Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

Eh, I dunno. Farore's Wind has far more end lag than Warp does and that makes it really easy to punish if Zelda uses it on/above stage (My friend plays Zelda and I blow him up every time he uses FW to do anything other than recover to the ledge). Vanish has a lot of startup (Mitigated by the fact that it also has a lot of invincibility frames) and it doesn't travel very far. Zelda and Sheik might be able to ledge cancel their teleports but I don't think it would be useful for them at all.

If Warp is worse than those two, it's only by a little.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Their hitboxes are useful though (for killing). Warp has no hitbox

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

I guess I don't think much of either move because I've never been hit by them in a serious match, and I consistently knock my friend out of the startup of FW, lol.

 

[TheRealPalutena]

I think its rather situational...FW is going to be better for killing people obviously. At the same time I think Warp is better for escaping bad situations.

Thats just my opinion at least from playing both of them.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Warp isn't terrible to me. I do love them tricks, and though some slopes on stages really hurt her recovering with it, it's not terrible. Some stages just have to be avoided... In the 3ds version, the evil Magicant omega slope hurts Palutena warping so very much, for example.

 

[BJN39]

I would say Farore's Wind is more useful (Eauxkay, I main Zelda, but that's not why, lol.)

They both disappear at close to the same speed. (If someone had the frame data for Palu's disappear, I could make sure.) But Zelda's grounded disappear hit-box isn't merely a circle, it's actually a capsule-shaped hit-box, giving it even more horizontal range. It works pretty well JC OoS whether you're finishing your opponent at 70-80% with a FW elevator, or simply just using it OoS on them at low % for the hit, and then teleporting down/elsewhere. It comes out on frame 7, so it's pretty fast there. Though, no Zeldas are using it OoS at low opponnet %s for the simple 6% punish yet.

Of course, Zelda's reappear DOES have more endlag, but it also has more distance, and of course the power hit-box upon reappear. Basically, a careful Zelda won't let that endlag come into play, and will probably not use it unless they're snapping the ledge, or are certainly catching a FW elevator.

With my opinion of that in mind, Palu's warp is still a great recovery tool. Just because I think Zelda's is more useful, does not mean I don't think Palu's isn't. I bet ledge-cancelling could be pretty neat for ha, at least to mind-game and get around.

 

[Funkermonster]

How to utilize Super Speed? Been hearing great things about this move but I dunno what to do with it.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

How to utilize Super Speed? Been hearing great things about this move but I dunno what to do with it.

And you main Sonic? Pretty much just do Sonic things. Except you can now do an invincible dash attack,grab, dodge, and up-smash out of it along with Sonic's other options.

 

[Zediwonder]

Stop super speed mid air and you can slide into jabs, smashes and tilts, utilt off super speed is surprisingly good.
(pretty sure the slide is longer with light weight but I'm not certain)

You can slide if you jump at the right time as well and you can do it on the ground as well, it's really good to make use of so long as you areen't running into projectiles. You can only use moves at the end of the slide as far as I can tell, unless there's some way to cancel super speed that will let you do otherwise that I'm not aware of. (It's the most useful for jabs or you can slide past someone and surprise them with a fsmash/dsmash depending on spacing)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Once again you queens are only talking bout customs.


smh...

Because people want to make Palutena worse apparently.

 

[JayWon]

^ not enough reflect.

 

[Wintropy]

Trying to figure out the appropriate uses of jab.

Anybody want to help me out here?

 

[Zediwonder]

Trying to figure out the appropriate uses of jab.

Anybody want to help me out here?

It's good for stopping approaches with it's long range for a jab, after jab 1 if you pause for a moment you can follow up into a dash grab, you can just normally grab as well but you can whiff it. I personally use it as a hit confirm because you can't really punish it, opponent shields you can still go for a grab but a good player will probably spot dodge it. This is only Jab1 of course, the entire sequence of jabs is punishable if they shield it, but jab1 isn't.

It's not something I use a lot, weird dash mechanics in Smash 4 mean that even after stopping, the dash attack still comes out for a certain period of time even in neutral, I don't fully understand it but it's definitely there and makes going for jabs a lot harder.

 

[Maraphy]

Because people want to talk about all of the cool things she can't legally do in tournaments

it's almost as if she's holding back

 

[Zediwonder]

I appreciate all the Zelda players input on Warp v Farore's wind, teleporting moves are great I just have a really bad habit of killing myself using them. Most of the time I'm too afraid to attempt diagonal or sideways recoveries off the stage, I feel this has a lot to do with my experience using teleporting moves, none, till smash 4 came out and I started playing Palutena. Any tips on how to avoid killing myself with warp?

 

[Shrokatii]

I appreciate all the Zelda players input on Warp v Farore's wind, teleporting moves are great I just have a really bad habit of killing myself using them. Most of the time I'm too afraid to attempt diagonal or sideways recoveries off the stage, I feel this has a lot to do with my experience using teleporting moves, none, till smash 4 came out and I started playing Palutena. Any tips on how to avoid killing myself with warp?

