Data Moveset Thread - [COMPLETE]

[Camalange]

It was a bit hard to do this when holding my phone between my legs and playing, but I managed to get it.

The spawn of the spring makes them warp to you.

I have yet to confirm if it works with Megaman as well, considering Rush doesn't last as long.

Personally, this is the first time I've seen it at least...

Holy ****.

I guess the game gets confused since there can't be two springs at once, but the opponent activates the effect of a spring as soon as you summon a new one, thus leaving us with... That.

Still incredibly niche, but hilarious and really cool to know regardless. Thank you for sharing this. Definitely curious to know if Megaman can do this as well with Rush.

 

[Kytos]

It actually works on everybody as well.

I discovered this on a battle online. Sheik was about to land on it and then I managed to make him spawn to me. Lmao

Edit: I don't know if it works on the Wii U version, since I don't own the console yet.

 

[Gregory2590]

I can confirm that it works on the Wii U verison. Didn't get a recording because the timing can go kill itself.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Wow, this is huge. Not because of its usefulness or anything, but we can now make a vid compiling some Sonic BS like BSBS, DThrow tech and such, alongside with this Spring warp thing and we MIGHT just see a fix in an upcoming patch.

Oh man.

 

[Camalange]

Can we activate this from the air?

 

[Gregory2590]

If this wasn't so frame perfect...

oh my lord..

Then again, it'll still be something situational anyway.

 

[Kytos]

Can we activate this from the air?

Yes. You can activate this in the air. You can score and instant KO if you're high enough and if you time your attack just right.

Though this may work in their favor too.

 

[Kinetik07]

Still incredibly niche, but hilarious and really cool to know regardless. Thank you for sharing this. Definitely curious to know if Megaman can do this as well with Rush.

Yup, just tried it, Megaman's teleporting rush works. Doing it in the air to Up air is an instant kill. I couldn't get pac's trampoline to work tho

 

[Sonic Orochi]

If this wasn't so frame perfect...

oh my lord..

Then again, it'll still be something situational anyway.

This is pretty much a standard reply that works everytime someone finds a new Sm4sh AT.

Yup, just tried it, Megaman's teleporting rush works. Doing it in the air to Up air is an instant kill. I couldn't get pac's trampoline to work tho

Dang it, now if they do have a bugfix patch, they'll only address this warp glitch and not BSBS.

 

[Camalange]

Yes. You can activate this in the air. You can score and instant KO if you're high enough and if you time your attack just right.

Though this may work in their favor too.

Beautiful.

This sounds so hype. I want to see it happen to someone and have them quit Sm4sh 4ever.

This is pretty much a standard reply that works everytime someone finds a new Sm4sh AT.

^^

Dang it, now if they do have a bugfix patch, they'll only address this warp glitch and not BSBS.

They only fix **** if it affects other characters... Basically meaning if it affects Megaman too since they're similar.

I.E. Cypher Grabbing

Only more reason for this warp to get patched out and not BSBS.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Yes. You can activate this in the air. You can score and instant KO if you're high enough and if you time your attack just right.

Though this may work in their favor too.

Not necessarily, because the enemy gets sent upwards at ground Spring height while we only get the aerial Spring height. So unless their Dair sends enemies up AND has a good reach, we're pretty much safe, I think. Also, seems like Uair2 can hit them just perfectly if you time it right.

 

[Kinetik07]

Now that you mention it, having an opponent land on an air spring seems kinda frame perfect too(it turns into a projectile real quick). Are we absolutely sure it was intentional? Because sometimes it just gets stuck in the ground at an angle and no tangibility, idk if it does that normally.

case in point:

Spoiler

 

[Camalange]

Now that you mention it, having an opponent land on an air spring seems kinda frame perfect too(it turns into a projectile real quick). Are we absolutely sure it was intentional? Because sometimes it just gets stuck in the ground at an angle and no tangibility, idk if it does that normally.

case in point:

Spoiler

Thanks for posting this...

