Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[WhiteMageBD]

so, no follow-ups apart from bites? There must be...

theres follow ups for sure, look at how long Ryu is paralyzed, thats more than enough time for almost any move to be used to be honest.

 

[Maraphy]

I feel the same about Corrin's d-air, but at least it seems like it doesn't have too much ending lag. Well, it looks cool, too, I guess, that's an advantage!
I find it interesting how people (including me sometimes) get hyped about stuff nobody would normally care about. For example, I am pretty curious about how Corrin's dragon form looks when using theír alternate costumes. All we know is that it does change, as seen in the clip in which Little Mac punches purple (FCorrin/Female Corrin/Famui) and we see her wings have also taken on a purple colour.

I can't believe Ridley's finally gonna be in the game

 

[IndigoSSB]

so, no follow-ups apart from bites? There must be...

Depends on how long it stuns them for, it's hard to tell from the trailer because we don't know how damaged the opponents are. My biggest worry is the fact that it's a charge shot, how much will we need to charge it for it to be useful? It's probably safe to assume a completely uncharged shot is weaker than ZSSs's paralyzer. Although at very high percent the sky's the limit, IF you can land it.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Depends on how long it stuns them for, it's hard to tell from the trailer because we don't know how damaged the opponents are. My biggest worry is the fact that it's a charge shot, how much will we need to charge it for it to be useful? It's probably safe to assume a completely uncharged shot is weaker than ZSSs's paralyzer. Although at very high percent the sky's the limit, IF you can land it.

Sakurai is obviously testing this, he would most likely increase the stun time if its too short.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

He does a nair after here in this clip

To be honest, I'm not seeing any guaranteed followups from that. Most of the time Ryu is stunned, Kamui appears to be stuck in endlag; I suspect that animation is actually the uncharged bite, and that there is in fact no way to get out of committing to that followup. I was afraid that would be the case, and if it's true, it pretty much hits the nail in the coffin for Neutral B being a versatile projectile ala ZSS. There does seem to be time to at least chase and put on some pressure though, so it probably won't be a completely useless move. I think LancerStaff was on the money about not pulling this one out in neutral though, looks highly punishable on whiff if not shield.

 

[Zult]

theres follow ups for sure, look at how long Ryu is paralyzed, thats more than enough time for almost any move to be used to be honest.

Getting hit by that projectile at decently high percents should be certain death from a good semi charged smash attack. I can see Corrin being good at crushing noobs like Ness in a way because one slight mistake will cost a stock. As long as Corrin doesn't move as slow as Robin or Ganandorf, how could you not follow up from that. You don''t even have to hit them while they are stunned. You can follow the DI of the opponent after the hitstun is over and hit them with something like an up b if it kills.

 

[Zult]

To be honest, I'm not seeing any guaranteed followups from that. Most of the time Ryu is stunned, Kamui appears to be stuck in endlag; I suspect that animation is actually the uncharged bite, and that there is in fact no way to get out of committing to that followup. I was afraid that would be the case, and if it's true, it pretty much hits the nail in the coffin for Neutral B being a versatile projectile ala ZSS. There does seem to be time to at least chase and put on some pressure though, so it probably won't be a completely useless move. I think LancerStaff was on the money about not pulling this one out in neutral though, looks highly punishable on whiff if not shield.

Well, ZSS' paralyzer isn't really safe in neutral either. She will get bodied by an air approach while doing it. Also, Corrin's projectile can definitely be safe up close. Think of the mix ups like Link's forward smash. He hits you with the first one and people still hold their shield being afraid of the second one coming. So you can throw this out up close and probably will hit someone with the bite afterwards if they drop their shield trying to punish you. And if they hold their shield, then you won't even have to do the bite and back away. I still think it will have follow ups, just maybe not from across the stage.

 

[LancerStaff]

What are you talking about, dragon fang shot has almost the same start up and endlag as zss paralzer. its faster than that god awful dins fire. Plus I was judging actual gameplay of Corrin in his presentation and not the trailer. Also, Zeldas defensive game is actually pretty good, she just can't approach or force approaches with her slow and predictable projectiles. Plus having character flaws. Corrin obviously doesn't have these flaws and I think hes at least mid tier material and not bottom tier!

