Morrigan
/!\<br>\¡/
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2006
- Messages
- 18,681
Enough with that joke
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Most Technical Characters
- Thread starter sFoster
- Start date
Toadster5
Smash Journeyman
Ice Climbers are the only technical characters in this game in my opinion.
Blad01
Smash Lord
... A lot of people don't know all the characters, so it's hard to say for them (me included : I don't know Link's AT by example)
boom-man97
Smash Journeyman
i vote snake.
Johnthegalactic
Smash Lord
ROB=most technological character
Classic Yayo
Smash Cadet
Grandeza
Smash Master
Lirok
Smash Journeyman
Lovage 805
Smash Champion
i'm pretty sure nothing "technical" in brawl comes even close to melee tech skill
Lirok
Smash Journeyman
i GUESS this is what the thread is about lol
but seriously, your comment was irrelivant to the entire point to this thread
Steamroll3929
Smash Cadet
I would say Lucario. He has a steep learning curve and there are a lot of fun comboes that you can do at various percentages because of his increasing power. Also it's pretty dang hard to consistantly wall cling to the space below final destination from all angles and directions during the heat of the match. Also there is the force palm chain grab, and knowing when to double team. As far as advanced techniques theres always galloping or extreme hogging. Just tring to throw Lucario into the ring here.
Falcon. You have to be extremely technical to be able to rip Brawl from the disc, edit it to make Falcon useable, and then sneak 1,000,000,000,000,000 copies of your new version into houses all over the world. That's how you play Falcon.
This argument is played out, stupid, can be combated by bringing other fighting games up, and I am feeding a troll.
The Link player there needs to, uh, learn the community's terminology...
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Hmm, I really can't say for sure as I don't know every little detail about every single character but I would imagine Zamus, peach and the ice climbers would be very high in the technical list.
Edit: Lol at Keykid ideas why CF is the most.
Edit: Lol at Keykid ideas why CF is the most.
SHined BLind
Smash Apprentice
Probably Ice Climbers: De-syncing, that one edge physics exploit (does it have a name?/), chain-grabs, the list goes.
1170
Smash Apprentice
The Ice Climbers, by far. Their insane chaingrabs require lots of technical skill, de-syncing is hard, and there's two of them.
Second most? Tough one. In my not-worth-much opinion, I'd say TLink.
Least? Ike.
Second most? Tough one. In my not-worth-much opinion, I'd say TLink.
Least? Ike.
All of these combo's are great for link ..etc
I actually know of a bunch for Zelda that aren't posted anywhere, but I don't think quantity really justifies anything here.
Some of Zelda's moves demand a highly technical level of play in regards to your spacing.
For example, Zelda can teleport without ANY lag if you appear on the lip of a cliff.
For edge guarding, this can result in the instant execution of any move you want.
If you miss the edge and teleport too far.. you die.
It seems Zelda demands the greatest degree of precision, and has some of the hardest moves to pull off in the game.
This moves gets even more difficult if you're in the air...
Another extremely difficult one..
Try landing her U-Air on mario when he is standing on the ground.. especially during combat.
U-Air is her next best kill move besides the lightening kicks.
I actually know of a bunch for Zelda that aren't posted anywhere, but I don't think quantity really justifies anything here.
Some of Zelda's moves demand a highly technical level of play in regards to your spacing.
For example, Zelda can teleport without ANY lag if you appear on the lip of a cliff.
For edge guarding, this can result in the instant execution of any move you want.
If you miss the edge and teleport too far.. you die.
It seems Zelda demands the greatest degree of precision, and has some of the hardest moves to pull off in the game.
This moves gets even more difficult if you're in the air...
Another extremely difficult one..
Try landing her U-Air on mario when he is standing on the ground.. especially during combat.
U-Air is her next best kill move besides the lightening kicks.
Browny
Smash Hater
de syncing is as easy as jumping and using neutral b?
and thier chain grabs are hard, but just like any other technique like boost smashing with sonic and shiek, its not that difficult in comparison.
id say ike is kind of technical since you cant just fsmash and win, its near impossible to land on good opponents. marth however is the exact opposite, you can spam his sword and remain almost untouchable with his huge range. not to mention insta-counter
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Snake isn't technical.
