Mewtwo, Sceptile, or Jigglypuff

[ShinyRegice]

Jigglypuff: I don't believe that she will be cut. Even if she's maybe not as popular as SSB64 times, being one of the original 12 makes her pretty much untouchable because joining the battle in previous Smash instalments automatically make any character relevant. New Fairy-type also helps her a lot for current revelancy.

Mewtwo: I really want him to be back because it's an unique opportunity in the Smash history. Of all SSBM cut character, Mewtwo is the only one to not be a clone as well as the only one to have gained popularity and revelancy (well, except maybe for Young Link with OoT remake, but it's nothing compared to Mewtwo); if he doesn't return back that would be a huge missed opportunity. Unless Sakurai thinks that cut characters should never return back, or if he thinks himself that six Pokémon characters would be overkill (something I consider unlikely because I don't imagine him cutting someone for the sake of slot competition), there is little reason for Mewtwo to not returning back in Smash 4 as a playable character. I consider him as more likely than not, but not guaranteed.

Sceptile: this one seems to be the unrealistic option that everyone takes too seriously. The are too main arguments for Sceptile as a playable Pokémon newcommer: starter triangle completion, and Hoenn remakes. But really I consider those arguments as very weak. Charizard and Greninja are not in because they're starters, but for other reasons. Charizard is more of a legacy of Pokémon Trainer than anything else, and Greninja was chosen because IIRC Sakurai wanted a gen VI Pokémon as a playable character and he loved his design. If he chosen something like Aegislash or Hawlucha really we wouldn't have all of this speculation about Sceptile. Also ORAS games are pretty much irrelevant to SSB4 IMO, they release after the 3DS instalment and upcoming Pokémon games doesn't need the Smash promotion treatment; Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are going to be a commercial success, and that's pretty much set in stone, without needing Smash's help.
Unless Sakurai thought "Oh, I added a Water starter in addition to Charizard, let's add a Grass starter to complete the trio!", I seriously doubt that Sceptile has any chance, at least it was justified in SSBB because every starter could transform into another during battle. Plus isn't like the Grass-Fire-Water triangle in Pokémon is what Triforce is to The Legend of Zelda anyway.

tl;dr version:
Jigglypuff: original 12, Fairy-type, pretty much guaranted.
Mewtwo: unique opportunity to return him back, not so much against him besides competition, more likely than not IMO.
Sceptile: wanted mostly because of the presence of two other characters + ORAS context, but overall his arguments aren't very solid and are easily countered.

Apparently Sakurai mentioned he chose Greninja based on what they could do with him out of the other 3 starters. His popularity is just coincidence or it was obvious.

Are you sure about that? IIRC Sakurai mentioned he chosen Greninja among all gen VI Pokémon, not just starters. I'll read again what Sakurai said in the interview at E3 roundtable, where he stated why because he choses Greninja.

 

[Wasoodle]

All I care about is Jigglypuff. I NEED MY JIIGGZ.

 

[RamOne]

The only reason people think Sceptile has a chance is because of the holy starter trinity. I highly doubt Sakurai cares about that.
I think we're getting both Jigglypuff and Mewtwo.

 

[Bassoonist]

I believe that Jigglypuff should return, and that Mewtwo should come back as well.

Considering other series' characters in this game so far, the size of the Pokemon roster in Brawl (counting the Pokemon Trainer characters individually), and the prominence/popularity of the Pokemon series for Nintendo, I think its given that both of them SHOULD return.

I'd say that while it sounds like a lot, even adding Sceptile would not be overkill, considering the factors I mentioned above. In fact, it's flat out strange to have a water starter and a fire starter be playable but not a grass starter. That just wouldn't be right.

 

[Nat Perry]

It's not important to have a grass starter.

It was important with the Pokemon Trainer, because that's how it is in Pokemon games. You have fire, water, and grass Pokemon as starters. There's also a type triangle for that, yet that has never been shown to be a factor in choosing playable Pokemon in Smash Bros.

That's kinda like saying we need spear and axe users to complete the Fire Emblem weapon triangle. It would be nice to have that, but swords and tomes are the principal weapons in the series. Robin covers this well.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

That's kinda like saying we need spear and axe users to complete the Fire Emblem weapon triangle.

The difference is there isn't a spear or axe user in the game, there's already both a Fire and Water pokémon.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Villager pulls weeds and plants a frigging tree as attacks. Megaman used a shield made of leaves as an attack...

