Move Set: Changes, Custom, Nerfs, and More!

[pupNapoleon]

We finally have our Mr. Shining Armour confirmed! And doesn't he look dapper, everyone!
He has been, next to Ganondorf, perhaps the most discussed character when it comes to changes that must take place to his move set, at least when it comes to power.

In Brawl, he was... a little bit... some might say... incredibly.... insanely... far too overpowered.

We have already seen a change to his shuttle loop announced, ta-da, no more gliding!
What are some other changes you either have noticed, would like to see, or otherwise want to point out when it comes to our meta marauder?

It seems likely, or rather necessary, that he will be nerfed. Kirby was top dog in SSB64, and in Melee....
Then we have Jigglypuff from Melee to Brawl....

All characters also have CUSTOM MOVES. What might Meta Knights be?

CONFIRMED CHANGES

Shuttle Loop

Spoiler

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Did any of you all notice that none of his pictures had the Mach Tornado...?
Could it be that it was replaced with something else and turned into his Final Smash, much like how it was performed in Super Star Ultra as his Super Attack???

 

[SmashShadow]

Shuttleloop isn't as safe now because glide is gone and probably won't have as much KO power with it being 2-hit now.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Yeah, we already know Shuttle Loop's changed considerably. There's definitely more nerfs and alterations to come.

Meta Knight's overall playstyle is probably gonna have the biggest change of all from Brawl's cast...

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The mobility nerf to his Shutte Loop is very significant, and I guess the damage and knockback has been leveled out between two hits now which is also a VERY important nerf. I guess now it at least won't be the best attack in the entire damn game.

The complete removal of gliding also hurts him a lot as that was a big part of his safe plays.

Definitely betting on a Mach Tornado nerf too.

 

[Exate]

Yeah, we already know Shuttle Loop's changed considerably. There's definitely more nerfs and alterations to come.

Meta Knight's overall playstyle is probably gonna have the biggest change of all from Brawl's cast...

Honestly, I'll be surprised if it's as drastic as the changes made to Bowser. Drill rush looks to have returned, and that might be him using dimensional cape's slash on Mega Man in that third pic.

If Meta is rolling mach tornado again, it definitely needs to have its priority cut down from what it was in Brawl. Sakurai will probably give us a little bit of info on him in the next PotD or two. Maybe.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Did any of you all notice that none of his pictures had the Mach Tornado...?

I could be very wrong here, but I thought this might have been it:

 

[SmashShadow]

I could be very wrong here, but I thought this might have been it:

That definitely looks like his down B.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

That definitely looks like his down B.

Yeah I guess he normally looks and holds his sword upwards when using the 'nado, doesn't he? I was mainly basing it off the orange lines that weren't the slash, which appear to circle around him.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

i just ant his down air to be the dive he does in every frekin` kirby game he is in

 

[Baskerville]

Did any of you all notice that none of his pictures had the Mach Tornado...?
Could it be that it was replaced with something else and turned into his Final Smash, much like how it was performed in Super Star Ultra as his Super Attack???

If anything Tornado would just be nerfed.

 

[Mamp]

I don't think anyone doubts that MK will get some serious nerfs in SSB4. We already know that he can no longer glide, but how else do you think he will be nerfed?

 

[ProjectAngel]

Longer landing lag on his aerials, methinks. When you have a character like MK that can throw out rapid-fire attacks like nobody's business and recover from them quickly, you know you have a troublesome character.

Less priority on his attacks is also needed.

 

[ProjectAngel]

MK's likely to retain his moveset from Brawl, only with serious changes like longer endlag and less priority.

 

[UberMadman]

More knockback on moves such as his up aerial that make them not so ridiculously easy to combo into each other, knockback nerfs on some of his actual K.O. moves because Shuttle Loop was ridiculous, they already cut gliding so I don't need to mention that, and some kind of Mach Tornado nerf.

I don't want him to be too nerfed though, I'm a huge Kirby fan and I was stoked for Meta Knight's inclusion in Brawl, and still enjoy playing as him to this day, despite how clearly broken he is. But I need to swallow my pride for the good of the meta.

