Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[fontisian]

Unvote

Don't hammer, I'm doing a reread.

 

[Rajam]

I claim Vanilla Townie

 

[Xivii]

I cc

 

[Chaco]

Saw that claim coming. Running numbers in my head, I think toMorrow should be a mass claim.

I feel like Boom will claim the same if pushed.

And Ex has already claimed.

 

[Chaco]

I feel like the pool is going to be so diluted that it’s pointless not to after today.

fontisian Trisscar Darkpit54 Xivii Agree?

^trusted town and tunnel buddy

 

[fontisian]

There's really no point in claims unless a mason is going to get yeeted or the tracker has caught a scum. Leave it up to the masons to decide when to claim, don't force it.

 

[fontisian]

And when they do feel like claiming, it should be just one (ideally the voyuer) claiming, not both.

 

[Rajam]

I'm against mass claiming. No point in outing masons atm

 

[Z25]

I'm against mass claiming. No point in outing masons atm

What changed considering you wanted mass claims at first?

 

[Rajam]

nah it was just a pseudo-joke. While reading during N1 I seriously thought about doing it, but once D2 began the whole idea kinda fell apart with the neap flip. I still threw it out just to get conversations ongoing

 

[Chaco]

There's really no point in claims unless a mason is going to get yeeted or the tracker has caught a scum. Leave it up to the masons to decide when to claim, don't force it.

Right I get that. Do you see what I’m saying about dilution though and why I wanted y’all a opinion on a mass?

 

[Darkpit54]

I think a mass claim could shrink the yeetpool a little, but I don't really think it's that necessary unless a mason is the plan to be yeeted.

Someone like Chaco or Triss claiming mason rn would help scum more than town rn imo since we aren't really suspecting them anyways. Otoh if Boom were to claim mason tomorrow that would definitely shake things up lol.

Raj has already claimed vanilla so I definitely don't think it's necessary toDay

 

[fontisian]

Right I get that. Do you see what I’m saying about dilution though and why I wanted y’all a opinion on a mass?

I don't see what you're saying. Like, you seem to be saying "hey, the pool for masons has been narrowed a bit, so let's make things even easier for scum and out them."

 

[Chaco]

I don't see what you're saying. Like, you seem to be saying "hey, the pool for masons has been narrowed a bit, so let's make things even easier for scum and out them."

If wagon switches and Boom has to claim, the pool for VT is basically dry. We have 4 for sure with a max possibility of 5, if traitor isn’t active, open claims and scum have to claim VT. Easy picking from confirmed and trusted town. Which is why I said toMorrow.

 

[Chaco]

Especially with Ninja shots, narrowing Lynch pool is more likely than Tracker/Voy confirming scum.

 

[fontisian]

Especially with Ninja shots, narrowing Lynch pool is more likely than Tracker/Voy confirming scum.

You understand that, depending on whether we have a traitor or not, scum should be out of ninja shots Tomorrow Night, right?

 

[Trisscar]

wait thought visitor was +2 and chocolate was +1 shots, are you saying you think there's a traitor for a -1 and they also used their shot last night?

 

[fontisian]

They have either 2 or 3 ninja shots. They probably used one Last Night, for the Night Kill. They'll probably use one again Tonight, again for the Night Kill, and they might use a third shot, if they have it, for the Role Cop. Or they'll decide to conserve the ninja shots for later use, in which case the tracker has a chance to get them Tonight. Basically, the tracker is going to be useful and shouldn't be outed.

 

[Chaco]

You understand that, depending on whether we have a traitor or not, scum should be out of ninja shots Tomorrow Night, right?

Right I do. But I’m saying based on today’s lynch and then NK, the amount of claims remaining versus viable Lynch pool a mass claim makes more sense imo. We can disagree on that, and it is situationally dependent. But you can pretty much bet every person from here on out that’s a yeet target is gonna claim VT, which is why I’m suggesting that. Not because I’m counting tracker as useless, I’m just saying the pool will be so diluted at that point that it would be conducive to mass.

 

[Chaco]

We keep disagreeing on semantics when in reality all roads lead to Rome.

 

[fontisian]

Right I do. But I’m saying based on today’s lynch and then NK, the amount of claims remaining versus viable Lynch pool a mass claim makes more sense imo. We can disagree on that, and it is situationally dependent. But you can pretty much bet every person from here on out that’s a yeet target is gonna claim VT, which is why I’m suggesting that. Not because I’m counting tracker as useless, I’m just saying the pool will be so diluted at that point that it would be conducive to mass.

We are not arguing semantics. I am trying to tell you that there is no upside to forcing the masons to claim, only downsides. OK?

