Data Moveset Thread - [COMPLETE]

[Sonic Orochi]

Kind of, same mechanic but different approach. I didn't really realize that the opponent's hurtbox would extend that much away from the ledge.

I just tested it. Doesn't seem too reliable. Should be good for some moves, like when trying to use Stomp to get that ledgesnap vulnerability window, I guess.

So, yeah, try to aim a bit farther away from the ledge when trying to capitalize on the ledgesnap vulnerability.

 

[Jords2Good]

Using sonics spring by ledge snapping works pretty good in some stages like battle field, town and city, smashville, and lylat.

I can sometimes be able to keep hitting them with the spring for a bunch of times depending on the characters recovery. But usually it doesnt happen when the character have no invincibility or haves moves that go through the spring like Mario's up b. But this works pretty great against characters who teleport!

And supposedly top tier character like sheik teleports, so thats good right? its pretty easy landing a stage spike against characters who teleport because they appear at the edge and then the spring would hit them out at the 1 frame of grabbing the ledge with no invincibility.

From the video about the snap back, having the spring at that lower part of their hurtbox would hit them into the stage which causes a stage spike.

So far this is from my experience so it seemed pretty consistent whenever i did it on the stages I listed above.

If this is old news then just ignore this.

If anything I'm managing to this pretty well so hey, I'm improving my skills!

 

[They Guy that Knows]

So i have seen people use the Spin Shot but i dont see many people drifting/Drift canceling with sonic why is that? or is it that hey just dont know it?

 

[LCC Son-in-Law]

Hey Sonic boards! Just wanted to let you know that I really like how you have the opening post arranged here, and I'm going to use this format as the basis of the Little Mac moveset thread as well (honestly, it will probably be very similar).

Edit: Scratch that, not necessary. Still, really like your layout xD

 

[Camalange]

Hey Sonic boards! Just wanted to let you know that I really like how you have the opening post arranged here, and I'm going to use this format as the basis of the Little Mac moveset thread as well (honestly, it will probably be very similar).

Edit: Scratch that, not necessary. Still, really like your layout xD

I love @ Sonic Orochi .

 

[Sonic Orochi]

So i have seen people use the Spin Shot but i dont see many people drifting/Drift canceling with sonic why is that? or is it that hey just dont know it?

What?

I love @ Sonic Orochi .

And I wuv all you Sonic mains who read the moveset thread! too awesome

 

[Crabman]

Sorry if this has been brought up before but does anyone know how to consistently get the 2nd hit of Uair when comboing an opponent with SD / SC?

This is only difficult to pull off consistently when an opponent is at 0% but getting the 2nd hit at super low %'s means you can follow up with a guaranteed Nair or another Uair.

I've tried messing around with the number of charges, holding down after the SD connects, etc but can't quite seem to get it everytime, been practicing on mario.

thanks.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Usually, hitting with the SDJ/SCJ is good enough to set up for an Uair1+2.

However, due to the weird Uair1 hitbox, it's not really guaranteed that Uair2 will connect.

You can try to SDR->roll past->aerial if you want. I find that specially useful for Bairs.

 

[Camalange]

Rolling past is amazing for Bairs <3

You can cheese so many kills that way, haha.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I remember using SCR to Bair so much in Brawl. Too bad it doesn't work quite as well in Sm4sh, but when it does: https://youtu.be/_MZA-tr_d_I?t=9m52s

Also, Ledgeshooting shenanigans to SD to Bair: https://youtu.be/zec_scoOILA?t=10m59s

 

[Gregory2590]

Speaking of which, I used to land SDR>Fair a lot in brawl. For some reason, I just can't do it as well in this game.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Speaking of which, I used to land SDR>Fair a lot in brawl. For some reason, I just can't do it as well in this game.

Fair is what I usually do out of a SDR->SDJ. If you do it instantly it works.

What?



And I wuv all you Sonic mains who read the moveset thread! too awesome

We wuv you too Orochi

Usually, hitting with the SDJ/SCJ is good enough to set up for an Uair1+2.

However, due to the weird Uair1 hitbox, it's not really guaranteed that Uair2 will connect.

You can try to SDR->roll past->aerial if you want. I find that specially useful for Bairs.

So if I want to hit them with a bair, SDR to crossup leads into it? Swiggity

 

[Camalange]

So if I want to hit them with a bair, SDR to crossup leads into it? Swiggity

Swoogity

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Swoogity

Steaky

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I hate how if we use Homing attack and then before we land do any spin attack and stop then do another spin attack and jump that we can't use homing attack again.......even though we should be able to given that the rule is you can't homing attack again until you land on the ground.

Sakurai please fix BSBS.......

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I hate how if we use Homing attack and then before we land do any spin attack and stop then do another spin attack and jump that we can't use homing attack again.......even though we should be able to given that the rule is you can't homing attack again until you land on the ground.

Sakurai please fix BSBS.......

Nicely observed. I shall include that in the BSBS vid.

I was expecting to finish the editing in a timely manner but there's so much BS that I don't think that just one song will be enough..

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Nicely observed. I shall include that in the BSBS vid.

I was expecting to finish the editing in a timely manner but there's so much BS that I don't think that just one song will be enough..

