Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[fontisian]

Jackrito / Rajam - Jackrito struck me as townie. Rajam has been very neutral, maybe a bit scum-lean since they haven't seemed to add anything new, but I think they are still processing and gathering info. If I had to bet, my gut says town, but could easily be scum. I'll reevaluate when Rajam lays down some serious thoughts.
3DSNinja* / Z25 - Z25 and I never see things from the same perspective so reading him is a bit harder. I recall seeing things I didn't like, and this is one of the places I need a reread.
Somitomi* / ExLight - I really haven't liked anything they have posted. Tunneling on all the wrong players that everyone else town reads for tone is a bit too bold for scum, but could be coming from a place of desperation if all the scum are in the shrinking PoE.

I'm probably confirmation biasing at this point, but the Jack read looks the most like a partner read here. Soft defense, with room to back off or double down later, while Boom tries to get us to go after easily misyeetable slots in Z and ExLight.

 

[LaserGuy]

you better have good evidence if you're going to make bold accusations like these

I have good enough evidence to put you at scum lean.

and if you think I'm the traitor who would the main mafia team players be? I'd be trying to get their attention, right?

Most likely scum at this point are BoomFrog > Rajam > Exlight > z25. Malakandra and Chaco I have some reservations about but are probably Town. Everyone else I'm fairly confident is Town.

I don't know that I believe a non-recruitable traitor would be going out of their way to signal mafia at this stage in the game, especially if the traitor is in a scummy slot to begin with. More risk that the traitor is lynched and leaves a trail to the rest of the mafia.

 

[fontisian]

How many townie points can we give BoomFrog for this? Zen, can you give us any insight? You two have had multiple games together right?

And Rajam is trying to set Boomfrog up to get townreads from town as well.

 

[fontisian]

And Rajam is trying to set Boomfrog up to get townreads from town as well.

I'm going to explain this further. Scum sometimes do this thing where they don't feel comfortable giving a townread on their partner and trying to convince town of it, so instead they point something out the partner did and try to get town to jump in and defend them.

Like, if you look at how Rajam treated Mala, he said "Frozen's comment about Malakandra seems to me more of an attempt to open a 'scumhunt' route instead of a distancing attempt. Makes me feel better about Malakandra. Sum to that the previous quote I put of DarkPit; Malakandra is town guys." And he did something similar with Darkpit, saying he's town. For most people in the game, Rajam is willing to commit to a read and say "this is town" or "this is scum." For Boom, he wants to leave that choice up to Zen, and jump on board only if he gets Zen's approval. For a scum player, they see this as insulating themselves from the fallout in a way just saying "[partner] is town for this reason" doesn't.

 

[fontisian]

I think Laser's logic has been solid Today, and he's likely been pretty right most of the game. I wouldn't clear him, but I definitely would not yeet him before Boom and Rajam.

 

[Rajam]

I mean I kinda wanna think there’s no way ever he would take the risk to claim chocolate D1 and run the potential of a CC, even with an odd of it not being in the game. Ballsy as hell if so.

Sorry to insist, but is Zen 100% cleared, or is he cleared just because we think he couldn't have done such a ballsy move?

"It is also known that the number of ninja shots that the Mafia have. If a visitor is present, the Mafia get 2 extra ninja shots. If a Chocolate Townie is present, then the Mafia get 1 extra ninja shot. If a Traitor is present, the Mafia get 1 less ninja shot. The game will never contain a Mafia Traitor without a Chocolate Townie or a Visitor."

I mean if I were in the mafia team and if we began the game with 2 ninja shots, I'd know there is a Visitor, and no chocolate neither a traitor. Claiming chocolate would be safe in that case

 

[ExLight]

I have good enough evidence to put you at scum lean.

you're just omgusing me because I tied your wagon D1 lol

 

[Rajam]

Actually scratch that. 1 Visitor + 1 Chocolate + 1 Traitor = 2 Ninja Shots. Question regarding whether Zen is fully 100% cleared or not still stands

 

[ExLight]

I mean if I were in the mafia team and if we began the game with 2 ninja shots, I'd know there is a Visitor, and no chocolate neither a traitor. Claiming chocolate would be safe in that case

2 shots means either visitor+choco+traitor or visitor and no choco or traitor
it's not safe tho

 

[Z25]

Funny, I thought you were reading me as scum in #977.



