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Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

TsuKiyoMe

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
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281
Location
Sicklerville, NJ
Got slapped around a bit by AdmiralPit. Will stream more tomorrow/Friday night. I learned SOOOO many things from AdmiralPit.

Was not aware that Reflect is unblockable. Shut me down every time I got up in his face or tried to block his pressure.

Our connection wasn't the greatest though so lots of SDs and tons of bad plays. Even if I only won like 30~40% of the matches, I think I learned so much and have so many things to apply that I can only see this helping strengthen me as a player. The way he plays her is exactly how I envisioned playing her and some of his options are things I never considered that fill in a lot of holes.

Also... his edge guard game is on point.
 

Eisal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 8, 2014
Messages
171
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Stockholm
Watched your stream and learned a lot from it, a lot that I need to practice myself.

I'll look forward to see more of your stream and see what we can learn from Palutena.
 

Admiral Pit

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Got slapped around a bit by AdmiralPit. Will stream more tomorrow/Friday night. I learned SOOOO many things from AdmiralPit.

Was not aware that Reflect is unblockable. Shut me down every time I got up in his face or tried to block his pressure.

Our connection wasn't the greatest though so lots of SDs and tons of bad plays. Even if I only won like 30~40% of the matches, I think I learned so much and have so many things to apply that I can only see this helping strengthen me as a player. The way he plays her is exactly how I envisioned playing her and some of his options are things I never considered that fill in a lot of holes.

Also... his edge guard game is on point.

I apologize for the connection being terrible. I feel like that was one of those days where I feel the connection goes derpy (probably because of school being busy or something). While I'm sad about few losses and bad inputs as well, I'm kinda happy I got to show a few tricks here and there and teach a few things.
Thanks to the matches, I'm hoping it'll help make Reflect Barrier a more useful move to use, including pushing away someone who's holding their shield up since it does hit even through shield. Here's things I'm experimenting with as of late

-Single Jab x 2 > D-air spike
I actually want to experiment with this more when you catch an opponent with the first single jab to the point where they can't use their midair jump, and they can't reach the stage.

-Single Jab > Reflect
This is an alternative that I've been experimenting with. Instead of the usual jab > grab thing, what if your opponent was close to the ledge? Why not push em off with Reflect Barrier?

But yea, I'll be glad to help again when you stream, and well if other Palutena appear, why not? I wouldn't mind being part of a Palutena party (especially around New Year's with Celestial Fireworks) if it came down to it as well. I'm honored to be of help in general at least. It'll help me feel happy as well for being useful to the Palutena boards. For all in all,

:4palutena: Stay strong and bright in the name of the light!:4palutena:


And I do get hurt badly by AeroLink if it helps. He learned so fast. :(
 

Eisal

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 8, 2014
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Stockholm
Thank you for your help and performance AdmiralPit!

Learned a lot watching you and TsuKiyoMe battle it out and showing each other stuff.

Looking forward to see more in the future!

-

I just noticed I have every custom move on Palutena, and only her. Other characters only have one or two but Palutena got them all, how come? I have only played online with her and I usually play with Ganondorf or Ike offline.

Do you unlock custom moves playing online?
 

Admiral Pit

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Palutena's customs are automatically available at the start, along with the wretched Miis. Playing Online will not help you get em.
 

Eisal

Smash Apprentice
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Palutena's customs are automatically available at the start, along with the wretched Miis. Playing Online will not help you get em.
Oh! Alright. Is there a reason why her custom moves are available from the start compared to the other characters?
 

Admiral Pit

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Oh! Alright. Is there a reason why her custom moves are available from the start compared to the other characters?
I suppose of because of how unique the customs are, not that I'm complaining because I love her customs.
 

Eisal

Smash Apprentice
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I suppose of because of how unique the customs are, not that I'm complaining because I love her customs.
Maybe it's because in Palutena's reveal trailer she showed all of the customs off, which sure are pretty unique compared to others. While in other character trailers, none of the customs where shown.

Frankly I think her customs are *** tier.
I've heard that people think her neutral B and the customs for it are pretty meh, but super speed and that other one that makes her fast are pretty good.
 

TsuKiyoMe

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Watched your stream and learned a lot from it, a lot that I need to practice myself.

I'll look forward to see more of your stream and see what we can learn from Palutena.
Thanks. If I can teach people something, that's great. If they can teach me something, even better. I stream so we can all learn.

