Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Zult]

I've been thinking about this. But since Corrin's fsmash has a hitbox in front of her while she's charging it you could space yourself when your opponent is on the ledge to charge your fsmash and let the hitbox in front of you cover the roll option. And since you can angle your fsmash up and down, you might be able to hit them when they jump from the ledge or if they stay on the ledge with no invincibility. If they do a neutral get up you can time your fsmash to hit them in their vulnerable frames. This could be really good if fsmash is safe from a distance on shield. This one set up is covering every option except for dropping from the ledge. But you can be able to punish their regrab if you're fast enough.

 

[Planty]

I've been thinking about this. But since Corrin's fsmash has a hitbox in front of her while she's charging it you could space yourself when your opponent is on the ledge to charge your fsmash and let the hitbox in front of you cover the roll option. And since you can angle your fsmash up and down, you might be able to hit them when they jump from the ledge or if they stay on the ledge with no invincibility. If they do a neutral get up you can time your fsmash to hit them in their vulnerable frames. This could be really good if fsmash is safe from a distance on shield. This one set up is covering every option except for dropping from the ledge. But you can be able to punish their regrab if you're fast enough.

Except down-angled F-smash hits below the ledge. It really does cover all the options except for just trying to wait the charge out. (Which depending on the timing might force the opponent to let go of the ledge to avoid the down-angled F-smash, only to regrab it and be hit with another)

 

[Latias]

I'm kind of nervous about his run/air speed. Slower characters just aren't that fun to me.

 

[Delzethin]

Thanks for the likes and feedback, everyone. The more (positive) exposure I can get, the better.

Nice video, but I wanted to point out one thing. When discussing Corrin's back air, you mentioned that neither character had a smoking effect, proving it to have strong killing power. While it may be a good kill move, we have reason to believe that certain character effects get edited out for the trailers. For example, in Greninja's trailer, he goes into his helpless state without the flashing that usually accompanies it. Furthermore, in Duck Hunt's trailer, he goes into his shielding pose without the shield actually showing up. It's possible that they also removed any instances of the rage effect to make the videos look nicer.

Like I said though, you're probably right about the back air being a kill move, otherwise they wouldn't have shown it killing in the trailer. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Yeah, I considered that...too far into the video's development to leave a blurb on it, unfortunately. But the fact that they specifically showed Corrin's bair killing means it'll still probably have decent kill power.

I think Corrin is going to have a super hard time killing rush-down characters, which tends to be a huge detriment in today's meta. Like others have stated, unless he has absurdly good frame data, he will likely be rushed-down and be unable to space well. I think this will especially be problematic when it comes to killing, as he needs to keep considerable space between him and his opponent in order for some of his strongest attacks to kill, meaning the opponent can stay in his face and there will be nothing he can do. This would be off-set if any of his specials/tilts (or his charging smash attack thing) act as good get-off-me type moves or is his grab is particularly quick, which is what I hope will be case.

Keep in mind, there's more to frame data than just having fast moves. The reason Ike is considered high tier now is because the combination of his attack speed, range, end lag, and landing lag allows him to keep opponents at arm's length, where he can hit them but they can't hit him. Compare to Shulk, who's been showing up in the bottom 15 of a lot of lists lately because his frame data doesn't let him keep opponents from getting in as easily, allowing him to get rushed down even by some of the other swordsmen!

Corrin won't need to have super quick startup on everything like Mario or Fox. It just needs to be enough to complement his range well, and his moves' ending lag or landing lag need to be reasonable enough to let his spacing tools do their job when used properly.

From the extremely limited knowledge we have, I'd put him around MK/Wario/Roy on the tier list.

That's...quite the range. Meta Knight's been sitting in the realm of 8th-12th on a lot of lists lately, with Wario usually sitting anywhere from 12 to 20, but nowadays Roy is considered mid tier at best, below Ike, Robin, and sometimes even Marth!

