Event - Apex 2015 Moneymatches/callouts/trashtalk thread from NY

[Strong Badam]

I lost all my preplanned money matches, but brought a few of them close (Strongbad Wario 1-2 (right?)

It was 2-0 if memory serves, you brought it to last stock on Skyworld but lost the game still.

 

[Metà]

shout-outs to Eli and his crew for not hating me in person like I thought they would, and feared to the point of saying I was going, and using a fake name. I didn't get to meet any of you except Zhime, but from what little I've seen, you guys are awesome.

especially zhime. If you ever need to talk about anything, add me on facebook? i think we have a lot in common, and I've done some thinking, I don't think you should quit the game because Zelda might be changed. although you probably have strong feelings about that

PM is a fun game

 

[Metà]

also I wanna thank Oracle for being a big enough douche to **** talk me in person and make me retire from Melee after 8 years. dead serious. thank you.

you're also an awesome person and I misunderstood you. I hope you can better understand me someday

 

[The_NZA]

you don't know how happy this post makes me. all I've ever strived for in competitive Melee is to do what others haven't. I realized this, after all the games I played, people I educated, and new friends I made from around the world

and I have no idea who the hell you are lmao. when did we play? what day

You ****ing dolt, I was the Ness player laughing about how you were running on nothing but lines of coke and monster energy drinks!!! We played on the last day. You told me about how against Ness, you like side bing into him always, hoping to ither hit him or the pkthunder head, and then jumping and upbing back to recover.

 

[The_NZA]

It was 2-0 if memory serves, you brought it to last stock on Skyworld but lost the game still.

I believe you are right . Close game all the same.

 

[Metà]

You ****ing dolt, I was the Ness player laughing about how you were running on nothing but lines of coke and monster energy drinks!!! We played on the last day. You told me about how against Ness, you like side bing into him always, hoping to ither hit him or the pkthunder head, and then jumping and upbing back to recover.

rofl. sorry, i met way too many people. i remember you, nice meeting you haha

so many feels

I feel so validated

 

[Deleted member]

Also, highlight of the weekend was rocking Umbreon's shiek after he talked all kinds of **** at a Mcdonalds for being the #1 Zelda in melee and the #2 Marth in the world, presently.

Frankly, that wasn't really shit talk, more like my honest views on the game at that point. I also said I was the best melee Zelda and Mewtwo a long long time ago, which is true. I also said I'm the best PM Marth I've seen *so far*, which is also true from my point of view but subject to change at any point. Also my initial point by saying "Ness sucks" was that I expected to have reasonably close to even matches with the Ness players despite having never played against the character before nor having no idea what he can do in PM- which is exactly what happened when I played you, I clearly had no idea how to play the MU and it was still pretty close. I wouldn't say that I got "rocked" nor would I give a whole lot of weight to a single match. Really I wish we had been able to play more. It kinda seems like you're misinterpreting everything intentionally.

 

[The_NZA]

Frankly, that wasn't really shit talk, more like my honest views on the game at that point. I also said I was the best melee Zelda and Mewtwo a long long time ago, which is true. I also said I'm the best PM Marth I've seen *so far*, which is also true from my point of view but subject to change at any point. Also my initial point by saying "Ness sucks" was that I expected to have reasonably close to even matches with the Ness players despite having never played against the character before nor having no idea what he can do in PM- which is exactly what happened when I played you, I clearly had no idea how to play the MU and it was still pretty close. I wouldn't say that I got "rocked" nor would I give a whole lot of weight to a single match. Really I wish we had been able to play more. It kinda seems like you're misinterpreting everything intentionally.

