Mewtwo, Lucas, and Balance Patch v1.0.6 Predictions? Hopes? Complaints? Vent here!

[X1Type1]

Here we go again, and this time Sakurai isn't holding back. With two new characters coming and a balance patch, how do you think the meta game will shift? What do you wish to see for Mewtwo and Lucas? Also what are your thoughts on yet another patch? Are you sick of all the Hoo Ha or lagless Shiek combos? Want to see more from neglected characters? Or would you be more content with leaving things as they are in favor of familiarity?


As for me, I have a personal dislike for major balance tweaks in fighting games as I find they reward bad players for complaining about a character or exploit rather than rewarding good players for mastering and utilizing said gameplay elements. The only time I ever found a nerf necessary was in Brawl reguarding Meta-Knight's Mach Tornado since that didn't require you discovering anything like Jtails did with Hoo Ha, Nado was just there for you and it was super hard to deal with. I also personally enjoy the Hoo Ha as it has become quite the funny community joke and all kidding aside it really does require enough skill to execute in that it's not completely broken (I mean you DO have to get a read to get the grab whereas Brawl MK you usually didn't have to do much of anything except mash B excluding a few matchups with some of the other top tiers i.e. Marth, MeraKnight, Ice Climbers. Plus I've noticed that most online llayers who choose Diddy can't even do it correctly so really only the competitive scene utilizes it correctly, which proves there is some skill in its excecution albeit basic. Lastly it's not like Diddy is anywhere near as popular as Brawl MK or Melee Spacies in top 16s of tournies) and besides half the cast has some sort of throw into airial attack combo. Maybe instead of removing Hoo Ha they can just give the up air a little less kill power? That's just my opinion though, especially considering I love to play as my favorite little Chimp from one of my favorite games and I would hate to see him end up like poor Greninja (who was actually my main before switching to Diddy post update v1.0.4).

Also are you going to participate in the Smash U New Fighter Ballot? I voted for Issac from Golden Sun. I would also like to see Vaati, Tails, King K. Rool, Snake, Wolf, Paper Mario, Banjo Kazooi (probably not likely but one can hope!), and Shovel Knight.

 

[PCHU]

I just hope they won't nerf anyone.
If anything, I'd like to see buffs for the less gifted characters to keep the game fun for everyone.
I mean, that's their goal, right?

 

[KenMeister]

Please buff Zelda and Samus, good lord...

 

[Duplighost]

What I would like to see are necessary buffs (not nerfs).

There are some characters I feel are extremely lacking in some areas (Wii Fit Trainer, Palutena) that need some buffs to better balance the game, which is Nintendo's goal in creating a more fair battle system. For example, extending Wii Fit Trainer's grab range and/or smash attacks would make her much more viable, tournament-wise so to speak, and allow her to be a better combatant all around. Palutena, on the other hand, should be much more agile, and her attacks should not be as slow as they are. Countless times have I seen Wii Fit Trainer miss an easily accessible grab (that potentially could have called the game for them) due to her inferior grab range, and a Palutena being punished to a KO because of her extremely laggy moves. These are just a few examples of characters I can justify, but there certainly are more I feel need to be strengthened to make the game more fun.

I do not believe anybody needs to be nerfed, and that includes Diddy Kong. My opinion on the infamous Hoo-Hah may be separate from the majority of the innocents victimized by Diddy, but I still stand strong when I say that Diddy is not the best character in Smash 4. The aspect of Diddy's nefarious kill setup is quite simple: Grab -> Down Throw -> Up Air... by looking at this, it may be a glaring option for people to simply DI out of his Down Throw to avoid the Up Air. As reiterated as this phrase has been mentioned around Smashboards, it is simply a vital tool we must consider when being attacked by Diddy. A simple DI can literally save you from Diddy's Up Air when executed correctly (and it is not difficult to do to say the least). If anything, Ness' throw is more of a threat than Diddy Kong's is.

Lastly, my one wish for Smash 4 is to have Wolf return. We finally got to see a StarFox villain make the cut, but for some odd reason, he was neglected and didn't make his way into the newest Smash installment. This is unfortunate for me at least, so hopefully he is purchasable by DLC. He was such a unique character that deserved to move on.

