Mindset of pro-players versus Peach

[LanceStern]

So I was reading an excerpt from Havok's blog - a pro MK/Marth/Snake user - Quick Aside: The blog is really cool and I would encourage more smashers to blog about their matches, mindset, preparation and strategy going it. It's fascinating.

So I look at his blog and lo & behold his first round match was versus a Peach! I decided to read more in depth to see what he thinks about when fighting Peach:

Decided that I was going Meta Knight my first round, my opponent chooses to play Peach. I know the match up because of Bone. You know, he kinda invented Bone walking. I edgeguard every single recovery option he has, side-B? Shuttle loop. Up-B? Nair. Float? Wait or Down Air. Down Smash later on takes stocks pretty easily

This one sentence about how he edgeguards every single recovery option, caught my eye and made me think... this is how most Metaknights view the matchup. Knock us off stage and hammer away...

Is there ANYTHING new to be done or tips to get back without taking a beatdown? Is that our only recovery option?

 

[Xyless]

Recover high, mostly.

 

[Two-Ell]

The topic of this blog(at least the questions you ask in the OP) fits under so many different existing threads Air might end up closing this later, Lance. Anyway the blog was an interesting read I didn't know he had a personal one. I'll prolly bookmark it. Personally I thought it was funny(a bit sad but mostly funny lol) to read that part of the blog.

As far as the topic of this thread goes. What you say I would imagine any competent MK around his level to look at the MU like that. Most of Peach's different recovery options are slow as hell and he has plenty of fast, long reaching, high priority moves to make recovery agony sometimes. You need to be clever as well as mix up recovery strategies for each return attempt.

To your questions on whether anything new being discovered. I hate sounding negative, but honestly all of Peach's recovery tools and options should already be known by everyone right now. Like I say earlier it's up to us to properly mix them up for the specific situations we get into in sets. Float, SideB, UpB, NeutralB, somewhat crummy air dodge, and maybe a turnip in hand is what we have. I don't think there's any recovery strategies/combinations that isn't already generally known among us or previously examined. D:

Apologies if I sound so discouraging I don't like coming off that way. It's how I happened to feel thinking about this. I can always be pretty wrong with what I said.

 

[z00ted]

this should be discussed in the Metaknight matchup thread.

read what 2link said.

 

[Evil-Guy]

this should be discussed in the Metaknight matchup thread.

read what 2link said.

Why do MU threads go missing after no one posts?

 

[z00ted]

the thread monster eats em.

 

[¿Qué?]

What I find this to be some what worthy of it's own thread is the fact that the mind set they have is so simple. It goes to show that people seriously take Peach lightly. I'm starting to think Peach players get a little too intimidated by other players, whilst the others have sheer confidence. It can cost us a match.

 

[Two-Ell]

Ehh I don't see many people here being intimidated by other players. I live in where the most amount of PR'd players are in this state as well as the large talent pool of randoms and unrankeds that is South FL(The PR shifts around dramatically due to how much skill, consistency, and potential unrankeds suddenly show between updates). Kyon and I have played and seen a good many of them and I believe we go into our matches pretty confidently. I hardly imagine Kyle, Ill, KB, PK, Nicole and others to be intimidated either. Being surrounded by a myriad of pros and high tiers every tourney.

 

[Meru.]

I disagree with closing this thread, I find this a great thread actually.

Surely we're talking about MK now, but I found it pretty good to know what people think of Peach and what they find annoying/easy to avoid.

For example, not a long time ago I found a Peach in a Peach ditto who would quickly float back and then do an auto-cancelled Fair. It was extremely basic, yet with a low risk and high reward. I thought how extremely annoying it was and started asking myself why I didnt do that. Needless to say, I started using that.

tl;dr It's good to know what people think about Peach since you can use that information in your advantage.

 

[Eddie G]

I never get intimidated by any player.

 

[z00ted]

I never get intimidated by any player.

 

[¿Qué?]

Well for now, I am. I have hardly any experience and I always expect to get ***** my first match. I completely destroy in friendlies but that's not enough.

That's why I'm really hoping I can get to Dallas for MLG and then go to WHOBO for the experience I'm lacking.

 

[Two-Ell]

Don't worry PG you get over that when you start regularly attending tournies. Also isn t getting kinda late to be still be unsure on whether you'll be attending Dallas? Did you buy a pass and whatnot?

 

[z00ted]

if you're attending Dallas, PG buy a pass now.

they are selling like hotcakes.

 

[¿Qué?]

Plans were canceled among friends, so now I'm not sure if I'm going. That's why I'm iffy on buying it still.

 

[z00ted]

this ... ALWAYS happens

 

[LanceStern]

PG you actually did good last tourney. 9th right?

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

PG buy it anyways because if you can go and lack a pass you won't be able to.
Also if you buy it will be more likley to cap which will ensure more MLGs to come and possibly another one to come to texas...

 

[Nicole]

getting on topic, i must disagree with havok in the fact that it's easy to edgeguard peach. mk's options are clear and simple, but the timing must be pretty precise. peach's umbrella has mad priority and it's very quick and has large hitboxes.

nair is not the thing that i would most fear off the ledge against peach's upb anyway, it's shuttle loop, facing away from the stage. that ***** peach the most, and it's still avoidable to some degree. i really need to get a video recorded of me playing an mk that shows you guys the ways that he can and can't gimp you, b/c the guy i practice with knows exactly what to do when i'm recovering, and i can still get back a fair amount of the time because its hard for mk to time his things if you aren't predictable. if you upb at the same spot at the same angle everytime, you're gonna get wrecked. if you up b early ocassionally, and open & close your umbrella, you can usually avoid getting killed. you take alot of damage, but its better than dying.

its not like you are helpless either, you still have all your aerials and (if you have float) the mobility to outspace his fair/nair. you can fair him sometimes when he comes after you if you start it early enough and you're pretty sure he's not going to shuttle loop.

so yeah, if he's perfect, he shuts peach down, but he's not going to be.