At a McDonalds the day before our match:
NZA (with friends): "Zelda. is bull****, wah wah wah"
From across the Mcdonalds, Umbreon's head pokes up.
Umbreon: "You talking about Zelda? I was the best Zelda in Melee"
NZA: "Who exactly are you? Cosmo?"
Umbreon: "No. I'm Umbreon. I was the best Zelda in Melee"
NZA looks at Umbreon's two friends sitting beside him.
"Dude, all I know about this kid" NZA says pointing at Umbreon "is that he posts a lot of **** on smashboards about how he's the second best Marth to Dr. PP, and I've never seen him compete in a tournament or put up a video ever"
Umbreon: "I am the second best! And I beat M2k in a ditto."
NZA: "then why aren't you competing if you are so good? I mean, you are here at Apex"
Umbreon: "I don't play for money anymore. But If I see you tomorrow, I'll play with you"

That was pretty much as interesting as that interaction got. The next day, I got to see you at night.
You said something that night about how you never played a Ness, which is interesting because you post A LOT of opinions on him here on Smashboards. You picked Sheik which is understood to be somewhere between a 6-4 or 7-3 against Ness. I 2 stocked you in the one or two games we played. IMO thats getting rocked (for someone of "your caliber").

Umbreon *unplugs controller*: "Your character is bad"
NZA: "...I agree. Hey, maybe you should think about not bragging online about being the second best marth in the world if you don't even compete or put up videos. I just think if you don't have very much credibility to sit on with those statements, thenmaking those statements further hurts any credibility you could have."
Umbreon: "nah, if I can't post like that, then there wouldn't be any fun to posting at all"

I tried to be close in my paraphrasing to how that surreal experience went.

 

[BlinkIV]

Every time Umbreon posts..I ask myself why I come on smashboards.

 

[Deleted member]

is that the soap opera version? that's a pretty highly skewed view of our interactions. besides, anyone who actually knows me knows that i would never claim to be the 2nd best at anything, you're either the best or you don't matter.

and yes i still think ness is a bad character, as in not in the top half of the cast relative to the other characters. i think you're a pretty good player that does good player things with ness, as opposed to a player that can really highlight the specific abilities of the character the way zhime or armada or oracle all do with their respective characters. i walked away thinking "that NZA kid is a pretty good player on a subpar character", and not "holy **** that character can do THAT??" and honestly being a "bad" character in a game where the characters are so close in terms of relative goodness isn't particularly damning as it is in say brawl, where you can have a top 10 character that is unplayable.

i know when i'm being outplayed and i can generally tell what i'm losing to when it happens, give or take. i lost to you because you played a good neutral game into a solid punishment game in a MU where my conversion opportunities are limited by my MU experience. i did not lose to you from the fantastic powers of your character, i was doing DJC bair just the same as you 10 years ago. you did earn the win, and i won't take that from you, but you probably could have done that with any of the MUs i'm not familiar with if you were able to play those other characters with equal proficiency because you clearly know how to play the game. it's just not the same as if i had played say armada's pit, where i'm super comfortable against pit and i'd still lose just by being hard outclassed as a player, or when i played against strongbad's ike where i felt about as good as him as a player but had NO idea what to do and just got bodied over and over. it was good fun too.

you can either be salty about it and see me as the bad guy, or you can take it at face value that i'm another player just like you trying to give my honest opinion. if i was really out to beat you and felt like my ego was massively threatened, i would have practiced vs ness non-stop for the last 6 weeks instead of ignoring the character completely.

 

[The_NZA]

is that the soap opera version? that's a pretty highly skewed view of our interactions. besides, anyone who actually knows me knows that i would never claim to be the 2nd best at anything, you're either the best or you don't matter.

and yes i still think ness is a bad character, as in not in the top half of the cast relative to the other characters. i think you're a pretty good player that does good player things with ness, as opposed to a player that can really highlight the specific abilities of the character the way zhime or armada or oracle all do with their respective characters. i walked away thinking "that NZA kid is a pretty good player on a subpar character", and not "holy **** that character can do THAT??" and honestly being a "bad" character in a game where the characters are so close in terms of relative goodness isn't particularly damning as it is in say brawl, where you can have a top 10 character that is unplayable.

i know when i'm being outplayed and i can generally tell what i'm losing to when it happens, give or take. i lost to you because you played a good neutral game into a solid punishment game in a MU where my conversion opportunities are limited by my MU experience. i did not lose to you from the fantastic powers of your character, i was doing DJC bair just the same as you 10 years ago. you did earn the win, and i won't take that from you, but you probably could have done that with any of the MUs i'm not familiar with if you were able to play those other characters with equal proficiency because you clearly know how to play the game. it's just not the same as if i had played say armada's pit, where i'm super comfortable against pit and i'd still lose just by being hard outclassed as a player, or when i played against strongbad's ike where i felt about as good as him as a player but had NO idea what to do and just got bodied over and over. it was good fun too.

you can either be salty about it and see me as the bad guy, or you can take it at face value that i'm another player just like you trying to give my honest opinion. if i was really out to beat you and felt like my ego was massively threatened, i would have practiced vs ness non-stop for the last 6 weeks instead of ignoring the character completely.