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Honestly, Corrin b-air is similar to Rosas Bair due to both moves having a huge hitbox, and the endlag when corrin landed with it seem similar to Rosas as well. This move obviously is going to be a great move to use in neutral and edgeguarding. The only move I dislike is Corrin's Dair, the stall then fall moves have never been a good move for any character that has it due to its predictability and endlag and the fact that corrins is a multihit makes it even worse. At least his other Air atks look promising

 

[Maraphy]

I would have preferred a dragon tail swipe in a downward arc, or his spiked legs protruding downward for a moment or something. I'm not a huge fan of the ninja drop kind of moves either, but luckily the rest of his moveset looks fun

 

[LordShade67]

Keep in mind, there's more to frame data than just having fast moves. The reason Ike is considered high tier now is because the combination of his attack speed, range, end lag, and landing lag allows him to keep opponents at arm's length, where he can hit them but they can't hit him. Compare to Shulk, who's been showing up in the bottom 15 of a lot of lists lately because his frame data doesn't let him keep opponents from getting in as easily, allowing him to get rushed down even by some of the other swordsmen!
That's...quite the range. Meta Knight's been sitting in the realm of 8th-12th on a lot of lists lately, with Wario usually sitting anywhere from 12 to 20, but nowadays Roy is considered mid tier at best, below Ike, Robin, and sometimes even Marth!

This. There is a reason Ike's considered a better character than Roy. But....that's a debate for elsewhere. Also, I chuckled at the "February can't come sooner" bit. Because you know what? You're right.

The only move I dislike is Corrin's Dair, the stall then fall moves have never been a good move for any character that has it due to its predictability and endlag and the fact that corrins is a multihit makes it even worse.

Greninja's footstool stuff would like a word with you.

 

[LancerStaff]

So, what's everybody's expectations on Corrin's viability? I'm preeetty doubtful to say the least but I'd like to hear a couple of opinions before I explain mine.

 

[LordShade67]

Being honest, kinda pointless to be predicting viability on a character we don't know enough about. But if I must, at least mid-ish. Sheik and Zamus will probably hold them back, but that's nothing new at this point.

 

[ARGHETH]

So, what's everybody's expectations on Corrin's viability? I'm preeetty doubtful to say the least but I'd like to hear a couple of opinions before I explain mine.

I think that he'll likely be more viable than Marth/Lucina and Roy, but I can't really judge anything else.

 

[meowmere]

I would have preferred a dragon tail swipe in a downward arc, or his spiked legs protruding downward for a moment or something. I'm not a huge fan of the ninja drop kind of moves either, but luckily the rest of his moveset looks fun

I feel the same about Corrin's d-air, but at least it seems like it doesn't have too much ending lag. Well, it looks cool, too, I guess, that's an advantage!
I find it interesting how people (including me sometimes) get hyped about stuff nobody would normally care about. For example, I am pretty curious about how Corrin's dragon form looks when using theír alternate costumes. All we know is that it does change, as seen in the clip in which Little Mac punches purple (FCorrin/Female Corrin/Famui) and we see her wings have also taken on a purple colour.

 

[teddystalin]

So, what's everybody's expectations on Corrin's viability? I'm preeetty doubtful to say the least but I'd like to hear a couple of opinions before I explain mine.

No one knows and anyone who claims to either has an agenda or a pet theory they're pushing. Expectations are presumably high because this is the character forum though... A lot of FE fans want a good and viable character who isn't Ike.

 

[Zult]

Honestly, Corrin b-air is similar to Rosas Bair due to both moves having a huge hitbox, and the endlag when corrin landed with it seem similar to Rosas as well. This move obviously is going to be a great move to use in neutral and edgeguarding. The only move I dislike is Corrin's Dair, the stall then fall moves have never been a good move for any character that has it due to its predictability and endlag and the fact that corrins is a multihit makes it even worse. At least his other Air atks look promising

If it's like Mii Swordsman's dair than it will actually be pretty decent.

 

[LancerStaff]

No one knows and anyone who claims to either has an agenda or a pet theory they're pushing. Expectations are presumably high because this is the character forum though... A lot of FE fans want a good and viable character who isn't Ike.

