Data Moveset Thread - [COMPLETE]

[J.APS]

Here:

Spoiler

http://gfycat.com/HardtofindNaughtyDegu
http://gfycat.com/VeneratedPointlessBug

the ASD works and pretty sure ASC too
For the combo...I'm feel so stupid XD I don't know why I was thinking in Utilt X'D
Well, in that case...yes it works (I done that in for glory sometimes before the patch...)

 

[Camalange]

Here:

Spoiler

http://gfycat.com/HardtofindNaughtyDegu
http://gfycat.com/VeneratedPointlessBug

l m a o

The first one I was like, oh that's cute.

Second one I was like, damn, that's kawaii as hell.

You must get hella bored, Orochi.

 

[cerealkiller]

I really need to practice the FS-Dair thing to finally give some good use to the only move I hate...
I know, I know, I already should be using it off ledge more even without the footstool. I don't like Dair!

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Dair is awesome.

Use it to edgeguard when facing the stage and you might stage spike a low recovering enemy with the late hitbox.

 

[J.APS]

you know that's awesome? Dair + footstool, they die inmediately.
Talking about Dair, I wakeup and start do this on 3DS, just to know if the % for a Dair change and...I notice that something awful is still in game... Yoshi's 2° jump STILL "cancel" the Dair :/

 

[cerealkiller]

Yeah I know it has good uses I just don't seem to adapt, I'd prefer a more static safer Dair

I though that was normal, isn't Yoshi's 2nd jump super armored or something?

 

[J.APS]

Yeah I know it has good uses I just don't seem to adapt, I'd prefer a more static safer Dair

I though that was normal, isn't Yoshi's 2nd jump super armored or something?

Grounded Dair spike is cool too
And...yeah, still hate that...

 

[cerealkiller]

Stupid Yoshi... I hate him since S64.
But now that he as a Spin-link move it makes so angry when he hits me as Sonic.

 

[J.APS]

Stupid Yoshi... I hate him since S64.
But now that he as a Spin-link move it makes so angry when he hits me as Sonic.

..what? I don't get it XD

 

[cerealkiller]

1- I hate yoshi.
2- He as a "spinning egg" move which resembles Sonic's spin dash move. I don't like when Yoshis start rolling around and manage to hit me with that.

 

[J.APS]

1- I hate yoshi.
2- He as a "spinning egg" move which resembles Sonic's spin dash move. I don't like when Yoshis start rolling around and manage to hit me with that.

OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH!!! X'D
just spin dash->jump (works)->homing attack (depends)

 

[Camalange]

Speaking of uses for Dair...
Y'all should punish airdodges with Dair more.

**** is tight.

https://youtu.be/aTw9n7YMDS0?t=13m32s

Dair also makes for janky edgeguards, even if you don't get the spike.

https://youtu.be/kyuJcNiIk_0?t=1h49m55s

 

[J.APS]

Speaking of uses for Dair...
Y'all should punish airdodges with Dair more.

**** is tight.

https://youtu.be/aTw9n7YMDS0?t=13m32s

Dair also makes for janky edgeguards, even if you don't get the spike.

https://youtu.be/kyuJcNiIk_0?t=1h49m55s

Is much better when the Dair don't spike them in a higher zone, they get killed.

That edgeguard...so cool.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Speaking of uses for Dair...
Y'all should punish airdodges with Dair more.

**** is tight.

https://youtu.be/aTw9n7YMDS0?t=13m32s

Use it whenever the Spring sends you above them (when air chasing ofc). Works pretty much everytime.

 

[Camalange]

Is much better when the Dair don't spike them in a higher zone, they get killed.

That edgeguard...so cool.

Use it whenever the Spring sends you above them (when air chasing ofc). Works pretty much everytime.

Yup yup.

It's a great bait and switch.

Similar philosophy to delaying a Uair when baiting an airdodge, but there's something way more mind crushing when you purposely spring over them and punish with the Dair.