I don't think that was very soap operaish of a version and I know people who can corroborate that story. Regardless, I want to make something clear: the above post is the type of posting you do that I LOVE. Why can't you be like THAT all the time? You aren't a villain of the scene, but you do kind of make yourself into one when you claim you are the best at every chance you can.

You are a prominent poster, not a prominent player (I say that because you don't compete or voluntarily put yourself in the process of "stacking up your abilities against the best"). It's a fine thing to be a prominent poster, and I think you do it well in an incredible supportive way. But then, don't bleed into the territory of prominent player by claiming your the best at anything beyond giving advice, coaching, analyzing the game, and giving feedback.

But to once again to counter the "best in the world" claim, both Marth and Shiek have an answer to most characters. I think If I gave the controller to the best Marth player or top 3 shiek players in the world, it doesn't matter who I'm playing as: I should get bodied. Because in a disadvantaged matchup like Ness v. Sheik or Marth, a huge skill discrepency should outweigh a lack of character konwledge. I mean, like you said, I'm not using a magic character that can hoodwink you. Its just Ness, and I didn't even exploit pkfire too much.

As for the matches, I enjoyed them immensely. Like you, I agree that Ness is bottom 5 characters of the game (for the same reasons you feel). I appreciate your praise on my neutral game...I think my punish game is still nerve dependent and I have to fix that. Thanks though for the games and the experience. Once again, I plead that you stop claiming your top 3 Marth/Shiek for your own sake.

 

[Deleted member]

But to once again to counter the "best in the world" claim, both Marth and Shiek have an answer to most characters. I think If I gave the controller to the best Marth player or top 3 shiek players in the world, it doesn't matter who I'm playing as: I should get bodied. Because in a disadvantaged matchup like Ness v. Sheik or Marth, a huge skill discrepency should outweigh a lack of character konwledge. I mean, like you said, I'm not using a magic character that can hoodwink you. Its just Ness, and I didn't even exploit pkfire too much.

Maybe in a more refined or limited game, but not in a game that's fairly new, and one that's so heavily based on match-ups. I think most of the people I've played against would disagree with you, particularly those on older and more familiar characters. Character knowledge means a lot in any smash game, but particularly so in a game where the cast is intentionally balanced.

I give my honest opinions all the time. If you like some of them and not others, I'm not really sure what to tell you.

edit: sheik is a lot about cheating her mediocre neutral game, defending for conversions, and trapping opponents into edge-guard set-ups. all of that stuff is pretty character specific. i make jokes a lot that "i sheik'd at them" but her character requires a lot of specific knowledge on how to deal with the opponent to leverage an advantage when you have to play real opponents. i'm learning the game just like everyone else is.

 

[NJzFinest]

ESAM is amazing with Samus and I wasn't really prepared for it. Also DK can't combo Samus, like not even like other floaties, it's harder than comboing Luigi or Zelda or Ivysaur..

Yeah.. this is one of the things I can't get used to with PM DK. In Melee you can cargo up throw to Uair Samus at killing %s. This matchup is awful for Samus in Melee, is PM Samus super buffed?

 

[Metà]

Umbreon, I saw your username in this thread. After that, I stopped reading.

I went to Apex 2014. I put everything I loved on the line, because I sincerely love honest intellectual stimulation. I'm also incredibly emotional, but I just learned to conquer my fears, and I faced every single one of them. I couldn't find you at Apex. Where were you?

I wanted to apologize.

 

[Metà]

You're clinging to the past just like I have with Nintendo since I was 4.

stop talking

 

[Metà]

$1000 money match

Fox only, final destination, no items.