I still think Sceptile has a good shot, but this is just false.

FULLY grass based attacks.
A full grass based move set.
My apologies if that was not communicated clearly; or if that clause is what you walked away from my entire post with.

 

[Bumbalobob]

I would prefer to have Jiggs back, but hopefully slightly updated to show off her new fairy typing. Mewtwo would be great to have back as well and Scept. would be a nice addition. I just hope that mewteo and scept. don't have their mega evolutions as their final smash, two pokemon with mega evolution smashes seems more than enough.

 

[~Krystal~]

Sceptile has all the credentials. He's a starter, he's in his fully EVOLVED STATE WHICH MEANS HE'S TAKING US SERIOUSLY, he could be the game's grass type and he beat Darkrai. C'mon.

 

[Booster]

Mewtwo is what I want. Sceptile and Jigglypuff are some pretty forgettable Pokemon.

 

[L9999]

For all the people that speak about "elemental trio this and elemental trio the other". The elemental trio is not needed and is not an obligation or tradition. There was no elemental trio in Smash 64, and there was not elemental trio in Melee either. In Brawl the elemental trio was there for gimmick, not to establish a rule of elemental trio. The Original 12 IS a tradition and is almost a rule, the elemental trio is not. I think people just want Sceptile in because this said elemental trio thing, just like everybody wanted Chrom only because he is the protagonist of Awakening, and not really for the character. I know some people DO want Sceptile genuinely, but to be fair it is a REALLY small number, and Sceptile is not that popular either. Lil' Mac is popular, OP goddess Palutena is popular, and to mention Pokemon, Greninja and Mewtwo are both very popular, Sceptile is not. Next, the ORAS situation, the development started all he way back in 2012, and the roster surely was decided the same year, so there is no way in hell the Smash team would know about ORAS if XY was on their first days of development! Greninja was added late but on time because XY was about 5 months ready for release, this was in 2013. I think by the time Greninja was added, that marked the point of no more characters because the roster was already made anyway, and Lucina is a clone because she was added at the last minute, just like what happened with the clones in Melee. At E3 2014, Sakurai said the game is almost complete, sign that no characters were being added. And Sceptile cannot be a clone of anything in the roster. And this why I think Sceptile is not in. Jiggly is back like it or not and Mewto can be in, but he better not create a Landmaster situation due to the Mega Evolutions, he could use Psystrike, instead of using the ******** designs of his megas.

 

[chronomantic]

are you kidding me? Jiggly doesn't have any competition.

 

[Skyblade12]

Mewto better not create a Landmaster situation due to the Mega Evolutions, he could use Psystrike, instead of using the ******** designs of his megas.

You were doing so well too.

Psystrike may become one of his moves to help differentiate him from Lucario, but you need to face it, his Final Smash is going to be one of his Megas.

 

[GoinBananas]

I think Sceptile makes sense, but I believe we'll see Jiggs and probably Mewtwo.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I want Mewtwo the most. There was no reason to cut it for Brawl, and with its massive fanbase, it would be a mistake for Sakurai not to add it again.

As for the other two, I prefer Blaziken to Sceptile, and have a particular distaste to Jigglypuff in the actual Pokemon games that extends to Smash Bros. as well.

 

[Xenorange]

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GAMEPLAY!
GAMEPLAY!
GAMEPLAY!

Jigglypuff is AERIAL GOD! AERIAL GOD!

Jigglypuff the best aerial character in smash, and no one is close.

Jigglypuff is the purest glass cannon that can KO or be KO'd about equally as easily.

Jigglypuff is one of the most unique characters in Smash.

Along with the likes of Mario, Fox, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Peach, Falco, Marth, Zero Suit Samus, and Snake, Jigglypuff is one of the 10 best designed characters in Smash EASILY in my opinion.

You all can talk your terrible Pokémon-media movies and anime, you're "muh reps", your "muh sales", and your "muh popularuties", I'll take GAMEPLAY!

And gameplay-wise, Jigglypuff is A CHAMPION!!!!

And you know what=???

THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!!!

Because if you aren't playing Smash, your opinion is irrelevant.

I do play smash, and my opinion is just that, an opinion. I'm aware of how good she was in melee, but she failed to retain her "godlike" status in brawl. Making her an incredibly boring character as a result. I just despise her character and I don't think she belongs in a fighting game. This of course all an opinion.