IT HAPPENED THE OTHER DAY TO ME AND I WANTED TO SHARE IT WITH YOU ALL AND HAD NO IDEA HOW TO RECREATE IT BECAUSE WE SOMEHOW DIDN'T SAVE THE REPLAY AND I WAS FURIOUS

 

[Kinetik07]

It seems a lot of people forget to save their replays, they should have made it an option to save mid-match, like screenshots.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I thought that "Spring sharing" was a known thing already.

 

[Gregory2590]

I thought that "Spring sharing" was a known thing already.

what he said

10whathesaids

 

[Sonic Orochi]

OH, nvm, you guys were talking about the Spring landing on its side and getting stuck there..

Well, it's useless once it touches the ground, so why bother?

On a side note, SC stuff:

x charge(s) = x SCR hit(s) + transition hit (doesn't always occur because Sakurai) + Lyric Roll hit

x from 1 to 4.

Need people to try this out and confirm, pls.

 

[Gregory2590]

What distance you want us to work with? Sometimes, i'm getting 4 hits with one charge, sometimes 3. This is probably the "transition hit" issue you're talking about.

 

[Camalange]

Yes, I specifically meant the janky spring that gets left behind. Seems useless but is worth at least documenting as a glitch.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

What distance you want us to work with? Sometimes, i'm getting 4 hits with one charge, sometimes 3. This is probably the "transition hit" issue you're talking about.

Oh, sorry, I meant hits on shield, which is pretty much what we're probably gonna be hitting most of the time anyway. The distance shouldn't matter too much, as the hits seem heavily dependant on speed, rather than charges.

What I'm aiming for is timings of when it's better to press back to screech stop or to SCJ from a Lyric Roll, which should throw people's positioning off if they're used to Bairing OoS. I believe that pressing back right when the "transition hit" connects will lead into a screech stop, while doing that before that hit will result in a turnaround. The AVSDJ (almost VSDJ looool) seems to occur whenever you try jumping after the Lyric Roll hit (if it becomes somewhat useful, we could maybe call it LSJ - Lyric Spin Jump).

Also, we should use VSDJ more. For instance, I think charging a SD at the right distance when the opponent's hanging onto the ledge can pretty much cover all of their options:

• Roll/Attack: SDH to aerial;
• Getup/Attack: SDR to SDJ;
• Jump: VSDJ+aerial/HA;
• Fastfall, aerial onto stage: invincible SDH to aerial.

Then again, this is still just in theory.

---

Edit: Some Spin Jump shenanigans:

• SDJ horizontal distance depends a lot on its speed. Hitting the enemy with an uncharged SDR and then the SDJ will significantly shorten the jump's horizontal distance. At least about a halfway charge should be enough to get rid of the slow down;
• SCJ horizontal distance also depends on its speed but not by much. Hitting the enemy with an uncharged SCR and then the SCJ will also shorten its horizontal distance, but two SC charges should be enough to get rid of the slow down altogether;
• Because of this difference, the conclusion might be that it's easier to slow down a SDJ rather than a SCJ, but that's not always the case:
  • The SCJ will lose a lot of its horizontal distance should the SC hit the enemy/shield x times [x = number of charges. i.e.: 1 charge =>SCJ hit with no slowdown; 2 charges => 1 SC hit + SCJ hit with no slowdown];
  • This makes it easier to control the distance you want to travel with the SCJ: more SC hits, less distance and vice-versa;
  • The SDJ distance is harder to control due to its charging mechanics and the SD hitting only once.

This should be tested with SHSJ (short hop Spin Jumps) but.. dunno if it's even gonna make a difference, so maybe I'll see to that later lols

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

welp now i know what to use when someone respawns on BF just plant the spring double jump spring just as they land on it and KO them at 0%

 

[Kytos]

This just shows Sonic's peak power is yet to be reached!! Woohoo!!

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

until mewtwo comes out where they nerf us and mewtwo hard counters half the cast including sonic

 

[Camalange]

It's inevitable, really.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

hopefully the only nerf sonic gets is bthrow and maybe, juuust maybe they might buff utilt so it's either stronger, has less cooldown or both. Poor move is just butt. That or make it so dair spikes right from the start like it originally did back when they showed it for like 5 seconds in that smash direct.

