Midwest DOTA Thread

[Cra$hman]

i could probably wrangle up 5 people, but we may/may not be up to your skill level

techinically i'm in dmac's crew
i think
i'm not sure i'm in a lot of crews

 

[KishSquared]

Won't Rick get jealous?

Tim, meh, I'd reluctantly take you. Especially if you paid me :D

Actually, it'd be a riot to do Ship and Friends (Mathos). You guys wanna try to play a game Saturday afternoon? 2pm EST?

 

[mathos]

I can't Saturday, we have Season's Beatings here in Columbus. But I could do Saturday Morning at like 9, or sometime Sunday.

 

[KishSquared]

Sunday afternoon might work. I can also get someone else for Saturday if needed, though a lack of Mathos is a lack of funthos.

 

[Cups]

I would think I would be in Dmac's crew. My name is Ben_Murphy on dota if you guys want to play. I used to play a lot, but I got back in to it recently so that's good. I wouldn't consider myself good, but I'm not bad. I'd say I usually break even kill/death wise.

Ben_Murphy is from Mystery Science Theatre 3000 in case you were wondering.

 

[KishPrime]

I never break even.

 

[KishSquared]

I've barely touched 6.49, so I'm at a major disadvantage right now. I've been studying for a certification, which is seriously cutting into my dota time. Stupid exams... when you're done with college, you should be done with exams!

Let's aim for something Sunday afternoon. Tim, Dmac, can you guys make that? Mathos too? I can check with Joshu and Iggy, unless they actually read this thread.

 

[Ethan.]

js, we gotta get a team together.

 

[Miharu]

With the new patch a lot of the hotness i've seen revolves around stacking damage amplification. i.e. chen or dirge with orchid's malevolence. people just get mowed down like grass.

Orchid Malevolence is a bit of a redundant item; the stats that it give are somewhat similar to Guinsoo's, and in most situations, 3 second hex > 4.x second amp, since use of Orchid would pretty much be limited to the spellcaster of the other team (assuming team battle situations), and by the time you do get Soul Burn off, it may be a bit pointless already. Also, if you're stacking it with another amp (ie Slardar/Chen), the odds are you would have killed them with that amp along, and the 15% wouldn't have done much.

However, Shiva's Guard looks to be the best item of the 3, as it gives a slowing aura, an activated AoE slow, standard +30 INT, and the bonus armor is very beneficial to most int heroes, who are usually pretty squishy in terms of armor (soul booster/bracers are an easy source of HP; but Mek is also a nice alternative).

Nice to see that smashers play DotA too :D

 

[KishSquared]

Hey, you got a Cali team? Let's do some MW/WC Dota Battles if you can round someone up!

 

[Cra$hman]

i don't know i don't like shivas guard very much. theres very few int heroes that have the hp to be able to actually benefit from stacking that much armor. the only hero i think shiva is a core on so far is undying, everyone else its seems like you can always do better.

 

[Miharu]

Hey, you got a Cali team? Let's do some MW/WC Dota Battles if you can round someone up!

That should be doable; I'll see who I can get and post back here.

Hmm, I guess Shiva's would probably be gotten as a secondary item, maybe after Soul booster or another hp item (bracers/nulls maybe)?

 

[James Sparrow]

Shiva is more of an anti dps'er item. for example say other team has clinkz and razor on their team, you get shiva and then they attack 15% slower if you're around. Also the 40% slow from the activatable ability also helps against them.

 

[Cra$hman]

its 25% slower but its not as good as it sounds. ias works additively always. so they're probably already gonna have like +200 ias from agility, skills, and items. -25% is gonna drop them down to +175ias which isn't gonna affect things very much. i would only get it if you're a hero who can actually use everything it gives.

 

[Joshu]

what a stupid game

 

[Cra$hman]

someone feels left out

 

[KishSquared]

Joshu plays, he just doesn't admit it.

 

[Ethan.]

its 25% slower but its not as good as it sounds. ias works additively always. so they're probably already gonna have like +200 ias from agility, skills, and items. -25% is gonna drop them down to +175ias which isn't gonna affect things very much. i would only get it if you're a hero who can actually use everything it gives.

actually 25% of 200 is 50, sorry to burst your bubble.

but everything else is a good argument, except that the 15 armor boost your EHP by alot, letting you take less damage from said clinkz or razor, while lowering their attack speed. So it pretty much gives you more time to get your spells off and/or bait a greedy player into mindgames. My favorite hero to get shiva's on is leshrac cause first off, he has ****ty hp(armor = more EHP vs melee attacks). And second the active ability helps to land stuns or catch up to opponents running away.
Overall its a decent item for int heroes that have ****ty str gain, and when the other team has alot of melee heroes.