I'll will try to stream tomorrow night and Friday. I will definitely stream Saturday morning though as I have a lot of free time there.
 

TheRealPalutena

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Dec 1, 2014
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Atlanta GA
At first I wasn't going to post this because of how ridiculously laggy it is. But this is the Link of the VOD when I play against Reflex on stream.

Vs Reflex (Puff) 1:26:30 http://www.twitch.tv/gbdojo/b/596511586

If you can deal with it and tell me you think. I'd really appreciate it ^.^

I'm pretty aware of my mistakes I made during this match. But i'd like to know what others suggest also.
 

Rashid

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At first I wasn't going to post this because of how ridiculously laggy it is. But this is the Link of the VOD when I play against Reflex on stream.

Vs Reflex (Puff) 1:26:30 http://www.twitch.tv/gbdojo/b/596511586

If you can deal with it and tell me you think. I'd really appreciate it ^.^

I'm pretty aware of my mistakes I made during this match. But i'd like to know what others suggest also.
I wanted to think of advice, but... good lord, those handsome men. <3 Especially that commentator on the right.

I mean... you had the right idea to rely on bair and fair against Jigglypuff. Reflex was playing too offensively and really pressured you, so I figured maybe you could try giving yourself some space/breathing room.
Also, whenever Jigglypuff's above you, try to pursue her and bait air dodges. She can't do much to defend herself from below.
Like I suggested earlier, try buffering an action at the ledge to avoid the Coldsteel (ledge trump + KO move). I'm not 100% sure it works. ...I should probably test it out before mentioning it again.
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
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Like I suggested earlier, try buffering an action at the ledge to avoid the Coldsteel (ledge trump + KO move). I'm not 100% sure it works. ...I should probably test it out before mentioning it again.
Buffered jump, roll, and attack take priority over ledge trump. Other ledge options do not.
 

TheRealPalutena

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I wanted to think of advice, but... good lord, those handsome men. <3 Especially that commentator on the right.

I mean... you had the right idea to rely on bair and fair against Jigglypuff. Reflex was playing too offensively and really pressured you, so I figured maybe you could try giving yourself some space/breathing room.
Also, whenever Jigglypuff's above you, try to pursue her and bait air dodges. She can't do much to defend herself from below.
Like I suggested earlier, try buffering an action at the ledge to avoid the Coldsteel (ledge trump + KO move). I'm not 100% sure it works. ...I should probably test it out before mentioning it again.
Yea. I actually asked him about that directly after the match. But yea...You buffer an action. I wasn't even aware of that b4 this match sadly enough. I can point out several moments in both those matches i could have took control or even won the game. I was so mad at myself after i lost :(
 

Zediwonder

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At first I wasn't going to post this because of how ridiculously laggy it is. But this is the Link of the VOD when I play against Reflex on stream.

Vs Reflex (Puff) 1:26:30 http://www.twitch.tv/gbdojo/b/596511586

If you can deal with it and tell me you think. I'd really appreciate it ^.^

I'm pretty aware of my mistakes I made during this match. But i'd like to know what others suggest also.
They were some great matches and your Palutena is way better than mine.

Fair is great but it's really easily punished when shielded and every time you short hopped in front of Reflex he knew you were going for it and punished it. The first stock he got on battlefield it was obvious you were fast falling to warp for the ledge, I don't know if you'd be able to buffer before getting knocked off the ledge but fast falling there was probably the biggest mistake I saw as it was an easy read.

Other than that amazing play, you mixed up your fair and bair to keep them guessing and tossed in a few nair at the perfect chances and your uair's were all well calculated plays that were impressive. Hope this doesn't come off too harsh, I was really impressed with the matches.
 

Fluttershy

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So has there been anything new with Palutena since I've been away playing ORAS?
(I'm a bit Curious as to how many Palutena mains are in MD now lol)
 

Eisal

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 8, 2014
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Stockholm
So has there been anything new with Palutena since I've been away playing ORAS?
(I'm a bit Curious as to how many Palutena mains are in MD now lol)
Nothing new as far as I know. People said there was some minor buff to her ftilt lag or something similar, other than that, I don't know.

But some of just learned that Reflect is actually unblockable so that's something!
 