Why is pretending to be drunk any different from speaking in Haikus? Or emojis?



Actually, I did.


(I think the end quote here was cut off but I think I can guess what you were going for). So this isn't actually a case or a push, as far as I'm concerned. I'm giving an updated read on this slot based on new information. I have been trying to give my reads on the fly to minimize the amount of rereading I have to do later. Scum lean is a slot I will consider dropping a vote on, but isn't necessarily my strongest scumread.

Speaking of which, what is your read on BoomFrog? You had left him as blank in #977.

Did you actually read 977?

Here’s my current read list with some amends having to be made due to switch ins and our flip:

Town:
Chaco: They’ve been actively participating, and with strong content. Posts like 870 I like because it’s rare for scum day one to have a hard stance like that when they can ride a usually free push on someone in the game without suspicion. To try and yeet zen a pretty strong player day one would be a bold move, that just doesn’t seem likely as a scum play. They stick to their own views regardless of the wagon, and that’s usually a pretty townie tell.

Alternatively you could argue they didn’t want to consider frozen who then flipped scum, but I doubt scum Cha tries to save his mate by pushing a stronger player who had a solid claim behind them.

zen: Honestly pretty simple, he started out a little different then usual, but I see more of his usual self here. He’s listened and changed opinions based on points which is pretty townie oriented. Caring so much about getting people to vote near the end of the day is something, scum zen likely wouldn’t do when his mate was in hot water. Plus as I said, his slogan is to win with all mates alive, I don’t think that will change(and it shouldn’t because that’s a fun goal but that isn’t important).

Fonti: pretty self explanatory. She made solid points against FF, and can be confirmed.

Mostly likely Town;

Darkpit: they’ve been engaging actively, seem to have a fair understanding but still the vibes of someone who wants to learn more through their posts, which feels more like a townie whose newish, and not likely to be coached by someone like FF who seems to be a strong player from what the thread said. They’ve been actively trying to be involved as well and it feels more town motivated.

Triss: They provide good content and observations when here. Their list that functioned as a psudeo reads lost but also observed The general gist of each player was pretty good. It also makes for a useful tool to think on, so I don’t think scum does that day one.

Mala: They’ve been here often, actively participates and again provides observations that are clear attempts to try and solve. It’s hard to fake some of the confusion they have had, which is something a townie will have more then scum due to the latter having better


Null:
Boom:
Triss:
Honestly I’m going to cover both of these as my thoughts are similar. They’ve provided content but are still pretty hard players to read. I haven’t felt strongly one at or another for their alignment.

NSG: well he barely posted but was apparently town( flip happened as I typed this up), so I had no good read oh him.

Good Scum candidate:

Jack:
Somi/Ex:

Both of them weren’t as active, and I didn’t think much of their content, (mostly jacks as somi was a lot less on my radar with their content amount being small). I want to give ex a chance to disprove or prove this though. So I have to see where it goes from here.

Laser: seems to be playing more of a back seat role like how in 657 he mentions how he’s basically just following zen. Feels kind of pocketing, and is different then how I’ve seen him play previously. Then again he started in a previous game as scum with a very different and strange strategy aimed at getting reactions, so I don’t know how he could adapt here, but he’s worth looking at.

First off Boom is covered there.

Secondly, I put you at the bottom because your worth looking at at some point but you don’t have top priority.

Anyway,
How does being drunk garner the same reactions that Osie’s Haiku or your emoji posting did, it really came nowhere near those reactions. So how would one find it beneficial?

And as you can see I did touch upon Boom in that post.

 

[Rajam]

I am the visitor.

Also, running some numbers just in case, and assuming Zen is indeed Chocolate:

Mafia starts with (V: visitor / Ch: chocolate / T: Traitor):
0 ninja shots -> Either 0 V / 1 Ch / 1 T or 0 V / 0 Ch / 0 T. No visitor in both cases. Scum could 'safely' claim the role
1 ninja shot -> 0 V / 1 Ch / 0 T or 1 V / 0 Ch / 1 T. If they know there's chocolate, they know there's no visitor
2 ninja shots -> 1 V / 0 Ch / 0 T or 1 V / 1 Ch / 1 T. Mafia knows there's a Visitor so they can't claim that
3 ninja shots -> 1 V / 1 Ch / 0 T. Mafia can't claim neither chocolate nor Visitor

At the end I'm kinda paranoid about these supposed cleared guys and just want to make sure whether they're 100% cleared or if there's room for them to still be scum

 

[Darkpit54]

which means they could be the traitor, if there is one. Luckily, we don't actually have to yeet the traitor to win, so I think it's safe to just accept the spew from Frozen clearing them.