Fun Fact: Default Guardian Orbitars (Pit's Dspecial) at one point had super armor and a damaging hitbox in development, but now it has neither. This was shown of in "real footage" and not a trailer. I mean, take all the frame data stuff with a grain of salt.

That and ZSS's stun gun works because she has ways to force people closer with her grab and Zair, namely the grab because it beats shields. If Corrin's Fspecial doesn't beat shields then there's not much stopping people from just shielding everything of his, making his Nspecial moot. It's not just going to be an upgrade of ZSS's Nspecial.

Zelda's only good at stopping characters with bad approaches already and really only works with hard reads. I mean, how do you know Corrin isn't going to be weak up close?

Didn't mean to allege that those moves are good aside from perhaps Sonic as you mentioned. Just that together with the rest of their kits, Dair is at least a usable mix-up that you'll see top players pull out every once in a while when they've conditioned their opponents to expect other more defensive options. That's a narrow use-case for sure, but we're hardly talking about Sing or Jet Hammer here. I'll be optimistic and hope that the same can be said for Kamui once we get to know her.

I'm erring on the side of optimism with this character in general, largely because they're DLC and there's been a noticeable power creep on DLC newcomers. We only have Ryu and Cloud to sample from so far, true, but come on. They're Ryu and Cloud. It's hard for me to look at them and not think that their kits were designed from the ground up with knowledge of this game's meta and what characters need to really succeed in it. It wouldn't have been a ton of foresight with Ryu, since he was probably started no later than the December 2014 timeframe, but... I still think there's a strong case for arguing that DLC newcomers are being built to last, not to mention tuned pretty highly. I'll be very surprised if Sakurai and company picked up Kamui and thought "You know what this game needs? Another offensively undertuned kit that hinges on unreliable sweetspots! Zelda hasn't emerged from the depths after three games, but I'm sure all her design needs is a little disjoint and a neat gimmick to really take off! That'll get the kids tearing down the eShop for this character who is unknown to an entire region."

Hyperbole, but you get the point. Such optimism could turn out to the be entirely baseless, of course, and perhaps Kamui will flop tragically in the face of our new Umbra Witch overlords. But I don't wanna doomsay for a character I'm excited for. Not just yet, anyways.

Most people play FFAs, so naturally balancing the game for that makes sense. You could apply your idea so that they should make all the newcomers/DLC good, but they obviously didn't. I mean, Ryu pretty much had to be good in 1v1s. (His throws are powerful FFA tools for a reason, yaknow.) Cloud I think lucked out and there's reason to believe he'll get hit with the nerf bat even if he doesn't deserve it in the strictest sense... Don't think he's spectacular myself.

They're not just going to go and make Zelda++ when Zelda's already a strong FFA character.

Exactly. Who ever makes the DLC characters aren't stupid. They know exactly what a character needs in order to be good. Cloud and Ryu are both top tier material. The ONLY reason cloud will never be top tier imo though is because of that awful recovery. But even with that he's still high tier. If any other character had a recovery like that they would be low tier no questions asked. If you ask me, I see bayonetta being top 3 character and Corrin being top 15 if the trend continues. If they were to keep making DLC characters until the next smash game, you would slowly see the power creep while other characters becoming irrelevant.

When I saw the Cloud trailer, I must admit I thought he was just going to be another ike with some stupid little mac charge gimmick. Oh how wrong I was. Cloud ended up being 3x faster than I thought and the gimmick ended being borderline OP. Simply charging your limit forces people to approach and if you land any of the limit attacks then you're in a really good spot. So while I admit, some things in the Corrin/Bayonetta trailer look gimmicky, don't be surprised if they are way more powerful than you thought. And if anything, I expect Corrin to be even faster and more powerful than she looks. No one thought Ryu would be killing at 60 with 2 frame confirms. No one though cloud would have set ups into limit break moves that kill below 80 and one of the best anti air up air in the game from the trailer. So if the history of Smash 4 dlc characters taught me anything, is that it will be okay to be a little optimistic. If we get good grabs (because I honestly don't see Corrin killing at 60) we're in there. My guess is they gave Cloud and Ryu bad grabs because giving them that would be overkill. But we'll see. Still around a month left. I hope she's released early Feb. instead of late.

