Midwest Power Rankings - question

[KishPrime]

I can't decide whether to do an open poll or not, but I'll post one anyway. I might not go straight off these results though.

I want to open this up to the Midwest for debate. I personally am trying to cut back on my commitments to smashboards, so I will be dropping the Power Rankings. AZ and I talked it over and basically came up with three options from this point.

1. Pass the power rankings over to someone else who is responsible and is willing to do the work necessary to make it work well.

2. Scrap the Power Rankings entirely and use the Midwest Circuit points standings as our "Power Rankings," to be stickied.

3. Forget power rankings altogether, have no posted rankings for the Midwest on this site.

Debate as you will, vote as you will. If you vote, please post to explain why. Thanks. I left the vote results as "public," just so you are warned.

 

[Dopey]

am i #1 still? =p

 

[Echo]

I voted #2, for scrapping the power rankings and using circuit results.

I think the Power Rankings are inconsistant and inaccurate. Everyone is placing differently every tourney, and everyone is losing to different, or even the same people. I'm not exactly sure why, but it seems like most of the top players are just all on the same level and its not possible to just distiguish 1 player from another, because they all have their own pros/cons, and can beat certain people while losing to others, it makes it seem like luck of the bracket is going to determine who is the supposed best in the midwest.

With the Midwest Circuit, it makes it that series to compete in, give it your all, and try to come out on top, and if people want to use that as who is currently the best, they could, though I dont think they should because some people might not make every event.

I know we plan on bringin a crew from NE to every circuit event, seeing as theres no MLG or anything now, it really gives us somethin fun to compete in. And another thing about it being the circuit points, you dont have to be top 15 to be on it, just get some points and you see where you're at

 

[mathos]

Results show the best reality.

Opinions can be biased and are often inaccurate, troublesome, and stressful for everyone. No hostility means happy people :-D

 

[Overswarm]

I think it should be passed off to someone else, but at the same time use Tournament results as the primary reason.

You can't ever really use tournament results as a single source (imagine if Dope goes to the Navy and then comes back to only play one tournament, it'd be a little off), but at the same time, Mathos is completely right about opinions.

I know there are tons of people willing to work on the power rankings. A small group of pepole might be better than a single person anyway.

 

[Dopey]

i think the navy trip has been put on delay overswarm, i jus got a job as waiter ^^ and thats good $$$

all i kno is we need to hold a vote or an election or something within the next month or 2 about the MW council. 3 ppl isnt enough to make decisions for soo many ppl involved in this game in our region simple as that.

 

[Overswarm]

i think the navy trip has been put on delay overswarm, i jus got a job as waiter ^^ and thats good $$$

all i kno is we need to hold a vote or an election or something within the next month or 2 about the MW council. 3 ppl isnt enough to make decisions for soo many ppl involved in this game in our region simple as that.

Who all would even be interested that has time to do this stuff? I would assume most would, and I know I would be interested in being on the council.

Would it be a free-for-all or a nomination style thing?

Congrats on not being in the Navy. I don't know how you switch from going to the Navy to being a Waiter, but more power to ya.

 

[KishSquared]

I voted to scrap them alltogether. The whole thing is controversial, so why bother making something official? It's also clear that very few people are willing to put forth the effort to provide a ranking list, so I don't think the panel solution will work.

The Circuit rankings will always be available for public viewing, whether they're the "official" rankings or not. We don't need to make them official or anything.

Dope: Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but the Circuit idea was invented by Mathos, and it's his to run. You can't vote to make him add more members... That said, we've already added one member, and we're looking for a 5th!

 

[Dopey]

but squared, does mathos run the midwest as well? =) i jus think more ppl should be in on making the decisions, thats all.

yea overswarm, i was a waiter for 2 years before, and i wuv it so im gonna try it out again. just hope my feet can take it after all these years lol.

 

[KishPrime]

You added someone? <_<

EDIT: Also, if you vote, please post and say why. I'm more concerned with the discussion than the actual vote...

 

[Undefined]

i voted for panel b/c people like eddie know who is better than who more accurately than circuit points and more accurately than a bunch of people submitting their lists. and who cares if the list is subjective rather than objective as long as it is more accurate, even though eddie would be pretty nonbiased.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

I voted for number 1.

