X1-12
Smash Champion
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Mini Mafia
- Thread starter Ramen King
- Start date
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
You're misinterpreting. I'm not creating absolute conclusions, I'm creating conclusions and presenting them as absolute.
You know, like I said in the first place.
:v
If you create a conclusion and present them as absolute... you are creating absolute conclusions.
The point is that you're solidifying stances or points against me without proper definitive evidence. Unless you think it's okay for me to say things like:
"You are not very confident because you used this face:
"And to be frank, the subject is starting to pull away from the main point that I've been trying to determine (which you so willfully wanted me to solidify a day or two into the game).
I don't like your play. And the ad hominems and implications match exactly how you played in the previous mafia game where you scum. And unfortunately, I don't have enough experience with you to call you out on tells, but if there was a deadline in 5 minutes you'd be the one to die.
The problem is that I cannot pin any certain action against you as "scummy" in this game. I simply don't like it, but none of it are tells that you are in fact scum. Most of it has been severely anti-town aka:
- Refusing to read your PM
- Choosing to focus on only me (because you played a single game with me)
- Drawing out implications that aren't necessarily true without stable evidence
- Etc. etc.
I don't like your play. And the ad hominems and implications match exactly how you played in the previous mafia game where you scum. And unfortunately, I don't have enough experience with you to call you out on tells, but if there was a deadline in 5 minutes you'd be the one to die.
The problem is that I cannot pin any certain action against you as "scummy" in this game. I simply don't like it, but none of it are tells that you are in fact scum. Most of it has been severely anti-town aka:
- Refusing to read your PM
- Choosing to focus on only me (because you played a single game with me)
- Drawing out implications that aren't necessarily true without stable evidence
- Etc. etc.
X1-12
Smash Champion
Well actually he's suggesting that the conclusion is absolute and from there you can challenge it as such.
Omni do you think Xonar is scum?
Xonar who do you think is scum?
Omni do you think Xonar is scum?
Xonar who do you think is scum?
X1-12
Smash Champion
^Ninja'd
This sounds like you've decided he is scum already?
X1, don't ask me that question.
The whole point of this game is that it's near impossible to tell who is actually scum because you cannot create connections. I feel that he is severely anti-town, but I have no idea since I've never seen his town play (nor do I care to research).
Neither you or Xonar have any redeeming traits or qualities that I can pick up from long exposure of mafia plays. So... I'll probably just kill off whoever I think is the most anti-town.
The whole point of this game is that it's near impossible to tell who is actually scum because you cannot create connections. I feel that he is severely anti-town, but I have no idea since I've never seen his town play (nor do I care to research).
Neither you or Xonar have any redeeming traits or qualities that I can pick up from long exposure of mafia plays. So... I'll probably just kill off whoever I think is the most anti-town.
Ninja'd:
I've decided that I don't like his play as a town role. But no, I have not decided that he is scum. Although I don't like his logic nor his play this doesn't decrease nor increase my trust with you.
Do you think there is a way to establish trust in this game, X1?
I've decided that I don't like his play as a town role. But no, I have not decided that he is scum. Although I don't like his logic nor his play this doesn't decrease nor increase my trust with you.
Do you think there is a way to establish trust in this game, X1?
X1: Why did you ask me this question?
I feel like I strongly and clearly said that I haven't deemed Xonar as scum. Yet, you're saying that I've decided that he is scum? Where was the confusion?
X1-12
Smash Champion
You're incorrect. The point of this game is to be able to tell who's scum based off intent with no connections, its not meant to be a random chance and its definitely not meant to be "vote whoever is the most anti-town"
And yes, there is a way to establish trust if one of the players is stupid or easily manipulated but there's no need for trust. If I trust player x (and by extension, trust them to be town) then I believe the remaining player to be scum and the trust is meaningless.
If you're scum however then trying to get someone to trust you might be a good idea.... Where were you going with this again?
And yes, there is a way to establish trust if one of the players is stupid or easily manipulated but there's no need for trust. If I trust player x (and by extension, trust them to be town) then I believe the remaining player to be scum and the trust is meaningless.
If you're scum however then trying to get someone to trust you might be a good idea.... Where were you going with this again?