 

[J.APS]

sometimes when a Spring+Uair don't reach them...Dair is a good option
(also..this is old...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KReitSsYvJU&feature=youtu.be&t=17m21s

 

[Camalange]

sometimes when a Spring+Uair don't reach them...Dair is a good option
(also..this is old...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KReitSsYvJU&feature=youtu.be&t=17m21s

I'm not sure why there were no air dodge attempts, but dair kills off the top are hilarious always.

Nair is great in that situation too.

 

[J.APS]

It's funny when you jump->Nair and they get kill, I know I have that video somewhere...

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I just realized that, depending on the opponent's up B move, whenever the spike in the SC->Dair setup goes under the enemy, it's better to use a Fair rather than a Bair.

Also, the "works reliably" part is subjective and depends on the timing of the Dair (basically, a spike with the last possible frame is better, because you'll recover earlier from the Dair), so I'm dropping it for the SC sans FS setup. For the other setups, consider Dair ASAP after the FS.

Also, it seems that for some characters a SCJ->Dair setup will be preferred for higher percentages, rather than using a SCR in the mix (messing up a bit with our hit confirm, but oh well).

| Starts Working | Works Reliably | Kills | Stops Working
SD+FS setup | Bair: 26%; FS: 40% | Bair: 28% | Can't recover: n/a; KO: 63% | 89%
SC setup | Bair (over): 25%; Bair (under): 27%; Fair (under): %; FS: 40% | n/a | Can't recover: n/a; KO: 74% | 80%
SC+FS setup | Bair: 27%; FS: 41% | Bair: 27% | Can't recover: n/a; KO: 55% | 131%

| Starts Working | Works Reliably | Kills | Stops Working
SD+FS setup | Bair: 34%; FS: 43% | Bair: 35% | Can't recover: n/a; KO: 63% | 86%
SC setup | Bair (over): 27%; Bair (under): 31%; Fair (under): 33%; FS: 39% | n/a | Can't recover: n/a; KO: 71% | 81%
SC+FS setup | Bair: 35%; FS: 44% | Bair: 36% | Can't recover: n/a; KO: 57% | 131%

| Starts Working | Works Reliably | Kills | Stops Working
SC setup | Bair (over): 45%; FS: 52% | n/a | Can't recover: 67%*; KO: n/a** | 84%
For some unknown reason it's easier to Dair over rather than under | FS followup as early as 45% but it's inconsistent as **** | *might be later 'cause the CPU can't recover very well | **the trajectory pretty much renders this impossible
SCJ setup | starts working around 84%

 

[Camalange]

It's funny when you jump->Nair and they get kill, I know I have that video somewhere...

I have this absurd Nair kill from one of my first online matches. What a culture shock that was coming from Brawl...

https://youtu.be/p8vxA_O5MMU?t=3m12s

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Also, I've been thinking of making yet another list, with %s of when Dtilt and aerial Spring allow for tech chases.

For instance:

| Down Tilt | Aerial Spring
| 68% | 79%
| 66% | 77%
| 76% | 88%

 

[Camalange]

If you connect with the arc of a BSD SJ, you can space yourself to spring and carry them up with you.

I just did BSD, SJ, Spring carry, Uair.

Also, BSD somehow clanked with Shulk's vision...

lmfao what

 

[Nimyu]

What are the list of combos Sonic has?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Combos are pretty much SDR/SCR to their respective jumps and then an aerial followup (aerial attack, footstool, special attack.. etc). Also: sourspot falling Nair into grab, Utilt or another Nair; aerial Spring -> Dair to land -> FSmash/USmash chase; VSDJ/SDH to HA. I guess that's pretty much it.

---

You guys know how airdodging after a Spring won't let us grab the ledge anytime soon, right?

Yeah.. so I was training my Sonic amiibo just for kicks and it freaking discovered a new AT.

I mean, I did not do the AT: the amiibo did..

So, yeah, what we have here is pretty much an airdodge cancelled ledgegrab.