I think it should be passed off to someone else, though it makes me sad to know you won't be as involved, Prime. ;_;

Circuit points should most definitely be taken into account when deciding, but I really don't think that should be the 'end-all-be-all' decision. Sure, attendance is encouraged, but to have the top whatever decided only by that when people that could do well(but have other more pressing matters, like family, school, and work) can't go and are left out because of it.

Tournament placing, overall records, and circuit points should be things to discuss for the panel, IMHO. So mostly 1, with a hint of 2.

 

[DrewB008]

i voted for panel, mainly because one of the most emphasized things about the last rankings were that it was not necessarily what you placed, but rather who you beat/lost to. Points don't show that, and it is an important aspect of ranking. Circuit points do create separation between tiers of players fairly accurately, so long as they consistently come, but order within those tiers arent as accurate as the order an analysis of matchups would create.

One thing I think should be done this time that wasn't done last time is have a set panel, instead of completely volunteer. There are differences between the first list and the second list that could not have been made due to performance in the second voting period, so I assume they must have been due to the inactivity of previous panel members. I don't think a ranking list should be posted without the input of all members of the panel.

 

[Hoefler]

I voted to scrap. Who cares? Just play.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I think as the midwest circuit matures the rankings from them will only become more accurate. So, with that in mind, I think season two would be a good time to transition into just using the circuit rankings.

For everyone who votes to pass on the responsability to someone else, here is what you need to keep in mind: Tallying votes, especially when positions can go as high as 10-15, takes a LONG time and is very tedious (unless you've got a sweet computer program/are a wizard with excel), either way simply transferring all the data sent in by email in differant formats and putting it into excel is a hassle in itself. Anyways, since things are looking toward the transfer idea, people need to step up to shoulder the tallying load.

 

[KishPrime]

I was a wizard in excel, and will gladly give my files to whoever is going to take it over.

I personally would like to transition into straight tournament rankings instead of arbitrary stuff. The Midwest Circuit points system is such that you can make up for absences very fast with a first or second place, so anyone that truly deserves to be that high will probably make it close to there, unless you outright miss over half the events. It also has the side benefit of tracking only "active" smashers.

 

[Undefined]

activity level should not determine rank on power rankings.

 

[Overswarm]

activity level should not determine rank on power rankings.

Why not? How can you rank someone that doesn't play?

 

[mathos]

Well there's a difference between missing an event and not playing smash. . . . . .

 

[Overswarm]

Well there's a difference between missing an event and not playing smash. . . . . .

But we can't really accurately judge their skill level if they don't go to events. If they went to other events and did well I could see it happening, but if they just kind of disappeared for a while it wouldn't make sense to just leave them up there because we think they'll still be as good.

 

[AOB]

But tournament performance is the only way your skill can be objectively gauged. If you don't go to tourneys...?

Rank is not determined by activity level as Rick would have us believe. That's absurd. You can attend every tournament and get 25th at each one and end up with some 5 points at the end of the season.
You have to perform well to get points!

 

[AlphaZealot]

Not to mention in any other power rankings activity does play a role. For example, when D Wade suffered a shoulder injury his team fell in most sports sites power rankings. When the Wizards lost Caron Butler to a broken hand the team also fell in rankings. The ability was still there, the injuries will heal in time, but for all intents and purposes it would be pointless to include them in power rankings since they would be abscent from games (IE not a factor). So, if a Midwest player never actually goes to tournaments but is amazing (say like Neo on the east coast) why should he be included? It's not an Activeity = Reward system. It's an Activity = Proof/Legitimacy system.

As this community continues to grow and continues to travel more and more (because we are getting older and older) the idea that you can be good and still not go to tournaments is becoming a less and less compelling statement. I'm not saying that if Dope decides never to go to a tournament he isn't good anymore. I'm saying if he doesn't go to a tournament why bother to rank him?

 

[Undefined]

wow. im reading these responses and i think "do people actually like think b4 typing? or do they shove the keyboard in their *** and hope something smart comes out".

1. when a playe ron a team suffers an injury, it affects his teams performance. when a smasher cant make a few tourneys, he doesnt magically get worse at the game.

2. examples of inaccurate ranking dou to circuit points:

vidjo
b-ryan
etc.

and i never said "IF THEY NEVR GO 2 TOURNEYZ". also, circuit events are not the only tournaments on teh face of the planet, and it is ****ing easy as hell to know how good someone is w/o them going to circuit events, as long as they go to SOME tourneys.