Do one of those really cheesy Sonic songs like Follow Me, My Sweet Passion, or Lazy Days Livin in Paradise.

Also, does BSBS work at random? And does it apply to all aerial spin rolls or just some? I've seen 6WX do some recoveries with his double jump after an aerial SDR/SCR.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I'm more confortable with remixes and such. I'll see what I can find.

BSBS is always there, though if you roll off a platform, the SDR becomes a SDH/ASC, both of which you can double jump out of (assuming you had a double jump before releasing the aerial spin in the first place, that is).

 

[Myst_R]

Ok, I have no way to record it, but we can kind of wavebounce on the ground with our SD. I guess it works the same way as a wavebounce, but grounded. All you have to add is a shield cancel.

Dash > SD > Reverse Sd > Shield Cancel

I don't know if you already knew it, if it can be usefull but I found it nice to see.

My explanations may not be clear and I'm not sure I can record it properly so I hope someone will get it or already knows it to make a proper footage.

EDIT: I can not do it consistently, but I can confirm it acts like a wavebounce but on the ground : I slide in the opposite direction of my initial dash

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, we got that covered.

 

[Myst_R]

Is there a video or a tutorial about it ?

 

[Camalange]

I think... ? Not so much a tutorial, but definitely video evidence.

I'll probably give it a proper tutorial at some point.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

You sure? I feel like its timing as almost as obnoxious as the reverse ISDJ's..

 

[Camalange]

I've definitely gotten it more easily than reverse ISDJ.

Reverse ISDJ is hell.

It's been awhile since I last tried, so I might be remembering wrong...

 

[Windstar120025]

What?


sorry that was my other account, not sure where the Name comes from but its Sonics ability to immediately cancel is Side-b spin charge with a shield. Basically its a transition to shield instead of an attack/Jump out of the charge. Why its useful is because it lets sonic slide a significant amount while being in shield allowing him to still approach a bit when shielding projectiles and such. Since it is a shield its acts as a way to do a sliding grab, as well as further sliding upsmash than regular running one. My friend uses sonic and does this too its annoying because when done right it lets sonic slide behind enemies while in shield and still facing towards them, this is dependant on whether or not the person does a turnaround side-b cancel instead either way it give sonic a very defensive maneuvering tool. How it works is because when sonic is running and then does a side-b his velocity is still present when he turn into ball this is because his side-b he has different start up animation depending whether or not he is in a full run of standing still. When running he lunges forward, at this time the game doesn't get rid of his running velocity.However the charging does quickly dissipate it so we do see it disappear almost immediately, however when you shield directly after the start of his charging he lunges forward with the velocity then immediately goes into shield providing the sliding he does during his shield and if player is fast enough they can do anything that they would be able to do out of shield at that time.

Basically immagine sonic ducking behind you when you try to stop his approach and he then has his way with you during your animation. The entire of the skill is as fast as flashing your shield off and on but allows you to move in specific directions and a significant amount of space.

You should look into trying to learn it an opponent that doesn't see it coming wont be able to handle it very well. Do keep in mind that you do have to be in full run in order to perform the full on however it does allow you to do a Perfect pivot shiled when you interupt fram one of start up running with a reversed side-b shield cancel slide.(See Drifting Sounds soooooooo much better) Also do a forward runing one at frame one of running animation for step shield it lets you do a quick step in shield which is much faster than a shield at first interuptable point in running start up.

Ok, I have no way to record it, but we can kind of wavebounce on the ground with our SD. I guess it works the same way as a wavebounce, but grounded. All you have to add is a shield cancel.

Dash > SD > Reverse Sd > Shield Cancel

I don't know if you already knew it, if it can be usefull but I found it nice to see.

My explanations may not be clear and I'm not sure I can record it properly so I hope someone will get it or already knows it to make a proper footage.

EDIT: I can not do it consistently, but I can confirm it acts like a wavebounce but on the ground : I slide in the opposite direction of my initial dash

Lol This is what i call Drifting

Lol This is what i call Drifting i like that name Much better than Wavebounce.

 

[Myst_R]

Lol This is what i call Drifting

I am not sure you understood what I'm talking about. When I mean reverse SD, I do not mean turnaround SD. So when I "wavebounce" I face the opposite direction of my dash AND I slide the opposite direction of my initial dash.

This is not something as easy as a turnaround SD shield cancel to execute. It seems to have a really strict timing.

I'm really looking forward to see this in a video to be sure I am understood. I want to learn more about the use of this technique.

As I've never seen anybody do it, I wonder if it is useful or too hard to do. (Maybe I already saw it and never realised it as I didn't know this AT and due to its fast execution)

 

[Windstar120025]

I am not sure you understood what I'm talking about. When I mean reverse SD, I do not mean turnaround SD. So when I "wavebounce" I face the opposite direction of my dash AND I slide the opposite direction of my initial dash.

This is not something as easy as a turnaround SD shield cancel to execute. It seems to have a really strict timing.

I'm really looking forward to see this in a video to be sure I am understood. I want to learn more about the use of this technique.