Notice that extra "effect" there? Well, that's a walljump visual cue. Turns out that if you time a walljump after an airdodge when near the ledge you should be able to autosnap onto if right after the airdodge ends.

Technically this should work with all characters that can walljump but it doesn't seem that way. Also, only a few actually have timings that are easy to deal with, Sonic included.

I don't know how we can use this to our advantage yet, but I'm thinking.. maybe run offstage then double jump back and then time an ACL (airdodge cancelled ledgegrab) to avoid the opponent's recovery and immediately force a ledge trump?

 

[Camalange]

I really, really wish that was in slow motion so I could see the cue better.

At that rate, it sort of just looks like the airdodge ended in time for the ledge to be grabbed. Airdodges can't normally be canceled by a wall jump, so the airdodge ended in time for a wall jump as you say...

… But in that case, if the airdodge was over in time for a wall jump, wasn't he already close enough to the ledge to auto-snap? Why would the wall jump even happen or be necessary? It does seem like a little too short of a time difference for it to auto-snap, but again it's really hard to tell without knowing the frames.

Took some screenshots for visual reference to help myself and everyone else.

So it does appear that there are two flash effects. One of which below the ledge, and one where Sonic autosnaps. To be transparent, I'm not sure how many flashes normally happens when this sort of things happens lol but I'm assuming there's normally only one flash when he snaps.

You can see in the stills where Sonic's airdodge is no longer flashing, and when it grabs the ledge. So… Is airdodge maybe IASA if you input a wall jump? But I've also never seen a wall jump lead to such a direct autosnap… It's gotta be frame perfect.

I am quite puzzled.

 

[Nimyu]

Combos are pretty much SDR/SCR to their respective jumps and then an aerial followup (aerial attack, footstool, special attack.. etc). Also: sourspot falling Nair into grab, Utilt or another Nair; aerial Spring -> Dair to land -> FSmash/USmash chase; VSDJ/SDH to HA. I guess that's pretty much it.

---

You guys know how airdodging after a Spring won't let us grab the ledge anytime soon, right?

Yeah.. so I was training my Sonic amiibo just for kicks and it freaking discovered a new AT.

I mean, I did not do the AT: the amiibo did..

So, yeah, what we have here is pretty much an airdodge cancelled ledgegrab.

Notice that extra "effect" there? Well, that's a walljump visual cue. Turns out that if you time a walljump after an airdodge when near the ledge you should be able to autosnap onto if right after the airdodge ends.

Technically this should work with all characters that can walljump but it doesn't seem that way. Also, only a few actually have timings that are easy to deal with, Sonic included.

I don't know how we can use this to our advantage yet, but I'm thinking.. maybe run offstage then double jump back and then time an ACL (airdodge cancelled ledgegrab) to avoid the opponent's recovery and immediately force a ledge trump?

Does auto cancel up air into nair work? It's showed in training when I do it, but otherwise I don't know if it does.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I really, really wish that was in slow motion so I could see the cue better.

At that rate, it sort of just looks like the airdodge ended in time for the ledge to be grabbed. Airdodges can't normally be canceled by a wall jump, so the airdodge ended in time for a wall jump as you say...

… But in that case, if the airdodge was over in time for a wall jump, wasn't he already close enough to the ledge to auto-snap? Why would the wall jump even happen or be necessary? It does seem like a little too short of a time difference for it to auto-snap, but again it's really hard to tell without knowing the frames.

Took some screenshots for visual reference to help myself and everyone else.

View attachment 49663
View attachment 49664
View attachment 49665

So it does appear that there are two flash effects. One of which below the ledge, and one where Sonic autosnaps. To be transparent, I'm not sure how many flashes normally happens when this sort of things happens lol but I'm assuming there's normally only one flash when he snaps.

You can see in the stills where Sonic's airdodge is no longer flashing, and when it grabs the ledge. So… Is airdodge maybe IASA if you input a wall jump? But I've also never seen a wall jump lead to such a direct autosnap… It's gotta be frame perfect.

