308
- Location
- Glendale, CA, USA
- NNID
- DudeMcPersonMan
- 3DS FC
- 1865-1222-7961
Someone used this bait against me in Ganon Dittos and it worked: charge Usmash in the wrong direction so that it looks like a mistake, then when they come in for the punish, turnaround Ftilt!
He was good. I couldn't defeat him. He also used dtilt instead of ftilt after a usmash, which I realized was ingeniously simple and why didn't I think of that.
He was good. I couldn't defeat him. He also used dtilt instead of ftilt after a usmash, which I realized was ingeniously simple and why didn't I think of that.
Last edited:
_Magus_
Smash Lord
One of my favorite baits. XD they think they get a free punish and they rush in, only to have Ganondorf's f tilt informing them that this is, in fact, Sparta.
Last edited:
Shmeckie
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2015
- Messages
- 61
- NNID
- shmeckie
Personally, I think every move in his arsenal is useful. That's right I said "every"! Why do I say that? Well, think of it this way; Ganondorf is all about reads and punishes. We all know this. Thus, drawing out Ganondorf's full power revolves around getting into your opponent's head. The dude is Yomi incarnate. So the way I see it, the more in the opponent's head you get, the more of Ganondorf's abilities you unlock, so to speak. If you can flat out read an opponent's mind, you can bust out that well-timed Warlock Punch and destroy both their gameplan, and their morale. Hell, a few characters can easily be Warlock Punched with the right timing (if Ike recovers too high with his Up-B, enjoy your flashy finish). Same with the up tilt. If you can read your opponent's recovery you don't even need to get off your comfy stage to go for an edgeguard (hell, it pretty much gimps Dr. Mario completely). One of my favorite things in all of Smash is a well-timed U-tilt against Marth. His Up-B zipping straight up into the explosion that continues his upward flight all the way into oblivion never stops being funny. It's so seamless!
Down Smash makes for a good meaty punish that gets you a good chunk of damage with decent coverage. With the right read it can shut down opponents that want to stay on top of you. Now you might be saying "but new guy, what about Dark Dive? That crap's garbage, yo!" Well you'll be appreciating it a lot more when you pressing down while recovering to keep from snapping to the ledge, and that ending uppercut smacks some obnoxious edge caper off your precious ledge (helps with Villagers who wanna drop the bowling ball on your head, to boot! The uppercut beats the bowling ball). Also, if you know an opponent is going to jump to avoid a Flame Choke > D-tilt > Flame Choke > D-tilt string, you can go Flame Choke > D-tilt > Dark Dive for a surprise aerial command grab to ensure that you're getting that combo, dammit!
What I'm saying is never take Ganon's arsenal for granted. You got the tools. Learn to love the tools, and they'll love you back! And then bask in that moment when you Warlock Punch some silly fool who thought he was somethin'!
Down Smash makes for a good meaty punish that gets you a good chunk of damage with decent coverage. With the right read it can shut down opponents that want to stay on top of you. Now you might be saying "but new guy, what about Dark Dive? That crap's garbage, yo!" Well you'll be appreciating it a lot more when you pressing down while recovering to keep from snapping to the ledge, and that ending uppercut smacks some obnoxious edge caper off your precious ledge (helps with Villagers who wanna drop the bowling ball on your head, to boot! The uppercut beats the bowling ball). Also, if you know an opponent is going to jump to avoid a Flame Choke > D-tilt > Flame Choke > D-tilt string, you can go Flame Choke > D-tilt > Dark Dive for a surprise aerial command grab to ensure that you're getting that combo, dammit!
What I'm saying is never take Ganon's arsenal for granted. You got the tools. Learn to love the tools, and they'll love you back! And then bask in that moment when you Warlock Punch some silly fool who thought he was somethin'!