Why characters like ZSS, sheik and even ganon can meteor smash with their dive kicks from the very beginning of the move but not sonic always angers me especially given that they opted to add in a sweepspot for the non meteor and a sourspot afterwards on top of making the meteor smash sweetspot super tiny.

But it's ironic that the only reason sonic's Bthrow kills the way it does is because people wanted vectoring removed which was the sole mechanic keeping that move in check. I still think the game was better off with vectoring over DI and that all the game needed was a adjustments in knockback for more combo's but oh well.

 

[Kytos]

hopefully the only nerf sonic gets is bthrow and maybe, juuust maybe they might buff utilt so it's either stronger, has less cooldown or both. Poor move is just butt. That or make it so dair spikes right from the start like it originally did back when they showed it for like 5 seconds in that smash direct.

Why characters like ZSS, sheik and even ganon can meteor smash with their dive kicks from the very beginning of the move but not sonic always angers me especially given that they opted to add in a sweepspot for the non meteor and a sourspot afterwards on top of making the meteor smash sweetspot super tiny.

But it's ironic that the only reason sonic's Bthrow kills the way it does is because people wanted vectoring removed which was the sole mechanic keeping that move in check. I still think the game was better off with vectoring over DI and that all the game needed was a adjustments in knockback for more combo's but oh well.

I have to disagree with you on the up tilt.

It's been working perfectly for me every time I use the neutral air at low percentages. It has a fair reach and decent knockback for follow ups. Though, I think BThrow will remain the same, because Toon Link's BThrow is 3 times more ridiculous. Lol

If they Nerf Sonic's, they'll have to Nerf Toon Link's as well.

Idk. Sonic's fine with me. The only thing they have to patch IMO is the BSBS mechanic.

Though, the more I think about it, the more I believe it was probably done for balance purposes.

You can SD>HA, then ASDCancel and SD again, and you can't HA again, but you can still use midair jump.

That's just me though.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

well it's not so much that utilt doesn't have it's uses but moreso that the move simply gets outclasses by other options in almost every scenario.

like you say you use nair into utilt at low % but you could simply nair > grab > pummel > uthrow for better damage and more followup potential. And in most situations where solo utilt is viable you could just short hop uair given that the uair comes out frame 5 as opposed to utilt which comes out frame 9 and even when factoring in the intital jump frames uair would most likely come out on the same frame and have more range, less cooldown (especially if you auto cancel the move afterwards) and lead into another uair at low % or simply reset the situation to your opponent being above you again which is what utilt would've done anyway except with the off chance of whiffing due to it's short horizontal range or leave you with more cooldown.

I'm not saying "Never use utilt ever as it's bad" just that the move can easily be substituted with other moves which is sad given that if the move simply had more KO power (especially when compared to other utilt sonic's is much more of a commitment) or less cooldown and base knockback the move could act as a combo starter and less like a weak combo ender/weak anti air.

 

[Camalange]

Utilt is pretty bad. When I find myself use it, I'm always impressed that 1 time I do per 100 matches because I'm like "Wow that was literally the only situation where Utilt was ideal."

Sometimes I just try to use it if I haven't yet in a set to catch people off guard... But even then might as well just go with the safer option, lol.

I have incredibly low expectations for BSBS getting patched. I think Bthrow is by far the most suspect, but I hope they don't... If they did, Sonic would drop for sure. It's his safest, most annoying KO option.

Also, I spoke with Kytos and I think before I release my ISDJ video, I'm going to do one on the Spring Warp Glitch just to get it out there. It's a funny little mechanic that does have interesting application and is a short enough topic to cover.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

we definitely should just make a video showcasing bugs/glitches that occur with sonic.

 

[Kytos]

In all honesty, I rarely find myself using BThrow for KOs.

I actually use BAir or sliding USmash most of the time.

Idk. I use Sonic in such a distinct way. Lol I need a review on it.

 

[Camalange]

If you're not Bthrowing, you're ****ing up.

 

[Gregory2590]

I remember when utilt was comboable after dtilt in brawl.




