Mission Complete!- Fox Discussion Thread

[gridatttack]

So. I decided today to pick up fox. Because as a Shulk main, I have a hard time against fast and projectile characters, and Fox being fast with the reflector & laser would perhaps makes me fare better. As well as Wolf was my secondary main in brawl, and fox is the closest thing I have in this game.

What are some generally things to know about fox playstyle in this game?

I have seen some stuff online like use Up tilt to rack damage early in the stock, aswell as the down throw to foward air.

 

[Rhus]

@ gridatttack

Good to see you'll be reporting in!

Fox plays an in-out game better than pretty much the rest of the cast. His insane movement (dash speed, jumping speed, (fast) fall speed etc.) allows him to bait attacks, engage and disengage fights easily, while also being hard to camp due to his reflector and blaster.

My general tip for an aspiring Fox is to spend some time learning his movement and what can be done with it. Get accustomed to his physics and his short, small hitboxes on his attacks. Start using empty hops to bait attacks, using your initial dash (because he has potentially the best in the game) to scare them and/or cause a reaction and play off of that, and other movement options like pivot Ftilts and on stage illusions.

I know the tips are a little vague but if you are new to Fox I recommend spending some time on it because he definitely has one of the higher skill ceilings in Sm4sh (like your main, Shulk).

 

[roymustang1990-]

I don't know the data or anything but I totally agree with your sentiment on its use.
I've started implementing both of them and have gotten pretty good results.
The Pivot grab's really good for when you're certain they're gonna roll back.

Yeah,it's awesome!

I also think fox's pivot f tilt/grab is his safest approach which makes me wonder why we don't see enough of it's use in offline play by the top foxes. :/

 

[VenommousPig]

Hey fox boards, been a minute since I asked you guys any questions but can somebody tell me why MegaFox dosnt attend any major events? Iv studied all of larrys matches and Megafoxs aswell and he just seems always on point. Spaces like no other he's a straight Nair God with fox. This isn't to fan boy but rather see if anybody agrees if anybody is gonna win a international event with fox it's probably him but well never know .

 

[roymustang1990-]

Question. Is there solid confirmation that falcon can jab his way out of fox's double jab string?

 

[Skarfelt]

Been testing setups with the new jab. I'll update my findings here. Can't record either - would really appreciate if someone can double check to make sure these work. I'm 99% sure this is all correct, anyway. Bear in mind these do not work against EVERYONE - you will have to adapt to each scenario based on character, percentage and jab hitbox.

Main thing to note is jab has three main results now. If you're far away, they'll be knocked up a bit - I'll refer this to spaced jab. If you're closer, they'll get knocked further away - I'll refer to this as standard jab. If you're even closer, they get knocked behind you. This jab is totally useless so I'll never use it for comboing.

(NEW) STANDARD COMBOS
Most old combos still work at low % - jab reverse utilt, grab etc. are all generally fine still.

• Spaced jab can go into footstool, nair reset then Up Smash against most of the cast. It doesn't seem to work against fast fallers. Against some characters like Luigi, you're better off doing a Dair after the footstool rather than a Nair. Dair still goes into Up Smash.
• Spaced jab into Fair fast fall works, forcing a tech they probably won't react to.You can even rejab to force an "infinite" but they will eventually tech most likely. The rejab is extremely hard though as you have to land far enough way to then do a spaced jab. This generally works better at higher %. I wanna say it would catch airdodges but idk.
• After footstool shenanigans stop working from spaced jab (so around 100% on Rosa, for example), you can do RAR SH Bair instead. 20% later, you can do Uair. If they airdodge, you have no landing lag on either move so it should be fine
• Near the ledge, standard jab into footstool seems to work against a lot of characters but they can airdodge too. If they airdodge, land and try to Fair gimp them. If they don't, you can shine to stage spike them.
• Standard jab into (dash) grab is still true against most of the cast but some of them can spot dodge at different percentages. Mixup your grabs with SH Dairs to catch spotdodges and also try boost pivot grabs to make your grabs unpunishable.

