Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Popo Nana Power]

If Palutena is in, I hope she'll be a funny character. With silly expressions like Dedede, and funny in-battle dialogue like Marth.

 

[ChikoLad]

Inexplicable difference in thickness between where the hand is holding a staff and where it's not =/= clipping of clothing in motion (a common, near unavoidable issue in games).

Also irrelevant to the point that was being made; which was that the initial "leak" image is an edit of the newer clear image.
Which should be clear if you actually compare the two images in question.

Try again. Or don't, if you're not going to put up a half-decent counterpoint.

The newer leak is cut off quite a bit at the top. You can't even see all of her hair.

That puts serious doubt on the old one being an edit of the new, as the new one shows evidence of cropping.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Personally I think Palutena's thing will be graceful surface with a wacky center. I imagine her standard walks and stuff looking almost Rosalina levels of grace but then she whips out the fire claws and does a wolverine impression or something.

 

[Starbound]

The newer leak is cut off quite a bit at the top. You can't even see all of her hair.

That puts serious doubt on the old one being an edit of the new, as the new one shows evidence of cropping.

The new one isn't designed to be a leak, but designed to debunk the older one.

 

[ChikoLad]

The new one isn't designed to be a leak, but designed to debunk the older one.

Sorry, slip of the mind, I meant newer picture.

Point still stands though, the newer one seems like an edit of the old picture.

Another thing - if this is supposed to be a debunk, where is the "original clear picture" of the leak where Palutena is on her own?

 

[The Light Music Club]

Palutena confirmed as new main. I'll probably use her more than Pikachu, since I'm kind of sick of using him for what 6 years now? But yeah right now out of who is confirmed and Palutena, it's 1. Palutena (Cause I love her), 2. Pikachu (Because I'm used to him) 3. Little Mac (Even though I hate him, he fits my play of light and fast characters.)

Also, on the 2nd images staff, why does it lack an outline??

 

[AncientTobacco]

The other way around; it shows that the initial leak image was manipulated further from this new clearer version.
In the clearer image, the staff is proportionately thick from the part that is held to the rest of it.
In the initial "leak", the thickness of where is held is the same as the other image, but the rest of it is abnormally thicker and disproportionate.

Alone, the initial image would look decently natural. When compared to the new image, it looks entirely unnatural.


The leak is a fake.
Despite that, it doesn't mean anything in regards to Palutena's chances. She's still just as likely as she was before.
Just that those fabricated "leaks" aren't reflective of the real deal.

Look. At. The. Hand. The staff frigging CUTS OFF where it shouldn't cut off!

It's the outline. The new pic lacks the outline around the staff. Which, like you said, shows that the "leak" is indeed a further manipulated version of the new pic.

 

[Admiral Pit]

You and I think alike, but it's a tad more complicated with me.

I've mained Pit for 6 years, and had Bowser since melee, so I know Pit and Bowser are gonna stay, but there's always a chance that even Palutena will take priority over Pit as far as mains go.
To make it easier:

-Bowser: He'll be the lowest of my mains, but will still play as him at times.
-Pit: A competition between #1 or #2 with Palutena.
-Palutena: Depends on her style and abilities, etc... to determine if she'll be #1 or #2 main. Tier lists MIGHT have a small impact too.

 

[andimidna]

I don't know why, but I want more Palutena leaks, even if they're fake!
It's interesting to see what people can do with her design.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

The so called disproval of the leak means nothing to me, I still think Palutena is going to be playable

 

[Admiral Pit]

Agreed as well. Her chances are just so up there that leaks don't matter. We're just waiting for the months to go by so we can see the truth.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's the outline. The new pic lacks the outline around the staff. Which, like you said, shows that the "leak" is indeed a further manipulated version of the new pic.

You're forgetting about the cropping.

Also, the staff would have an outline in the game, as Link's sword does, for example. The staff having an outline in the old pic is not suspicious at all. However, the new image being cropped is, because if that is the supposed original, then why would the old image have more to the image? It doesn't make sense.