....that's all I remember using it for. Otherwise I just use it as a "lol don't try to jump the ledge on me" attack. It's not very practical but it's interesting to see what your opponent does.

Also, has anyone tried to experiment with ISDJ options when off the ledge? Most I can think of is following it up with a spike, but that's just messy.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Oh sonics spin charge dair setups are a whole other thing. Ive taken stocks at like 50 from spin charge dair spike to footstool because we have frame advantage on ht confirm.

 

[Camalange]

Footstool is practically guaranteed after Dair spike, which only further ensures death. I don't even know at what percent it stops working or even begins working, but it happens almost every time.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Starts working around 40% and ends at 87 or So vs most of the cast

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Messing around with SC/SD -> Dair setups. Fun!

SC to SCJ to Dair is pretty legit and I've managed to pull it off sometimes during real matches. Ezpz

I've never really tried to footstool after the Dair though. It would almost always happen by accident.. After seeing you guys discussing it, I've decided to try it out.

Turns out that we can control it pretty much 90% of the time. It all depends on the hit confirm from the meteor smash: if the enemy falls right in front of Sonic, simply tap jump and don't move the analog at all (maybe forward a little bit). You should footstool and then you can recover as usual.

If the enemy falls behind Sonic, hold back and keep tapping jump. The footstool should also occur and the same awesomeness should ensue.

However, I do NOT know if one can DI the meteor smash, so take this with a grain of salt.

Oh, and btw: SD to SDJ to Dair doesn't always work for this stuff but SD to SDJ to footstool to Dair does.

And then you can footstool after the Dair again. This, somehow, seems to work better than the SC version for lower percents.. I've managed to KO Sheik at 20% with this but when trying to do it with SC I can't seem to be able to footstool after the Dair at all.

 

[Camalange]

When characters bounce off our spring, is it a universal set height? Does it vary from character to character? Is weight a factor?

When I do the spring warp glitch to DK, Uair combos no matter what. However, against ZSS, the Uair only combos off a grounded spring warp and not an aerial one. Is the aerial bounce higher? Is it only connecting DK because of his larger hurtbox?

I want to make sure my facts are straight.

 

[Kytos]

When characters bounce off our spring, is it a universal set height? Does it vary from character to character? Is weight a factor?

When I do the spring warp glitch to DK, Uair combos no matter what. However, against ZSS, the Uair only combos off a grounded spring warp and not an aerial one. Is the aerial bounce higher? Is it only connecting DK because of his larger hurtbox?

I want to make sure my facts are straight.

I think it might depend on how fast the character's jump ascends, strangely enough.

Sheik, Fox, and Greninja definitely have the highest jump from the spring. Everybody else should give you around the same height. Sonic's aerial Spring Jump doesn't have as much height as grounded does, so that definitely plays a role as well.

I tried it on the Megaman stage, and measured their heights from their spawn point on the right, with the triangle/cone shaped top right above Dr. Wily's castle.

Though, you can hit both hits when using Aerial Spring with Kirby, Jiggs, and RosaLuma.

For the rest, grounded should be 2, and aerial should be 1.

The other three, well, too high. Lol

 

[Camalange]

I think it might depend on how fast the character's jump ascends, strangely enough.

Sheik, Fox, and Greninja definitely have the highest jump from the spring. Everybody else should give you around the same height. Sonic's aerial Spring Jump doesn't have as much height as grounded does, so that definitely plays a role as well.

I tried it on the Megaman stage, and measured their heights from their spawn point on the right, with the triangle/cone shaped top right above Dr. Wily's castle.

Though, you can hit both hits when using Aerial Spring with Kirby, Jiggs, and RosaLuma.

For the rest, grounded should be 2, and aerial should be 1.

The other three, well, too high. Lol

Well ****.

Maybe I'll explain it more vaguely in my video then LOL.

Just saying something along the lines of grounded and aerial spring heights being different and varying from character to character… Yeah… That'll do the trick.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

I developed off of that nair to up tilt combo Camalange seems to like. After you do the nair to up tilt, do a fair, and then another fair. This can do 40% if you time it right.