Mission Complete!- Fox Discussion Thread

[Dark Dire Wolf]

I keep hearing Fox has a lot of combo potential, so I'm doing something very wrong. What combos should I look for to rack up damage? Are we talking true combos or DI/read dependent strings?

 

[Foster J.]

I keep hearing Fox has a lot of combo potential, so I'm doing something very wrong. What combos should I look for to rack up damage? Are we talking true combos or DI/read dependent strings?

Well if you watched Larry Lurr's games at Paragon you can see how Uair combo's into itself.
There's some fox guides out there showcasing a few, if you check the front page of the replay thread I've linked 2 videos showing some true combos Fox can do, and the 2 video guides by ZeRo and Nakat.

In general Fox is about following up and converting. Like weak Dash attack to Uair or Utilt to Uair depending on how you hit Utilt.
It's stuff to practice, but at this point it's essential to learn to Short hop your Uair's so they auto cancels, and you have to make a decision.

Do you play with C on tilt or smash.

Cause if you play with C on tilt you can double stick SH AC Uair's like it's candy, but getting running Usmashes might derp slightly.

I mean in general, all I can say is, play fast and learn to buffer as much you can. That 10 frame buffering window is Fox's best friend

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Well if you watched Larry Lurr's games at Paragon you can see how Uair combo's into itself.
There's some fox guides out there showcasing a few, if you check the front page of the replay thread I've linked 2 videos showing some true combos Fox can do, and the 2 video guides by ZeRo and Nakat.

In general Fox is about following up and converting. Like weak Dash attack to Uair or Utilt to Uair depending on how you hit Utilt.
It's stuff to practice, but at this point it's essential to learn to Short hop your Uair's so they auto cancels, and you have to make a decision.

Do you play with C on tilt or smash.

Cause if you play with C on tilt you can double stick SH AC Uair's like it's candy, but getting running Usmashes might derp slightly.

I mean in general, all I can say is, play fast and learn to buffer as much you can. That 10 frame buffering window is Fox's best friend

What does double stick and AC mean? I guess I'll try tilt-stick again.

 

[Foster J.]

What does double stick and AC mean? I guess I'll try tilt-stick again.

Double Sticking is a method of using aerials and AC means auto cancelled, basically landing without landing lag.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Double Sticking is a method of using aerials and AC means auto cancelled, basically landing without landing lag.

Thanks! Although, when double sticking, how would I input a horizontal direction as well as I have hit straight up first on the analog stick?

 

[Foster J.]

Thanks! Although, when double sticking, how would I input a horizontal direction as well as I have hit straight up first on the analog stick?

You don't HAVE to hit straight up, you can just do the jump with the control pad and then just hit the C Stick for the aerial?
Play around with it now, don't ask for every little detail.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

I found something kind of interesting with Fox, don't know if this has really been stated yet:
But on opponents with relatively low % (weight/fallspeed dependent also), If you full hop and use Dair near the peak of your jump (where you would land with no landing lag) and hit a grounded opponent with the last hit of Dair (3%), you could follow up with Fox's short hop Fair and Fastfall spike them into the ground, setting up a jab lock scenario.

Anyone ever play around with this yet? Doesn't seem that risky on shield and I got like a 50%+ combo off of this.

 

[Turrin]

Here's a question from a FG scrub to all you ace pilots: Air dodge punishes? Seems like I can do exceptionally well against anybody until they airdodge my upairs. In most cases, I know exactly when they're going to airdodge, but baiting it is difficult because Fox's fall speed is too fast. Is there another way to easily nail airdodge reads? Double jump just as they airdodge? Stick to the ground and hop into them when they airdodge?
pls halp.

 

[Pudgetalks]

Here's a question from a FG scrub to all you ace pilots: Air dodge punishes? Seems like I can do exceptionally well against anybody until they airdodge my upairs. In most cases, I know exactly when they're going to airdodge, but baiting it is difficult because Fox's fall speed is too fast. Is there another way to easily nail airdodge reads? Double jump just as they airdodge? Stick to the ground and hop into them when they airdodge?
pls halp.

What I like to do is scare them to jump by jumping at them, when they have lost their jump, jump up over them, then come down fast falling your up air.
It's a ***** cos you fall so fast but I found this the best way to do it.