I get what you're saying but that pretty much shuts down all speculation... Just hoping we don't end up with a Mewtwo or Roy situation.

If it's like Mii Swordsman's dair than it will actually be pretty decent.

Swordfighter Dair isn't a stall then fall...

 

[Zult]

I get what you're saying but that pretty much shuts down all speculation... Just hoping we don't end up with a Mewtwo or Roy situation.



Swordfighter Dair isn't a stall then fall...

Welp, then nevermind. That's the only move of Corrin's I don't like or see me using more than once a match if that. There's only 2 ways I see this move being usable. It kills at 120% or below or the ending lag is so low it can be used every now and then and as a combo starter like Fox's dair in a way.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

This. There is a reason Ike's considered a better character than Roy. But....that's a debate for elsewhere. Also, I chuckled at the "February can't come sooner" bit. Because you know what? You're right.



Greninja's footstool stuff would like a word with you.

greninjas footstool combos is situational because you have to get the footstool. His dair by itself is bad due to endlag, I play against an amazing Greninja that that would do a dair into fast falling meteor uair to up smash, and knows the footstool combos and still beat him constantly through juggles and edgeguards. Point is, even greninja dair is not very good because all you do is either beat it with a well timed uair, or walk out of the way and punish the endlag with an upsmash.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

The divekick Dair might not be too bad if you look at the broader context. Stall-n'-falls kinda suck on characters like Toon Link and Bowser because they're predictable and reactable options when those characters are in a poor position above their opponents, attempting to land and avoid the juggle. But nobody really bemoans those moves when they're on Sheik or ZSS or Sonic. I'd wager that's because those characters have so many other options for getting out of those same juggle situations; fast low landing lag aerials that cover downward diagonals, burst mobility options with (undeserved) invincibility, and pure air speed for drifting. Kamui will at least have some semblance of these options, albeit probably not of the overtuned top-tier quality of the aforementioned (pray for good air speed people). She's got the momentum-boosting Bair for quick jukes and denying opponents approaching from behind, the quick start-up downward diagonal long-range aerial Side B that probably has good enough numbers to either threaten approaches from the direction Kamui is facing OR turn her around so she can Bair in the other direction, the Up B with decent enough angle control and side-facing hitboxes to serve as a last-ditch escape towards the ledge (let's hope her fast fall is good), the Down B counter for hard reads, the Marcina Fair, the good protective Nair... That looks to me like a pretty passable set of options for coping with disadvantage, and Dair is another one she can add to the mix under the correct circumstances.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Welp, then nevermind. That's the only move of Corrin's I don't like or see me using more than once a match if that. There's only 2 ways I see this move being usable. It kills at 120% or below or the ending lag is so low it can be used every now and then and as a combo starter like Fox's dair in a way.

Thats the problem though, since Corrins dair is a multihit, he will keep atking on the ground for a long time and when you use it, and they walk out of the way, they would then punish it with a charged fsmash, while your move is still going on. I guess they have to give Corrin some bad moves for balancing purposes because his other moves look really good.

I get what you're saying but that pretty much shuts down all speculation... Just hoping we don't end up with a Mewtwo or Roy situation.

Hopefully not, but he does seem to have more tools than those characters due to better range and a zss neutral b that would be a great combo starter to his other moves like grab, a smash or even side b for more combos.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

The divekick Dair might not be too bad if you look at the broader context. Stall-n'-falls kinda suck on characters like Toon Link and Bowser because they're predictable and reactable options when those characters are in a poor position above their opponents, attempting to land and avoid the juggle. But nobody really bemoans those moves when they're on Sheik or ZSS or Sonic. I'd wager that's because those characters have so many other options for getting out of those same juggle situations; fast low landing lag aerials that cover downward diagonals, burst mobility options with (undeserved) invincibility, and pure air speed for drifting. Kamui will at least have some semblance of these options, albeit probably not of the overtuned top-tier quality of the aforementioned (pray for good air speed people). She's got the momentum-boosting Bair for quick jukes and denying opponents approaching from behind, the quick start-up downward diagonal long-range aerial Side B that probably has good enough numbers to either threaten approaches from the direction Kamui is facing OR turn her around so she can Bair in the other direction, the Up B with decent enough angle control and side-facing hitboxes to serve as a last-ditch escape towards the ledge (let's hope her fast fall is good), the Down B counter for hard reads, the Marcina Fair, the good protective Nair... That looks to me like a pretty passable set of options for coping with disadvantage, and Dair is another one she can add to the mix under the correct circumstances.