 

[Chaco]

We are not arguing semantics. I am trying to tell you that there is no upside to forcing the masons to claim, only downsides. OK?

I see what you’re saying, I just don’t think it’s accurate deeper into the game, and I think that will become self-evident.

 

[Chaco]

I’m gonna leave it alone at that because it’s obvious we aren’t going to agree there cause we are looking at endgame from two different perspectives.

 

[Chaco]

I think a mass claim could shrink the yeetpool a little, but I don't really think it's that necessary unless a mason is the plan to be yeeted.

Someone like Chaco or Triss claiming mason rn would help scum more than town rn imo since we aren't really suspecting them anyways. Otoh if Boom were to claim mason tomorrow that would definitely shake things up lol.

Raj has already claimed vanilla so I definitely don't think it's necessary toDay

I agree with this as well, I’m talking when the games player base has lessened to the point where there is a distinct finite number with already scummy people Inside of that trying to claim Vanilla cause it’s their only move.

 

[LaserGuy]

And when they do feel like claiming, it should be just one (ideally the voyuer) claiming, not both.

The masons should claim one day before a potential LYLO situation to avoid any counterclaim shenanigans. There's no reason to claim before that unless they have a result or need to avoid a lynch.

I don't think they should not claim their roles at all. Just say "we tracked X on N1 and voyeured Y on N1 and this is what we saw". It doesn't matter to Town who is the tracker and who is the voyeur, so there's no point in reporting it. Tracker is not a great PR, but it does get stronger as the game gets small, and it's the best we have right now so we may as well try to protect it.

 

[LaserGuy]

That was ligit in crossover, I want pretending that time either. I just happened to be scum that time. That thread was a monster.

There was definitely one lynch where your absence was noted. I think it may have been when we lynched jimbob in D3. I don't remember the exact details, but IIRC it looked really bad.

Fontaine's case was really really good. And the wagon on you was growing while mine was shrinking. You could have seen the writing on the wall and decided to bus (or FF have up hope told you to bus)

This seems a real stretch. Look at the VC right after Xivii voted for Frozen:

[4] FrozenFlame: Fonti, Pit, Triss, Xivii
[3] Xivii: BoomFrog, Chaco, Malakandra
[1] BoomFrog: LaserGuy
[2] LaserGuy: NonSpecificGuy, Jackrito
[1] Somitomi: #HBC | FrozenFlame

Xivii's vote puts a lot of momentum on the wagon here. He moves to me or puts up a case against someone else and it could have been pretty close thing. Compare to how much he's fighting the z25 lynch in Sumting. I find it bizarre that you're still tunneling this to the point that it kind of just feels like active lurking.

the only thing other Xivii could be is scum/traitor (if there is one) because of his miller claim. Which it’s just too ballsy of a move, and Fonti’s claim behind Xivii mechanically makes him more town. Considering Voy/track did their thing on Fonti, she is cleared and by proxy Xivii as well, imo.

Even in the off chance that Xivii was super ballsy enough to claim miller as traitor, that’s a lot to lose cause it could put him on NK radar by scum.

I agree that I can't imagine the traitor doing this. It seems very counterproductive.

I've never played scum, so I really can't say for certain. But I think it's important to acknowledge that scum could have done this to.

Scum will bus all the time, yes. Different players have different opinions on the merits of it and how much bussing they will actually do in practice though. Xivii has a fairly established meta of being against doing this sort of thing so it would be a big break for him to do it here.

i think i drink too much atonce oof

This whole sequence is very weird to me. I think I agree with Triss that it's possible this whole thing could have been an act. Putting Exlight at scum lean.

 

[fontisian]

ExLight How old are you?

 

[fontisian]

Hmm. Alright, how about a read on frozen flame?

fontisian Why did you not care about sorting FrozenFlame before I asked you to do a read?

LaserGuy what's your opinion of frozen flame?

Hey Boom, can you talk about what you were trying to do with these three posts? What were you thinking about at the time?

 

[Chaco]

LaserGuy Was responding to Rajam why I said Xivii was essentially cleared, and giving him the only other alternates which are highly unlikely.

 

[ExLight]

ExLight How old are you?

22, brazilian, male, straight, half asian half white, 1.60m, third year of mechanical engineering and heartbroken

 

[ExLight]

Tracker is not a great PR

it literally finds scum if it sees anyone moving
that's way stronger than any other roles lol

 

[ExLight]

Putting Exlight at scum lean

lol, I'm being scumread because I drank some alcohol to try to relax on a stressful day
ok

is this just OMGUS or do you have anything to comment on my posts that justify that nonsensical lean
or at least the posts from the person's previously occupying my slot?