 

[Tino]

Buff Rosalina back the way she was before the first patch just to piss everyone's pants off.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Give Lucario a little more combo ability while in the air (reducing the knockback of his F-air just a tiny bit as well as making his aerial attacks chain/link better), and remove the landing lag of extremespeed (that hurts Lucario very bad and sets up a lot of punishes), I want to have my combo machine from Brawl back a little bit.

I hope Diddy and Sheik gets the nerfs they deserve (even though I like Diddy and use him on and off).

 

[PigglyJuff]

I dunno, maybe fix the atrocity that is the net's ending lag.

 

[Foar]

Expand Marth's dong.
You people better vote for Wolf.

 

[BBC7]

I voted for Zero from Mega Man X.

 

[Sir Tundra]

Guys listen.. Their Just gonna nerf again.

In all seriousness though I'm not sure if their should be any nerfs outside of Diddys HOO HAH of course.
If anything their needs to be some major buffs for alot of the underwhelming characters so that they can go up to par with the viable characters in smash 4 like give Falco lagless SHL's(of course this also applies for fox), or make Marths aerials have less lag, or make Samus have better frame data on her moves etc. I also hope Sakurai actually puts in more shield stun in the game so that we could get more offensive options besides shield pokes for smash 4 but one can only dream

 

[MapleWooD]

I voted for Zero from Mega Man X.

Hate to burst your bubble but since Mega Man was included as a third-party character, it's unlikely we'll get more representatives form the same series.

 

[JapanGuy]

Hate to burst your bubble but since Mega Man was included as a third-party character, it's unlikely we'll get more representatives form the same series.

Yes! Wolf should have been in the game from the start.

Also, does anyone think Mewtwo is going to have any combo potential? I'm not familiar with his Melee counterpart, so can someone tell me if he is likely to have combos?

 

[X1Type1]

I just hope they won't nerf anyone.
If anything, I'd like to see buffs for the less gifted characters to keep the game fun for everyone.
I mean, that's their goal, right?

I agree wholeheartedly. I love HOO HAH! But I love seeing other characters too! We should have both!

I dunno, maybe fix the atrocity that is the net's ending lag.

Nah Villager is already really.good as it is and has a plethora of kill options outaide of bthrow. Plus his grab range is ludicrous.

What I would like to see are necessary buffs (not nerfs).

There are some characters I feel are extremely lacking in some areas (Wii Fit Trainer, Palutena) that need some buffs to better balance the game, which is Nintendo's goal in creating a more fair battle system. For example, extending Wii Fit Trainer's grab range and/or smash attacks would make her much more viable, tournament-wise so to speak, and allow her to be a better combatant all around. Palutena, on the other hand, should be much more agile, and her attacks should not be as slow as they are. Countless times have I seen Wii Fit Trainer miss an easily accessible grab (that potentially could have called the game for them) due to her inferior grab range, and a Palutena being punished to a KO because of her extremely laggy moves. These are just a few examples of characters I can justify, but there certainly are more I feel need to be strengthened to make the game more fun.

I do not believe anybody needs to be nerfed, and that includes Diddy Kong. My opinion on the infamous Hoo-Hah may be separate from the majority of the innocents victimized by Diddy, but I still stand strong when I say that Diddy is not the best character in Smash 4. The aspect of Diddy's nefarious kill setup is quite simple: Grab -> Down Throw -> Up Air... by looking at this, it may be a glaring option for people to simply DI out of his Down Throw to avoid the Up Air. As reiterated as this phrase has been mentioned around Smashboards, it is simply a vital tool we must consider when being attacked by Diddy. A simple DI can literally save you from Diddy's Up Air when executed correctly (and it is not difficult to do to say the least). If anything, Ness' throw is more of a threat than Diddy Kong's is.

Lastly, my one wish for Smash 4 is to have Wolf return. We finally got to see a StarFox villain make the cut, but for some odd reason, he was neglected and didn't make his way into the newest Smash installment. This is unfortunate for me at least, so hopefully he is purchasable by DLC. He was such a unique character that deserved to move on.

You are right, thing is, many players love to whine about stuff they can't deal with until Nintendo fixes it and then they will cry about something else.

Expand Marth's dong.
You people better vote for Wolf.

Agreed. I think Marth is literally the worst character besides Mii Swordsman with Lucina being only slightly better. He definitely needs a boost.

Give Lucario a little more combo ability while in the air (reducing the knockback of his F-air just a tiny bit as well as making his aerial attacks chain/link better), and remove the landing lag of extremespeed (that hurts Lucario very bad and sets up a lot of punishes), I want to have my combo machine from Brawl back a little bit.

