Montage's List of Stage Bans!

[Requiem]

Maybe you should play the game when someone camps the wall, catches you with some nonsense into the shine, and he DBs you to 200.



The jab infinite can be stopped as we've tested, so long as it isn't 2v1, or with something behind them. Fox's shine CANNOT.

The reason the ban is in place, is because in melee, you have to SHFFL Dair into DB jc SHHfl, etc. In this game, you hold down and hit b fast.

Lets see if they understand that last thing, since logic seems too inexcistant for them

 

[Parassita]

Wifi tournies are totally in a category of their own. People probably won't be able to set up their own rules in a wifi tourney.

The tournaments that are taken seriously are the one's where money is on the line. These are the types of tournaments which DMBrandon is referring to when he talks about stage bans.

A tournament which is just for fun can set up whatever rules they want. Typically though, for serious tournments, there have always been stages removed simply to keep luck out of the game.

Trust me, you think this whining here is bad, imagine all the kids whining that they lost their 20 bucks because the cars killed them 2 out of their 3 stocks...

Eh, people can host Wi-Fi tournaments and enforce the rules through the thread. We'll probably be seeing those around the Tournament section of Smash Boards following the release on March 9th. 20 bucks? That's not a real gamble, the big money is where the whining really sets off. As I mentioned, Wi-Fi tournaments do equal good practice.

 

[smashbot226]

Wait, Corneria is banned, but Frigate Orpheon isn't?!?

 

[Parassita]

Frigate doesn't have lasers constantly shooting at you while you're attempting to Brawl. Messes up strategy and imbalances the match, making dumb luck a major factor.

 

[smashbot226]

So, wasn't Kraid's World banned?

 

[Parassita]

Sorry, lost me. I can't exactly remember what Kraid's World is... -_-

 

[Requiem]

Sorry, lost me. I can't exactly remember what Kraid's World is... -_-

Its the gay level that gets spinned around constantly by some misformed monster from metroid, if im not mistaken ofcourse

 

[xmenotux]

So given that spamming supposedly decreases the power of an attack according to RyokoYaksa, would that unban Shadow Moses Island?

 

[Parassita]

I thought of that, and then I was all 'No way!'. It seems like the most sensible idea however.

 

[Requiem]

So given that spamming supposedly decreases the power of an attack according to RyokoYaksa, would that unban Shadow Moses Island?

That doesnt mean that the victom doesnt stay locked in the atack :/

 

[zestypizza]

So given that spamming supposedly decreases the power of an attack according to RyokoYaksa, would that unban Shadow Moses Island?

1 damage for 8 minutes is still 999%, with one tilt at 7 minutes and 50 seconds is cheap costing you the game

 

[Parassita]

It's still less effective actually, which means you would be locked a lot longer... Shadow Moses should be kept under ban.

 

[smashbot226]

You know, with the logic we've used right now, shouldn't Mario Circuit be banned?

Stage hazards and walls on the lower lane...

 

[Soma]

So given that spamming supposedly decreases the power of an attack according to RyokoYaksa, would that unban Shadow Moses Island?

The same concept is in Melee, and what happens is the attack drops in power over usages, but there is a limit. Eventually the attack will drop the amount of of percent is deals, but it will stop dropping. So, its not like the attack will drop to dealing 0%...

 

[xmenotux]

That doesnt mean that the victom doesnt stay locked in the atack :/

I'd imagine the fact that the damage becomes less as well as the knockback becomes less, you wouldn't be forced into the wall for too long and it'd make it easier to get out? Anyone wanna try this out? Or has it already?

 

[xmenotux]

The same concept is in Melee, and what happens is the attack drops in power over usages, but there is a limit. Eventually the attack will drop the amount of of percent is deals, but it will stop dropping. So, its not like the attack will drop to dealing 0%...

Oh okay. Nevermind then.

 

[dmbrandon]

Frigate doesn't have lasers constantly shooting at you while you're attempting to Brawl. Messes up strategy and imbalances the match, making dumb luck a major factor.