Melee Fox was technical.
Melee Fox was technical.
KRDsonic
Smash Master
Uhh... no. Jumping and using neutral B doesn't desync them at all. If it was almost everyone would use them. There are a lot of ways to start a desync though, but a lot of them are useless when you're in the middle of fighting. You can use your Up B, to desync, but then your opponent can hit you. You can really only use the quick methods which take a while to learn and pull off, and then you have to stay desynced. After learning all of that, you need to learn what to do when you're desynced, since it's pointless to be desynced if you don't know any good combos for what to do.
Next, there is chain grabbing, which is the hardest thing in this game to perfect. You can't just practice against a random character in training mode one day and have their 0% death grabs mastered. You have to learn the timing of each throw individually, and there are a lot of those that you have to use to keep one chain going. One you finally master a 0% death grab against one character, then you've done just that, learned how to do it against ONE character. The timing is different for each character, and certain chain throws don't work as well against some (like the forward throw against meta knight). So you have to spend all of your time to learn the throws against all 39 of the characters (including a solo Ice Climber, who, in the right hands, can be just as deadly as two of them).
Now that you know all of that, you need to learn to incorporate all of this into battles, and you need to learn while fighting other people (not computers) how to set yourself up to perform your combos. You need to learn how to grab your opponent with nana also by you without your opponent taking advantage of what youo're doing, since it's really hard to grab with them against someone who knows what they're doing. You also have to get used to dodging/blocking early so that Nana's shield comes out before she gets hit.
You also need to learn how to play a solo Ice Climbers, otherwise you're not going to last long without Nana. This means you need to learn how to dodge every attack that comes at you and be able to get in an attack whenever you possibly can.
Now, after you learn all of this, you still have the normal fighting with them that people that never use them do. Even with normal fighting you still have certain combos and strategies that you need to learn to fight efficiently (as with every other character). All together, learning how to play them should take about 100+ hours to master. I've been working on them for a long time (50 hours so far at least) and I'm still learning new combos and techniques with them.
Anyways, that's just my oppinion about why they are the most technical character in the game, there is a lot more to them than just chain grabbing and desyncing than people think, and there's even more to chain grabbing and desyncing than most people realize.
Some characters that I'd say aren't very technical are: Pit, Ike, Bowser, and Yoshi, all characters that I use every now and then (Pit and Yoshi are two of my mains too). Pit especially isn't technical, I hardly ever use him and yet I can beat people who are really good at this game with him. There just isn't much to him, learn all of his moves and their ranges and stuff and then you're set.
Boxob
Smash Champion
IC have the desync, which means more than just chain grabs, but over all more depth. Which makes them the most difficult to use to their full potential.
Sonic too. No chain grabs, no priority, barely any range, nothing impressive besides recovery. He's very difficult to play well.
Sonic too. No chain grabs, no priority, barely any range, nothing impressive besides recovery. He's very difficult to play well.
Snail
Smash Lord
Probably the Ice Climbers with all of their chaingrabs/desync things.
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
Pit, anyone?
Pit Specific Advance Techniques
Pit Specific Advance Techniques
- Arrow Blitzing
- Arrow Chasing http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162317
- Arrow Looping
- Arrow Swarming http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160400
- Glide Canceling
- Glide Hopping http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=159654
- Glide Shifting http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153924
- Gliding http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148297
- Infinite Jump (Wing Refresh + Wing Renewal) http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158530
- SHFairWoI (Short Hop Forward Air Wings of Icarus)
- Slide Stepping http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158057
- Super Armor http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155934
- Wave Gliding
- Wing Canceling http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161972
- Wing Fatigue
- Wing Lunging
- Wing Refreshing
- Wing Renewal http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163450
- Wing Shoving http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162716
- Z Canceling
Doval
Smash Lord
Just because Pit has the most tricks, it doesn't make him the most technical...Fox had exactly one major trick up his sleeve - the waveshine - and that made him the most technical character in Melee. Most of those Pit tricks or techs pale in comparison to playing Ice Climbers to their full potential in my opinion.
Boxob
Smash Champion
Agreed. Full potential IC would be scary stuff. D:
Sliq
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 4,871
Ganondorf.
SH auto cancel dair, bair, upair (bair can be fast falled).