I hope Diddy and Sheik gets the nerfs they deserve (even though I like Diddy and use him on and off).

I agree with the first paragraph but not tje second because I don't want HEEEY YO LOOK OUT DOWN BELOW HERE HE COMES BANANA SLAMMA KONG BONGO'S HEROOOO HEEEEY YO DIDDY KONG LETS GO LETS GO HERE HE COMES BANANA SLAMMA
HOOOOOOO HAH
to end...
lol!

lol god no Dabuz 2 good already.

Buff Rosalina back the way she was before the first patch just to piss everyone's pants off.

 

[Dr.Megaman]

Buff Megaman's metal blades and nurf his up aerial. Wolf and Snake get my vote!

 

[X1Type1]

Buff Megaman's metal blades and nurf his up aerial. Wolf and Snake get my vote!

Mega Man is really good but I do think he could use a little buffing. Not in the same way though his metal blade is amazing. if u pick it u and throw it it does like 8-10%. I want is dsmash buffed actually i think it needs less endlag and i want his fair to have less landing lag. then he'd dthrow into sick flame sword combos with projectile follow ups!

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Overall buff to Marth/Lucina, Samus, and Mii Swordfighter; less lag on some of Greninja's moves (Grab, Water Shuriken and Forward Tilt), more speed on Charizard and a slightly weaker Hah.

I've already voted for Snake, but I'd be happy with Golden Sun Isaac or Wonder-Red.

 

[Soul Train]

Smash 4 is a fantastic game, well balanced, with a few exceptions and all we need are some tweaks to further polish up a few characters.

Nerfs:
Diddy: -slightly- less knockback on Uair. That's it.
Sonic: the only real nerf hammer that's needed. Sanic can choose to simply not play the mindgames that are Smash, even at a high level. Needs actual punishable endlag/range on moves like Homing Shot, Dash Attack, etc.

Fixes:
Falco: slightly buffed runspeed.
Lucina: would love to see her get a slight speed buff, just to set her apart from Marth in a viable way.
Dr. Mario: recovery needs a buff. Not to the greatness that is Mario, but holy hell it's almost Little Mac-ish easy to gimp him.
Bowser: Klaw hitbox whiffs at ultra close range, wut. And if Bowsericide is going to stay dead, then Bowser should have complete control of where it lands - it's stupid to be punished (read: lose an entire stock) for making the correct read on an opponent.
Charizard: Uthrow should be his killthrow, and Dthrow his combo starter. That's it.
King Dedede: Fair and Bair hitboxes need fixing to match their actual animations. And more importantly: increase the minimum Gordo reflect threshold to 5-6%. That way, opponents have to commit to their reflect just how Dedede does, and the volley becomes interesting. Oh - fix the Gordo Glitch. It's obviously not intentional and just breaks mirror matches.
Wii Fit: slightly better grab and smash ranges. Otherwise she's great - with customs she is a MONSTER.
Mii Brawler: the knockback of dat UpB.

Mechanically - just how they took out Link's bomb cancels, I'd be alright if they eliminated the Platform cancels that Pikachu/custom DK abuse. Doesn't feel like intentional game design to me.

Otherwise, I'm so happy with this game, especially compared to Melee/Brawl. Almost all of the characters are so intentionally fun and unique - while remaining both threatening yet beatable! Meta Knight, Mario, Bowser Jr, - I love feeling the obviously intentionality Nintendo put into them. And now how Nintendo continues to polish this great product - Shulk is great now, Ike is hella fun, and Rosalina a hard yet beatable challenge.

I for one am looking forward to this patch. It's just further evidence of a great company getting better.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

I agree wholeheartedly. I love HOO HAH! But I love seeing other characters too! We should have both!

Agreed. I think Marth is literally the worst character besides Mii Swordsman with Lucina being only slightly better. He definitely needs a boost.


I agree with the first paragraph but not tje second because I don't want HEEEY YO LOOK OUT DOWN BELOW HERE HE COMES BANANA SLAMMA KONG BONGO'S HEROOOO HEEEEY YO DIDDY KONG LETS GO LETS GO HERE HE COMES BANANA SLAMMA
HOOOOOOO HAH
to end...
lol!