That is not why cornaria is banned. read the thread and first post, plz.

You know, with the logic we've used right now, shouldn't Mario Circuit be banned?

Stage hazards and walls on the lower lane...

Stage hazards are fine, so long as they don't kill you at LOW percents. There are no walls.

 

[Parassita]

Oh... sorry DM, I was sort of going with what I was thinking at the moment. That would be one of my specific reasons for a ban on Corneia.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

But Corneria's corner (heh) isn't a 90 degree angle, it's more slanted. Is it still impossible to get out of rapid A's and shine infinites?

 

[dmbrandon]

But Corneria's corner (heh) isn't a 90 degree angle, it's more slanted. Is it still impossible to get out of rapid A's and shine infinites?

From what we've seen, so far, yes.

 

[Droly]

Not to flame you but that post has been used twice now, try writing your own post. I already explained my low post count in the post you're quoting.

"The reason my post count is low is because I'm already on various other forums."

Competitive people don't like luck and want to win by skill and thought. This is what you arn't understanding.

 

[eggburt]

imo, the stage bans are fair.
pokemon stadium could be debated endlessly.
i dont think it should be banned. i ahve plenty of reasons for this, but i dont think anyone cares and im not gonna waste 10 mins on a post no one gives a **** about

 

[_Doorman_]

Why are you banning places with rapid A stalling? Why wouldn't we ban places that Fox could waveshine then in SSBM? This list is ****ing bull****.

Fail.


Edit: We should ban any stage with walk off sides too then, because DeDeDe can chaingrab just about anyone into death on those stages. See the ******** logic now?

I like where you were going with this, but you lost me when you insulted the man. Its just his opinion people. And now for my opinion,although as I 've read it will just get ignored because of my post count,but whatever.

I get why people want to ban stages, I really do. You want the tourney scene to be all about skill,I get that. Some levels just give certain players more advantages than others, so they should get the axe. Ok, again, sounds great. For example, New Pork City should be banned because it gives projectile users a clear adavantage. Fine, but that seems a bit unfair that you don't want Link running around pelting you with his bombs and arrows from a distance, yet you have no problem fighting him on a small stage like Yoshi's Island, especially if your using a CQC character like Falco/fox(which takes away one of his key game concepts ;range). it just seems a bit biased, no offense.

My point is, why would it be ok to ban Hyrule?New Pork, where range characters can dominate,yet if I wanted a smaller stage banned because it gavie the Bowser advantage, I'd jsut be talking crazy. I don't know, its like competitive players just don't make sense to me. On one hand, you claim its to help "balance " the game, yet you want to remove balances that are already in place to help some characters.

Please, save the flaming,because it'll just make you look like an a**.

 

[Poel]

I strongly agree with Doorman. I feel like bans are geared toward a certain sort of match.

I don't see how one could create a way to avoid the run and gun terror that was Hyrule, without banning any stage that didn't fit the up close and personal cookie cutter level template.

As for Pokemon Stadium, I feel it is easy enough to avoid the area by the wall, especially when it's a transformation you can be on the look out for. I vote tourney playable on it.

I'd vote for a group of people to begin to construct interesting tourney-friendly created stages. Maybe an officially recognized group could post screenies of legalized stages? Fill in gaps or correct errors for a more diverse set that could allow counter picks for a variety of players and straegies?

 

[_Doorman_]

I strongly agree with Doorman. I feel like bans are geared toward a certain sort of match.

I don't see how one could create a way to avoid the run and gun terror that was Hyrule, without banning any stage that didn't fit the up close and personal cookie cutter level template.

As for Pokemon Stadium, I feel it is easy enough to avoid the area by the wall, especially when it's a transformation you can be on the look out for. I vote tourney playable on it.

I'd vote for a group of people to begin to construct interesting tourney-friendly created stages. Maybe an officially recognized group could post screenies of legalized stages? Fill in gaps or correct errors for a more diverse set that could allow counter picks for a variety of players and straegies?