GwJ

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I thought I was gonna main or at least secondary Palutena a short while ago, but with the mystery around the inclusion of custom moves in tournaments, I'm very weary.

I REALLY don't like Palutena's stock B moves, but I don't know enough about her to say if that's justified or not. Can someone tell me generally what's valuable about Palutena and what appears to be the best playstyle at the moment?

And what's this about reflect being unblockable? Doesn't it just reflect projectiles? Are the projectiles unblockable?
 

ChivalRuse

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Joined
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Messages
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College Park, MD
I thought I was gonna main or at least secondary Palutena a short while ago, but with the mystery around the inclusion of custom moves in tournaments, I'm very weary.

I REALLY don't like Palutena's stock B moves, but I don't know enough about her to say if that's justified or not. Can someone tell me generally what's valuable about Palutena and what appears to be the best playstyle at the moment?

And what's this about reflect being unblockable? Doesn't it just reflect projectiles? Are the projectiles unblockable?
Reflect has a weird property that causes your opponent to move in slow motion. I haven't been able to test whether or not these claims about it being "unblockable" are true because I don't get my Wii U back for a week and a half, but I'm am definitely very interested in messing around with some ideas now.

To answer your question about what is appealing about Palutena, as far as what her "pros" are:

-She has very good ground speed movement since her dash is very quick.
-She has a dash attack that will KO between 100-130% depending on rage, and the move itself is fast and easy to land, which is always good (easier to land than, say, Dedede's dash attack).
-She has very reliable d-throw -> aerial combos. D-throw -> uair is actually a great finisher if you grab around 100% depending on the character and their DI on the throw. At low percents, d-throw -> nair is pretty much a guaranteed 15% combo with potential follow-ups after.
-She has a high priority bair that can KO, and her fair has amazing range.
-Her upsmash KOs and has a huge hitbox in front of her and above her, giving her unique ways of catching aerial opponents.
-Her jab is above average, good range and can lead into a grab.
-She has a reliable spike (dair).
-She has a way to reflect projectiles.
-She has a counter.
-Harder to combo than the average character, due to her light weight.
-Great at punishing rolls because of her dash speed.

Altogether, these various parts of her character design make a very unique character, who has a little bit of everything. She is basically the "Mario" of this game, given how balanced and versatile she is. But her hitboxes are very different than Mario's, so that's something to note.

Her cons:

-Mediocre recovery - somewhat easy to edgeguard.
-Slow tilts with lots of recovery time and mediocre range.
-Her smash attacks have a lot of lag time afterward.
-Floaty, so she dies from vertical KOs easily.
-Requires a lot of precision to play (especially the placement of her aerials - they must be spaced pristinely), due to not having many hitboxes that stay out for long. You have to time your attacks well. Therefore, she has a higher learning curve/is more skill-intensive.
-Lacks stage presence. Her projectile is useable, but will not really force your opponent to approach, because it's easy to avoid. Since she lacks easy ways of approaching, her matches tend to be drawn out. I have gone to time countless times in "For Glory".

If you want any pointers on her, I'd be happy to chat.
 
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Lavani

Indigo Destiny
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Oct 24, 2014
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Can verify looking at the data dump that reflect is unblockable. Really was not expecting that sort of property on it...

As long as I'm looking at this: dash attack is invincible 4~16f, and bair is invincible 3~11f.
 

ChivalRuse

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Wow. I knew that bair had invincible properties, but I didn't know that it was true of dash attack as well (and for a whopping 13 frames!). That could make it very useful for plowing through certain attacks and hitboxes.
 

TheRealPalutena

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Yea I've actually been abusing both of those pretty heavily. I have the Strat guide for smash 4 and they talk about her shield attacks a bit. It also claims that Dash attack is invincible AND reflects projectiles but i've never successfully reflected anything with dash attack, even with testing =\
 

ChivalRuse

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I don't know about reflecting them, but it can certainly knock away things like Peach's turnip and Link's boomerang.
 
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Eisal

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I don't think it can reflect but I'm sure I managed to completely destroy Samus' fully charged blast by dash attacking into it...
 

ChivalRuse

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I'm going to start using dash attack liberally now whenever I think my opponent will put out a move. Transcendent priority is back, baby!
 
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meleebrawler

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I'm going to start using dash attack liberally now whenever I think my opponent will put out a move. Transcendent priority is back, baby!
Transcendent means that your hitboxes don't collide
at all with other ones. Palutena's shield attacks do, they
just seem to have an infinity value when calculating priority.