Murder Kick Cancel, Murder Fist Recovery, Run off ledge non-ff's dair, drop of ledge to dair and fair onto the stage. 1 Frame aerial Murder Kick. Going straight up with his recovery (i.e. not turning around, but trying not to get gimped by FD). Jump off ledge immediate over b (diminished landing lag). Tip man spike. Drop off ledge up air over b insta re-grab. Full hop doule dair. Up smash canceling. Pivot smash, double pivot smash.
Did I make my point?
SH auto cancel dair, bair, upair (bair can be fast falled).
Murder Kick Cancel, Murder Fist Recovery, Run off ledge non-ff's dair, drop of ledge to dair and fair onto the stage. 1 Frame aerial Murder Kick. Going straight up with his recovery (i.e. not turning around, but trying not to get gimped by FD). Jump off ledge immediate over b (diminished landing lag). Tip man spike. Drop off ledge up air over b insta re-grab. Full hop doule dair. Up smash canceling. Pivot smash, double pivot smash.
Did I make my point?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
;D fortunately melee IC players who were used to desynching find more freedom in brawl for desynchs since blizzards can be used separately, and the timing is easier overall
TOO GOOD!
though, i must say, i FEEL more technical when i'm playing sheik...
but that's probably because i'm too used to desynching to find it difficult at all.
TOO GOOD!
though, i must say, i FEEL more technical when i'm playing sheik...
but that's probably because i'm too used to desynching to find it difficult at all.
matthewmilad
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2006
- Messages
- 212
IC are definitely the most technical right now, hands down.
Some other noteworthy mentions are:
Olimar (obvious)
Snake (obvious)
Fox (Drillshine Spike, JC Shine, Drillspike to footstool, Shinespike to shinespike, etc)
Falco (Spike to footstool, Chaingrab, Laser timing)
Peach (all kinds of crazy 5#17)
Diddy (some but not all the same stuff as Peach. Also banana placement and punishing after the slips)
Sheik (chain/edge-hog game, forward tilt to up Smash combo)
Sonic (duh)
Lucario (chain grabs, air combo, keeping up with percent/strength)
Squirtle (Shell and air game)
Ganondorf (Thunderstorm, Forward B game)
Dedede (Double Jump D-airs, Back air edge game, Goon Farming when Items are on lol)
Lucas (PK Fire manual B-sticking, Zap Jump, using D-air right)
Marth, Sheik, Fox, Falco, Pikachu, Squirtle, Sonic, Falcon (Sexy pivot games. There's probably some more that have sexy pivot games too)
Lol everyone else = not too technical at all. And even some of these that I listed aren't really THAT technical but oh well lol.
Some other noteworthy mentions are:
Olimar (obvious)
Snake (obvious)
Fox (Drillshine Spike, JC Shine, Drillspike to footstool, Shinespike to shinespike, etc)
Falco (Spike to footstool, Chaingrab, Laser timing)
Peach (all kinds of crazy 5#17)
Diddy (some but not all the same stuff as Peach. Also banana placement and punishing after the slips)
Sheik (chain/edge-hog game, forward tilt to up Smash combo)
Sonic (duh)
Lucario (chain grabs, air combo, keeping up with percent/strength)
Squirtle (Shell and air game)
Ganondorf (Thunderstorm, Forward B game)
Dedede (Double Jump D-airs, Back air edge game, Goon Farming when Items are on lol)
Lucas (PK Fire manual B-sticking, Zap Jump, using D-air right)
Marth, Sheik, Fox, Falco, Pikachu, Squirtle, Sonic, Falcon (Sexy pivot games. There's probably some more that have sexy pivot games too)
Lol everyone else = not too technical at all. And even some of these that I listed aren't really THAT technical but oh well lol.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
ZSS is more technical than most of that list I'd say.
Interesting stuff. However, I seem to notice that most of these picks are based off of a somewhat vague definition of technical. For example, I personally don't find snake that technical at all. Don't get me wrong, I think in order to play him well it takes a massive amount of thinking, planning and correctly selecting from an amazing arsenal as well as a fairly strong close combat game. However whenever I think technical, I think of something more along the lines of melee's fox. Watch silentwolf's showoff video to get an idea of what I mean.
