Omfg the wall.
Bolded: This bothered me quite a lot. He said convince us that you are town. Not show that you are town CONVINCE us. Why do you need to convince us?
As I stated before, I don't think the Mafia are the only team that wants to convince the town that they are town. If you are considered possible mafia, people are less inclined to follow you, or even listen to you. Every game I've seen where the town caught scum quickly, was because a player had a provable power role that confirmed him as town, which allows the town to know they have someone they can trust.
Since making an unnecessary early claim would be foolish, I am inclined to let the town know that I am on their side by making my presence known, and valuable.
I wasn't jumping like a frog due to nerves, I was making an RVS vote. Even if I was, that is not telling of alignment. I'm a new player, and it wouldn't be out of the question to think I was nervous about my first game. Whether I am town or mafia isn't relevant to that idea.
This, however, wasn't the case for me. There's actually a completely different reason I made this jump on you.
I decided that making a completely random vote, and telling everyone "Hey, this is a completely random vote" would not make anyone feel the need to respond. So I made you believe I was serious about it, since you were the first person to post something I could jump on. I'd say it was a success, since everyone did, in fact, believe me.
Bold: RVS gets people talking that’s the point of it.
Which is what I did. Your pointless RVS vote, which Vinyl never felt a need to respond to, didn't do anything.
Underlined: What reasons had I given as of that point?
None really. I read your post, and that thought popped into my head. "Hey, if he says Vinyl makes scum lose, then why would he wanna vote to lynch him?" I thought it was funny, and that it would help me figure out how defensive you get over absolutely nothing. (as it turns out, you choked)
I know, right? I should be the
mare of
punyville
Considering that you gave a reason for your first vote, why are you questioning my motives anyway?
Because it pressured you into saying something inconsistent IMMEDIATELY. Vinyl asked you if you were serious or joking, and you said both. When I pressed you about it, you said it was all a joke.
Bolded: Voting to lynch is dangerous in early game. It allows the scum to swoop in and quicklynch.
Underlined: We’re not discouraging early game voting we are discouraging early game lynches.
I know how mafia works, sir.
I really don’t think you get the point of RVS that well. The entire thing is to get people talking. By taking the votes off the people it doesn’t allow for conversations on that vote.
And yet, here we are talking about it.
Again, a vote still has weight behind it whether or not it is a RVS vote.
We just disagree on this point. I'm not of the opinion that people will respond to an accusation when they know everybody else knows it has no merit.
Vinyl is an experienced player, he has played this for a while now and I know that he’s good. I want to be able to get better reads on him.
That's fair. So why'd you remove your vote?
You seem really interested with lurking. Is lurking a serious tell to you or are you just grasping at anything that looks scummy?
I don't think lurking is scummy all by itself, no. But when someone is lurking a lot, that means they are reading the thread. If they are reading the thread, then post something that indicates that they haven't been paying attention, I have to question whether they are omitting facts on purpose.
So lurking is scummy but posting fluff isn’t? Color me confused.
I was under the impression that this was a game. I was poking fun at him. Sue me.
Was it a good or bad way? You’ve never really stated what reads you have on me. Are you angry about the fact that I’m going after you? Do you have a scum read on me because of this?
I think you're just really misguided. If you were paying attention, you'd realize that I pursued you (in RVS) waaaaaaay before you started hardcore tunneling me. I'm inclined to believe that you felt pressure from me early on, so you started watching me. When you started watching me, you started spotting things you thought might be scummy. If you continue tunneling me, it might make me question your motives more. I feel I've done a satisfactory job of proving my innocence so far.
Why are you asking him about the exchange? Would you have gotten reads off of it?
Yea, I would have gotten
his read on
you
You said that you were going to vote BSP, but I was wondering. Did Soup’s first vote have any sway on how you were going to pursue him?
Yea, I wasn't originally gonna vote him, just question him. When Soup voted him, I decided that 2 votes were better than 1, since 1 vote is very nonthreatening, but more than 1 vote starts to feel like a wagon forming. I honestly didn't believe an
actual wagon was gonna form around this.
Are you counting on other people at all? Would you lean more on a read if an IC had it or another more experienced player?
I pay attention to others, certainly. Their IC status is irrelevant though. I would rather look at a person's reasoning, and decide for myself whether they are onto something legitimate or not. This applies to everyone equally.
Did you know that he was at L-2 when the last guy had voted him? Would you have moved your vote if not for Soup or I’s comments?
I honestly didn't know what L-2 was until Soup said something. When it became clear that if we were to assume that everyone on the wagon was innocent, all it would take to lynch BSP was for the mafia to jump on it, so I jumped off.
When you thought you knew what he was doing, does it do anything to your reads on him that you had over thought his plan?
Yes. I think it's entirely possible that he was going after an easy target, hoping that the room full of noobs would think it was totally a legit reason to lynch and follow him. When people started doing exactly that, Soup even commented on how easy this game was going to be.