Like I said, I don't think the Cloud hype will last, and remember that Mewtwo and Lucas were absolutely pathetic when they first came out. Now they and Roy are meh at best. Two newcomers being good isn't exactly a pattern either...

Getting hit by that projectile at decently high percents should be certain death from a good semi charged smash attack. I can see Corrin being good at crushing noobs like Ness in a way because one slight mistake will cost a stock. As long as Corrin doesn't move as slow as Robin or Ganandorf, how could you not follow up from that. You don''t even have to hit them while they are stunned. You can follow the DI of the opponent after the hitstun is over and hit them with something like an up b if it kills.

If you're planning on using it as a punish to connect into a charged Smash, well, probably won't end well because vectoring an Electrical hit downward reduces the initial stun significantly.

 

[Zult]

I dunno man. Nairo losing to a Cloud, and witnessing first hand Trela beat the best sheik in Texas with cloud doesn't sound like just hype to me. Cloud has almost everything a good character needs.

And definitely see a pattern. Explain to me why veteran DLC characters are mid tier (low high tier at best) and new DLC characters being top tier killing at 60. They don't have the restrictions of following some design in older games. They can make the character based on this game's meta. With a team balancing and patching things, they for sure what makes a character good or bad. Otherwise they wouldn't have gave like 5+ characters hoo-hahs to make them better.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Fun Fact: Default Guardian Orbitars (Pit's Dspecial) at one point had super armor and a damaging hitbox in development, but now it has neither. This was shown of in "real footage" and not a trailer. I mean, take all the frame data stuff with a grain of salt.

That and ZSS's stun gun works because she has ways to force people closer with her grab and Zair, namely the grab because it beats shields. If Corrin's Fspecial doesn't beat shields then there's not much stopping people from just shielding everything of his, making his Nspecial moot. It's not just going to be an upgrade of ZSS's Nspecial.

Zelda's only good at stopping characters with bad approaches already and really only works with hard reads. I mean, how do you know Corrin isn't going to be weak up close?




His tilts and air atks have good speed and range, he can just wall people out like Rosalina and Brawl Marth. Thats how. Also, they can give him grab combos you know. Having good grabs discourages shielding a lot anyway because people don't want to be grabbed and be combo food.

 

[ARGHETH]

I dunno man. Nairo losing to a Cloud

Wasn't he just doing that to gain data? I remember people saying that he 3-0'd Cloud with D.Pit then went ZSS to learn how to play against him for Genesis 3.
Also, matchup inexperience goes a long way here. Cloud's been out for less than a month, after all. Didn't Trela do stuff with Mewtwo when he first came out?
Also, didn't Trela win a tournament using default Mii Swordsman a while back?

 

[Zult]

Wasn't he just doing that to gain data? I remember people saying that he 3-0'd Cloud with D.Pit then went ZSS to learn how to play against him for Genesis 3.
Also, matchup inexperience goes a long way here. Cloud's been out for less than a month, after all. Didn't Trela do stuff with Mewtwo when he first came out?
Also, didn't Trela win a tournament using default Mii Swordsman a while back?

You can also say that tweek wasn't an expert Cloud at the time either. Also I'm sure Tweek didn't know the ZSS Cloud match up either. This is Nairo's ZSS here we're talking about. Not exactly the easiest thing to beat with a week old character.

I'll admit though that Trela is an outlier. But he was 3stocking Texas' BEST sheik with Cloud. How is that only hype? I myself getting 7th in 50man tournies playing with Cloud waiting for Corrin to be released.