 

[Skyblade12]

I do play smash, and my opinion is just that, an opinion. I'm aware of how good she was in melee, but she failed to retain her "godlike" status in brawl. Making her an incredibly boring character as a result. I just despise her character and I don't think she belongs in a fighting game. This of course all an opinion.

Um, there are plenty of other characters who dropped tiers like a stone in Brawl. Just because she's no good in Brawl doesn't mean she can't be good in the new game. Or that she should be excluded from the new game.

 

[Steelia]

Mewtwo and Jiggs are most likely in. Sceptile may be too little too late, but it'd still be awesome if he were considered when the roster was decided on 2 years ago.

Want to be added: All three!
Should be added: All three!
Most likely to be added: Mewtwo, Jigglypuff

Just can't pick only 1, not after SSBB had 6 playable Pkmn. 2 at best.

 

[fogbadge]

personally i doubt there'll be anymore pokemon beyond jigglypuff

 

[pupNapoleon]

No, they represent themselves.

You don't play as Pokémon Red version when you play as Charizard. After all, the cartridge doesn't have moves.

The cartridge is also not the game; the GAME is what you are playing when you are Charizard. The cartridge is just a tangible object, and the game is an intangible property an experience. The characters represent the games they hail from, hence why Robin was used for Fire Emblem, to represent more of the games from which she/he came.

When has Smash ever had replacements=???
And why would you change a nearly perfect character=???

Smash has arguablyhad replacements. It is a touchy idea beause no character has ever been outright declaed removed for another- and why would they? Sakurai is aware of the fan base each character has. Stating one character is removed for another would generate backlash for said new character. INstead he would remove the other, bring in the new, and confirm no correlation.
We do, however, have Young Link as a shining example of this. TO a slightly lesser extent, we have Lucina, who is here as the new Roy.

As for Jigglypuff as a perfect character? There are two signs to the coin.
As a playable character- yes, she is fantastic. This of course is to be checked within the balance of each game. I never disputed this for a second, in fact I commended her play style.
However, as an Intellectual Property, she is exceptionally outdated, and is actually quite a crippling factor to the most difficult franchise in smash to PROPERLY REPRESENT. However you spell it, this game is going to roughly try to have a certain level of fair representation where it's more prominent series get more characters, MORE REPRESENTATION. Pokemon cannot have 80 characters for all of the fans out there, and seeing as Jigglypuff is obsolete as a Pokemon character, it would be completely wise from the standpoint of her as an entity to cut her. There is an argument about thi in just about every thread on the board. It all boils down to this.

Her moveset rocks, and as a character, she is taking up space.

No, I'm a person that plays Smash games, which I doubt you do, seeing as how you have barely mentioned gameplay.

I also see through your linguistics bullcrap as a facade for your illogical and boring opinions that have no merits in gameplay, aka the first, second, third, and last thing you discuss when discussing Smash Bros. if you actually play the games.

You can throw your poop around all night buddy, doesn't make your opinions hold any more merit, nor mine any less.
It doesn't take too long to come up with the visual image of Boo fighting with Jigglypuff's move set. Yet if you need the assistance (and just want to go around bashing someone else's ideas because 'you say so' without doing anything other than providing bold lettering and abashing rage at the thought of a new idea), here you are.

-In terms of flotation, on a forefront, Boo has got it covered. He doesn't need legs, he can float on the ground at that lowered height.
-Why would he not be able to punch? Pound is not exactly a world-class specific move to Jigglypuff.
-Moves where extensions of the feet are needed could utilize Boo's tail.
-Rollout could be a charging Boo attack
-Sing could be replaced by Boo going non-corporeal. Which is in effect him evading an attack, which is not the exact same effect, it is slightly more useful, but keeps an enemy from attacking him for a moment.
-Rest could EASILY turn to just a SCARE; Boo scare's people. His screech attack would make complete sense to be him startling people.

And ultimately, Boo is just my suggestion as someone who enjoys him as a character, and finds that if Luigi were to get a separation from Mario as a franchise (and a character in King Boo), that Boo is the clear character chosen (or even still, that he is more important as a Mario character than Jigglypuff is as a Pokemon character. Either way, though, it was just a single suggestion as one option of a character who could take over the play style of Jigglypuff. If you do not like it, I'm sure there are many others who could take over.

I'd like to add, I am aware Jigglypuff is almost definitely going to return; but I find it remarkable that she is considered infallible simply because she was in the first game, and even more so that there are those that would not even consider a replacement as even a possibility (or in general, won't consider something, as such is the definition of being close minded).