I'm sorry but Diddy needs to be nerfed quite a bit as does Sheik, end of story.

Marth/Lucina need buffs (they are probably the worst characters in this game, right up there with Falco, maybe give them both more combos off of throws perhaps and give Marth proper tipper hitboxes, since most of the time when you hit with the tipper portion on some of his attacks sometimes it won't connect, and Lucina needs the tipper removed on her d-air).

Megaman needs some landing lag on his f-air reduced and a slightly buffed d-smash.

Lucario needs his air combo game to chain/link better like it did in Brawl (not a whole lot, like maybe get 2-3 air attacks off as he's falling), along with the removal of the extremespeed landing lag.

Falco needs to have some of his landing lag reduced slightly, not a whole lot, his ground game can stay as it is.

 

[Dr.Megaman]

Megaman needs less lag on his Down Smash and nurf his up aerial

 

[VioletSmashfan]

Megaman needs less lag on his Down Smash and nurf his up aerial

The down smash I get (since it has too much lag on the entire attack), but why nerf his up-air? It is too OP?

 

[Dr.Megaman]

The down smash I get (since it has too much lag on the entire attack), but why nerf his up-air? It is too OP?

That was the only nerf I thought Megaman needed. My friends complain that its OP.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

That was the only nerf I thought Megaman needed. My friends complain that its OP.

It's not really that OP, it's great for landing combos with and is a decent kill move, your friends are probably upset at the knockback the move has after it's used and are complaining that it's OP and broken, if they really hate the move don't use it plain and simple, 1 move shouldn't be changed to benefit the complaining whinners.

Megaman has many other nifty tools he can use to get kills with.

 

[Maxoxpower]

why anyone don't talk about DK? This guy need real BUFF.
so much LAG.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

why anyone don't talk about DK? This guy need real BUFF.
so much LAG.

Because Custom DK is good enough.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Smash 4 is a fantastic game, well balanced, with a few exceptions and all we need are some tweaks to further polish up a few characters.

Nerfs:
Diddy: -slightly- less knockback on Uair. That's it.
Sonic: the only real nerf hammer that's needed. Sanic can choose to simply not play the mindgames that are Smash, even at a high level. Needs actual punishable endlag/range on moves like Homing Shot, Dash Attack, etc.

Fixes:
Falco: slightly buffed runspeed.
Lucina: would love to see her get a slight speed buff, just to set her apart from Marth in a viable way.
Dr. Mario: recovery needs a buff. Not to the greatness that is Mario, but holy hell it's almost Little Mac-ish easy to gimp him.
Bowser: Klaw hitbox whiffs at ultra close range, wut. And if Bowsericide is going to stay dead, then Bowser should have complete control of where it lands - it's stupid to be punished (read: lose an entire stock) for making the correct read on an opponent.
Charizard: Uthrow should be his killthrow, and Dthrow his combo starter. That's it.
King Dedede: Fair and Bair hitboxes need fixing to match their actual animations. And more importantly: increase the minimum Gordo reflect threshold to 5-6%. That way, opponents have to commit to their reflect just how Dedede does, and the volley becomes interesting. Oh - fix the Gordo Glitch. It's obviously not intentional and just breaks mirror matches.
Wii Fit: slightly better grab and smash ranges. Otherwise she's great - with customs she is a MONSTER.
Mii Brawler: the knockback of dat UpB.

Mechanically - just how they took out Link's bomb cancels, I'd be alright if they eliminated the Platform cancels that Pikachu/custom DK abuse. Doesn't feel like intentional game design to me.

Otherwise, I'm so happy with this game, especially compared to Melee/Brawl. Almost all of the characters are so intentionally fun and unique - while remaining both threatening yet beatable! Meta Knight, Mario, Bowser Jr, - I love feeling the obviously intentionality Nintendo put into them. And now how Nintendo continues to polish this great product - Shulk is great now, Ike is hella fun, and Rosalina a hard yet beatable challenge.

I for one am looking forward to this patch. It's just further evidence of a great company getting better.

I'd rather they give Lucina less lag on her aerials so she could be sort of like the aerial version of him. Plus it's quite a bit more interesting and unique than a speed boost

Sidenote, fix Zelda's everything. Less lag on Fair and Bair, No freefall after dins, More range on up smash, make it so characters can't fall out of Fsmash. I feel like forward tilt and back throw are supposed to be kill moves yet they aren't so make them. A very slight speed boost would be nice too

 

[Scarlet Jile]

The Triforce of Shame must rise to power...