 

[theyellowflash26]

https://youtu.be/_qj8O07Kg_I?t=277

A separate button press I think that can also be charged. Correct me if I'm wrong

I'm thinking it might be a separate button press too. In that clip, for the first shot, he doesnt even bite after it.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Most people play FFAs, so naturally balancing the game for that makes sense. You could apply your idea so that they should make all the newcomers/DLC good, but they obviously didn't. I mean, Ryu pretty much had to be good in 1v1s. (His throws are powerful FFA tools for a reason, yaknow.) Cloud I think lucked out and there's reason to believe he'll get hit with the nerf bat even if he doesn't deserve it in the strictest sense... Don't think he's spectacular myself.

They're not just going to go and make Zelda++ when Zelda's already a strong FFA character.

It's possible. I don't see the appeal in dropping a DLC character who blows as hard as Zelda does in 1v1s because they were balanced to be good in FFAs, but that's pretty much the point: I'm not part of the general audience who cares about FFA balance. But we'll see. All we can do is hope that the devs have made it a priority to tune the character well for all game modes, or at least the ones that we care about.

If we are gonna make Zelda allusions re: Kamui's moveset though, I'm seeing shades of Phantom in the Neutral B. Really elaborate special that just doesn't make sense in a 1v1 context. Unless they add some IASA to the paralyzer shot, there's no immediate reward proportionate to the risk of throwing it out unless you land it when the opponent is right in front of you. Kinda like charging up a slow ass projectile with a million years of endlag that gets beaten by shield and leaves you wide open. I'll give you a FFA point on that one, lol.

Like I said, I don't think the Cloud hype will last, and remember that Mewtwo and Lucas were absolutely pathetic when they first came out. Now they and Roy are meh at best. Two newcomers being good isn't exactly a pattern either...

I can let the DLC vets slide due to being mostly shackled to designs that are very old and were built on a very old engine (Lucas is newer, but it's not like he was any sort of juggernaut in Brawl either). Roy got the Falco/Luigi/Tink treatment and still came out somewhat mediocre yes, but one could argue that's more a result of attachment to his core gimmick than design philosophy within the team at the time. ...I'm not GOING to argue it, but you could. :b

 

[ARGHETH]

You can also say that tweek wasn't an expert Cloud at the time either. Also I'm sure Tweek didn't know the ZSS Cloud match up either. This is Nairo's ZSS here we're talking about. Not exactly the easiest thing to beat with a week old character.

I'll admit though that Trela is an outlier. But he was 3stocking Texas' BEST sheik with Cloud. How is that only hype? I myself getting 7th in 50man tournies playing with Cloud waiting for Corrin to be released.

The problem is, Nairo had essentially no high-level Cloud experience at the time, while Tweek had at least been practicing Cloud for a while.

Isn't Trela also Texas' best player? A while ago he'd play mid/low tier characters (I remember Shulk and pre-patch Robin) and do well with them.

I'm thinking it might be a separate button press too. In that clip, for the first shot, he doesnt even bite after it.

Well, he sort of closes the mouth thing afterwards, but I'm not really sure if that's a bite or not.

 

[LancerStaff]

I dunno man. Nairo losing to a Cloud, and witnessing first hand Trela beat the best sheik in Texas with cloud doesn't sound like just hype to me. Cloud has almost everything a good character needs.

And definitely see a pattern. Explain to me why veteran DLC characters are mid tier (low high tier at best) and new DLC characters being top tier killing at 60. They don't have the restrictions of following some design in older games. They can make the character based on this game's meta. With a team balancing and patching things, they for sure what makes a character good or bad. Otherwise they wouldn't have gave like 5+ characters hoo-hahs to make them better.

Remember that Mewtwo and Palutena were wrecking house when they were new, and that Nairo basically threw the match so he could try silly stuff out in the matchup. Just wait for Genesis before jumping to any conclusions on Cloud...

Two characters isn't a pattern, and neither are the DLC veterans being all over the place.