I guess it can be used as a mix up, but we don't know yet with all these options. By the way, had any of you guys noticed that Corrins sword atks seem to have more range than marth and lucina moves. Like his sword range looks in between ike and marths overall range, which is awesome because finally we have a fast atking swordsman with a real sword, and not a joke of a sword thats the same length as a knife.

 

[OceloT42]

I guess it can be used as a mix up, but we don't know yet with all these options. By the way, had any of you guys noticed that Corrins sword atks seem to have more range than marth and lucina moves. Like his sword range looks in between ike and marths overall range, which is awesome because finally we have a fast atking swordsman with a real sword, and not a joke of a sword thats the same length as a knife.

true true at times I mistake Marth's sword for a sharpened fingernail.

 

[Athrel]

LancerStaff I'm usually pretty interested on what you have to say about the Pits so what are your full thoughts on Corrin's viability?

Personally, I'm worried about it as well. Both ground and air mobility seems to be lacklustre and while their frame data and range looks like it could be promising they might not necessarily outweigh that problem. I'm pretty curious and hopeful about the specifics of Dragon Lunge however. The front and back kicks seem to be decently fast and travel pretty far so I'm interested in seeing how well the move could work as bait if it's used without the intention hitting the opponent with the initial thrust. I'd also be interested in seeing if dragon fang shot's follow up can hit below the ledge for a potential two frame punish.

 

[LordShade67]

greninjas footstool combos is situational because you have to get the footstool. His dair by itself is bad due to endlag, I play against an amazing Greninja that that would do a dair into fast falling meteor uair to up smash, and knows the footstool combos and still beat him constantly through juggles and edgeguards. Point is, even greninja dair is not very good because all you do is either beat it with a well timed uair, or walk out of the way and punish the endlag with an upsmash.

Just saying that Greninja's DAir is SLIGHTLY more useful than most other DAirs. You really have no reason to be using DiveKick DAirs other than.....I dunno......being disrespectful or something?

Marth

I thought it was well known at this point that Marth's range didn't get nerfed outside of FSmash and some other move I forgot. It's just some of his hitboxes are....unfinished.

Anyways, the move I'm currently curious about is PSYCHO CRUSHA! Aka Dash Attack. It seems to come out fast and cover distance, but are there any viable multi-hit Dash Attacks in the current meta? If it's useful, it'll make Corrin the only FE character besides Ike with a threatening burst option.

 

[LancerStaff]

The divekick Dair might not be too bad if you look at the broader context. Stall-n'-falls kinda suck on characters like Toon Link and Bowser because they're predictable and reactable options when those characters are in a poor position above their opponents, attempting to land and avoid the juggle. But nobody really bemoans those moves when they're on Sheik or ZSS or Sonic. I'd wager that's because those characters have so many other options for getting out of those same juggle situations; fast low landing lag aerials that cover downward diagonals, burst mobility options with (undeserved) invincibility, and pure air speed for drifting. Kamui will at least have some semblance of these options, albeit probably not of the overtuned top-tier quality of the aforementioned (pray for good air speed people). She's got the momentum-boosting Bair for quick jukes and denying opponents approaching from behind, the quick start-up downward diagonal long-range aerial Side B that probably has good enough numbers to either threaten approaches from the direction Kamui is facing OR turn her around so she can Bair in the other direction, the Up B with decent enough angle control and side-facing hitboxes to serve as a last-ditch escape towards the ledge (let's hope her fast fall is good), the Down B counter for hard reads, the Marcina Fair, the good protective Nair... That looks to me like a pretty passable set of options for coping with disadvantage, and Dair is another one she can add to the mix under the correct circumstances.