 

[ExLight]

They probably used one Last Night, for the Night Kill

why probably? the odds of the tracker seeing them was pretty low and their secondary action was dead, if there was a right time to not use it it was yesterday

Someone like Chaco or Triss claiming mason rn would help scum more than town rn imo since we aren't really suspecting them anyways

I'm suspecting Chaco pretty hard
why are they being townread

 

[ExLight]

Traitor - 1
Choco +1
Visitor +2

If there's 0 ninja shots, scum can fake claim Visitor but not Chocolate (because setup is either Chocolate + Traitor or None of Chocolate/Visitor/Traitor)
If there is 1 ninja shot, scum can't fake claim ether Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Chocolate only or Visitor + Traitor)
If there is 2 ninja shots, scum can't fake claim either Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Visitor only or Visitor + Chocolate + Traitor)
If there is 3 ninja shots, scum can't fake claim either Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Visitor + Chocolate)

So scum could not safely claim Chocolate in either case.
Scum could only safely claim Visitor if they had 0 shots or if they had 1 shot and no one claimed chocolate. So in this case, scum could have only safely claimed Visitor if they had 0 ninja shots.

Reread this to see if there were any flaws but it sums all scenarios pretty well.

I was wondering if the traitor could fake claim since they'd have extra info, but apparently the traitor doesn't know how many mafia shots the main mafia team has and I doubt the main bad bois softed it in the thread since it's insanely risky, so yea. I feel like this should clear 98% clear Xivii because even as gambity as they are I really don't see them fake claiming chocolate considering how there cold've been a counterclaim no matter how many ninja shots.
Anyone that kept and keeps pushing for him even after the claim should prolly be shoved into a scumlean prolly.

Fonti is probably cleared too.
Idk why people are clearing all other players because unless they're like 100% sure they already found the scumteam they're just tunneling on some teams that probably don't make much sense.

EDIT: grammar fix

 

[ExLight]

many mafia shots

*many ninja shots

 

[Chaco]

My bad from above Laser I didn’t see you say agree, I was half asleep. My fault!

 

[Chaco]

why probably? the odds of the tracker seeing them was pretty low and their secondary action was dead, if there was a right time to not use it it was yesterday


I'm suspecting Chaco pretty hard
why are they being townread

I think the opposite goes into effect here, you have to say why you’re scum reading me instead of why everyone else is town reading? Then again you were suss of DarkPit also who is like insanely townie.

 

[ExLight]

I think the opposite goes into effect here, you have to say why you’re scum reading me instead of why everyone else is town reading? Then again you were suss of DarkPit also who is like insanely townie.

Why are you so mad? umu
I don't like your shooting everywhere blindly style of "hunting" during D1, and you literally stayed on a townconfirmed player until EoD, how is that not scummy?

Even if I'm wrong, it's way less damaging to see a townie as scum than seeing a scum as town
It's all about that type I and type II error babe

Yall shouldn't be clearing people like that prolly. Yall reducing the PoE into 3 players already and acting like gg easy game which is kinda 'eh?' imo it's just kinda messed up and reckless

about DarkPit, I didn't get these ultra townie vibes from him like everyone else when I was catching up with the D1 content. I feel like they're a good kid, but that's not alignment indicative lol.
However I do think he looks really good based on him voting early on in the roleblocker wagon and staying there when it got some momentum, so that certainly bumped him up for me. I trust concrete wagonomics more than my ability to read people rushingly umu

 

[Chaco]

Not mad at all, I just think you beg questions and don’t support anything. And my fault for blind hunting, don’t have knowledge as where to look on D1 start. Xivii wasn’t logic confirmed until flip.

And metaing the game would slot those 3 100%, but hey, I tunneled Xivii D1 all day, so obviously my scumdar is off.

But on a real note, I respond to everything. So if you have actual substance I will talk to you about it. All I’ve seen from your scum vibes is nitpicking stuff that is of no consequence and then kindve contradictory stuff, tbh.

Narrowed lynch pool makes most sense off of confirmations and connections to FF. It should make even more sense to you based off of game meta and your claim.

 

[Darkpit54]

Yall shouldn't be clearing people like that prolly. Yall reducing the PoE into 3 players already and acting like gg easy game which is kinda 'eh?' imo it's just kinda messed up and reckless

I think this is valid, and something we should keep in mind, especially if the next flip ends up being town. It's definitely smart to keep other options in mind. However, I think this yeet it's smartest to go for one of the scummiest slots and hope for the best lol