If you want to respond more on a personal front, you can PM me, because otherwise we are done, this thread is not the place for it.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

If I had to pick just one: Jigglypuff.

As much as I want Mewtwo, I play as Jigglypuff a lot and would really miss her if she was cut.

I'm really hoping for both Jigglypuff and Mewtwo, which I think is very possible.

 

[Xenorange]

Um, there are plenty of other characters who dropped tiers like a stone in Brawl. Just because she's no good in Brawl doesn't mean she can't be good in the new game. Or that she should be excluded from the new game.

You failed to understand me, I don't care about her moveset viability. I just hate the character. She bugs me.

 

[Nat Perry]

On top of this, and this is on a completely personal whim, but if we got an axe-wielding Fire Emblem character (and axes are pretty dang cool), I wouldn't be begging for a lance user. Who we have now makes sense to me, and I personally favor what we have now as well.

Kind of like here. Sceptile doesn't make much sense logically, and on top of that, since we have fire and water types (which are both way cool types), I'm not really begging for a grass type. I'm not the most content with Greninja's inclusion, but at least he kinda makes sense being the most popular starter and how he can fight, and fighting with water is pretty cool to me.

So grass types lack coolness just like lances in my opinion. Haha. Although Nephenee's pretty cute.

Although all that means nothing, as it is my own point of view.

Like @ L9999 said there has never been a rule for having a playable elemental trio. That has never been established nor addressed by the word or will of Sakurai. There were more important factors contributing to both Charizard and Greninja's inclusion. Completing the elemental trio has never shown precedence outside the Pokemon Trainer, in which there it was necessary.

 

[Exegguter]

Jigglypuff is freakin awesome and my brawl main. I hope she gets in with a clefairy/gengar alt.

Mewtwo ot Sceptile are both fine to me either of those is good, but I prefer Sceptile.

 

[Skyblade12]

Although Nephenee's pretty cute.

Nephenee would be my vote for next character going in. Certainly over any axe wielder.

 

[Nat Perry]

Nephenee would be my vote for next character going in. Certainly over any axe wielder.

Haha yeah. I mean, Hector would probably be the only viable axe user to put in the game anyways, barring any mounted axe users such as Titania. As for Nephenee, it sucks she doesn't have much significance over the likes of Ephraim, Sigurd, Jagen, or Caeda. If that didn't matter (which I think it does to a degree) I'd put her in the game in a heartbeat. She kicks аss in the Tellius games, and was definitely one of my best units alongside the likes of Zihark and Haar.

 

[Bunny8093]

I voted Mewtwo when it comes down to what I want most however there is no chance Jigglypuff's getting cut now, least not in my mind. She was part of the original 12. I think we could get Jiggs and Mewtwo both though personally, but if we are only getting one of these two I'm sorry but Jigglypuff seems to be the safest bet. This Sceptile business is kinda dumb imo but whatever.

 

[Skyblade12]

Haha yeah. I mean, Hector would probably be the only viable axe user to put in the game anyways, barring any mounted axe useres such as Titania. As for Nephenee, it sucks she doesn't have much significance over the likes of Ephraim, Sigurd, Jagen, or Caeda. If that didn't matter (which I think it does to a degree) I'd put her in the game in a heartbeat. She kicks аss in the Tellius games though; she was definitely one of my best units alongside the likes of Zihark and Haar.

Spoiler

Yes and no. Importance to the plot is one thing, but iconic status, how recognizable the character is to the fanbase, is another. As great as Sigurd and Caeda may be, they're relative unknowns over here. Ephraim might have a chance, but I doubt it.

Similar to the way Lyndis shattered a lot of gamer's perceptions of a sword-wielder, becoming the iconic Myrmidon (even though she's not actually one technically) of the series, Nephenee did that for lance-wielders. Her sheer awesomeness utterly redefined how lances were viewed. Before her, lances were either carried by knights and mounted units, or given to the helpless Soldiers in green who got killed off. Nephenee gave us the first true look at a different type of infantryman. With power, style, and a fantastic design that made her the lance-wielder in the eyes of a lot of the fanbase. Generals are known for being the heavy armor guys. Paladins are known for being the horse guys. Even Ephraim was known mostly for being a lord.

Nephenee was known as being the LANCE lady.

Wow, that was off topic. Sorry.

I really don't think Sceptile is nearly as likely as the others, but I think we'll get both Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.