I'm gonna check more character specific stuff later as I have people coming over but it's fairly promising for now. Spaced jab is generally fantastic but you have to read options very well. Standard jab is quite poor and tricky to follow up on for sure.

 

[VenommousPig]

Been testing setups with the new jab. I'll update my findings here. Can't record either - would really appreciate if someone can double check to make sure these work. I'm 99% sure this is all correct, anyway. Bear in mind these do not work against EVERYONE - you will have to adapt to each scenario based on character, percentage and jab hitbox.

Main thing to note is jab has three main results now. If you're far away, they'll be knocked up a bit - I'll refer this to spaced jab. If you're closer, they'll get knocked further away - I'll refer to this as standard jab. If you're even closer, they get knocked behind you. This jab is totally useless so I'll never use it for comboing.

(NEW) STANDARD COMBOS
Most old combos still work at low % - jab reverse utilt, grab etc. are all generally fine still.

• Spaced jab can go into footstool, nair reset then Up Smash against most of the cast. It doesn't seem to work against fast fallers. Against some characters like Luigi, you're better off doing a Dair after the footstool rather than a Nair. Dair still goes into Up Smash.
• Spaced jab into Fair fast fall works, forcing a tech they probably won't react to.You can even rejab to force an "infinite" but they will eventually tech most likely. The rejab is extremely hard though as you have to land far enough way to then do a spaced jab. This generally works better at higher %. I wanna say it would catch airdodges but idk.
• After footstool shenanigans stop working from spaced jab (so around 100% on Rosa, for example), you can do RAR SH Bair instead. 20% later, you can do Uair. If they airdodge, you have no landing lag on either move so it should be fine
• Near the ledge, standard jab into footstool seems to work against a lot of characters but they can airdodge too. If they airdodge, land and try to Fair gimp them. If they don't, you can shine to stage spike them.
• Standard jab into (dash) grab is still true against most of the cast but some of them can spot dodge at different percentages. Mixup your grabs with SH Dairs to catch spotdodges and also try boost pivot grabs to make your grabs unpunishable.

I'm gonna check more character specific stuff later as I have people coming over but it's fairly promising for now. Spaced jab is generally fantastic but you have to read options very well. Standard jab is quite poor and tricky to follow up on for sure.

Jab Into smash moves still combo like they used to?

 

[Skarfelt]

Kiiinda. You have to dash Up Smash and I'm still not sure if it works on everyone.

 

[EndlessRain]

You can JC dash usmash on Robin. I haven't been able to try it on anyone else, but Robin is exactly middle of the pack in terms of weight, fall speed, and air speed, so it probably works on some others too.

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

my question is will Fox be like how he was in melee in the future or will he be just a mix of Smash 4 and melee, now with his shine being able to stage spike or at least just gimp characters. I'm a Fox main in Smash 4 and I'm just curious about the whole thing

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I'm glad the developers took out fox's jab cancel, which I felt was extremely stupid. However, I think they made an awful decision buffing his lasers, which I feel are almost as dumb than sheik's needles now. Laser camping, I think, will become a larger part of Fox's gameplan against some characters.

Shine buff is nice, but I think the move needs a bit more Knockback and damage to truly become a good edge guarding tool.

 

[Pudgetalks]

I'm glad the developers took out fox's jab cancel, which I felt was extremely stupid. However, I think they made an awful decision buffing his lasers, which I feel are almost as dumb than sheik's needles now. Laser camping, I think, will become a larger part of Fox's gameplan against some characters.

Shine buff is nice, but I think the move needs a bit more Knockback and damage to truly become a good edge guarding tool.

No way are Lasers as good as needles.
Lasers don't flinch, and they also don't set up in to a kill move, they also don't have 2 different angles you can use.
Needles are a much much better tool.