The stall then fall Dairs suck even on the top tiers, although Sonic's is usable because it can autocancel or be used reasonably offstage with the help of a spring. I mean, most swordsmens' Dairs suck anyway.

By the way, had any of you guys noticed that Corrins sword atks seem to have more range than marth and lucina moves. Like his sword range looks in between ike and marths overall range, which is awesome because finally we have a fast atking swordsman with a real sword, and not a joke of a sword thats the same length as a knife.

Marth, Lucina, Ike, Cloud, and the Pits have largely the same amount of range on their moves. Marth only had a noticeable range nerf on two moves from Brawl, too. Also have my doubts on the theorized speed of his attacks... Trailers always lie.

LancerStaff I'm usually pretty interested on what you have to say about the Pits so what are your full thoughts on Corrin's viability?

Personally, I'm worried about it as well. Both ground and air mobility seems to be lacklustre and while their frame data and range looks like it could be promising they might not necessarily outweigh that problem. I'm pretty curious and hopeful about the specifics of Dragon Lunge however. The front and back kicks seem to be decently fast and travel pretty far so I'm interested in seeing how well the move could work as bait if it's used without the intention hitting the opponent with the initial thrust. I'd also be interested in seeing if dragon fang shot's follow up can hit below the ledge for a potential two frame punish.

Well, I'm seeing similarities to Zelda. Dragon's Breath is undeniably slow, but looks powerful. I don't think it'll be useful in neutral whatsoever, even with the paralysis. Either way it looks like you'd have to be dumb to get hit by it. Dragon Lunge (wasn't it Dragon Lance?) is essentially a tether grab and looks laggy if it hits the ground. I don't see it having particularly fast startup and beating shields, so either one or the other. I'd bet the later but there's no telling either way. Fsmash looks powerful for reasons you guys presumably already know, but that's kinda a problem... (Also doubt the charging hitbox properly links into the main attack but that's not my point.)

These are all very powerful and fairly safe FFA tools. Zelda has Din's Fire, Phantom Slash, and Faeroa's Wind. (...However you spell it.) All of which are, again, powerful and fairly safe FFA tools. Zelda's gameplan is to keep at a distance and keep throwing these moves out, so to balance this they make it so she can't fight in close quarters worth a damn. Corrin looks to be going down this road. I mean, Zelda's bottom tier and hasn't had any meaningful changes in patches. With Corrin they basically only have one shot, regardless of if there'll be another patch after he comes out since I doubt the final patch will have any big changes.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

The stall then fall Dairs suck even on the top tiers, although Sonic's is usable because it can autocancel or be used reasonably offstage with the help of a spring. I mean, most swordsmens' Dairs suck anyway.



Marth, Lucina, Ike, Cloud, and the Pits have largely the same amount of range on their moves. Marth only had a noticeable range nerf on two moves from Brawl, too. Also have my doubts on the theorized speed of his attacks... Trailers always lie.



Well, I'm seeing similarities to Zelda. Dragon's Breath is undeniably slow, but looks powerful. I don't think it'll be useful in neutral whatsoever, even with the paralysis. Either way it looks like you'd have to be dumb to get hit by it. Dragon Lunge (wasn't it Dragon Lance?) is essentially a tether grab and looks laggy if it hits the ground. I don't see it having particularly fast startup and beating shields, so either one or the other. I'd bet the later but there's no telling either way. Fsmash looks powerful for reasons you guys presumably already know, but that's kinda a problem... (Also doubt the charging hitbox properly links into the main attack but that's not my point.)