X1-12
Smash Champion
Because it sounds like you've already decided he's scum but can't find anything to use as a tell to implicate him as scum.
"The problem is that I cannot pin any certain action against you as scummy" - This is only a problem if Xonar is scum - If he's not scum then its absolutely not a problem.
I think that's your perspective of how to approach the game.You're incorrect. The point of this game is to be able to tell who's scum based off intent with no connections, its not meant to be a random chance and its definitely not meant to be "vote whoever is the most anti-town"
And yes, there is a way to establish trust if one of the players is stupid or easily manipulated but there's no need for trust. If I trust player x (and by extension, trust them to be town) then I believe the remaining player to be scum and the trust is meaningless.
If you're scum however then trying to get someone to trust you might be a good idea.... Where were you going with this again?
My perspective is find the scum. Find the town.
The problem is that even if you're right in finding who your town partner is if that person doesn't think you're town you still lose.
So, no, gaining trust is not a scum move. Finding scum is based on two townies agreeing to trust each other and shoot the scum. By agreeing to shoot one person you put your trust in the other person.
Intent cannot be defined because a player's actions will always have room for interpretation.
No, if I said I think he was scum I would have said that directly.
It's a problem because it means that everything I don't like about him is simply anti-townish. In a normal game, that'd be enough reason to kill him to remove him from the pool early game, but in this game lynching/shooting anti-town players is not reason enough.
There is no "it sounds like". I specifically said I do not have him pegged as scum and that I have him rather pegged as anti-town.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Replying one by one
Can I shoot you over this? You know I'm instable. You don't want me to go crazy, better watch your step.
is absolutely ********.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo not really? I'm PRESENTING them as absolute conclusions. They are, however, NOT absolute conclusions.
I really don't know what your issue is.
You realize that EVERYTHING YOU SAY has influence on the game? Smileys included.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14402079&postcount=615
This post is all of the ad hominem.
Then again, I ad hominem in every game as every alignment. Like I said, don't try to meta me. Go on Skype right now and ask anyone who've played with me about my meta, they'll tell you that it won't help.
Alright.
Refusing to read the PM is anti-town I guess.
Choosing to only focus on you is a tactical decision, to view it as anti-town is... short sighted. The explanation makes sense.
Andddd I've elaborated on the "absolute" stuff.
Aaaaand why don't you elaborate on [etc etc]? Sounds like a plan.
Besides, I haven't seen you look into X1 too much. Aren't you being a hypocrite? Not that that's an argument for incrimination, more of a fun fact.
Omni, I've learned that our styles clash majorly. It's not anti-town things you're seeing, you're seeing things that disagree with your mafia philosophy.
Right, because that influenced the game in any way.
Can I shoot you over this? You know I'm instable. You don't want me to go crazy, better watch your step.
This...
is absolutely ********.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo not really? I'm PRESENTING them as absolute conclusions. They are, however, NOT absolute conclusions.
I really don't know what your issue is.
You are, once again, being really dumb.The point is that you're solidifying stances or points against me without proper definitive evidence. Unless you think it's okay for me to say things like:
"You are not very confident because you used this face:
You realize that EVERYTHING YOU SAY has influence on the game? Smileys included.
How many ad hominems have there been? One or two at the start of the game. Gg. Lemme look it up for you:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14402079&postcount=615
This post is all of the ad hominem.
Then again, I ad hominem in every game as every alignment. Like I said, don't try to meta me. Go on Skype right now and ask anyone who've played with me about my meta, they'll tell you that it won't help.
:v
Alright.
Refusing to read the PM is anti-town I guess.
Choosing to only focus on you is a tactical decision, to view it as anti-town is... short sighted. The explanation makes sense.
Andddd I've elaborated on the "absolute" stuff.
Aaaaand why don't you elaborate on [etc etc]? Sounds like a plan.
Besides, I haven't seen you look into X1 too much. Aren't you being a hypocrite? Not that that's an argument for incrimination, more of a fun fact.
The conclusion is PRESENTED as absolute to draw out a different form of reaction. How many times do I have to repeat it?
Right now I'm going to put it on a 60/40 on Omni. It's just that I can draw some relations to the game we played together, and because of that I know is that Omni is just really good at doing inherently anti-town/scummy things out of habit, which makes him hard to properly read.