I mean, really, anybody could of seen that the way they handled Zelda going into SSB4 wouldn't of helped her a lick. They neutered Lucas from Brawl for no apparent reason too. (He was solid in Brawl outside of having a horrible grab release animation IIRC.)

His tilts an air atks have good speed and range, he can just wall people out like Rosalina and Brawl Marth. Thats how.

Even if they do it literally doesn't matter if they don't deal enough damage. We're never seeing Brawl Marth return in any way, shape or form either.

It's possible. I don't see the appeal in dropping a DLC character who blows as hard as Zelda does in 1v1s because they were balanced to be good in FFAs, but that's pretty much the point: I'm not part of the general audience who cares about FFA balance. But we'll see. All we can do is hope that the devs have made it a priority to tune the character well for all game modes, or at least the ones that we care about.

I can let the DLC vets slide due to being mostly shackled to designs that are very old and were built on a very old engine (Lucas is newer, but it's not like he was any sort of juggernaut in Brawl either). Roy got the Falco/Luigi/Tink treatment and still came out somewhat mediocre yes, but one could argue that's more a result of attachment to his core gimmick than design philosophy within the team at the time. ...I'm not GOING to argue it, but you could. :b

Well, kinda agued it already...

 

[theyellowflash26]

Well, he sort of closes the mouth thing afterwards, but I'm not really sure if that's a bite or not.

It could be, but he usually swings his arm inward with the bite from what I've seen. But it could also just be a smaller bite due to the shot not being charged. Who knows?

 

[Delzethin]

To be honest, I'm not seeing any guaranteed followups from that. Most of the time Ryu is stunned, Kamui appears to be stuck in endlag; I suspect that animation is actually the uncharged bite, and that there is in fact no way to get out of committing to that followup. I was afraid that would be the case, and if it's true, it pretty much hits the nail in the coffin for Neutral B being a versatile projectile ala ZSS. There does seem to be time to at least chase and put on some pressure though, so it probably won't be a completely useless move. I think LancerStaff was on the money about not pulling this one out in neutral though, looks highly punishable on whiff if not shield.

On the other hand, the computer moves and acts pretty rigidly there--probably no stronger than a Level 5. Corrin even returns to his idle animation for a few frames before throwing out the short hop nair! I don't think that clip is any indicator of the FAF on Dragon Fang Shot whatsoever.

 

[theyellowflash26]

On the other hand, the computer moves and acts pretty rigidly there--probably no stronger than a Level 5. Corrin even returns to his idle animation for a few frames before throwing out the short hop nair! I don't think that clip is any indicator of the FAF on Dragon Fang Shot whatsoever.

On the assumption that its a cpu. Anything is in the air. For example, the bite could still be another input after the charge and not need to be done. Cpus do dumb stuff sometimes and they could also have just done the bite after the shot just because. Like in the first clip we see of DFS, where Corrin is using it on Diddy, we can assume its either being manually inputted or being programmed to work a certain way. When he first shoots it, there's no bite followup, but when they talk about it afterwards, there is one. It's very possible they're either two separate inputs, or you can choose to hold B longer to charge the bite.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

On the other hand, the computer moves and acts pretty rigidly there--probably no stronger than a Level 5. Corrin even returns to his idle animation for a few frames before throwing out the short hop nair! I don't think that clip is any indicator of the FAF on Dragon Fang Shot whatsoever.

True, there could very well be IASA on the move that the maybe-CPU isn't taking advantage of. I'm still concerned you're locked into at least the uncharged bite, but I'll concede that it's hard to tell from the trailer. It could well just be a dumb AI flubbing inputs. Let's hope it doesn't suck when we get to finally use it, whatever the case may be. (:

 

[PGP]

Thanks for the likes and feedback, everyone. The more (positive) exposure I can get, the better.


Yeah, I considered that...too far into the video's development to leave a blurb on it, unfortunately. But the fact that they specifically showed Corrin's bair killing means it'll still probably have decent kill power.