And as I said before, the fact that we don't have a clear version of the other leaked picture is suspicious. If this new pic is supposed to prove that the guy faked it, why didn't he show us the "original version" of the other leaked picture?

 

[FalKoopa]

The disproving of the leak doesn't mean much to me, as I never invested myself in it.

For me, she was confirmed as soon as the Pseudo-Palutena trophy was shown (I did get scared at that moment for real though.)

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm certain she's in regardless of the leak's legitimacy, I just don't see how the new picture debunks it in the slightest. There's too many holes in the picture when you think about it in relation to it's origin story.

And yeah, that Pseudo-Palutena trophy brought my spirits down for a minute too.

 

[Banjodorf]

My initial reaction was;

"No...no way...that can't be her! We don't know ANYTHING! The end is ni-oh... Sakurai, you sly *******..."

 

[Starbound]

I just don't see how the new picture debunks it in the slightest. There's too many holes in the picture when you think about it in relation to it's origin story.

Ditto.

The story behind the new picture is sketchy at best. It claims the model is from Uprising when it actually, we've said for months that it's a new model.

 

[ChikoLad]

The 3DS hasn't even been hacked yet, so I don't see how anyone could rip the model out of Uprising. I can't find model rips for any 3DS games when I search for them either. The only possible model that could be used is the Brawl one, but this looks nothing like the Brawl model accept for being Palutena.

 

[AncientTobacco]

And as I said before, the fact that we don't have a clear version of the other leaked picture is suspicious. If this new pic is supposed to prove that the guy faked it, why didn't he show us the "original version" of the other leaked picture?

You do know that the guy who posted the debunk pic isn't the "leaker", right? He only knows the guy. Thus, he might only have this work-in-progress version of the first "leak" pic.

And "the story behind the new picture is sketchy"? How about the story behind the old pic, in which the "leaker" pretended that the pics had already been posted?

 

[Deleted member]

It's the outline. The new pic lacks the outline around the staff. Which, like you said, shows that the "leak" is indeed a further manipulated version of the new pic.

It's more than just the outline. Look at the lighter blue right before the outline. The way she's holding it, it should be visible over her palm, but it's not.

Instead, just the dark blue of the center can be seen.

 

[Banjodorf]

You can keep arguing about it, but does it really matter in the end?

 

[ChikoLad]

You do know that the guy who posted the debunk pic isn't the "leaker", right? He only knows the guy. Thus, he might only have this work-in-progress version of the first "leak" pic.

And "the story behind the new picture is sketchy"? How about the story behind the old pic, in which the "leaker" pretended that the pics had already been posted?

But it was stated that he knew the leaker. Why didn't he just ask for the other picture? The leaker would have no reason to refuse if the original leak is indeed fake.

 

[Hinata]

The disproving of the leak doesn't mean much to me, as I never invested myself in it.

For me, she was confirmed as soon as the Pseudo-Palutena trophy was shown (I did get scared at that moment for real though.)

That was a real troll move. I mean, if you paid attention, you could've seen the purple skin before Sakurai showed it was Pseudo-Palutena, but we were too busy worrying our goddess was deconfirmed.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

It really doesn't matter if the leaks are real, because the Direct pretty much confrimed her. The leak did however, bring more supporters for Palutena, heck, some people I know, myself included, bought Kid Icarus Uprising due to the leak.

 

[andimidna]

It's more than just the outline. Look at the lighter blue right before the outline. The way she's holding it, it should be visible over her palm, but it's not.

Instead, just the dark blue of the center can be seen.

I think how me and Erotic&Heretic were looking at the leak was:

Instead of her hand being directly behind the staff holding it, her hand is in the middle of the staff, it's clipping inside of it.
I don't look at it like the staff is changing shapes, but that her fingers are coming out of the staff before it ends.
Do you see it? Look closely, I may not have described what I'm seeing well enough.