 

[Skarfelt]

While lasers are nowhere near as good as needles, the view on laser camping isn't exactly wrong. I'd imagine Fox will mostly just laser camp all day but the buff didn't change that much, just made it easier to perform.

People are saying that jab jab UpSmash works on everyone still. To clarify, do you mean the spaced jab that knocks up or the standard one? In practice the standard jab happens much more often but I haven't been able to USmash as a true combo but I'm possibly doing something wrong.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Hey guys, I've been trying to learn fox the last few days, and I was wondering if there is a guide or list that talks about basic combos when playing as fox? I know as an Ike main, Uthrow to Fair is an awesome true combo that we like to hold close. If there's not a thread, would anyone mind listing off a few big ones to me?

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

So I've pulled off Fox' jab cancels a number of times on the Wii U version and 3DS and I'm REALLY interested in frame data now. Jab 1 -> Jab 2 -> usmash/dsmash/grab worked a number of times. Jab 1 -> Jab 2 -> repeat also seems to work. You can repeat it over and over against some characters from one side of the stage to the other. Seems to be inescapable against some characters too. I really need to know the frame data of this, especially the frame advantage gained by hitting jab 2. It should be made public knowledge too because it could be huge.

I summon thee @Aerodrome !

After the patch that came out a few days ago? I pulled it off at low percents but once they get high enough I can't do it at least not yet. Before the patch, you could do it at almost any percentage. Although, I did find out that he could still jab grab; Jab 1 and then grab. Down air to up smash might be my favorite to kill though. Fox main since I was a kid:

 

[Skarfelt]

I don't wanna post jab combos as of right now after the patch, dunno how many are true. Off the top of my head;

• Dair to USmash, late Nair to USmash
• UTilt to Uair
• Pivot FTilt to Dair
• Down Throw to Fair to Uair on poor DI at low % - RAR Bair is probably your safest option

You can do a lot of combos off general feel and knowledge of the character though. Nairs, Bairs and Dairs extend combos very well. Nair/Dair/Fair catch airdodges if you're worried about that. On Battlefield you can chain Uair for days against a lot of characters - just be sure to fastfall the Uairs if you full hop them to reset your jump and punish airdodges. On Fox you wanna do a lot of baiting with superior movement/lasers/Bairs or whatever then punish with a grab, dash attack, up tilt or jab.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Hey guys, I've been trying to learn fox the last few days, and I was wondering if there is a guide or list that talks about basic combos when playing as fox? I know as an Ike main, Uthrow to Fair is an awesome true combo that we like to hold close. If there's not a thread, would anyone mind listing off a few big ones to me?

http://smashboards.com/guides/out-foxed-how-to-read-the-opponent-techs-and-setups.303/ This guide's pretty handy, but it might be better-suited for people who already have a good feel for the character. I recommend giving it a read anyway, you might find something of use to you.

 

[Foster J.]

Hip check Pivot Ftilt to Usmash is also a true combo setup, although this is mostly in the scenario where they are knocked behind you hence "hip check"

 

[Dekillsage]

People are saying that jab jab UpSmash works on everyone still. To clarify, do you mean the spaced jab that knocks up or the standard one? In practice the standard jab happens much more often but I haven't been able to USmash as a true combo but I'm possibly doing something wrong.

Does anyone have the answer to this question? I can only land usmash on people with spaced jab, never any other jab. If I can land it off any jab it'd be nice to know how and when to go for it.

 

[Rhus]

Does anyone have the answer to this question? I can only land usmash on people with spaced jab, never any other jab. If I can land it off any jab it'd be nice to know how and when to go for it.

Though I can't say that I have labbed this at all, I'm pretty sure that only tippered Jab2 combos into Usmash. If the untippered did, I could only ever see it working at high percents on extreme floaties but I just don't see it.