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

The Triforce of Shame must rise to power...

I get the feeling Sakurai hates the triforce, Link, Zelda and Dorf suck. Tink got nerfed yet sheik is ridiculously good

 

[sleepy_Nex]

Less lag on Palutena's smashes is all i want. Maybe better windboxes too.

 

[Maxoxpower]

Because Custom DK is good enough.

custom Dk is not legit for Many tournaments and game ONLINE

 

[CaptainZer0dew]

I get the feeling Sakurai hates the triforce, Link, Zelda and Dorf suck. Tink got nerfed yet sheik is ridiculously good

If he hates the triforce, then he wouldn't have buffed Zelda. Dorf isn't bad he's just middle tier, and people play Link just to be jerks. I mean, you spam Boomerang to Arrow over and over and you can rack up 30 percent each time it hits.

 

[kesterstudios]

nerf:
diddy kong - much less knockback on up air, slightly change the angle and give a little more knockback on down throw (similar to what happened to king dedede's down throw in patch 1.04), and maybe something else.

slight nerf:
sheik

buff:
marth (please buff him sakurai)
lucina
samus
Zelda
charizard
king dedede
game and watch

slight buff:
ganondorf
dr. Mario
wii fit trainer
falco
little mac
bowser jr.
Kirby
donkey kong (only if they nerf kong cyclone)
a few other characters

I think the other characters are fine.
I also think they need to nerf extreme balloon trip on villager and fix some glitches like that olimar pikmin glitch

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

If he hates the triforce, then he wouldn't have buffed Zelda. Dorf isn't bad he's just middle tier, and people play Link just to be jerks. I mean, you spam Boomerang to Arrow over and over and you can rack up 30 percent each time it hits.

They buffed Zelda's farores wind, nayru's love, her grab and...

That's literally it, everything else was nerfed

 

[CaptainZer0dew]

They buffed Zelda's farores wind, nayru's love, her grab and...

That's literally it, everything else was nerfed

I found her smash attacks to have high knockback. One killed me as a Ganondorf at the middle of the stage when I was just at 80%, she was around 90-ish so I don't know if the rage kicked in or not.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I found her smash attacks to have high knockback. One killed me as a Ganondorf at the middle of the stage when I was just at 80%, she was around 90-ish so I don't know if the rage kicked in or not.

Down and up smash both got horrible range nerfs and people can fall out of up and forward smash even more

 

[CaptainZer0dew]

You can only fall out of up and side smash if you're right at the edge, at least that's what happened when I tested with friends.

EDIT: Also by edge I mean edge of the hitbox, not edge of the stage, but I guess you could be pushed out and could fall on the ledge.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

You can only fall out of up and side smash if you're right at the edge, at least that's what happened when I tested with friends.

EDIT: Also by edge I mean edge of the hitbox, not edge of the stage, but I guess you could be pushed out and could fall on the ledge.

As a Zelda main, I can tell you that it happens way too much

 

[kirby3021]

I'm hoping for a bit less knock-back with Diddy's Uair and less ending lag for Greninja. He was awesome pre-patch. I think Little Mac could stand for some sort of buff, but I don't quite know what.

 

[CaptainZer0dew]

As a Zelda main, I can tell you that it happens way too much

I'll take your word for it, I tried out Zelda and I just am not used to her moveset...

 

[CaptainZer0dew]

I'm hoping for a bit less knock-back with Diddy's Uair and less ending lag for Greninja. He was awesome pre-patch. I think Little Mac could stand for some sort of buff, but I don't quite know what.

What they wanted to do for Little Mac was make sure that he could stay to his boxer roots. He never really jumped and attacked in the game, he was powerful on land, because of that, his recovery isn't the greatest, all his off stage attacks do what 6%? but on land he's a machine.

 

[kirby3021]

What they wanted to do for Little Mac was make sure that he could stay to his boxer roots. He never really jumped and attacked in the game, he was powerful on land, because of that, his recovery isn't the greatest, all his off stage attacks do what 6%? but on land he's a machine.

That's true. There's only one really good Little Mac I play against regularly and he's a beast (he's taken the time to learn the character), but most who I play on FG are pretty easy to beat. I guess Little Mac doesn't really need any buffs, he's awesome if you play him right.