 

[Deleted member]

I think how me and Erotic&Heretic were looking at the leak was:

Instead of her hand being directly behind the staff holding it, her hand is in the middle of the staff, it's clipping inside of it.
I don't look at it like the staff is changing shapes, but that her fingers are coming out of the staff before it ends.
Do you see it? Look closely, I may not have described what I'm seeing well enough.

That's quite farfetched.
Why would such clipping be present in the "real" leak, and not be present in the supposed "mock-up" image?

 

[The Light Music Club]

That's quite farfetched.
Why would such clipping be present in the "real" leak, and not be present in the supposed "mock-up" image?

Because Nintendo. You can't fake that clipping!

 

[andimidna]

That's quite farfetched.

It really isn't. I see no reason to believe that anything else is more likely regarding her hand and staff.
It looks like what is happening, and we've seen it happen countless times in real game footage and pictures.

Why would such clipping be present in the "real" leak, and not be present in the supposed "mock-up" image?

Same could be said to you. Why would the staff be skinny/crooked in the leak but straight/normal in the mock-up image?

 

[The Light Music Club]

I feel like we are playing spot the difference off a cereal box or something....

With Mario's head, eyes, and the staff orb color being wrong as well as it lacking the outline, how does that help the leak and how does it hurt it? I'm confused on all this and what to think about this new image. I still believe in the leak, I'm just wondering why these differences exist.

 

[ChikoLad]

I feel like we are playing spot the difference off a cereal box or something....

With Mario's head, eyes, and the staff orb color being wrong as well as it lacking the outline, how does that help the leak and how does it hurt it? I'm confused on all this and what to think about this new image. I still believe in the leak, I'm just wondering why these differences exist.

The new image is someone trying to claim they know who made the original leaked images and that they are fake. A lot of things don't add up with that story though.

 

[The Light Music Club]

The new image is someone trying to claim they know who made the original leaked images and that they are fake. A lot of things don't add up with that story though.

Yeah, I mean I get that, but how does this image help that story? I mean this image has so many differences.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeah, I mean I get that, but how does this image help that story? I mean this image has so many differences.

Well, that's exactly what I've been getting at. The new image is clearly cropped and everything.

Even if the original leak is fake, and isn't the original image, the new, clear image is not the original image either. It doesn't add up at all, and you'd think the guy who initially posted this new image would have posted a "debunk" for the other leaked image of Palutena where she has her arm extended forward.

And on another note, I think Palutena will be in the game regardless, but I still think the original leak leans towards being real more than fake, and I kinda want it to be real, as it would be pretty historical!

 

[Louie G.]

I want the leak to be fake, only for Palutena to be in the game regardless.
Now THAT would be entertaining.

 

[Banjodorf]

I want the leak to be fake, only for Palutena to be in the game regardless.
Now THAT would be entertaining.

Well, at this point I'm pretty sure that's whats happening. Like I've said, if the leak is fake, that just means she's going to have a better face.

 

[Groose]

Hmmm...

If you'll take a look, you'll notice that the debunk is cropped down from the actual leak itself (the red border I placed on the bottom image isn't exact, but it's pretty close to how the crop was made). Although this is circumstantial evidence and definitely not enough to overthrow the debunk on its own, it does lend a bit of credence to the whole "the debunk is made from the leak" perspective. It explains how the debunker could have acquired an "offscreen image"--they could have just performed a simple crop and then corrected the resulting image's coloration.

Another thing I find fishy with the debunk is the usage of Brawl Mario's head. I fully understand that the image given for the debunk could have been altered pretty extensively before it was turned into the actual leak, but man--that is quite a drastic change they made. Look at how much the brim of Mario's hat and his eyes changed from the debunk to the leak. That's a pretty drastic change for a simple photoshop; they must have manipulated quite a bit of things in order for that to look like SSB4's Mario model.

...I can't find anything decisive against the debunk, and some things (like Palutena's staff) definitely seem to favor the debunk over the leak. Even so, I'm not rushing to accept its legitimacy.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Personally I think she's gorgeous in the image with just her, but has a fat nose in her profile view. Kinda hope its fake because she looks better in Uprising imo.