 

[Master Raven]

Make tornado less stupid (or get rid of it altogether) and don't give all 3 hits of his ftilt IASA frames cuz that was pretty stupid too.

 

[Aninymouse]

i just ant his down air to be the dive he does in every frekin` kirby game he is in

I came here to post this. Here's hoping, right?

 

[Bedoop]

As we (hopefully) all know, Sakurai has stated that Meta Knight's Up B is more "Technical" now, instead of the "Power" type of move that SSBB had it to be. Some calling this a nerf, but I honestly think it's a revamp.
What if Meta Knight was changed to a Technical Character, along the lines of Fox, Pikachu, ect.
I know Meta Knight has no projectiles, but he doesn't really need any (Sword Beams would be icing on our cake, though) to be a new Technical Fighter.
So what do you think? Discuss it!

 

[Jester Kirby]

Tornado wasn't even the biggest problem, so much as the insane priority and lack of end lag on his aerials. Shuttle loop change was definitely in the right direction, they are probably going for a weaker recovery overall. MK will be a tricky one, you want to nerf him to make him fair but you don't want to just bury him into the ground.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Tornado needs to be nerfed somewhat, and there's a decent chance he'll get the Marth treatment as far as landing lag from aerials go. Really the loss of gliding and planking alongside nerfed Shuttle Loop ought to keep him from being as dumb as he was in Brawl, and the increased prevalence of armor in the game should make his priority less of an issue. The loss of hitstun cancelling should limit his ability to abuse Brawl's momentum cancelling to live longer than he should. He'll probably need somewhat increased lag on a number of his moves, as the nerfs already present in the game primarily reduce the MK player's margin for error without changing the fact that his moves have such low lag that he's very difficult to punish if played properly.

 

[Frank Weast]

This honestly has me stumped because there is no gameplay for him yet. But he could be a lot like zero for umvc3 and be a great combo and cross up character with lots of different approach tools if he is drastically changed of course

 

[SaturnFrost]

Into the Ground hopefully.
Ending lag on everything so its not insanely safe. Him having little risk on so many high reward attacks is what made him such a broken turd in brawl.

 

[a Link to the Forums]

A technical MK is not out of the question and, personally, I like it! Give MK more weaknesses and more chances to stuff up, unlike his brawl appearance where people constantly spammed tornado.

I don't believe a lack of projectile means he's not going to be more technical. Marth's tipper for example provides some extra layer to make the combat more technical because of the need to space.

Edit: Does MK's dimensional cape look more powerful too?

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Nerf the following:
-Shuttle Loop(low knock back)
-Down Smash(slower)
-Nair(less damage and slight lower knock back)
-Tornado(doesn't suck the opponent in. Make it like Project M tornado)

Remove his transetting priority in all of his moves and MK all of a sudden becomes balanced.

Mk should be a small, light character who can combo greatly and be a aerial killer and sort of of a ground based character but he should have very low knock back to balance him out.

Giving him both powerful aerial game and ground games as well as powerful recovery was just too much!

 

[Sol0ke]

Considering what Sakurai did with the Brawl veterans, I'm confident he won't go overboard with the nerfs.

 

[Rockaphin]

I doubt he'll really be nerfed at all.

 

[Mr. Johan]

No reason to neuter him straight to the ground. If anything just adjust him similar to Brawl Falco or Brawl Marth - enough tweaks to the moveset to set him apart from his Brawl incarnation, but still have what he needs to be a high tier threat.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

It's several months too early to make a judgement on this. The only thing we can be certain of is that his recovery will be different; without gliding, it's likely his horizontal recovery isn't as good, but his vertical recovery may have been improved.

Beyond that, we really don't know anything.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It's several months too early to make a judgement on this. The only thing we can be certain of is that his recovery will be different; without gliding, it's likely his horizontal recovery isn't as good, but his vertical recovery may have been improved.

Beyond that, we really don't know anything.

Actually it's only one month too early, as soon as we have any kind of gameplay, which we surely will have on the 13th next month, we can begin figuring out how he plays.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Since his glide's gone, we already know he's lost a huge chunk of his horizontal recovery and stalling power. But will it be enough?