Do you think he was outright sheeping? Or was he being a newb?
I think he was just being a noob. He's clearly not stupid enough to think he can get away with something that obvious. At the exact moment I was voting for him though? I had no idea if he was stupid or not. That's why I wanted to hear his explanation.
How’s your read on him now?
I'm kinda Null on him. I want to say he's town, but every time someone gives reasoning for their actions, he questions it with WIFOM logic. The fact that he thinks that way makes me think anything he says might just be misdirection. Gun to my head? I guess I'd call him town.
Would you consider lynching someone else right now? Is Toaster on your list? Any other scum reads?
Lynching BSP wouldn't be worthwhile unless he flipped scum. I don't think we'd learn anything from it if he flipped town, and since I don't really think he's scum, I don't want to lynch him.
1. Dumb/scum is not a backhanded comment.
2. Why so quick with the jumping off the wagon? You were the second person on it why were you the first one off?
You actually called me "dumb town". Since I already know I'm town, I pretty much just read this as you calling me "dumb", since you also acknowledged that I was town at the time. That's kinda like you complementing me and insulting me at the same time, which is backhanded. I shouldn't have taken it so personally though.
Bolded: So you’re expecting people to crumble under pressure? WHy can’t they slip without pressure on them? How do you get your reads off of someone now?
Underlined: Will the NK toNight give you any info? If so explain why.
Somebody could easily slip up on their own, but I can't make them do that. The only thing I can actively do, is pressure them.
I have no idea if the NK will tell me anything until it happens.
Is NK patterns the only way you get reads? Or do you believe that it’s your best read method?
Obviously not. I was talking to BSP. He said he was a more "concrete data" type of person, so I told him what things are considered to be concrete data in mafia. I was trying to let him know that if he was convinced he couldn't catch scum without hard facts, that there was a way for him to do that.
Bolded: If you jumped the wagon before him does that give any suspicion to you? Did you think that voting for BSP made it a possible wagon?
It could definitely make me look suspicious, but I feel I've given adequate explanation for my actions, and the thought process behind them. Toaster has not.
Underlined: How would drawing attention to yourself be scummy?
That was me quoting what Toaster said, so you should direct that question to him. I'm as confused about the reasoning as you are.
2nd Bolded: You keep going after the lurkers. Would you be willing to lynch one if we were reaching deadline?
No, because I think there is better info to go on than lurking. Lurking is not something worth lynching someone for, but it is something that can give you a reason to keep a closer eye on someone.
Bolded: If a lynch flips town would you look into the person who had pushed them the hardest? Why? Not all fights are TvS (town vs. scum).
I think looking at the person pushing the lynch is the first place to start. Looking at a person does not mean "Lynch them cuz they lynched town, lol!" It means analyzing their case, and finding intent behind it. Were they really convinced that the target was scum, or did they just do a good job of convincing everyone else that they were?
Again you are really interested in lurkers.
Not really, I'd just prefer it if people stopped lurking ,and started posting. We can't get reads on people who don't post.
Bolded: Are you keeping your reads closed?
What do you mean by this?
So you don’t like lurking but this doesn’t have any tell to you?
It's not a tell, no. But again, if they don't start posting, how can we read them? I'm trying to discourage lurking, certainly. I do not want to lynch people for it.
Bolded: Do you feel the need to prove to us that you’re a towny?
Underlined: So why haven’t you voted him yet?
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. If people don't trust me, why would they listen to me when I give reads? Of course I want people to believe that I am town.
I haven't voted for him, because I'm not convinced it would do anything. He's told us everything we could possibly learn from pressuring him, since he's probably the person who has come under the most fire so far in this game. I can't lynch him by myself, so the fact that people are disinclined to vote for him due to him maybe just being reeeeeally noobie, makes me voting for him kinda pointless.
You keep saying that you have suspicions but you never vote or act on them, why not?
I don't think soup is dumb enough to crack under the pressure of votes. Vinyl and I have stated our opinions on soup, and people are now looking at him a bit more closely. We still have a couple days to get something more actionable out of him.
I agree with this, but I don’t think that we need to look at them closer than the others. We are all very capable of being scum.
I agree.
You really need to get a vote out. I won’t accuse you of sheeping if you have reasons of your own. Post a case when you vote.
As a townie, my vote is my only weapon. I can't read people's facial cues or their body language, and I don't have a magic lasso to make them tell me stuff. My vote is all I have. So far, I have tried to use my vote with purpose, but if I throw it around all willy nilly every day, people will stop paying attention to it. I'll vote when I'm ready to, not because you say I have to.
Whew. I hate doing long *** "quote by quote" responses like that.
In any case I don't think you should want EVERYONE to believe you're town. I think that if everyone believes you to be town then the mafia would just kill you at night seeing as how they wouldn't be able to convince people of you being not town. Does that make sense? It made sense in my head not sure if it does in this. 