I gree completely . I fell that for tourneys, a panel could be selected to create a diversity of level, some CQC, some ranged, and a middle ground for those characters who have a little of both.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Not to flame you guys, but this is why people with low post counts get ignored. You don't have enough tournament experience to understand. And I'm much too tired to explain it.

 

[_Doorman_]

Not to flame you guys, but this is why people with low post counts get ignored. You don't have enough tournament experience to understand. And I'm much too tired to explain it.

I hate to flame you guys, but this is why people with high post counts are an annoyance. Your arrogance blinds you.

 

[Elysium]

Post counts don't mean anything, you guys should know that.

 

[_Doorman_]

I agree, I just hope that the create of this thread will take the time to try and see things from my perspective, althought he seems pretty content with his rationalization of why he "knows" these stages should be banned.

 

[Blackshadow]

I get why people want to ban stages, I really do. You want the tourney scene to be all about skill,I get that. Some levels just give certain players more advantages than others, so they should get the axe. Ok, again, sounds great. For example, New Pork City should be banned because it gives projectile users a clear adavantage. Fine, but that seems a bit unfair that you don't want Link running around pelting you with his bombs and arrows from a distance, yet you have no problem fighting him on a small stage like Yoshi's Island, especially if your using a CQC character like Falco/fox(which takes away one of his key game concepts ;range). it just seems a bit biased, no offense.

My point is, why would it be ok to ban Hyrule?New Pork, where range characters can dominate,yet if I wanted a smaller stage banned because it gavie the Bowser advantage, I'd jsut be talking crazy. I don't know, its like competitive players just don't make sense to me. On one hand, you claim its to help "balance " the game, yet you want to remove balances that are already in place to help some characters.

Please, save the flaming,because it'll just make you look like an a**.

Its ridiculously hard to avoid projectiles in small spaces, etc. It greatly limits options, and extends the time limit more than it needs to be. It also is extremely hard to punish without a character with some sort of reflector, such as Pit and the spacies.

Small stages don't limit your options much at all. Can Bowser spam his A moves to greatly limit options for the opposing player? No, he'll get punished. The difference is is that spamming projectiles greatly limits options, gives several characters great advantages should they choose the stages which let you spam effectively and makes the game a complete camp fest. This is why no-one makes these arguments considering small stages.

 

[Ken_Y`]

Stage bans already? tsk tsk tsk

I think we should enjoy the game the first couple months instead of trying to become the best at the competitive scene...

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I hate to flame you guys, but this is why people with high post counts are an annoyance. Your arrogance blinds you.

Truth =/= arrogance

I get why people want to ban stages, I really do. You want the tourney scene to be all about skill,I get that. Some levels just give certain players more advantages than others, so they should get the axe. Ok, again, sounds great. For example, New Pork City should be banned because it gives projectile users a clear adavantage. Fine, but that seems a bit unfair that you don't want Link running around pelting you with his bombs and arrows from a distance, yet you have no problem fighting him on a small stage like Yoshi's Island, especially if your using a CQC character like Falco/fox(which takes away one of his key game concepts ;range). it just seems a bit biased, no offense.

My point is, why would it be ok to ban Hyrule?New Pork, where range characters can dominate,yet if I wanted a smaller stage banned because it gavie the Bowser advantage, I'd jsut be talking crazy. I don't know, its like competitive players just don't make sense to me. On one hand, you claim its to help "balance " the game, yet you want to remove balances that are already in place to help some characters.

This post is wrong in many ways, I can't possibly refute them all right now..

New Pork City should not be banned because it gives projectile users an advantage. It should be banned because of it's size. It is way too easy for a fast or agile character to camp you the entire match. Projectiles have nothing to do with it. If anything, projectiles are more effective up close on a smaller stage.

