w.r.t bounce back; My point was that there were any number of possibilities for laundry wasn't seen visiting. One could not assume that the mod was familiar with the golden rule and handling NAR. If it's not mentioned in the rules, there's no reason to assume it. And you shouldn't assume the mod fits into your ideal of perfection. Just the same, I've never heard of passives being roleblocked, but we didn't make the assumption that we couldn't be. I find it odd that the green room peeps felt that it should be obvious to Werekill that Laundry was scum because he wasn't seen visiting. It was certainly very very suspicious, but it wasn't absolutely condemning in my opinion.
w.r.t mass claim; I hate the form the game takes once we get to the night action revelation stage. The psychological factor of the game ceases to exist. It's no longer a detective game, but a puzzle game. I absolutely love puzzle games, I just usually play mafia for the psychological detective factor. For me the most enjoyable mafia game would be purely VTs and goons with maybe a PR on each side. If anything I feel that PRs should be stacked in mafia's favor. That way of going about the game, of course, is a personal preference and it's not always how I felt about the game. I used to be incredibly pro mass claim and always called for mass claims on D1. (Though I guess still that was because I wanted to eliminate the PR factor early on). Furthermore, I do not always go into a game with this expectation and mindset. Kat's Bingo mafia, for example, I expect to be more of a puzzle game than it is a psychological one. I also personally really enjoy making puzzle games. Death Note 2016 (dat queue fusion).
That being said, I do believe that when a game is not specifically designed to be a puzzle game, but a psychological game, that treating it as the former is a bad approach. Especially considering that the mod likely made an effort to conceal the setup and restrict town's ability to outguess. I think fundamental mafia is something that town in general needs to work on. We did this well for the first three days, and I think it would have been cool to complete the game without reverting back to the reliance on mechanical order for the answers. To me this just forestalls the results of the game. In Zombies! it merely caused town to talk in circles for three days and mislynch on one of those days; despite already having the scum pretty much figured out by Day 2. That game could have ended so much sooner without the night action inconsistencies being discussed to oblivion.
Furthermore, a person's voice and paper trail become absolutely worthless once the game becomes about mechanical inconsistencies and modmetaing. Despite Xatres playing incredibly town, he was lynched because he had (or thought he had) the same role name as FML and because of the OPness of both of those roles having the same alignment. There is likely nothing he could have said that would have prevented his lynch because the game was in the "mechanical inconsistency" stage. The same way, there was almost nothing that Ashemu or I could do to prevent being lynched merely because "that role makes no sense" or "that role is sketchy as hell". In other words, because it was a unique role that hasn't been presented before. Our entire play was ignored and we were ridiculed for even bringing it up.
Zenshe: How can you even see us as scum based on our play...
Were: lol "hey guys look my play indicates im not scum" lol
To me, the mass claim wasn't a "we won the million dollars might as well go for 2 million" sort of thing. It was more of a "we won the million dollars. Instead of going for 2 million let's change up our strategy and give half our money away"! We nearly mislynched two days in a row after a three day streak. And if laundry claimed VT, we may have very well lost the game.
w.r.t hydra shenanigans; sorry guys. I really thought I made it clear when I said Ashemu and I were going to hydra replace. I sent in the hydra request a week before my V/LA. I really didn't want to replace out after making such a large investment into the game, and I also didn't want to leave you guys hanging for a week. Next time I guess I'll just replace out or ask town which they prefer out of waiting the V/LA or having a replacement.
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#HBC | Dancer
y u b so insecure. This set up was mad swaggin. Nina's role was awesome. And the poison was legit. I do sympathize with scum's view though. I hate facing a ton of PRs as scum without the advantage of being ahead in information or having the potential to. I also really hate Mail Man/Courier because they are so anti-town. I can understand scum's concern with claiming it. I think one thing that may have brought ultimate balance would have been making the poison undocable instead of ninja. Could even give ninja to the messanger slot as well, though that might put the game in scum's favor (which I personally find to be true balance).
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#HBC | Laundry
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Protean-
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#HBC | Gorf I think you played very very well. Gorf you are one epic busser. I really would have liked to see how your game would have turned out had you not been banned and had you better scum mates that didn't replace out. Out of curiosity, were you online during the scary lynch / frozen wagon attempt? I noticed that just before that went down, you made a post saying that you were here and then you stopped posting until right after Scary was hammered. I'm curious if you were legit lurking during the debacle.