I personally try to recover low, NEVER sideways. But that's me. Go into training mode and experiment with it. Play with the range etc. Other than that, if you're playing 3DS, tap on her portrait with the little box thing. It helps a bit.

 

[kmpyj]

I started getting use to teleports when Project M brought back Mewtwo. Plus at that same time, I started fooling around with Zelda (PM Zelda though... ).

Anyway, in terms of what I find more useful between FW and Warp, I'm going to have to say I like Warp more. It's not because I Mained Palutena (because I still have Zelda as one of my secondary mains thanks to PM) but it's because to me I love the tech behind Palutena's warp, and how quickly she can work with it. Sure, Zelda's teleport does have a very.......devastating hit box and it can travel farther, but it just feels sluggish in comparison. I think it mainly has to do with her ending animation, especially if she teleports and respawns in the air. Where as Palutena would just drop afterwards, Zelda will stay in the air a little longer until she begins to fall. Then there is the teleport cancel. Palutena and Zelda are the only two characters that can warp cancel......at least, they are the only two I know of. I tried with other characters with some form of a teleport, but it never work for me (still needs more testing). But one thing I do know is that Palutena's teleport cancel's window is a little wider compared to Zelda's, meaning that I can go a little bit pass the "sweet spot" and Palutena will still be able to teleport cancel, where as Zelda's has to be just right. The sweet spot I am talking about can be found on any stage after performing a teleport cancel, and then teleporting back.

To save us the trouble of the math behind teleport cancel, for now we will just use the Up B ground version, lol.

Though this is kinda rough, here is an example of what I mean:

l = "sweet spot"

_l__ :With Palutena, I can go a little bit backwards, and somewhat forwards and can still teleport cancel.

l :With Zelda, I have to be right at that spot or else it could end me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Zelda's FW is bad, but I just find Palutena's warp more useful, without putting me in an unfavorable position. As a matter of fact, Zelda's FW is a much better recovery move IMO.

I guess it really just boils down to your preferences, because both moves have their usefulness.

On a side note, I am still working on that Palutena guide video. Haven't forgotten about that.

 

[faderpotater]

Hello everyone, I'm the only palutena main in Tallahassee that I know of and I wanted to ask a bit about the roll cancel grab mentioned a few pages ago.

So I was playing with it and I found it not to hard to execute but rather lacking in any form of extra distance. I even did some quick little tests on a stage that had a lot of markings with which I could visually gauge any differences from the normal dash grand and found that they seemed to be exactly the same distance if not of by a very small amount.

My question is if there is no noticeable change in distance does the roll cancel grab provide any benefit or is it mainly for styling at this point on palutena?

 

[Shrokatii]

Hello everyone, I'm the only palutena main in Tallahassee that I know of and I wanted to ask a bit about the roll cancel grab mentioned a few pages ago.

So I was playing with it and I found it not to hard to execute but rather lacking in any form of extra distance. I even did some quick little tests on a stage that had a lot of markings with which I could visually gauge any differences from the normal dash grand and found that they seemed to be exactly the same distance if not of by a very small amount.

My question is if there is no noticeable change in distance does the roll cancel grab provide any benefit or is it mainly for styling at this point on palutena?

To me it's not that great for her. At all. Unless I'm doing it wrong, it really just seems like she's grabbing with her dodge sound effect. I don't use it with her, it doesn't seem useful.

 

[faderpotater]

To me it's not that great for her. At all. Unless I'm doing it wrong, it really just seems like she's grabbing with her dodge sound effect. I don't use it with her, it doesn't seem useful.

That's pretty much exactly how I felt too. Ah well at least she has a pretty good grab range even without.

Haven't viewed any forums in a while, can anyone inform me what the official verdict on dthrow into usmash is? I feel like it is not reliable as it is too easy to react to with an air dodge or just di'ing away from after an air dodge. My friend whom I consider a much better player feels it can be done consistently if you condition your opponent throughout the match and get an idea on how they react to it normally.

 

[Zediwonder]

dthrow to uair is more reliable than any other KO option even if it's not 100% at higher percentages. at high percent you can probably bait out the air dodge and still have time to uair, I've tried it a few times with mixed results, sometimes the KO hit doesn't go off because it auto cancels on the ground and other times it goes off before I hit the ground, it all depends on how high you need to jump to pull it off. You can try using the air dodge to go for a smash move, instead of jumping after them go for a smash attack or something.

alternatively if customs ever become legal in wii u play super speed always combo's into uair.

 

[faderpotater]

dthrow to uair is more reliable than any other KO option even if it's not 100% at higher percentages. at high percent you can probably bait out the air dodge and still have time to uair, I've tried it a few times with mixed results, sometimes the KO hit doesn't go off because it auto cancels on the ground and other times it goes off before I hit the ground, it all depends on how high you need to jump to pull it off. You can try using the air dodge to go for a smash move, instead of jumping after them go for a smash attack or something.

alternatively if customs ever become legal in wii u play super speed always combo's into uair.