 

[Dark.Pch]

His Blog on that means nothing to me at all and pretty stupid to me. Typical play he is abusing. Idk who this Peach was But hovak just had the typicl mentality of Peach vs meta and that Peach plaer just gave it to him. Even on my worst days, no meta knight have ever gotten easy crappy stocks on me like that.

These high tier players sometimes bore me and are so lame when they say and think stuff like this. People wanna think Peach is light work. Really meta knight players. I let them cause I have to work less to win. I just mind **** them for thinking typical of the character I use. Still feels and sound like 2008. Still hearing garbage like this. Could be due to nbo peach players placing high alot in big tournies. Or Peach players losing to stupid ****. So these top high tier players just creates this basic mindset on how to beat Peach. And think it will simply work. That BS does not work on a smart person. Cause they just get the other end of the stick.

One of the reasons I say the smash community is stupid sometimes. I dealt with players in my priome that though just like hovak. And they end up having just a hard time beating me or I win against thier meta. "what, a Peach? I got this ****, I got it all figured out. I know what I will do when I get them off stage., And I know I will abuse that nado with some up-B on the side. GG Peach, lolololol". Yea aight. These players then get away with this crap against people who are not that good, know how to do that match up well or just get annoyed when fighting meta. Then think it is legit. Thats why I enjoyed beating up metas like cheese and this gay ranked one I had to fight in tourny on saturday. But really don't think and wanna play basic and typical. With the mindset of when brawl first came out and the ga gameplay was bring unleashed.

I don't care how good a meta knight is. No peach should get ***** buy a player with a mindset such as this one. But that is the smash community for you. Nothing you can do about it except give them a rude awakening for thier simple minded thinking.

 

[**Havok**]

@darky,

For the sake of being concise on my blog, I don't have to sit there and explain everything I know about Peach. You beat players with my "mentality"? I don't doubt you do, but you don't show up to any of the tournaments I've been to yet. Show me when we meet. Have a nice day Darky

 

[Eddie G]

ZING!

 

[Dark.Pch]

@darky,

For the sake of being concise on my blog, I don't have to sit there and explain everything I know about Peach. You beat players with my "mentality"? I don't doubt you do, but you don't show up to any of the tournaments I've been to yet. Show me when we meet. Have a nice day Darky

You can obviously think what you want and say do, just like you did in your blog. And I would obviously speak my mind on the matter. Or anything in similar relation. Yet NO ONE has to agree with anything I say. And I am sure lots don't anyway. I saw this thread and commented on what was said in it. And I still stand by with every word I said in it. Not even top/big name players are gonna change my mind. Have to need to be scared of them or punk out. regularless of what character they use. I'll leave it at that.

Peace.

 

[**Havok**]

You can obviously think what you want and say do, just like you did in your blog. And I would obviously speak my mind on the matter. Or anything in similar relation. Yet NO ONE has to agree with anything I say. And I am sure lots don't anyway. I saw this thread and commented on what was said in it. And I still stand by with every word I said in it. Not even top/big name players are gonna change my mind. Have to need to be scared of them or punk out. regularless of what character they use. I'll leave it at that.

Peace.

Ohhhh so feisty. I like that in Peach mains.

See ya around.

SHAMELESS PLUG!!!!!!!!

 

[Eddie G]

Yay for stereotypes.

 

[z00ted]

nvm.. ignore this LOL

 

[¿Qué?]

PG you actually did good last tourney. 9th right?

Nooo haha.

I got 25th out of 32.

My friend, Castro, which I had met there for the first time placed 9th with his Peach.

 

[Airgemini]

This isn't the SD thread.
Back on topic or it's close time. If you don't have something to say about the topic then simply don't reply. Dur.

 

[Deathfox30]

Can anyone do that float cancel thing that makes you fall faster consistently? I think that helps sometimes and you don't lose your float. GIMR or Hot Garbage posted a video about it forever ago.

 

[deepseadiva]

Can anyone do that float cancel thing that makes you fall faster consistently? I think that helps sometimes and you don't lose your float. GIMR or Hot Garbage posted a video about it forever ago.

I didn't know it did either of those things.

I thought you fell at the normal fast fall speed and you did lose your float.

 

[LanceStern]

I thought you fell faster, it might not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTA9QnGXBGc&feature=related

I actually brought it up a couple months ago as a way to get back on the floor versus metaknight, it's just really hard

 

[Deathfox30]

Oops, my mistake. It does preserve your float (I think) but the fall speed is still the same, it just allows you to FF earlier than you would normally be able to. I looked for the video earlier but couldn't find it. The only way it would be useful for recovery purposes is to do it out of a double jump before you'd normally be able to FF. But since Peach's double jump is so short it's not even worth learning it.

 

[LanceStern]

Oops, my mistake. It does preserve your float (I think) but the fall speed is still the same, it just allows you to FF earlier than you would normally be able to. I looked for the video earlier but couldn't find it. The only way it would be useful for recovery purposes is to do it out of a double jump before you'd normally be able to FF. But since Peach's double jump is so short it's not even worth learning it.

I was really thinking of learning it for that purpose.

Metaknight usually swats us in the air and we can't really "fast-fall" back. If we could perfect this quick fall it would work out.