 

[Groose]

Okay, I decided to dig a little bit deeper into this whole leak vs. debunk thing. I started this off by making a hypothesis: the debunk is a mere manipulation of the leak itself.

I started out by taking by looking at Mario's head, as this is the area that differs the most from the leak and the debunk. I noticed that the head on the debunk covers up a lot of area that is just empty air in the leak; this supports the claim that the debunk's Brawl head could be easily placed on top of the head in the leak itself. I actually found one suspicious thing in the debunk seems like near-decisive evidence for this theory: please note the circle on the bottom left in each image.

Do you see the really dark brown portion in the upper (debunk) picture? I don't know why that's there. It really doesn't look like it's part of the Brawl model's hair; it actually seems to match up to the hair in the bottom picture, which is darker and drops all the way down to the shoulders. I initially took this as evidence that the head in the debunk was indeed shopped directly on top of the head in the leak.

However, you're probably observant and have noticed that I've circled not one but two points per picture. In the debunk, Mario's nose does not cover up very much of the rock in the background; in the leak, however, it does. This seems to counteract the point that I brought up with the hair and it definitively shows that the the debunk can not be something merely photoshopped on the top of the leak.

For a final test, I took the leak into iPhoto (a program which I just got last week and have never used in my life before today). With just ten minutes of editing, I was able to manipulate the colors in the leak to look nearly identical to the colors in the debunk; I restored the brighter red coloration to Mario's shirt and fixed up Palutena's hair. This would imply that the debunk could be based off of the leak because its coloration can be artificially created; however, I have my doubts about this, and it all goes back to the rock. Despite my best efforts, I was unable to get the rock in the leak to resemble the color of the rock in the debunk. True, I may be a novice with the software I was using, but I was unable to make it resemble anything like what it should have been.

After analyzing both images for an hour (and taking into account @GoldenYuiitusin 's earlier efforts), I think that the debunk is most likely the correct image. I deem it to be considerably more difficult to take the leak and change it into the debunk than it would be to take the debunk and change it into the leak. Even so, I do not think that I can definitely say that it is the right image; I think it is, but I would not stake anything considerable on it.

One thing that the leak still has in its favor is that the entire "the angle of the shot and the rock seen were not seen before." I honestly have not done a full evaluation yet on this, and have just trusted the words of others. I have no more time to pry into this matter tonight (I have to get to RTC now), but I plan on investigating this as soon as I can. It is fully possible that an analysis of this would change me back into the stance that the leak is real; as for now, however, I am on #TeamDebunked.

 

[The Light Music Club]

There is one thing I don't understand. For someone to go and create an entire new model of Palutena and not have the color of the orb right. That doesn't make sense to me at all. If I were to make a model as detailed as this, I would want it to be colored correctly wouldn't you. Someone for the love of Palutena explain to me why the colors of the orbs are different, as I find this to be significant. And not only is the orb a different color, but the part that she is holding is black, while in the leak it is blue.

 

[Deleted member]

It really isn't. I see no reason to believe that anything else is more likely regarding her hand and staff.
It looks like what is happening, and we've seen it happen countless times in real game footage and pictures.

Yes it is. Because it's not clipping. If the issue was clipping, there would be the problem that Palutena's just phasing her hand through the staff like nothing's there, which would be a huge oversight on Sakurai's or whoever is in charge of modeling's part.
The problem is, the "mock-up" and the "leak" have her holding the staff in the same way at the same level of thickness. The "mock-up" has the same thickness for the staff through and through; it's natural. The "leak" has the staff thicker than the "mock-up" EXCEPT for where she's holding it; it's unnatural and obviously modified.

Same could be said to you. Why would the staff be skinny/crooked in the leak but straight/normal in the mock-up image?

Because the "leak" is modified from the "mock-up"? Duh.

 

[Grayson]

So what's going on with this whole leak debunking business?

 

[andimidna]

Question: Would you prefer Palutena to take some of Pit's old moves, or have a completely new moveset?