 

[Top Boss]

I found something kind of interesting with Fox, don't know if this has really been stated yet:
But on opponents with relatively low % (weight/fallspeed dependent also), If you full hop and use Dair near the peak of your jump (where you would land with no landing lag) and hit a grounded opponent with the last hit of Dair (3%), you could follow up with Fox's short hop Fair and Fastfall spike them into the ground, setting up a jab lock scenario.

Anyone ever play around with this yet? Doesn't seem that risky on shield and I got like a 50%+ combo off of this.

yeah i knew about that for quite a while lol. itll tue combo into up air, bair, and wolf flash at kill percent as well

 

[Foster J.]

The DK MU is just.... insanely bad now

 

[Tenretsujin10]

The DK MU is just.... insanely bad now

Disagree. That Fox just played poorly, I mean he made really weird decisions that got him killed/took unnecessary damage. I mean, when he got Ding-Donged 2nd game both stock there wasn't anything he could do there, but still.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

The DK matchup isn't bad, the M2K matchup is bad.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Am I supposed to fast fall the dair > usmash combo? Also, I noticed that sometimes after a dair the opponent goes behind me, and sometimes in front of me. Normally they go behind me if I'm right above or beyond the opponent, and if I keep them at the edge of the dair, the go in front. Is this observation correct or am I missing something to help me predict the direction of the opponent after a dair (to follow up with usmash).

 

[EndlessRain]

It doesn't matter how you do it, as long as you land before the last hit. This happens whether or not you fastfall a SH dair, so it doesn't really matter. If you do it out of a fulljump, you'll have to start the dair later and/or fastfall, depends on the height you start it at. But fulljump dair is bad anyway.

And yes, you have the direction thing right, it depends on which side of them you land.

 

[Umby]

I don't know what people generally refer to it as, but how do you all feel about Extended Dash Dancing / Dash Dance Pivot / Whatever-you-prefer-to-call-it? I've gotten used to it as Marth, since Brawl, but I can't see the payout on Fox. With the timing required, it feels like I can move back and forth just as quickly with a regular foxtrot, but I'm messing around with my movement options, so I wanted to be well informed.

 

[Foster J.]

I guess BloodCross was on to something when he was tweeting about Dair a couple of days back

 

[Tenretsujin10]

I guess BloodCross was on to something when he was tweeting about Dair a couple of days back

Dair's autocancel is pretty busted lol.

 

[KnuckaSammich]

Hey so I was wondering about the viability of FF Uair into a grounded opponent as a combo starter/approach tool. Is it something that should even be considered? How does it compare to a landing nair or dair?

 

[Tenretsujin10]

Hey so I was wondering about the viability of FF Uair into a grounded opponent as a combo starter/approach tool. Is it something that should even be considered? How does it compare to a landing nair or dair?

If the opponent does not shield it or move away sure. but if they do, be prepared to eat a punish ~ Up-air has 22 frames of ending lag to it.
You can combo up-airs into itself around low-mid percentages so there's a plus.

 

[luke_atyeo]

just coming back after a while away from the game and I'm not sure what to do with the new post patch jab.
I heard that jab jab into running usmash is now a true combo on all characters, but I cant seem to make it work, also apparently you can still jab to grab but that doesnt seem to work for me either (at least not the way it used to).
What new tools did we gain apart from actually being able to jab 3 now?
Also, if I begin to jab on their shield, is there anyway at all I can pull out and be safe (stop at jab 1 or jab 2 or something) or am I just doomed to being punished?

 

[Tenretsujin10]

just coming back after a while away from the game and I'm not sure what to do with the new post patch jab.
I heard that jab jab into running usmash is now a true combo on all characters, but I cant seem to make it work, also apparently you can still jab to grab but that doesnt seem to work for me either (at least not the way it used to).
What new tools did we gain apart from actually being able to jab 3 now?
Also, if I begin to jab on their shield, is there anyway at all I can pull out and be safe (stop at jab 1 or jab 2 or something) or am I just doomed to being punished?

- You need to hit the tip of Jab-Jab's hitboxes (When his fists fully extend) to get the running Up-Smash.