She's also not the only the character with this trait.
Mr. Game and Watch's Up Smash (the diving helmet)
has similar properties.

I personally prefer to call this effect "absolute priority".
 

ChivalRuse

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I see. So does this mean that she can clank with some moves or does the move technically "trade", with only your opponent receiving damage and knockback owing to the invincibility?
 

Eisal

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I see. So does this mean that she can clank with some moves or does the move technically "trade", with only your opponent receiving damage and knockback owing to the invincibility?
I might be wrong (being a newbie and all so don't take my words for truth) but I think if two "absolute priority" moves collide, they will go off, but send the two characters sliding away from each other some, without taking damage, I think?
 

Zediwonder

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Reflect is unblockable in the sense that it will hit the opponent if you're right in front of them and go through their shield so it's about as good as a grab is since the range is about the same, make of that what you will, I use it a lot, I got my friend to bounce off reflect while using a dair next to the ledge and they killed themselves in the process A++ move
 
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kmpyj

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Hey guys. I think I really staring to notice how great of an edge game reflect can be. I noticed it earlier back in September, but didn't really expand on it at the time. I really don't know why I didn't worked with it. Reflect can push people, why on earth didn't I think about using reflect aggressively? >_< Anyway, I know it can definitely be followed up from a *** which is really good. I think I did that on Little Mac in my combo vid, but here is a match I had a while back against a little mac player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXsoXlhp80o&index=3&list=PLMTo6fQJ8WtMQJ3Xip6dBkYsgJQbaTbjI

It's at the very end. So far, reflect seems to work best when players are at their vulnerable fall, and usually any recovery method. The only characters I think this doesn't work on (or at least is harder to pull off on) are any characters with a teleport like recovery, other then that it should be fine. I also noticed that reflect can exhaust a character's amount of jumps, pressuring the player to use a recovery, only to reflect push them away from the ledge. So far, characters that I have tested the reflect edge game on that works great with are:

Mario
Pit
Shulk
ZS Samus
Little Mac
Rosalina
Link
Toon Link
Lucario
Meta Knight
Kirby
Peach
Captain Falcon

Anyone I didn't mention it's because I haven't tried it on them yet, but I can roughly estimate that it works with all characters. Some more easier than others. I also noticed with characters like ZS Samus, Mario, and Pit, if you land reflect on them while they are using their Up B, it can sometimes knock them up really high. It rarely happens though, but when it does it's hilarious.
 

Zediwonder

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I've tried this out myself just as a silly idea, it seemed like it would be a big thing for Palutena when the game was first released, Little Mac is of course the easiest, bait out that side special and laugh like the god you are as they plummet.

I'm curious if teleporting characters like Zelda and shiek will teleport through the reflect or get blocked by it like they would by the stage though doubtful it'd be something to test. I'll definitely look into reflect more as a ledge guarding technique as it does have promise if you use it at the right time. Might be reflect can be a viable option compared to super speed.
 

Palutina

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Reflect is a great move! The 5% hitbox that appears originates around her shield and can be used to knock away people being really aggressive as the hitbox pushes them away and the wall pushes them further. Also gimmicky as an anti air. The only downsides are vulnerability, (one of Palutena's traits it seems) some attacks are big enough to not be affected by either part of the move and people rolling through it.
 

Zediwonder

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Reflect is a great move! The 5% hitbox that appears originates around her shield and can be used to knock away people being really aggressive as the hitbox pushes them away and the wall pushes them further. Also gimmicky as an anti air. The only downsides are vulnerability, (one of Palutena's traits it seems) some attacks are big enough to not be affected by either part of the move and people rolling through it.
Reflect has obvious weaknesses but I think Super Speed has just as many, I think if customs are allowed Reflect will be a defensive Palutena set and Super Speed an aggressive set but it will be interesting to watch as we all evolve how we play and learn.

I'm certainly a more aggressive player so I'd prefer to be using super speed but I've been practicing with customs off to get a better handle of Palutena without all the stuff that super speed and light weight let you do just to give myself a better handle on Palutena as a character.
 

Saki-

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I've had a few instances where dash attack has reflected a projectile. Also one instance where reflect spiked Robin out of elwind during patch 1.02
 
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