I didn't realize we don't need to yeet the traitor. That means it wouldn't really worth the effort to find it if it exists, right? This could prevent a lot of overthinking lol

Sorry to insist, but is Zen 100% cleared, or is he cleared just because we think he couldn't have done such a ballsy move?

Not 100%, but it's fairly likely he is due to the timing of his claim. Fonti is 100% cleared because a voyeur was able to see her visit last night (or at least, hasn't claimed that they weren't)

 

[BoomFrog]

Vote: Malakandra

If they flip town does that clear me? If not then just yeet me first before making reads based on my presumed alignment. Or better yet, talk to me about why you feel Mal is scum.

unvote
vote: Z25

I still consider this a legit slip from 3DS

Fontaine is slightly incorrect. Scum shot DB, and DB redirected the shot to Ninja. So a townie did decide to kill Ninja because they thought they were scummy. Regardless, what actually happened is irrelevant, what matter is how Ninja felt about it, and dying early twice could have led to this "new strategy" is town. Although it does raise the chance of traitor for the slot, because that is an overwhelming role for someone like Ninja. But I think if they were full mafia then they would be coached to have not clamed up.

oh yea I forgot you're so good that that cosmic townie brain was able to accurately pinpoint all scum after a single cycle despite having no mechanical info clearing like 8 of them
c'mon now LMFAO

I don't even know which PoE you're tunneling
you're putting me with Rajam and Z25 and they're like null reads to me where in the world am I trying to defend them

Who told you about my cosmic townie brain!?

Also my point is you are trying to attack Dark and Chaco to widen the pool, not defend the others in the pool. Your overdefensiveness about this doesn't raise my opinion of your slot either.

 

[ExLight]

but I wouldn't be surprised if the scumteam is just Frozen/Boom/Rajam

unless you're taking back you visitor claim there should also be a traitor

 

[ExLight]

Also my point is you are trying to attack Dark and Chaco to widen the pool, not defend the others in the pool

I'm not attacking Dark tho?

 

[ExLight]

maybe I should make a rainbow list to make my views on the player clearer
I'm kinda busy studying for a test so maybe later though

 

[BoomFrog]

At the end I'm kinda paranoid about these supposed cleared guys and just want to make sure whether they're 100% cleared or if there's room for them to still be scum

Fontaine is 100% cleared and Xivii is "only" very likely to be cleared. Their claim has some risk of being counter claimed. But also they did go for FF when they had opportunity to go elsewhere as Laser pointed out.

 

[Darkpit54]

Vote: Malakandra

Can you explain the argument behind this?

unless you're taking back you visitor claim there should also be a traitor

Not necessarily, there's a 50/50 chance of a traitor. Plus she addressed why a traitor is irrelevant later in that same post

 

[ExLight]

Fontaine is 100% cleared and Xivii is "only" very likely to be cleared. Their claim has some risk of being counter claimed. But also they did go for FF when they had opportunity to go elsewhere as Laser pointed out.

actually Xivii is more cleared than fonti
we didn't receive a tracker result confirming Fonti's claim and it's fakeable

while it's never safe for scum to claim chocolate

 

[BoomFrog]

I'm not attacking Dark tho?

It was someone I disagreed with. Who are your top scum picks?

 

[ExLight]

It was someone I disagreed with. Who are your top scum picks?

Laser, Chaco, and Z25 - scum leans
Boom - null-scummy
Rajam, Triss - null
Dark, Mala - null-town
Xivii, fonti, me - hard town

 

[BoomFrog]

actually Xivii is more cleared than fonti
we didn't receive a tracker result confirming Fonti's claim and it's fakeable

while it's never safe for scum to claim chocolate

Wut...? Voyer has nothing else to do except target LaserGuy and check Fontaine. There is no other benefit to their power. Therefore we can assume Fontaine was checked until we hear otherwise. And since there are two masons, they info can't die before we hear it.