While Jigglypuff may not be as loved in Pokémon anymore, she's still a beloved character in Smash.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

TFW Sceptile is the only remaining Pokemon rep and Jiggly and Mewtwo are just cut.

 

[smashingDoug]

Sceptile i don't want to see any more gen 1 pokemon anymore 2 is enough

 

[Skyblade12]

Sceptile i don't want to see gen 1 pokemon anymore

Deal with it.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Sceptile i don't want to see gen 1 pokemon anymore

Time to fire it up.

Spoiler

 

[SmasherP83]

I don't hate Sceptile (In fact he's my favorite pokemon) but I find it stupid to add him just because (It finishes the Fire/Water/Grass trio) I find that dumb. I know Charizard (Fire) and Greninja (Water) are in the game but I don't see a reason for it just because it finishes the little trio. In all fairness I see Jigglypuff coming back rather than Mewtwo.

 

[smashingDoug]

Deal with it.

and 2 is enough i don't want what we had in brawl again

 

[Nat Perry]

Yes and no. Importance to the plot is one thing, but iconic status, how recognizable the character is to the fanbase, is another. As great as Sigurd and Caeda may be, they're relative unknowns over here. Ephraim might have a chance, but I doubt it.

Similar to the way Lyndis shattered a lot of gamer's perceptions of a sword-wielder, becoming the iconic Myrmidon (even though she's not actually one technically) of the series, Nephenee did that for lance-wielders. Her sheer awesomeness utterly redefined how lances were viewed. Before her, lances were either carried by knights and mounted units, or given to the helpless Soldiers in green who got killed off. Nephenee gave us the first true look at a different type of infantryman. With power, style, and a fantastic design that made her the lance-wielder in the eyes of a lot of the fanbase. Generals are known for being the heavy armor guys. Paladins are known for being the horse guys. Even Ephraim was known mostly for being a lord.

Nephenee was known as being the LANCE lady.

Wow, that was off topic. Sorry.

I really don't think Sceptile is nearly as likely as the others, but I think we'll get both Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.

While Jigglypuff may not be as loved in Pokémon anymore, she's still a beloved character in Smash.

Crap ya we got off topic there. I was aware of Nephenee's popularity, however I wasn't aware of her iconic status as a lance-wielder. Interesting, I kinda want her in the game now. Haha.

I love Gen 1, it's my favorite out of all the generations of Pokemon. There's no denying how beloved and iconic it is.

 

[ShookedOnes]

I've never understood the mentality of specifically wanting non-gen one Pokemon just for the sake of "generational diversity". It's not like the Pokemon introduced in the first generation are obtainable only in it; Mewtwo represents the variety of generations that he's catchable in, from the first to the third to the fourth to the sixth, and he's far more popular and readily identifiable to people than a Pokemon like Sceptile, which lends itself well to Smash since not everybody that's interested in this game is a Pokemon fan. Regardless, at some point the people who complain about it are just going to have to accept that the first generation is simply more popular than those that came after, which will always lead them to having more abundant representation than the others, especially in a game like this that's supposed to represent Nintendo's (and sometimes gaming's) most popular characters coming together.

Honestly, out of characters that haven't been confirmed, I'd at least want Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Meowth to all be playable in the new Smash before I'd think of asking for a Pokemon not from the first generation.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Zoroark :T... he is the Ridley of Pokemon newcomers (because he is not fully deconfirmed just yet).

Also, I still don't see why people clinge so hard on Jigglypuff. That theory of "muh originul 12" seems like its not enough to me.
In the end though, she is the one to appear because... well... she is already there.

 

[Skyblade12]

Zoroark :T... he is the Ridley of Pokemon newcomers (because he is not fully deconfirmed just yet).

Also, I still don't see why people clinge so hard on Jigglypuff. That theory of "muh originul 12" seems like ******** to me.
In the end though, she is the one to appear because... well... she is already there.

Because I really liked the way she played? Because being a trolly jerk by dropping into the middle of three other characters who were beating the crap out of each other, using Rest, and waking up to find them all KO'd was a fantastic feeling?

 

[Loungemen]

Jigglypuff.

Now that she's a Fairy type, we can expect to see new moves from her. We can get rid of that useless Up B with Disarming Voice or Dazzling Gleam.

 

[Nat Perry]

Nah, Jigglypuff's fine the way she is. There is a possibility that there will be custom moves derivative of the Pokemon games. Her Final Smash needs to change though.