These are all very powerful and fairly safe FFA tools. Zelda has Din's Fire, Phantom Slash, and Faeroa's Wind. (...However you spell it.) All of which are, again, powerful and fairly safe FFA tools. Zelda's gameplan is to keep at a distance and keep throwing these moves out, so to balance this they make it so she can't fight in close quarters worth a damn. Corrin looks to be going down this road. I mean, Zelda's bottom tier and hasn't had any meaningful changes in patches. With Corrin they basically only have one shot, regardless of if there'll be another patch after he comes out since I doubt the final patch will have any big changes.

What are you talking about, dragon fang shot has almost the same start up and endlag as zss paralzer. its faster than that god awful dins fire. Plus I was judging actual gameplay of Corrin in his presentation and not the trailer. Also, Zeldas defensive game is actually pretty good, she just can't approach or force approaches with her slow and predictable projectiles. Plus having character flaws. Corrin obviously doesn't have these flaws and I think hes at least mid tier material and not bottom tier!

 

[OceloT42]

Just saying that Greninja's DAir is SLIGHTLY more useful than most other DAirs. You really have no reason to be using DiveKick DAirs other than.....I dunno......being disrespectful or something?


I thought it was well known at this point that Marth's range didn't get nerfed outside of FSmash and some other move I forgot. It's just some of his hitboxes are....unfinished.

Anyways, the move I'm currently curious about is PSYCHO CRUSHA! Aka Dash Attack. It seems to come out fast and cover distance, but are there any viable multi-hit Dash Attacks in the current meta? If it's useful, it'll make Corrin the only FE character besides Ike with a threatening burst option.

mega man has a multi hit dash attack
also sometimes I find marth's range frustrating...

 

[sunfallSeraph]

The stall then fall Dairs suck even on the top tiers, although Sonic's is usable because it can autocancel or be used reasonably offstage with the help of a spring. I mean, most swordsmens' Dairs suck anyway.

Didn't mean to allege that those moves are good aside from perhaps Sonic as you mentioned. Just that together with the rest of their kits, Dair is at least a usable mix-up that you'll see top players pull out every once in a while when they've conditioned their opponents to expect other more defensive options. That's a narrow use-case for sure, but we're hardly talking about Sing or Jet Hammer here. I'll be optimistic and hope that the same can be said for Kamui once we get to know her.

I'm erring on the side of optimism with this character in general, largely because they're DLC and there's been a noticeable power creep on DLC newcomers. We only have Ryu and Cloud to sample from so far, true, but come on. They're Ryu and Cloud. It's hard for me to look at them and not think that their kits were designed from the ground up with knowledge of this game's meta and what characters need to really succeed in it. It wouldn't have been a ton of foresight with Ryu, since he was probably started no later than the December 2014 timeframe, but... I still think there's a strong case for arguing that DLC newcomers are being built to last, not to mention tuned pretty highly. I'll be very surprised if Sakurai and company picked up Kamui and thought "You know what this game needs? Another offensively undertuned kit that hinges on unreliable sweetspots! Zelda hasn't emerged from the depths after three games, but I'm sure all her design needs is a little disjoint and a neat gimmick to really take off! That'll get the kids tearing down the eShop for this character who is unknown to an entire region."

Hyperbole, but you get the point. Such optimism could turn out to the be entirely baseless, of course, and perhaps Kamui will flop tragically in the face of our new Umbra Witch overlords. But I don't wanna doomsay for a character I'm excited for. Not just yet, anyways.

 

[Zult]

LancerStaff I'm usually pretty interested on what you have to say about the Pits so what are your full thoughts on Corrin's viability?

Personally, I'm worried about it as well. Both ground and air mobility seems to be lacklustre and while their frame data and range looks like it could be promising they might not necessarily outweigh that problem. I'm pretty curious and hopeful about the specifics of Dragon Lunge however. The front and back kicks seem to be decently fast and travel pretty far so I'm interested in seeing how well the move could work as bait if it's used without the intention hitting the opponent with the initial thrust. I'd also be interested in seeing if dragon fang shot's follow up can hit below the ledge for a potential two frame punish.