 

[KishPrime]

Hey guys, I've heard that if you right-click on someone, you attack them.

Also, I'm probably going to move this over to the Light House soon (or whatever the "other video games" forum is).

 

[James Sparrow]

actually 25% of 200 is 50, sorry to burst your bubble.

but everything else is a good argument, except that the 15 armor boost your EHP by alot, letting you take less damage from said clinkz or razor, while lowering their attack speed. So it pretty much gives you more time to get your spells off and/or bait a greedy player into mindgames. My favorite hero to get shiva's on is leshrac cause first off, he has ****ty hp(armor = more EHP vs melee attacks). And second the active ability helps to land stuns or catch up to opponents running away.
Overall its a decent item for int heroes that have ****ty str gain, and when the other team has alot of melee heroes.

Attack speed works additively, so 200%-25% is 175%. Thing is this item is like assault cuirass in that it affects the whole team throughout the battle. The difference is that it gives a massive buff to you with the +15 armor which is great against physical damage. On top of the 25% debuff you also have a 40% slow/nuke that comes with it's activatable ability. Then of course you also have greater intelligence so you hit harder and have more mana for spells. This and orchid are especially great for destroyer in my opinion, as they give him something to do with mystics rather than just stack them or make agenheim's.

 

[DALegendarySauce]

Hey guys, I've heard that if you right-click on someone, you attack them.

Also, I'm probably going to move this over to the Light House soon (or whatever the "other video games" forum is).

no you aren't because that would be equal to closing it. this is 5150 BTW, kish.

now THATS a bulletball.

 

[KishPrime]

I guess since it's an alternate account I'll have to ban it. They are not permitted.

I've already left it open for weeks longer than I said I would. So much for being lenient.

 

[Ethan.]

Attack speed works additively, so 200%-25% is 175%. Thing is this item is like assault cuirass in that it affects the whole team throughout the battle. The difference is that it gives a massive buff to you with the +15 armor which is great against physical damage. On top of the 25% debuff you also have a 40% slow/nuke that comes with it's activatable ability. Then of course you also have greater intelligence so you hit harder and have more mana for spells. This and orchid are especially great for destroyer in my opinion, as they give him something to do with mystics rather than just stack them or make agenheim's.

oh ok, thanks for correcting me.

 

[James Sparrow]

I actually didn't know that until crashman said it.

 

[mathos]

I'm so upset this hasn't happened yet

Especially since now I can play more than one toon.

 

[KishPrime]

Man I was getting good for awhile but I've had about 4 terrible terrible games in a row.

Oh wellz

 

[5150]

shiva's gaurd eh? it's expensive. I say Lich get;s this, if you have a tank lich.

get skadi first probably, then you have a cool tank slower for late game. + its soo much slow, they probably hate that.

decreased atk speed is not worth mentioning imo, but armor and the slow can help in chase situation or escape situation. its so expensive!!

-Sauce

 

[5150]

Let's discuss scatter shot sniper.

I say its great because of all the fast farm.

Instead of farming for 3 mins and doing like 4-5 waves, you do it in half the time, so you can go help your team.

the bad side of this is that it pushes the lane, so if you are not a good ganking team then someone on their side gets that farm too.

You don't get the headshot damage as early if you do this build, which kinda sucks, but its just a like powering up early/early mid, and accelerating your awesomeness mid till end. It's bascially like becoming a lawyer instead of getting a job right out of highscool.

Also it's GREAT for stopping pushes, cuz you take it out in 5 secs, and get 1000 from it, which is a nice start on your next item.

not sure if it needs much mana support, probably just arcane ring.

thoughts?

-sauce

 

[Ethan.]

Yeah, its a decent build. But depend on what you go skill wise, it can cause you to lose ALOT of lane control.
If you go scatter/headshot you lose the advantage of harassing other ranged heroes, while if you go scatter/increased range you can still farm well with scatter, while maintaining good lane control. It's a little bit different when if you're laning against a melee hero, in which case going scatter/headshot is much more viable because the melee hero will have to be in range for him to get last hits.