I have to do some testing with the untippered Jab>Dash attack, if it ever works. Because if it does that's pretty valuable (and we could kill Sheik at like 85 if it worked because Uair).

 

[Skarfelt]

I feel like close jab combos into tippered jab on some characters at KO%. Not sure though, will lab when I get back.

 

[Foster J.]

I feel like close jab combos into tippered jab on some characters at KO%. Not sure though, will lab when I get back.

Uhhh what? You mean at what percentages they are considered true combos against characters or how the tipper jab acts different from character to character?

 

[Skarfelt]

I mean like you do the first two jabs, they get knocked away, you then tipper jab and do whatever you need to do based on what character they are.

 

[Foster J.]

I mean like you do the first two jabs, they get knocked away, you then tipper jab and do whatever you need to do based on what character they are.

Now I get it. JabJab to 2nd jabjab that then tippers. I feel this works mostly on tall characters, as when I was trying to figure out the tipper jab true combo to Usmash percentages Ike was a bother to do it on, but Wario was rather easy.

 

[Ffamran]

I don't follow Fox stuff much, but I'm going to assume you guys and gals were aware that Fox's Fair, like Falco's, can spike people if it trades, right? Like here and here. Pretty sure Wario's Dair can do this as well. I think @TheReflexWonder has a video of it.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

A lot of us know you can fast fall a fair to send your opponent downward, but it sure doesn't hurt to make sure more people know about it: it's a really good technique for us.

 

[Pudgetalks]

A lot of us know you can fast fall a fair to send your opponent downward, but it sure doesn't hurt to make sure more people know about it: it's a really good technique for us.

I think he's talking about when we clank with a hitbox that it spikes our opponent without us falling as well.
Im not sure we can do that, (I've never seen it actually happen).

 

[EndlessRain]

Fair spikes as long as a) you're falling and b) you don't hit them with the last kick. As such, a trade will spike because you get hit away (generally upwards), so your attack is interrupted and the last hit doesn't even come out, and they get hit with one of the autolink attacks (which spike as long as you're falling).

 

[KentaKurodani]

Offstage fair to footstool is something that is done often by our top fox, Ksev. I'm planning on labbing out fair spike related stuff in the near future, it seems like a fantastic combo extender along with it being a pretty brutal edgeguard

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

How often does dthrow > fair work? A bunch of the cast seems to get out even in the early percentages.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Most of the cast can DI out at pretty early percentages, heavies are usually pretty easy to trap though.

 

[Foster J.]

How often does dthrow > fair work? A bunch of the cast seems to get out even in the early percentages.

At low percentages is where you can get it to work, the send you have them above 30 or so it's better to either chase their landing or throw out a running Nair / empty hop

 

[Skarfelt]

Somehow made it into Top 16 of Celtic Throwdown on Winner's Side despite playing absolutely awful all day. Check out the stream tomorrow before Paragon at twitch.tv/mscupcakes =]

 

[EndlessRain]

Are you really allowed to post this here, considering your best play was with friggin Link?

 

[Skarfelt]

Dude I've been telling Irish Smashers since JULY that I have the best Link in the whole god damned world and no one believed me

 

[Foster J.]

God damn a Link main in disguise! Why didn't you just bust Link out against Willz then and zone him LMAO

 

[Skarfelt]

Theres a lengthy pause between game 1 and 2 in that set where you can see my contemplating it but I'd literally never played the MU so I was scared =[

I'm gonna develop my Link more though, people seemed impressed with it so it could do with some work~

 

[Foster J.]

Theres a lengthy pause between game 1 and 2 in that set where you can see my contemplating it but I'd literally never played the MU so I was scared =[

I'm gonna develop my Link more though, people seemed impressed with it so it could do with some work~

When is the stream though

 

[Skarfelt]

We're starting at either 11 or 12 UK/Ireland time so an hour later for you at twitch.tv/celticthrowdown2

 

[Skarfelt]

NVM I'M A FRAUD PEACE