I am quite puzzled.

My b. I found that out and just wanted to share it ASAP. It was ****ing 4 a.m. also. @_@

A simple airdodge from that height doesn't allow for a ledgesnap to occur, trust me (at least for Sonic). Regardless, just try it yourself: run off the stage, fastfall a bit and then double jump back, towards the ledge, while airdodging. No ledgesnap. Then try it with the walljump buffered.

The top flash effect is the ledgesnap's. The bottom one is the walljump's (btw, Pikachu doesn't seem to have that animation when walljumping from FD's sloped wall.. lol). It doesn't really need to be frame perfect (at least not with Sonic). Just buffer a walljump after the airdodge and it will happen. However, if you're above the perfect height for a ledgesnap you'll probably end up walljumping straight from it.

Does auto cancel up air into nair work? It's showed in training when I do it, but otherwise I don't know if it does.

Oh, sure. Falling Uair1 and 2 can act as combo starters. You can even falling Uair2->Spring->Uair at higher percentages.

 

[Nimyu]

Have you guys started on any gif's showing off Frame Data with like outlined hitboxes? XD

How fast does Spring come out? I think that's good info for Sonic's up b special. DX

 

[Camalange]

Have you guys started on any gif's showing off Frame Data with like outlined hitboxes? XD

I don't think so… No clue how to go about it. Frames aren't really my speciality.

How fast does Spring come out? I think that's good info for Sonic's up b special. DX

Orochi might know better, but I think a comprehensive frame data google doc/thread or something was shared earlier. Might not include when the Spring is active, though.

 

[Nimyu]

I don't think so… No clue how to go about it. Frames aren't really my speciality.

Orochi might know better, but I think a comprehensive frame data google doc/thread or something was shared earlier. Might not include when the Spring is active, though.

Kay, thanks Camalange!

 

[Camalange]

Kay, thanks Camalange!

Sorry I couldn't be of more help ;_;

 

[New Age Retro Hippie]

Have you guys started on any gif's showing off Frame Data with like outlined hitboxes? XD

How fast does Spring come out? I think that's good info for Sonic's up b special. DX

I was under the impression spring was frame 1 - the reason why you can get out of jab combos with it.

 

[Camalange]

I was under the impression spring was frame 1 - the reason why you can get out of jab combos with it.

I wish.

There's actually a frame where you can see the spring spawn and you can still get hit and it just vanishes.

But yeah, definitely not frame 1. That would be a dream.

Once it does activate, however, Sonic is invincible during the initial launch. It's great for escaping combos because of it creating a hitbox below him, and the invincibility is back-up if they somehow don't get hit by spring and connect with you.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Springing headbutt is better to get out of jab combo's due to the first frame the spring appears it has an active hitbox.

Also any word on when we could expect that video on BSBS?

 

[Camalange]

Springing headbutt is better to get out of jab combo's due to the first frame the spring appears it has an active hitbox.

Does it? That's neat.

Also any word on when we could expect that video on BSBS?

I think that particular video is more on Orochi's end.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Yeah, Spring is definitely not frame 1 and I'm also not very good with frames :v

BSBS will be done.. someday. Hopefully.

(didn't even start making it yet, my b)

 

[Camalange]

Go team.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Okay, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXWfUjPTA

Side B from the ledge to aerial, anyone?

No, seriously, I can't test this atm and wanted to know if anyone else could..

 

[J.APS]

Okay, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXWfUjPTA

Side B from the ledge to aerial, anyone?

No, seriously, I can't test this atm and wanted to know if anyone else could..

Bair to stage spike (Y)
Also...I remember a video you made, using Dsmash...I think...

 

[Camalange]

Okay, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXWfUjPTA

Side B from the ledge to aerial, anyone?

No, seriously, I can't test this atm and wanted to know if anyone else could..

Isn't this the same as the ledgesnapping video you did?