Pit has great ground mobility to help his bad air mobility. Also multiple jumps (the reason why all multiple jumping characters have bad air mobility except jigglypuff) to bait out things sometimes. Also his grab game is excellent. Combo throws until very high percent, jab lock set ups at low percent from throws. And a kill throw at super high percents around 130%. A great throw with his great ground mobility works amazingly together. Bottom of the high tier or top of the mid tiers imo. Which is why I'm scared for Corrin's throws. The only thing I'm worried about. If Corrin's throws do nothing and she has nothing that kills people at 60% then I don't see Corrin being better than Pit. Especially Dark Pit whose side b kills at 80 now near the ledge.

 

[OceloT42]

Didn't mean to allege that those moves are good aside from perhaps Sonic as you mentioned. Just that together with the rest of their kits, Dair is at least a usable mix-up that you'll see top players pull out every once in a while when they've conditioned their opponents to expect other more defensive options. That's a narrow use-case for sure, but we're hardly talking about Sing or Jet Hammer here. I'll be optimistic and hope that the same can be said for Kamui once we get to know her.

I'm erring on the side of optimism with this character in general, largely because they're DLC and there's been a noticeable power creep on DLC newcomers. We only have Ryu and Cloud to sample from so far, true, but come on. They're Ryu and Cloud. It's hard for me to look at them and not think that their kits were designed from the ground up with knowledge of this game's meta and what characters need to really succeed in it. It wouldn't have been a ton of foresight with Ryu, since he was probably started no later than the December 2014 timeframe, but... I still think there's a strong case for arguing that DLC newcomers are being built to last, not to mention tuned pretty highly. I'll be very surprised if Sakurai and company picked up Kamui and thought "You know what this game needs? Another offensively undertuned kit that hinges on unreliable sweetspots! Zelda hasn't emerged from the depths after three games, but I'm sure all her design needs is a little disjoint and a neat gimmick to really take off! That'll get the kids tearing down the eShop for this character who is unknown to an entire region."

Hyperbole, but you get the point. Such optimism could turn out to the be entirely baseless, of course, and perhaps Kamui will flop tragically in the face of our new Umbra Witch overlords. But I don't wanna doomsay for a character I'm excited for. Not just yet, anyways.

looks like kamui will have no problems at close quarters with her tilts and jab...
I'm more interested in the viability of dragon fang shot

 

[WhiteMageBD]

looks like kamui will have no problems at close quarters with her tilts and jab...
I'm more interested in the viability of dragon fang shot

Look at Zss paralzer, is it viable, YES, Dragon Fange Shot is almost the same move. so Yes it will be viable. Im very confident with the move. and if its not, Sakurai will just patch it to give it less endlag if it does have a lot of endlag

 

[theyellowflash26]

Thats the problem though, since Corrins dair is a multihit, he will keep atking on the ground for a long time and when you use it, and they walk out of the way, they would then punish it with a charged fsmash, while your move is still going on. I guess they have to give Corrin some bad moves for balancing purposes because his other moves look really good.
.

I don't think that's how it will work. The multi hit is probably only in the air. I doubt it will keep attacking the ground, He prolly will just hit the ground like any other dive kick move.


And yeah, if ZSS can use Paralyzer to great effect, Corrin shouldn't have an issue, bc Paralyzer is pretty slow on startup AND endlag. I think it will be fine.

 

[Zult]

Didn't mean to allege that those moves are good aside from perhaps Sonic as you mentioned. Just that together with the rest of their kits, Dair is at least a usable mix-up that you'll see top players pull out every once in a while when they've conditioned their opponents to expect other more defensive options. That's a narrow use-case for sure, but we're hardly talking about Sing or Jet Hammer here. I'll be optimistic and hope that the same can be said for Kamui once we get to know her.