Being technical doesn't mean winning. For all of the posts that argue that a certain character has a steep learning curve or is difficult to be played well I would argue that point is somewhat irrelevant (at least to my understanding of technical). In those cases it seems familiarity and intelligence kick in, not necessarily technical play.
Simply put, when I think of a character being technical, I generally think of consecutive fast inputs, precision and to some extent AT's (the massivie inclusion of techniques under 'ATs' prevents me from acknowledging all AT's as technical). This does not mean that the character is unable to be played without technicality or that if you master the technical aspect you are guaranteed a win. Instead, this leads me to think that a technical character is a character for whom the above deficition is the most applicable or most available.
Now I am in no way the most qualified person to make a judgement on this subject, but bearing all of this in mind Ice climbers seem to be a strong pick with their extremely precisely timed chain grabs. Also, while having no real personal experience with their desync, it would seem to me that simultaneously controlling two separate characters, i.e. dealing with two sets of inputs, would be an extremely difficult technique to consistently pull off considering the speed and timing it would require.
Other than that, I am open to suggestions as to why other characters are more techinical or a better/different defintion of techinical.
Being technical doesn't mean winning. For all of the posts that argue that a certain character has a steep learning curve or is difficult to be played well I would argue that point is somewhat irrelevant (at least to my understanding of technical). In those cases it seems familiarity and intelligence kick in, not necessarily technical play.
Simply put, when I think of a character being technical, I generally think of consecutive fast inputs, precision and to some extent AT's (the massivie inclusion of techniques under 'ATs' prevents me from acknowledging all AT's as technical). This does not mean that the character is unable to be played without technicality or that if you master the technical aspect you are guaranteed a win. Instead, this leads me to think that a technical character is a character for whom the above deficition is the most applicable or most available.
Now I am in no way the most qualified person to make a judgement on this subject, but bearing all of this in mind Ice climbers seem to be a strong pick with their extremely precisely timed chain grabs. Also, while having no real personal experience with their desync, it would seem to me that simultaneously controlling two separate characters, i.e. dealing with two sets of inputs, would be an extremely difficult technique to consistently pull off considering the speed and timing it would require.
Other than that, I am open to suggestions as to why other characters are more techinical or a better/different defintion of techinical.
The Executive
Smash Lord
ICs...the sheer possibilities with the desync (including the ledge floating thing doable off platforms) are terrifying.
Peach is the most technical character by FAR. She's got about 4 seperate movement techniques, including b-sticking turnip movement, glidethrowing and all kind op momentumaltering stuff.
The only thing really technical with other chars is.. the jumpcancelled waveshine thing with fox.
Btw Toon link can have a very technical projectile game. I wonder what B-sticking does to his game.. someone oughtta figure that out XD
The only thing really technical with other chars is.. the jumpcancelled waveshine thing with fox.
Btw Toon link can have a very technical projectile game. I wonder what B-sticking does to his game.. someone oughtta figure that out XD
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
pikachu seems to be one of the more technical characters with his QAC, other than that, ganon has a lot of little tricks like dair autocancelling and wizards foot cancels
Meteor!
Smash Journeyman
ICs by a large margin.
tag yeah
Smash Cadet
I would say Ice Climbers by farrrrrr. Snake is second.
ThreeX
Smash Lord
Yea, i'm gonna have to say that this game isn't technical.
Ch0zen0ne
Smash Lord
How is it possible that no one has mentioned ROB...
-Gyro Trixies
-Gyro Dashing
-Lazer Trixies
-RoboCopter Spiking
-HoverCancelling
-Hovering Attacks
-Hovering Whilst Attacking
-Dair Momentum Trixies...
This isn't even really a contest. Snake can mortarslide.. so can everyone else... IC's can Desync.. big deal? >_>
-Gyro Trixies
-Gyro Dashing
-Lazer Trixies
-RoboCopter Spiking
-HoverCancelling
-Hovering Attacks
-Hovering Whilst Attacking
-Dair Momentum Trixies...
This isn't even really a contest. Snake can mortarslide.. so can everyone else... IC's can Desync.. big deal? >_>
ynomrahnsguht
Smash Apprentice
all i gotta say is quick attack cancel....