Hopefully the duration of Mach Tornado and Drill Rush will be reduced as well, like in PM and SSF2.

 

[Luigi player]

Well, his shuttle loop should be worse now without the glide, no normal glide hurts him as well. And then we have the new ledge mechanic who doesn't make him almost unbeatable there.

Those are pretty good nerfs if you ask me. Not sure if he'll get more, but his tornado should be changed a little bit. Although I do think it wouldn't be as broken this time around even if it stays the same...

 

[Bowserlick]

A focus on making each special move a recovery with a different strength is a start.

Dimensional cape is shorter, but can be a KO move.

Shuttle Loop covers quite a distance (even without the glide), but in a peculiar fashion so stage layout may matter.

Mach Tornado has a lot of play of where one can move. Versatile in direction. But it should not have super priority. Make it weak, but faster.

His drill attack covers horizontal distance and can rack up damage.

 

[Deleted member]

Like a few people have already said he doesn't need to be nerfed into the ground so hard that he's a few inches away from getting to China, just enough to make him fair but still a viable fighter that can stand up against the rest of the cast. Change his crazy priority, Mach Tornado, and give him less knockback on his moves, and I would say he wouldn't be anywhere near as broken as he is in Brawl.

 

[Shuckle89]

I had so hoped for metaknight to be in it ;( Well, I hope they'll nerf him so much no one picks him anymore. He was always my least favorite opponent. For some reason I thought I had heard somewhere he wouldn't be in it.

But, that aside, I think the removal of gliding hurts him pretty bad already. However, seeing how most chars got buffed, I think he'd be already kind of okay if he didn't get nerfed. As long as he didn't get buffed either.

 

[MegaAmoonguss]

I feel like his specials might be nerfed in a similar way that Project M did it. This way they're still usable and good for recovery and such but not nearly as broken as Brawl. And definitely make him not such an incredibly fast air fighter next to the rest of the cast, just like people have already mentioned.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I think this is what happened

Im not sure if this was a quote but.

Meta Knight's Up Special Move, Shuttle Loop, changed quite a bit in this game. The glide is gone, and the attack slashes opponents twice while spinning in a large loop. This has turned into a highly technical and effective move

 

[Hong]

@ Bedoop
I merged your thread with the "How will MK be nerfed?" thread. That said, the thesis of your opening post and the title was more constructive, so I have changed the title of @ Mamp 's thread to be all-encompassing, as I do agree it's more about design philosophy than just raw nerfs.

 

[Karonax]

I feel like he just needs some priority reductions, some more end-lag on his moves, some weaknesses to compensate for his strengths (Think Olimar's new recovery), and better speed-to-power ratio as his kill moves were very low-risk-high-reward.

He's a fun character, he needs to be mitigated but not reduced to outright uselessness, a balance of what he does well in addition to some situations he has to be careful about.

Edit: With heavy characters having godly knockback coupled with super armor, a Meta Knight rushing down a Bowser could easily see himself eating a smash attack and dying early with his relatively light weight. That may help to even him out at a bit as well, in addition to the new ledge grab mechanics.

As the focus of the new meta game shifts, Meta Knights strengths may not end up being what makes a character good in Smash 4, he very well may not be the monster he was in Brawl even if he's only lightly adjusted, Brawl's meta just lended itself to Meta Knight being all the better.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Actually it's only one month too early, as soon as we have any kind of gameplay, which we surely will have on the 13th next month, we can begin figuring out how he plays.

I mean that it's going to be several months before we can determine if he's actually nerfed; though this might sound like a nerf, after some playing, he might still be top tier. We won't know until a couple of months of actually playing the game.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I mean that it's going to be several months before we can determine if he's actually nerfed; though this might sound like a nerf, after some playing, he might still be top tier. We won't know until a couple of months of actually playing the game.

That's actually very true. Meta Knight wasn't considered top tier until M2K brought him to tourneys, before that Snake placed at the top of every tournament. So yeah, you're right.