Laundry you played well as well. Your claim was very clever though far-fetched flavorwise. Your Amnesiac claim actually made me more resistant to lynching you because I didn't think that Sword would give scum an Amnesiac safe claim seeing as it would condemn them. If you waited to claim after Werekill and I did, you might have been able to go even further in the game in my opinion. A VT claim could have sent you to endgame.
"I don't like the insistence to **** with players via set-ups and punish massclaims in that matter. That almost always results in MLs and just wastes town's time."
This is silly to the greatest degree. Town shouldn't be punished for playing badly? The mod shouldn't provide safe maneuvers for out guessing attempts? I very much disagree with you on this.
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#HBC | Mac Sorry for wavering on you so much. In the end I guess I fell into the same meta trap as Jerkus. Your apathy was just so out of line with your Zombies! play and in line with your celebrity (?) / Necro play. But all the games I remember with you before Zombies! have been that way so eh. Whenever you said "I understand why you think I'm scummy though", that came off as manipulative/AtE to me. Also I find my endgame AtE brilliant tbqh
. There was no other way for Were and FML to reconsider me. Nothing I could have said otherwise would have convinced them of their fallacy.
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Gheb_01 @
Inglorious ******* *brofists*
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#HBC | FrozeηFlame You kept the game in line and stuck to the fundamentals up until D4. This is the first game I've played with you in a long while. Hopefully next time we can be more ηline. Your asteristic zeal made me raise an eyebrow at points because it's own form of emotional appeal. You played a pretty solid game though. Expressing myself is something I really need to work on. This is consistently a problem. Many times you would quote something of mine and say how weird it was and then proceed to say the same thing in a more articulate manner. Like when you questioned my "Now we have to lynch a PR
" and then proceeded to lynch a PR. A Fro-Zen hydra + avatar consisting of Yoh Asakura with an Afro is so much in order. I do think we complement each other as town when we
are ηline. Such as Soul Calibur Mafia.
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Jerkus The avatar thing real talk. The coy thing was really hard to work with. Circus I feel you used to be way more receptive to other people's opinions and perceptions. Lately it's like you got so tired of all the stupidity in the world and just closed off completely to the idea of other people being right. J always a pleasure.
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Ilovegiraffes Ruy You were mega obvtown to the maximum imo. Ran you were obvtown to me and did very well in explaining yourself when I had doubts. I'm glad you town read me as well. Makes things so much easier. When there aren't any scum in your sight, it's ok to step back and let things play out for a bit. You were getting to ahead of yourself with your FML and Were pushes.
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Ashemu
You are very intelligent. I really hope you play more games around here. I'd like to see how you fair out in the long run.
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FullMetalLynch No worries dude. I'm just glad that you were reexamining things in the end. Even if you would of happened to make the same decision. I feel you made yourself really easy to follow thought wise and weren't scummy at all throughout the game. Please never lynch someone merely because of a funky role. How they claimed it matters I would say. Xatres had like no reason to claim the way he did as scum. And I'm really not
that ******** to make such a claim as scum
.
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#HBC | Nabe
I really loved your play. I've always had problems with your cryptic, card-holding style, but I feel you played it really well here. To me, you made yourself understandable without revealing too much information. Your actions always seem so far-fetched but your explanations for them are genius.
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Lore
Nice game overall man. The main criticism I have is that you should never think in absolutes. Zenshemu or Laundry being scum was not 100%. That line of thought can really mess you up. You were stubborn on the last day, but I don't really blame you at all. I feel that most of the game you were being really open minded and you could tell that you were really thinking things through. Your tracks were supra-par. I really don't have anything negative to say about your play.
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#HBC | Scary as I said you played your wagon very well. You kept making posts the really made me doubt my read on you. Once you improve on faking pushes, you'll be top-notch. You had no reads or scum hunting intent and that's what gave you away. You gotta give the image that you are blood thirsty for finding scum. There was something I never brought up, but I had realized that you kept asking why I did the triple vote thing, but you never asked why Bardull was doing the double vote thing. This to me indicated that you two were scum mates. I was too insecure about the idea to mention it though.
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Rajam I thought you played quite well given the position you were put in :3
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Dooms
always be leavin us hanging
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Xatres I feel you just got too wrapped up in your Jerkus read. I don't blame you too much, but I also think you need to work on reexamining with an open mind. A lot of the scum tells you were using were very null and may actually only ever be applicable to newb scum. I've been where you were though and could see your perspective. But yeah I think you should start working on reexamining by just assuming you are wrong.
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Vult Redux Do you know Ashemu? You know Ashemu don't you.