Keep in mind, there's more to frame data than just having fast moves. The reason Ike is considered high tier now is because the combination of his attack speed, range, end lag, and landing lag allows him to keep opponents at arm's length, where he can hit them but they can't hit him. Compare to Shulk, who's been showing up in the bottom 15 of a lot of lists lately because his frame data doesn't let him keep opponents from getting in as easily, allowing him to get rushed down even by some of the other swordsmen!

Corrin won't need to have super quick startup on everything like Mario or Fox. It just needs to be enough to complement his range well, and his moves' ending lag or landing lag need to be reasonable enough to let his spacing tools do their job when used properly.


That's...quite the range. Meta Knight's been sitting in the realm of 8th-12th on a lot of lists lately, with Wario usually sitting anywhere from 12 to 20, but nowadays Roy is considered mid tier at best, below Ike, Robin, and sometimes even Marth!

I'm not talking about his frame data in general, rather just how it relates to killing in rushdown MUs. Ike and Shulk have quick moves that kill from a close range, so it's inaccurate to compare them (in my hypothetical situation where Corrin must keep the opponent at a fixed distance fairly far from him in order to kill). Of course, if he had another good kill move then what I said would likely be untrue.

And Roy below Robin and Marth and Wario near the 20s??? Are you using Eventhubs? I guess I meant towards the top of high tier (near where you put MK) ,which is where I thought I had consistently seen Wario and Roy, too, but perhaps I just haven't been keeping up with more recent tier lists.

 

[False Sense]

I'm not talking about his frame data in general, rather just how it relates to killing in rushdown MUs. Ike and Shulk have quick moves that kill from a close range, so it's inaccurate to compare them (in my hypothetical situation where Corrin must keep the opponent at a fixed distance fairly far from him in order to kill). Of course, if he had another good kill move then what I said would likely be untrue.

And Roy below Robin and Marth and Wario near the 20s??? Are you using Eventhubs? I guess I meant towards the top of high tier (near where you put MK) ,which is where I thought I had consistently seen Wario and Roy, too, but perhaps I just haven't been keeping up with more recent tier lists.

Yeah... Roy's not up there.

 

[ARGHETH]

And Roy below Robin and Marth and Wario near the 20s??? Are you using Eventhubs? I guess I meant towards the top of high tier (near where you put MK) ,which is where I thought I had consistently seen Wario and Roy, too, but perhaps I just haven't been keeping up with more recent tier lists.

Uhh...Eventhubs generally puts Roy where you want him...General consensus on Smashboards is that Roy's mid/low mid. He's definitely not better than Robin. Wario was never at the top of high tier either; he's mostly near the bottom of the "viable" tier, whatever you think that is.

 

[Delzethin]

I'm not talking about his frame data in general, rather just how it relates to killing in rushdown MUs. Ike and Shulk have quick moves that kill from a close range, so it's inaccurate to compare them (in my hypothetical situation where Corrin must keep the opponent at a fixed distance fairly far from him in order to kill). Of course, if he had another good kill move then what I said would likely be untrue.

If you're talking about Ike's bair, it does come out quick (Frame 7), but it hits hard both from close range and a decent distance away. I'm not sure what move of Shulk's reliably kills that early and comes out that fast, unless you're talking about his dthrow with Monado Smash active. It remains to be seen what kill options Corrin will have at close range (aside from his bair and landing a DFS on an opponent close by), so you have a point in that regard, but it's not as if Corrin will need to land a tipped smash to get kills. He isn't Marth, after all.

And I still think it's more likely than not that Corrin's uthrow will be a decent kill throw, at least enough to be able to fall back on the way R.O.B. can with his...

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Remember that Mewtwo and Palutena were wrecking house when they were new, and that Nairo basically threw the match so he could try silly stuff out in the matchup. Just wait for Genesis before jumping to any conclusions on Cloud...

Two characters isn't a pattern, and neither are the DLC veterans being all over the place.

I mean, really, anybody could of seen that the way they handled Zelda going into SSB4 wouldn't of helped her a lick. They neutered Lucas from Brawl for no apparent reason too. (He was solid in Brawl outside of having a horrible grab release animation IIRC.)