Caving in? If you were in my 13man and I had a gun, I would've shot you right here right now for this post. Shooting based on anti-town is the dumbest thing.
What's wrong with my logic? Less talk, more walk.
Omni, I've learned that our styles clash majorly. It's not anti-town things you're seeing, you're seeing things that disagree with your mafia philosophy.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
If you shoot based on anti-town you ADMIT to not looking for scum. Think about that one.
I've already concluded before this game that you can't properly oust scum in a game like this, Xonar. And I've already said why I think so.
And I don't think our styles clash. I clashed with you in the last mafia game because I thought you were scummy; not because of our styles. I honestly don't like how you approach most mafia games, but I've already said in the above that it isn't reason enough to kill you.
Putting the two of us in a game was great though. The game starts and we're already ready to kill each other. And ditto on the 13-man BIM move; you'd be my first go to guy.
And I don't think our styles clash. I clashed with you in the last mafia game because I thought you were scummy; not because of our styles. I honestly don't like how you approach most mafia games, but I've already said in the above that it isn't reason enough to kill you.
Putting the two of us in a game was great though. The game starts and we're already ready to kill each other. And ditto on the 13-man BIM move; you'd be my first go to guy.
X1-12
Smash Champion
Its not a precise science, but it can be defined, sure. If a player does something and I can see no reason a town player would do that, its points against him, if he fails to explain legitimately why he did it its more points against him. Eventually you can build up a picture of who is and isn't likely to be scum and base your vote off of that.
well, no you didn't. You said this:
Saying you don't have him pegged as scum and saying you have nothing to peg him as scum off of are not the same thing.Omni said:
You have a problem that you can't pin something against him as scummy - Why is this a problem? It can only be if you already have come to the conclusion that Xonar is scum because you are either a.) tunnelling or b.) scum
X1-12
Smash Champion
Whats the point in even playing then, lol?
X1-12
Smash Champion
No seriously If you already decided you can't oust scum properly, why are you playing? Why were you excited to play before the game?
I've done this 100 times. It's not consistent. A person can have logical responses to their actions; this does not make them town. A person can have ******** responses to actions; this does not make them scum. It's 100% null.
It is. My intent is to look for scum, and the point of saying that I have nothing to peg him for it means that in conclusion I do not find him scum. You're suggesting that it is my intention that I have found him as scum and I'm looking for something to peg him with it. When in reality I have things that I want to peg him for as scum, but they are not conclusive enough to do so.
Reverse your order.
It's a problem because townies should not exhibit massive amounts of anti-town actions. In my "quest" to search for my partner and the scum it's not a good look when I see a person doing just that.
The problem is that for most people I could use those anti-town actions against them. But with Xonar it's a null because I've only played in one game with him and the actions are almost exactly similar. If I had a much more extensive amount of play with him it would be much more closer than a tell than a null, but because I don't, those traits that I find anti-town don't bring me closer to condemning him as scum.
I've done this 100 times. It's not consistent. A person can have logical responses to their actions; this does not make them town. A person can have ******** responses to actions; this does not make them scum. It's 100% null.
It is. My intent is to look for scum, and the point of saying that I have nothing to peg him for it means that in conclusion I do not find him scum. You're suggesting that it is my intention that I have found him as scum and I'm looking for something to peg him with it. When in reality I have things that I want to peg him for as scum, but they are not conclusive enough to do so.
Reverse your order.
It's a problem because townies should not exhibit massive amounts of anti-town actions. In my "quest" to search for my partner and the scum it's not a good look when I see a person doing just that.
The problem is that for most people I could use those anti-town actions against them. But with Xonar it's a null because I've only played in one game with him and the actions are almost exactly similar. If I had a much more extensive amount of play with him it would be much more closer than a tell than a null, but because I don't, those traits that I find anti-town don't bring me closer to condemning him as scum.
I've done this 100 times. It's not consistent. A person can have logical responses to their actions; this does not make them town. A person can have ******** responses to actions; this does not make them scum. It's 100% null.