I'm erring on the side of optimism with this character in general, largely because they're DLC and there's been a noticeable power creep on DLC newcomers. We only have Ryu and Cloud to sample from so far, true, but come on. They're Ryu and Cloud. It's hard for me to look at them and not think that their kits were designed from the ground up with knowledge of this game's meta and what characters need to really succeed in it. It wouldn't have been a ton of foresight with Ryu, since he was probably started no later than the December 2014 timeframe, but... I still think there's a strong case for arguing that DLC newcomers are being built to last, not to mention tuned pretty highly. I'll be very surprised if Sakurai and company picked up Kamui and thought "You know what this game needs? Another offensively undertuned kit that hinges on unreliable sweetspots! Zelda hasn't emerged from the depths after three games, but I'm sure all her design needs is a little disjoint and a neat gimmick to really take off! That'll get the kids tearing down the eShop for this character who is unknown to an entire region."

Hyperbole, but you get the point. Such optimism could turn out to the be entirely baseless, of course, and perhaps Kamui will flop tragically in the face of our new Umbra Witch overlords. But I don't wanna doomsay for a character I'm excited for. Not just yet, anyways.

Exactly. Who ever makes the DLC characters aren't stupid. They know exactly what a character needs in order to be good. Cloud and Ryu are both top tier material. The ONLY reason cloud will never be top tier imo though is because of that awful recovery. But even with that he's still high tier. If any other character had a recovery like that they would be low tier no questions asked. If you ask me, I see bayonetta being top 3 character and Corrin being top 15 if the trend continues. If they were to keep making DLC characters until the next smash game, you would slowly see the power creep while other characters becoming irrelevant.

When I saw the Cloud trailer, I must admit I thought he was just going to be another ike with some stupid little mac charge gimmick. Oh how wrong I was. Cloud ended up being 3x faster than I thought and the gimmick ended being borderline OP. Simply charging your limit forces people to approach and if you land any of the limit attacks then you're in a really good spot. So while I admit, some things in the Corrin/Bayonetta trailer look gimmicky, don't be surprised if they are way more powerful than you thought. And if anything, I expect Corrin to be even faster and more powerful than she looks. No one thought Ryu would be killing at 60 with 2 frame confirms. No one though cloud would have set ups into limit break moves that kill below 80 and one of the best anti air up air in the game from the trailer. So if the history of Smash 4 dlc characters taught me anything, is that it will be okay to be a little optimistic. If we get good grabs (because I honestly don't see Corrin killing at 60) we're in there. My guess is they gave Cloud and Ryu bad grabs because giving them that would be overkill. But we'll see. Still around a month left. I hope she's released early Feb. instead of late.

 

[OceloT42]

Look at Zss paralzer, is it viable, YES, Dragon Fange Shot is almost the same move. so Yes it will be viable. Im very confident with the move. and if its not, Sakurai will just patch it to give it less endlag if it does have a lot of endlag

I wanna know how the bite works
is it if the opponent is close? Or is it a separate button press? Or is it present at all times?

 

[LordShade67]

I hope she's released early Feb. instead of late.

IIRC, Sakurai mentioned being able to play them before Fates' release over here, which is the 19th.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

I wanna know how the bite works
is it if the opponent is close? Or is it a separate button press? Or is it present at all times?

Go watch Corrins presentation again when Sakurai talks about the songs, you will see Corrin fire the neutral b at Ryu and have a good idea of how the move works.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

IIRC, Sakurai mentioned being able to play them before Fates' release over here, which is the 19th.

Yay, that means Corrin will be out at Feb 1-18. However, He likes to release dlc characters at the middle of the week, so Tuesday -Thursday.

 

[OceloT42]

Go watch Corrins presentation again when Sakurai talks about the songs, you will see Corrin fire the neutral b at Ryu and have a good idea of how the move works.

still can't figure it out pls help ;_;

 

[WhiteMageBD]

still can't figure it out pls help ;_;

look closely at Corrin, he does the bite regardless if someone is there or not. so when you charge the b move, he does it automatically

 

[Zult]

still can't figure it out pls help ;_;

https://youtu.be/_qj8O07Kg_I?t=277

A separate button press I think that can also be charged. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[OceloT42]

look closely at Corrin, he does the bite regardless if someone is there or not. so when you charge the b move, he does it automatically

so, no follow-ups apart from bites? There must be...

 

[Zult]

He does a nair after here in this clip