 

[Overswarm]

wow. im reading these responses and i think "do people actually like think b4 typing? or do they shove the keyboard in their *** and hope something smart comes out".

1. when a playe ron a team suffers an injury, it affects his teams performance. when a smasher cant make a few tourneys, he doesnt magically get worse at the game.

2. examples of inaccurate ranking dou to circuit points:

vidjo
b-ryan
etc.

and i never said "IF THEY NEVR GO 2 TOURNEYZ". also, circuit events are not the only tournaments on teh face of the planet, and it is ****ing easy as hell to know how good someone is w/o them going to circuit events, as long as they go to SOME tourneys.

You're a very angry person.



I personally believe that there should be a small group of people that determine the rankings, but that circuit points should be a primary way of judging where people should be for players like vidjo and b-ryan (I find it humorours that you list two and then say etc., btw). However, you can't just say "this guy was good once, he's gotta still be good now". You don't know if he's still good. You are guessing. You can probably guess with some accuracy at first, but if Vidjo went to zero events and then showed up in the finals, would you be able to accurately place him? Would anyone?

 

[Undefined]

yes. /10char

 

[AOB]

or do they shove the keyboard in their *** and hope something smart comes out".

 

[AS Money]

"do people actually like think b4 typing? or do they shove the keyboard in their *** and hope something smart comes out".

do you? <stupid 10 character thing lol>

 

[mathos]

and it is ****ing easy as hell to know how good someone is w/o them going to circuit events, as long as they go to SOME tourneys.

Bombsoldier is sooo good. . . . . . . .

 

[Undefined]

Bombsoldier is sooo good. . . . . . . .

lol, so like, you are trying to compare someone who has came to the us once, with us ranking down midwest people because they miss 1-2 circuit events.

wow mathos you are SOOO smart.

do you? <stupid 10 character thing lol>

hey, nice 3rd grade comeback?

 

[KishPrime]

Why the heck do you keep using B-Ryan as an example when he only missed ONE tournament?

I missed one tournament, so you obviously think sixth is not high enough for me, but I say you flatter me too much.

 

[mathos]

In no way did I degrade you good sir, there is no need for the personal attack.

I was simply stating that you can't tell how good someone is without playing against them. The circuit events which bring in the most amount of people would be a good example as you get the opportunity to play more people as compared to the majority of local tournaments.

 

[Undefined]

i never said u couldnt use how people did against people. thats what you are SUPPOSED to use. but using circuit points is the problem.

 

[Echo]

I was simply stating that you can't tell how good someone is without playing against them. The circuit events which bring in the most amount of people would be a good example as you get the opportunity to play more people as compared to the majority of local tournaments.

He's got the best point in this thread so far.

edit - actually AZ has some really great points, too... you're both too intellectual

 

[KishPrime]

i never said u couldnt use how people did against people. thats what you are SUPPOSED to use. but using circuit points is the problem.

You're right, I should be higher than sixth. You've finally convinced me.

I'm spamming my own thread... >_>

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

lol, so like, you are trying to compare someone who has came to the us once, with us ranking down midwest people because they miss 1-2 circuit events.

wow mathos you are SOOO smart.



hey, nice 3rd grade comeback?

"that boy is ********"

this quote goes well with rick right now

 

[KishPrime]

I'm not sure this thread is going to go anywhere new anytime soon. I'm going to give discussion a couple more days, and I still need some names to step forward and offer their help if 1 is a viable option.

 

[Overswarm]

what exactly would it entail / what would you suggest the person who takes it over does to get stuff done?

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

i will def. help out ! sign me up!

 

[soap]

lol, so like, you are trying to compare someone who has came to the us once, with us ranking down midwest people because they miss 1-2 circuit events.

wow mathos you are SOOO smart.



hey, nice 3rd grade comeback?

i dont think bombsoldier has ever been to the Us, isnt that what is trying to be done this summer. Also i think he will do alot better at OC3 than alot of skeptics are saying. while its not fair to assume he would do well based on JGT vids, its also not fair to assume that he would not perform well. But, yea as that example showed you cannot rank someone if they dont compete against the best regularly.

 

[Drephen]

lol, so like, you are trying to compare someone who has came to the us once, with us ranking down midwest people because they miss 1-2 circuit events.

wow mathos you are SOOO smart.

bombsolider never came to the u.s.

wow rick you are SOOO smart.