 

[fontisian]

I prefer to be called font, fonti or fontisian, not Fontaine. Other nicknames will be evaluated on an individual basis.

 

[ExLight]

Wut...? Voyer has nothing else to do except target LaserGuy and check Fontaine. There is no other benefit to their power. Therefore we can assume Fontaine was checked until we hear otherwise. And since there are two masons, they info can't die before we hear it.

Traitor - 1
Choco +1
Visitor +2

If there's 0 ninja shots, scum can fake claim Visitor but not Chocolate (because setup is either Chocolate + Traitor or None of Chocolate/Visitor/Traitor)
If there is 1 ninja shot, scum can't fake claim ether Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Chocolate only or Visitor + Traitor)
If there is 2 ninja shots, scum can't fake claim either Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Visitor only or Visitor + Chocolate + Traitor)
If there is 3 ninja shots, scum can't fake claim either Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Visitor + Chocolate)

So scum could not safely claim Chocolate in either case.
Scum could only safely claim Visitor if they had 0 shots or if they had 1 shot and no one claimed chocolate. So in this case, scum could have only safely claimed Visitor if they had 0 ninja shots.

 

[Chaco]

Yeah Fonti is the one that’s cleared. Xiv in my mind is only logical cleared from game state and progression.

 

[ExLight]

unless you can counterargument this then xivii is pretty much cleared unless they took a <10% gambit or some dumb ****

 

[Chaco]

Are we close enough where I can nickname you get Fonti?

 

[fontisian]

Are we close enough where I can nickname you get Fonti?

You sure can try.

 

[Rajam]

This means that Xivii cannot be mafia, btw. If the scumteam has 2 ninja shots, they wouldn't know if they were just dealing with a visitor or if there is both a chocolate and a traitor, so it wouldn't be safe for Xivii to claim chocolate. If the scumteam has 1 ninja shot, they wouldn't know if the setup was 1 visitor and 1 traitor or 1 chocolate, so it wouldn't be safe to claim chocolate. And if the scumteam has 3 ninja shots, they would know there is both a chocolate and a visitor, and it wouldn't be safe to claim chocolate. The scumteam cannot have zero ninja shots, because of my role.

Paranoia mode on: You're scum and the scum team began the game with 0 ninja shots. That means scum know for certain there is no town visitor. N1 you disguise the mafia rolecop as the town visitor

Am I missing something? How do we know you're not the mafia rolecop?

 

[Malakandra]

Boom, could you respond to my #1303 and my #1305.

 

[LaserGuy]

Wut...? Voyer has nothing else to do except target LaserGuy and check Fontaine. There is no other benefit to their power. Therefore we can assume Fontaine was checked until we hear otherwise. And since there are two masons, they info can't die before we hear it.

Voyeur softclears rolecop targets on even nights.

 

[ExLight]

Paranoia mode on: You're scum and the scum team began the game with 0 ninja shots. That means scum know for certain there is no town visitor. N1 you disguise the mafia rolecop as the town visitor

mafia rolecop is even nights only tho

 

[fontisian]

Paranoia mode on: You're scum and the scum team began the game with 0 ninja shots. That means scum know for certain there is no town visitor. N1 you disguise the mafia rolecop as the town visitor

Am I missing something? How do we know you're not the mafia rolecop?

The voyeur sees what type of action hit the target, but the person taking the action. If I were the role cop, the voyeur would have been able to catch me. Also, the role cop is even night only. Also, also, I yeeted the roleblocker.

 

[ExLight]

Voyeur softclears rolecop targets on even nights.

that's why they should've done that N1

 

[Malakandra]

Paranoia mode on: You're scum and the scum team began the game with 0 ninja shots. That means scum know for certain there is no town visitor. N1 you disguise the mafia rolecop as the town visitor

Am I missing something? How do we know you're not the mafia rolecop?

Because mafia rolecop is even night

 

[ExLight]

that's why they should've done that N1

wait I misread that as tracker
my bad

 

[Chaco]

You sure can try.

Tisi?

 

[ExLight]

Tisi?

just call them sweetheart already will you

 

[fontisian]

Tisi?

No.

 

[Chaco]

No.

I’m kidding. There are no ways to shorten it well besides what’s specified. Plus I’m partial to Fonti.