I definitely primarily try and kill with uair, I may continue to play around with usmash and see if I can start mind gaming people throughout the match with it.

Also the last hit of uair can definitely be weird sometimes. I do like its weird nature though as a few times I get a kill even if I miss most of the uair because they get to close while trying to counter attack and get bopped by the last hit. I definitely think it is one of the moves you can catch people off guard with if they haven't played against palutena often.

 

[Saki-]

Tried to utilize a lot of things I read from the boards and learned from Admiral from the ditto this past weekend at KiT but got double bopped by Rosalina in pools. MU prac will be a must before my next regional.


I only got one match on stream so I'll try and study that a bit but I'm sure my biggest issue is lack of a mixup game lol

 

[Hiemie]

Alright, I'm a Duck Hunt main, looking for a secondary, someone suggested Palutena cause one of my trouble matchups is Shiek. Is this a wise path? As a note, I don't really use Custom movesets.

 

[Maraphy]

Alright, I'm a Duck Hunt main, looking for a secondary, someone suggested Palutena cause one of my trouble matchups is Shiek. Is this a wise path? As a note, I don't really use Custom movesets.

I don't think Palutena is a hard counter to Sheik by any means; the matchup has always felt neutral if not SLIGHTLY tipped in Sheik's favor in my experience, but if that's an improvement over Duck Hunt's matchup with Sheik and if you like playing as Palutena then I say go for it.

 

[faderpotater]

Alright, I'm a Duck Hunt main, looking for a secondary, someone suggested Palutena cause one of my trouble matchups is Shiek. Is this a wise path? As a note, I don't really use Custom movesets.

If you like kind of tough but rewarding characters I would say palutena is a good second. She has a nice variety of play styles from all the different opinions I have seen on the boards and she has some really cool tricks with custom moves if you are interested in that. In addition she has arguably one of the best grab games and really good aerials minus her dair. That all being said I don't personally feel she matches against shiak that well. From my experience and from a few posts I have seen she is really weak against hard pressure, which shiek is great at. I would wait for a few more opinions but that is my assessment of the character and mu.

 

[Maraphy]

so this happened http://marraphy.tumblr.com/post/108047889252

 

[Xys]

so this happened http://marraphy.tumblr.com/post/108047889252

I can't stop watching this loop.

 

[SBphiloz4]

Ayyyy Palutena nerds. :^)

 

[faderpotater]

My friend convinced me to try playing online so I could practice against real people when no one else is around. The salt is too real. Also online feels super icky with palutena, I just feel like I can't move as well.

 

[Xys]

 

[faderpotater]

Yeah that is exactly what online felt like.

 

[xnine]

I agree, I feel like I play far more poorly online than I do with friends. I have a greater than 60% winrate when I'm playing with my friends, but I do absolutely terrible online. Evidently, my friend says he does great online...

Maybe we just have to adjust to the microdelay?

 

[faderpotater]

I miss shield grabs online, like shield grabs I commonly get. It also messes up my spacing horribly.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

I find Palutena to be incredibly hard to play in lag, too. I don't play offline very often but whenever I do my performance boosts dramatically. That's not to say I do terrible with Palutena online, my winrate with her is rather high (Somewhere around 83%, and that's counting battles with friends, not just FG), but I feel it's much harder to win.

This is why I'm still surprised that Palutena somehow managed to place 24th on Anther's (purely result-based) tier-list.

 

[Zediwonder]

even with slight lag delays Palutena is really hard to play, most of her combos require decent timing, certainly not frame perfect timing but the timing is still decently strict.

I use visual cues to know when I can jump after a dthrow to go for the fair but online you're way more likely to miss, even spamming jump during the grab (don't do that you'll waste your jumps) you're likely to miss because the lag will make you input fair and it come out seconds later than your input which has really strict timing if you want a guaranteed hit.

Palutena's aerials are also really fast and really small and easy to miss without good timing and placement, lag just throws that off and because lag changes every game and even every second of every match you can't really get used to it to learn.

 

[faderpotater]

I lost to someone's ike and I am almost certain it wasn't his main as it was like the third character he switched after he kept beating me. I was very upset as I feel like that is a mu I am pretty strong in.

 

[Furret]

HI! Someone told me to take page 200

praise the smash goddess!

EDIT:
celebratory pics!

Spoiler

 

[Zediwonder]

Losing to lag is terrible for 2 reasons

1. You know you could do better

2. Everyone will claim johns when you blame lag

 

[faderpotater]

Losing to lag is terrible for 2 reasons

1. You know you could do better

2. Everyone will claim johns when you blame lag

For me its losing to someone you know you can beat, then watching them cycle through their second and third characters and you still lose to them. It is super insulting for me.