Apex 2015

 

[Metà]

u scurred?

 

[ELI-mination]

No P:M Samus is not super buffed. But had a lot of trouble following up anything from a grab. It was hard to land grabs and get around all the projectiles. Also DK's recovery is pretty easy to edge guard. She can crawl around in morph ball to avoid grabs. Her tether recovery is really good and difficult to intercept as with all tether recoveries in p:m, but she reaches the ledge from really far and can throw out a missile while recovering.
All in all it's a difficult matchup for DK but I would have still been able to handle it if Esam wasn't that great. Unfortunately for me, he was really good and I wasn't ready for it.
Although I probably still wouldn't go DK in that matchup anymore.

 

[The_NZA]

No P:M Samus is not super buffed. But had a lot of trouble following up anything from a grab. It was hard to land grabs and get around all the projectiles. Also DK's recovery is pretty easy to edge guard. She can crawl around in morph ball to avoid grabs. Her tether recovery is really good and difficult to intercept as with all tether recoveries in p:m, but she reaches the ledge from really far and can throw out a missile while recovering.
All in all it's a difficult matchup for DK but I would have still been able to handle it if Esam wasn't that great. Unfortunately for me, he was really good and I wasn't ready for it.
Although I probably still wouldn't go DK in that matchup anymore.

Eli...being helpful...on the internet?

Go **** talk somewhere bro, this is REALLY weirding me out.

 

[Deleted member]

I went to Apex 2014. I put everything I loved on the line, because I sincerely love honest intellectual stimulation. I'm also incredibly emotional, but I just learned to conquer my fears, and I faced every single one of them. I couldn't find you at Apex. Where were you?

you weren't looking very hard. i was standing right next to you @ the PMBR meetup on saturday at like 5 pm

 

[Metà]

^ and you weren't looking very hard for me.

checkmate

 

[Deleted member]

after your stupid **** on the forums i didn't particularly want to meet you. at least i'm consistent.

 

[Metà]

lmao

ok

you can have your assumptions

i guess words hurt you more in person, huh? too scared to try to find me and give me out those "**** pamphlets"?

you're bad at smash GET OVER IT




WHEN WERE YOU THE BEST NESS? TELL ME? WAS IT ANY TIME IN THE LAST 6 YEARS?

how many tournaments did you win? would you be confident enough to money match me in melee ness dittos for $100?

any less and you're a fraud



do it. stop talking.

 

[The_NZA]

lmao

ok

you can have your assumptions

i guess words hurt you more in person, huh? too scared to try to find me and give me out those "**** pamphlets"?

you're bad at smash GET OVER IT




WHEN WERE YOU THE BEST NESS? TELL ME? WAS IT ANY TIME IN THE LAST 6 YEARS?

how many tournaments did you win? would you be confident enough to money match me in melee ness dittos for $100?

any less and you're a fraud



do it. stop talking.

Meta, go to sleep. You're posting high again.

 

[Metà]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYa5aQb3YGE

 

[Deleted member]

yeah that didn't make you look like any less of a idiot.

 

[Metà]

i accept my own stupidity and embrace it

just like you need to embrace your swollen ego
and take the air out of it so we can see your face

this is now a poem.

~Metà

 

[Metà]

and now i introduce, the ad hominem:




































you're a virgin

 

[The_NZA]

Meta, go to sleep. You're posting high again.

 

[Apollo Ali]

I second shout outs to Eli and crew for being hospitable and giving NZA and I a place to stay. I also second Meta being hilarious as ****. Side-B to cancel Ness's recovery? BRILLIANT.

 

[Paradoxium]

Reading all 10 pages of this thread was very entertaining, this community is too awesome, smash bros just can't be beat

 

[T-Murder]

The Midwest will body New York. Prepare to lose

 

[2Fox]

Wanted to delete this. Can't find delete buttons sorry.

 

[JbrockPony]

anyone wanna MM my scrubby sonic in PM?

$5 bo3

 

[infomon]

Threadsurrected!!

Calling this out:

$1000 money match

Fox only, final destination, no items.

Apex 2015

2015 hype