Also thumbs-up on arcane ring. Good for scatter shot, and spamming your ult at level sixteen when its cooldown is ten seconds.

 

[James Sparrow]

You've gotta go all or nothing and I think the determining factor is the ease of your lane based on opposing heroes. Say your opponent is using razor, it's great to have a range advantage and a chance to headshot for ability to harass and better ability to deny his creeps. Say you're laned against Void, you can already easily harass and deny him, so go with scattershot/stats to gain the farming power sauce mentioned. I like arcane if you're going scatter/stats but not in the other situation. You have to increase your damage (sniper has **** for bas damage) and your attack speed (butterfly, mkb, crit are some options). If you're going to go eye, you don't need arcane ring for when you're 16 because you can spam 3 or 4 ults before needing mana at all.

 

[Ethan.]

agreed.

Next Topic?

 

[James Sparrow]

I think we should discuss getting butterfly on characters that have passive evasion. I've told my friend who likes PA that getting butterfly is dumb and wasteful because the 30% evasion gives only a 2% increase from blur's 28%. As most of you should know, evasion doesn't stack (with the exception of void's backtrack and spectre's dispersion because they are, in fact, not evasion in the same sense). The game mechanics simply take the higher percent rating and apply it to the calculations. Does butterfly make PA better? Yes, of course, she gains +60 damage (which amounts to +240 when critical occurs) +60 increased attack speed, and some armor to boot, but the thing I'm questioning is the +2% evasion. The butterfly's best attribute is it's ability to increase your EHP by ridiculous amounts due to increased evasion and armor. It takes a squishy hero like drow and makes her a beast. PA already has the evasion, so I find it wasteful. The total cost of butterfly is 3300 (eaglehorn) + 1150 (staff) + 1800 (recipe) = 6250 gold. Lets think about what alternatives there would be. For 2600 (demon edge) + 2x1400 (2x javelin) you could have a MKB for 5400. This grants +75 damage, +15 ias, and a 30% chance for a mini stun of +100 damage. If you were to crit with a mini stun, you would have +700 damage from the MKB alone.

Same deal with bounty hunter, Butterfly gives a bit more evasion, but for the same price (ok maybe 100 more gold) you could get radiance... Just doesn't make sense to buy it imo.

What do other people think about butterfly on evasion passive heroes?

Edit: I suck at math, radiance is 925 gold less than butterfly

 

[TheWalkingThano]

I play PA and I always go MKB over butterfly. I find it's best to work on maximizing the effectiveness of her ulti so attack speed is always my main attention. This also leads to getting other % based effects like Basher and MKB. The fact that MKB does a mini stun is also really important for survival against some channeling spells like SK's ulti if you're out of other options (no units to blink strike to or SS on cooldown). So for your reasons and these reasons, take MKB over butterfly with PA. I'm not so sure about other evasion heroes.

Then again I haven't played much with the new version and the change on the recipe for MKB might make it go the other way, but at a glance it shouldn't.

 

[James Sparrow]

In a game as balanced as dota, it's hard to make a case for wasting anything. It always pains me to see someone make a purge stick with 9 charges into a manta D:

 

[Jem.]

Play Ladder LOLplzkthx.

 

[James Sparrow]

I do play ladder: JamesSparrow@Azeroth

I know, not impressive. But I just started a few months back.

 

[5150]

me and sauce r trying a special build right now

 

[Ethan.]

care to elaborate??

 

[5150]

the special build didn't work out.

I think it depends on what ur feeling like, what item you should get.
butterfly's ias is sooo ****, especially whne you get ur next damage item.
crash says that just get hyperstone, but idk, im not good enough to debate late game items.

this is the kinda **** i'm up to whne i play dota.

http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/24417/index.html

lol

this one is a little better.

http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/24272/index.html

btw, this is sauce. (idk why i don't just switch accounts.)

-sauceee

 

[James Sparrow]

When I'm playing for fun I join apem, -random it, and then make up weird builds. For instance I just played as dragon knight and went boots to straight sheepstick, then 2x bracer, shivas, and bots. Constant dragon mode and breath spam for massive farming and pushing. We won.