Fox's jab 1-2's have different hitbox properties.
- The tippered jabs pop them up and away, at like a 45 degree angle. This is the one that sets up for up-smash.
- Nontippered jabs sends them straight and away, this will not lead to the upsmash if they shield in time.​

- The inescapable rapid jab is pretty much the biggest benefit. Jab 1-2 tippered also gives you enough space from characters that can combo break so you can hit them without much worry. Tippered Jab 1-2 into running up-smash trades with Luigi's nair compared to prepatch.
- If you're jabbing on shield, make sure it's spaced well to avoid being punished. You can just back off after the first two if you don't want to commit to something.

 

[Top Boss]

I guess BloodCross was on to something when he was tweeting about Dair a couple of days back

lol i remeber finding this before. i posted a thread on it a while back. it leads into footstools at lower percent too. and at ko percent it leads into RAR bair and up air(bad DI) as well as wolf flash lol. its a really cool application.

Hey so I was wondering about the viability of FF Uair into a grounded opponent as a combo starter/approach tool. Is it something that should even be considered? How does it compare to a landing nair or dair?

yes, it's a really cool combo tool. don't approach with it tho lol, since it's pretty laggy if you miss. i use it for tech chase situations and for other random reads since people probably wont expect the move. but a 16% combo starter is definitely useful lol. Just don't throw it out.

 

[V1STA]

https://twitter.com/mahoro324/status/646041873342050304

Some really good perfect pivot application! The up b into pp looks especially cool

 

[ZeroJanitor]

On a 3DS even.

 

[Top Boss]

how did they do that with fire fox?

 

[luke_atyeo]

- You need to hit the tip of Jab-Jab's hitboxes (When his fists fully extend) to get the running Up-Smash.

Fox's jab 1-2's have different hitbox properties.
- The tippered jabs pop them up and away, at like a 45 degree angle. This is the one that sets up for up-smash.
- Nontippered jabs sends them straight and away, this will not lead to the upsmash if they shield in time.​

- The inescapable rapid jab is pretty much the biggest benefit. Jab 1-2 tippered also gives you enough space from characters that can combo break so you can hit them without much worry. Tippered Jab 1-2 into running up-smash trades with Luigi's nair compared to prepatch.
- If you're jabbing on shield, make sure it's spaced well to avoid being punished. You can just back off after the first two if you don't want to commit to something.

cool, thanks for the good response man.



I have another question for peeps, ZeRo mentioned on his new fox video that fox can shine spike luigi really really easily, does anyone have any video footage of that being done?

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Patch 1.1.1 is out. Anybody notice any Fox changes? I haven't noticed any differences so far.

 

[Foster J.]

I know he's doing these against D3 but I never knew Dair would actually true combo into stuff....

 

[Top Boss]

I know he's doing these against D3 but I never knew Dair would actually true combo into stuff....

you never knew about it?

 

[Skarfelt]

I didn't realise sweetspot Nair went into pivot ftilt. That's really good for KO'ing. Does it work against proper DI?

 

[Top Boss]

I didn't realise sweetspot Nair went into pivot ftilt. That's really good for KO'ing. Does it work against proper DI?

DI up may get the opponent out of reach, depending on %. and i guess fast fallers could DI towards the ground at tech at somewhat low percents as well.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I know he's doing these against D3 but I never knew Dair would actually true combo into stuff....

yeah dair true combos into a lot of things at a lot of different percentages, its a very very good move. There was a fox on here that worked dair into their game months ago and put a lot of this stuff out there for others to see, but I cant remember for the life of me who it was.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Any tips against Ryu? I used find him okay to deal with but recently it's difficult. I get combo'd and beaten to the punch every time.

 

[Top Boss]

Any tips against Ryu? I used find him okay to deal with but recently it's difficult. I get combo'd and beaten to the punch every time.

get him above you

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

get him above you

So utilt will be a major player here? Does his nair not hit below, I can't remember?

 

[luke_atyeo]

utilt, but also short hop auto cancel uair, usmash works well as an antiair too, as does shield grabbing his aerial

 

[Top Boss]

up throw is good in this matchup. up air negates focus attack mixups. dash attack>up air is guaranteed. etc

 

[luke_atyeo]

^ to further follow that chain of logic, ryu has very poor mobility which is what you want to take advantage of. I dunno how good his horizontal air speed is but it should be slow enough that you can always shadow him when he's above you. Laser camping probably works well too.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Another question, should I challenge Jigglypuff in the air or shield and punish? I think I'm getting WiFi'd on the latter option as Jigglypuff always gets out of the way after a shield an aerial.