As I've never seen anybody do it, I wonder if it is useful or too hard to do. (Maybe I already saw it and never realised it as I didn't know this AT and due to its fast execution)

I know exactly what situation your talking about ultimately i have done your Wavebounce thing alot when practicing my Drifting i just thought it was a matter o frame timing that determined the direction you go. But i belive thats actidentally doing a b-reversal by using the Shild cancel as the reversal point but i cant do the one your talking about very often either its hard i know, but the version im talking about is fairly easy its just the Turnaround slide of the Wavebounce is hard.mber: 218437"][/quote

 

[J.APS]

well...it's fun to do:
Run -> SD to the other way -> shield cancel (-> back roll, maybe)
it's a big slide XD

 

[StriderAaron360]

Don't know if this was found/talked about, but Sonic's Spin Charge jump can be shield cancelled. Not really a huge thing, but it was something interesting I found while messing around in the lab.

 

[Camalange]

Don't know if this was found/talked about, but Sonic's Spin Charge jump can be shield cancelled. Not really a huge thing, but it was something interesting I found while messing around in the lab.

sigh

Please elaborate.

 

[StriderAaron360]

sigh

Please elaborate.

Whoops nevermind lol I was just shield cancelling a Spin Dash after I came back to the ground from a Spin Dash Jump. Moving on

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Okay, 's tech chase % from a Dtilt:

0% - 68% fresh to 79% stale
50% - 64% fresh to 75% stale
100% - 54% fresh to 64% stale
150% - 45% fresh to 55% stale

1. I'm dividing rage effect into 3 tiers: 50%, 100% and 150%, just 'cause;
2. the % gain from the first tier is minimal: 4% difference only; however, 2nd tier to 1st is ~10% while 3rd to 2nd is ~9%;
3. stale move negation seems to add ~1% for each Dtilt you have in the queue.

Conclusion:

• making a full table for the entire cast isn't as practical as I thought it would be..

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Ok, I have no way to record it, but we can kind of wavebounce on the ground with our SD. I guess it works the same way as a wavebounce, but grounded. All you have to add is a shield cancel.

Dash > SD > Reverse Sd > Shield Cancel

I don't know if you already knew it, if it can be usefull but I found it nice to see.

My explanations may not be clear and I'm not sure I can record it properly so I hope someone will get it or already knows it to make a proper footage.

EDIT: I can not do it consistently, but I can confirm it acts like a wavebounce but on the ground : I slide in the opposite direction of my initial dash

I was just about to ask about this. I watched another Sonic player do it but I can't seem to replicate it myself. The slide you get looks pretty significant so I'd like to learn how to execute it. I'm trying your method Myst but I can't seem to do it still. Do you think you could break down your inputs further? Or if anyone else knows exactly how it's done could they explain it piece by piece please?

 

[Camalange]

I was just about to ask about this. I watched another Sonic player do it but I can't seem to replicate it myself. The slide you get looks pretty significant so I'd like to learn how to execute it. I'm trying your method Myst but I can't seem to do it still. Do you think you could break down your inputs further? Or if anyone else knows exactly how it's done could they explain it piece by piece please?

Well that's different from the versions I've seen and done...

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Yea, I wasn't sure if this was known or archived. It looks significant enough that it would be, but it certainly wasn't known to me, and I've never seen it until now. I've managed to pull it off five or six times now while trying to figure it out, but now I can't get it at all lol. The series of inputs feels like "Dash > SD > flick the control stick the reverse direction > Shield" one after the other, but I don't know if there's a specific timing to do any of these, if they should be done as fast as possible, or if I'm wrong altogether, since I can't seem to do it anymore ;S

 

[Camalange]

Yea, I wasn't sure if this was known or archived. It looks significant enough that it would be, but it certainly wasn't known to me, and I've never seen it until now. I've managed to pull it off five or six times now while trying to figure it out, but now I can't get it at all lol. The series of inputs feels like "Dash > SD > flick the control stick the reverse direction > Shield" one after the other, but I don't know if there's a specific timing to do any of these, if they should be done as fast as possible, or if I'm wrong altogether, since I can't seem to do it anymore ;S

The principles are known and archived but... My first time seeing that variant on it.

You can basically get a bunch of different weird slides, depending on when you pivot or when you cancel the spin with a shield, or change around any of that order, lmao.

****ing Sonic ****.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Welp, guess I'll be in training mode for the rest of the day... ;x

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Oh that slide....i've done that many times. it's done the same way you would perform a reverse ISDJ except instead of trying to get the jump you shield cancel. The way it was done though in that video was a turn around reverse SDSC though which is somewhat harder because you have to do all those inputs but also pivot yourself the other way.

It's hard to explain in words

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Tenki made a post about it IIRC.

I'm on mobile atm so I won't be searching for it lol

 

[Camalange]

I hate trying to explain Sonic's pivots and shield cancels through text.

"Just do it!" - Shia LaBeouf 2015

It's possible I've seen that version before and just don't remember it, but like, the sheer amount of ways you can pivot, wavebounce, b-reverse, time shield cancel, etc. it's just a headache to even try to catalogue them all as they fall under the exact same concepts just with slightly altered execution, which would come best just from practicing and playing with the timing on your own.