Even if they do it literally doesn't matter if they don't deal enough damage. We're never seeing Brawl Marth return in any way, shape or form either.



Well, kinda agued it already...

Im not too confident of having brawl Marth either, but at least Corrin has the potential to be viable and have a good chance of winning tournaments consistently compare to both Marth and Lucina who have almost no chance because both are unviable characters.

 

[Zult]

The first thing I'm trying out when Corrin is released is fair. Going to compare her fair to Marth's. And if it has more range, then I will be comparing her fair to Sheik's.

 

[IndigoSSB]

The first thing I'm trying out when Corrin is released is fair. Going to compare her fair to Marth's. And if it has more range, then I will be comparing her fair to Sheik's.

First thing I'm trying out his is Fsmash. It would be amazing in a janky way if it covered every option at the ledge, although it looks like it might not angle high enough to cover the jump.

 

[ShadowKing]

I think he's/her's neutral b will be the main kill move up close

 

[LordShade67]

Psycho Crusher-I mean Dash Attack, oddly enough. Mostly to see if we get a second FE character with a useful one.

Oh, and the mandatory throw stuff.

 

[Zult]

I think he's/her's neutral b will be the main kill move up close

Upsmash maybe?

 

[ShadowKing]

Upsmash maybe?

Yeah neutral b because the "chomp" at the end of the move but upsmash hopefully

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Psycho Crusher-I mean Dash Attack, oddly enough. Mostly to see if we get a second FE character with a useful one.

Oh, and the mandatory throw stuff.

Speaking of, Kamui's dash attack sticks out as really odd; this must be an animation specifically seen in Fates, right? I have a hard time following how Sakurai would have conceived this move otherwise. Is Kamui suddenly the drill that will pierce the heavens? I mean, this doesn't appear to have anything to do with dragon transformations, she just straight up says '**** gravity, eat my drill sword *****'.

 

[LordShade67]

Speaking of, Kamui's dash attack sticks out as really odd; this must be an animation specifically seen in Fates, right? I have a hard time following how Sakurai would have conceived this move otherwise. Is Kamui suddenly the drill that will pierce the heavens? I mean, this doesn't appear to have anything to do with dragon transformations, she just straight up says '**** gravity, eat my drill sword *****'.

Since it's Sakurai, who knows. I just call it that since it's the first thing to come to MY mind.

Spoiler

 

[OceloT42]

Speaking of, Kamui's dash attack sticks out as really odd; this must be an animation specifically seen in Fates, right? I have a hard time following how Sakurai would have conceived this move otherwise. Is Kamui suddenly the drill that will pierce the heavens? I mean, this doesn't appear to have anything to do with dragon transformations, she just straight up says '**** gravity, eat my drill sword *****'.

YAY A GURREN LAGANN FAN
Personally I am Ok with this dash attack,at least its better than "small swipe in front of my nose"
Looking at you, Lucimarth

 

[OceloT42]

I just noticed that most of Kamui's attacks are to immobilise or generally keep opponents at arms length...
Fsmash,Usmash,have solid range
Dragon Fang Shot immobilises them
Dragon Lunge immobilises them and allows you to follow with a swift kick,a speedy escape,a leap out of danger,or a hopeful tech chase.
Aerials and tilts are all "stay away from me" moves
Even Counter Surge is a "stop that ****" move
Liking Kamui more every day....

 

[LancerStaff]

Im not too confident of having brawl Marth either, but at least Corrin has the potential to be viable and have a good chance of winning tournaments consistently compare to both Marth and Lucina who have almost no chance because both are unviable characters.

People said the same exact thing with Roy and were disappointed pretty heavily. Just don't go pinning your hopes and dreams on the character because we don't need another raving lunatic on patch day.

I just noticed that most of Kamui's attacks are to immobilise or generally keep opponents at arms length...
Fsmash,Usmash,have solid range
Dragon Fang Shot immobilises them
Dragon Lunge immobilises them and allows you to follow with a swift kick,a speedy escape,a leap out of danger,or a hopeful tech chase.
Aerials and tilts are all "stay away from me" moves
Even Counter Surge is a "stop that ****" move
Liking Kamui more every day....