It is. My intent is to look for scum, and the point of saying that I have nothing to peg him for it means that in conclusion I do not find him scum. You're suggesting that it is my intention that I have found him as scum and I'm looking for something to peg him with it. When in reality I have things that I want to peg him for as scum, but they are not conclusive enough to do so.
Reverse your order.
It's a problem because townies should not exhibit massive amounts of anti-town actions. In my "quest" to search for my partner and the scum it's not a good look when I see a person doing just that.
The problem is that for most people I could use those anti-town actions against them. But with Xonar it's a null because I've only played in one game with him and the actions are almost exactly similar. If I had a much more extensive amount of play with him it would be much more closer than a tell than a null, but because I don't, those traits that I find anti-town don't bring me closer to condemning him as scum.
I've done this 100 times. It's not consistent. A person can have logical responses to their actions; this does not make them town. A person can have ******** responses to actions; this does not make them scum. It's 100% null.
It is. My intent is to look for scum, and the point of saying that I have nothing to peg him for it means that in conclusion I do not find him scum. You're suggesting that it is my intention that I have found him as scum and I'm looking for something to peg him with it. When in reality I have things that I want to peg him for as scum, but they are not conclusive enough to do so.
Reverse your order.
It's a problem because townies should not exhibit massive amounts of anti-town actions. In my "quest" to search for my partner and the scum it's not a good look when I see a person doing just that.
The problem is that for most people I could use those anti-town actions against them. But with Xonar it's a null because I've only played in one game with him and the actions are almost exactly similar. If I had a much more extensive amount of play with him it would be much more closer than a tell than a null, but because I don't, those traits that I find anti-town don't bring me closer to condemning him as scum.
I've done this 100 times. It's not consistent. A person can have logical responses to their actions; this does not make them town. A person can have ******** responses to actions; this does not make them scum. It's 100% null.
It is. My intent is to look for scum, and the point of saying that I have nothing to peg him for it means that in conclusion I do not find him scum. You're suggesting that it is my intention that I have found him as scum and I'm looking for something to peg him with it. When in reality I have things that I want to peg him for as scum, but they are not conclusive enough to do so.
Reverse your order.
It's a problem because townies should not exhibit massive amounts of anti-town actions. In my "quest" to search for my partner and the scum it's not a good look when I see a person doing just that.
The problem is that for most people I could use those anti-town actions against them. But with Xonar it's a null because I've only played in one game with him and the actions are almost exactly similar. If I had a much more extensive amount of play with him it would be much more closer than a tell than a null, but because I don't, those traits that I find anti-town don't bring me closer to condemning him as scum.
To see if I can be proven wrong.
Because Axel invited me. And I love everything that encompasses Axel.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Uh, what the hell?
Yeah I was about ready to shoot any way. Wanna talk with X1 a last time though.
Yeah I was about ready to shoot any way. Wanna talk with X1 a last time though.
X1-12
Smash Champion
lol?
10char
10char
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Are you cool with the Omni route?
X1-12
Smash Champion
Xonar what do you wanna talk to me about? I'm confirmed not scum at this point.
The only thing left to decide is if you are scum yourself or not
The only thing left to decide is if you are scum yourself or not
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Hey look.
The command is daykill, not shoot.
:v
The command is daykill, not shoot.
:v
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Not sure if Omni is mistaken or pulling a gambit...
X1, out of curiosity, by what logic are you confirmed town and am I not?
Just for clarification, after I saw the shot I checked my role PM. Most logical thing to do, right? Turns out I'm town.
X1, out of curiosity, by what logic are you confirmed town and am I not?
Just for clarification, after I saw the shot I checked my role PM. Most logical thing to do, right? Turns out I'm town.
X1-12
Smash Champion
I hadn't shot Omni and thus wasn't scum. You could still have been scum and not known it
X1-12
Smash Champion
@Mod: Request Votecount
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Fair enough.
I'll send J my PM.
I'll send J my PM.
If you realized this and you were town I'd hope you were smart enough not to mention it and see how it plays.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Because I'm pretty sure X1 knew it.
What made you "pretty sure" that he knew? From how he was responding he was acting as if him not shooting me was confirmation that he isn't scum.
Are you suggesting how he was responding above was a facade?
Are you suggesting how he was responding above was a facade?