 

[Sharky]

Correct me of I'm wrong, but couldn't dedede (or other characters that can do it, he's just the first to come to mind) chainthrow people to death in yoshi's island pipes? Just wondering if anyone's confirmed/denied this yet, and if this is enough to warrant a continued ban or not.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

It is possible to DI out of Dedede's chaingrab =]

**** Ikki chaingrabbing Masashi...lol

 

[Sharky]

on that slope though? that could make a difference. =/

 

[ssbm addict 07]

Concerning the Electroplankton stage: Would the tether get back's only get confused on certain area's in the air or did it seem almost random? And did the movement of the leaves at the moment the move was used effect this greatly? As in, could it be purposely done by the opposing party?

Concerning smashville and possibly others: I've seen Pit's up b get back from abnormal distances. I'm guessing its possible to fly under smashville from one edge to the other repetitively. Although not a problem for some that can get to the other edge before pit, or fly around under there with him, could this be a bannable stall if what I'm talking about is possible at all? This is purely conjecture, I obviously don't own the game.

Pokemon stadium 1: Most of the time certain transformations are avoided due to the walls in the first place. However, if a transformation happened while you are off stage you will have to fight to isolate yourself from the walled area. Luck could still have its way with you. I don't think this will happen often enough to promote a ban, but definitely not a neutral this time around. IMO, all permawall stages should be banned. People camping walls could get annoying and promote the once unlikely event of getting pinned against one. Probably promote techniques that would lead into a wall pin, which would lead to its eventual ban anyway.

Stages with walk off sides: camping on the edge in general will be a big deal... easier for people like dk. The dedede chainthrow + possible other chain throws will be too easy to ko with. Possible counter picks? This includes the olimar stage btw.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Well, and here I was thinking I'd have to wait before the fun this topic caused would exist! But it seems Christmas has come early and we'll be debating which stages are banned before the game is even played by the majority of Smash Boards! Hooray!

As for the ban list, I will ignore it until I actually experience these stages first hand, not from word of mouth or a video. About the only stage I ever felt like banning in Melee was Yoshi's Story, if only because MAN did it have a poor layout and bad music.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Well, and here I was thinking I'd have to wait before the fun this topic caused would exist! But it seems Christmas has come early and we'll be debating which stages are banned before the game is even played by the majority of Smash Boards! Hooray!

As for the ban list, I will ignore it until I actually experience these stages first hand, not from word of mouth or a video. About the only stage I ever felt like banning in Melee was Yoshi's Story, if only because MAN did it have a poor layout and bad music.

Yoshi's Story had the most amazing layout of all, possibly the most neutral stage in town. Yoshi's Island, on the other hand, was horrible.

EDIT: Well, it's a great marth stage, but still cool.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Maybe you should play the game when someone camps the wall, catches you with some nonsense into the shine, and he DBs you to 200.



The jab infinite can be stopped as we've tested, so long as it isn't 2v1, or with something behind them. Fox's shine CANNOT.

The reason the ban is in place, is because in melee, you have to SHFFL Dair into DB jc SHHfl, etc. In this game, you hold down and hit b fast.

Or you could just hold down, and press b, x, and r, which was pretty easy imo. Anyway, my point is that you shouldn't let yourself get caught in some nonsens into shine at a wall. Now that Fox doesn't have waveshining, it is much harder to set up for infinite shines.

Also, in most of these stages, there is something interrupting the shining. Onett is an excellent example of this. The cars are on a timer (at least in melee, I expect this will transfer to brawl), that means that 90% of the time, they can only shine you against the wall for a few seconds. There is only one area (the little platform next to the house on the left side) where you aren't interrupted by the cars.

Also, waveshining wasn't the major reason for banning the stage. It was because fox was so overpowered there, with waveshining off the edges (not in brawl) and extremely easy vertical kills (which aren't a big deal anymore due to nerfed uair and usmash).

IMO Onett deserves a second chance.

And so you CAN escape the jab infinites, good find. I suspected as much.

 

[Frogla]

I fail to see the grimer in your sig, so i doubt your credentials.