I mean, we just had a discussion about defensive characters in the competitive impressions thread the other day.

And it was pretty apparent how terrible they all are outside of a select few. Currently batting like 4 of 15 so far depending on how you stretch it.

 

[Delzethin]

Speaking of, Kamui's dash attack sticks out as really odd; this must be an animation specifically seen in Fates, right? I have a hard time following how Sakurai would have conceived this move otherwise. Is Kamui suddenly the drill that will pierce the heavens? I mean, this doesn't appear to have anything to do with dragon transformations, she just straight up says '**** gravity, eat my drill sword *****'.

I want to say Corrin can do that as a crit animation? That's only what I've heard, though; I don't have definitive proof and that was why I didn't mention it in the video.

People said the same exact thing with Roy and were disappointed pretty heavily. Just don't go pinning your hopes and dreams on the character because we don't need another raving lunatic on patch day.

A lot of Roy's hype came from the fact that he was a fairly straightforward character who was available as soon as he was revealed and was notably better than his previous appearance. You had people freaking out about his fsmash, but the smarter players quickly realized that its high kill power meant little when using it meant you had to land a Frame 16 move at point blank range. Some freaked out about how fast he was and how you could angle Blazer now and how safe on shield Flare Blade was, but then his poor neutral game, poor grab game, inability to kill reliably until high percents, and gimpable recovery came to light.

We may be theorizing here, but the fact that we still have at least another month to wait means we have time to temper our expectations. Notice how the prevailing thought here about Corrin's viability is "probably mid tier at least with the tools he has, but we don't know enough to say exactly"?

I mean, we just had a discussion about defensive characters in the competitive impressions thread the other day.

And it was pretty apparent how terrible they all are outside of a select few. Currently batting like 4 of 15 so far depending on how you stretch it.

Must you do this in here, too? Your comments in the video article were one thing, but actively searching out a character's supporters to bash them? I get that you have a chip on your shoulder, but what purpose does it serve to take it out on the rest of us?

 

[OceloT42]

People said the same exact thing with Roy and were disappointed pretty heavily. Just don't go pinning your hopes and dreams on the character because we don't need another raving lunatic on patch day.



I mean, we just had a discussion about defensive characters in the competitive impressions thread the other day.

And it was pretty apparent how terrible they all are outside of a select few. Currently batting like 4 of 15 so far depending on how you stretch it.

Kamui has defensive options,but somehow I dont think she'll be relying too much on them...
Probably going on offensive too like MK
And I don't really mind the competitive viability as long as she isn't outright useless,I just really like dragons and Arceus and Fire Emblem...Lucky combo,eh?

 

[LordShade67]

Roy

I dunno. We have folks once in awhile who still think Roy's good. Ironic considering in the same patch Roy was released, Ike ended up getting buffed to viable tier.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

I want to say Corrin can do that as a crit animation? That's only what I've heard, though; I don't have definitive proof and that was why I didn't mention it in the video.


A lot of Roy's hype came from the fact that he was a fairly straightforward character who was available as soon as he was revealed and was notably better than his previous appearance. You had people freaking out about his fsmash, but the smarter players quickly realized that its high kill power meant little when using it meant you had to land a Frame 16 move at point blank range. Some freaked out about how fast he was and how you could angle Blazer now and how safe on shield Flare Blade was, but then his poor neutral game, poor grab game, inability to kill reliably until high percents, and gimpable recovery came to light.

We may be theorizing here, but the fact that we still have at least another month to wait means we have time to temper our expectations. Notice how the prevailing thought here about Corrin's viability is "probably mid tier at least with the tools he has, but we don't know enough to say exactly"?



Must you do this in here, too? Your comments in the video article were one thing, but actively searching out a character's supporters to bash them? I get that you have a chip on your shoulder, but what purpose does it serve to take it out on the rest of us?

Couldn't agree more and well spoken!