Sempai
Smash Ace
Does that mean only aerials that come out frame 5 or faster will have a hitbox? (Fair and nair)
Therefore anything slower will not come out before mewtwo lands?
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Data Mewtwo Frame Data - 3.02
- Thread starter KuroganeHammer
- Start date
Therefore anything slower will not come out before mewtwo lands?
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
No, that's the five frame landing lag, sempai.
Any aerial can be hover canceled, you just have to be hovering long enough for the hitbox to come out.
Any aerial can be hover canceled, you just have to be hovering long enough for the hitbox to come out.
Hover = ~62 frames
Maximum amount of hover time before it uses your double jump: 19
There is no distinguishable animation change so I can't tell how long hover is since Mewtwo doesn't fall fast enough.
I guess I could modify the pac file to make him drop faster than Fox, but that would require effort.
My frame advance is hating me atm so...
Maximum amount of hover time before it uses your double jump: 19
There is no distinguishable animation change so I can't tell how long hover is since Mewtwo doesn't fall fast enough.
I guess I could modify the pac file to make him drop faster than Fox, but that would require effort.
My frame advance is hating me atm so...
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Sempai
Smash Ace
This is auto canceled? no l-cancel necessary right?
if you use a move in hover, then cancel the hover and land during frames you'd take landing lag then you only take the 5 frame penalty instead
Updated.
Cross post from the Ike boards:
I want someone good at Ike to write this up to add into the introduction; a short but sweet overview of a character in this format:
I'm not sold on key techniques or doubles partner options yet, but see what happens.
^ Replace Ike with Mewtwo.
Also why does forward throw only do 10% damage to Jigglypuff? I think that the throw hitboxes aren't big enough.
Cross post from the Ike boards:
I want someone good at Ike to write this up to add into the introduction; a short but sweet overview of a character in this format:
For example, difficulty would be how hard the character is to use, easy/intermediate/hard/very hard. Defensive power would probably mention above average weight, counter etc. Approach strength would probably say something about how few characters have an answer to a well spaced fair. idk I'm throwing things out there. For reference: http://iplaywinner.com/roll-tvc/
I'm not sold on key techniques or doubles partner options yet, but see what happens.
^ Replace Ike with Mewtwo.
Also why does forward throw only do 10% damage to Jigglypuff? I think that the throw hitboxes aren't big enough.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
You could do what I do with moves that have Frame Speed Mods. I use the color overlay command so that when the FSM ends, the character is overlaid with a color and then I terminate the color overlay after the FSM is over. I assume you could easily do this with hover so that when he is hovering, Mewtwo has a color overlay and make the color overlay go away after the hover is entirely over.
This is a cool idea, I was originally thinking of just modifying M2's falling speed and acceleration rate, which also should theoretically show me when hover ends.
or I could use a metal box
omg genius
Flush 5
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2006
- Messages
- 73
If you do an aerial while hovering, say a dair to hit the top of opponent's shield with the sweetspot, and let go of the jump button before falling to the floor so that technically you aren't hovering when you land, do you still get the 5 frame landing lag or does it not count as a HC aerial?
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
CeLL
Smash Lord
I am sure that somebody's already thought this, or maybe it's common knowledge, but since it's not posted here, I'm going to say it.
Are the stickers weird because they're actually for Lucario's attacks?
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Yep! They are editable, but the PMBR probably decided not to edit 'em since the Subspace Emissary doesn't work yet!
iamanobody
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2014
- Messages
- 11
i think it would be useful to a lot of people if you put a little more information in the OP. for example, how shield stun is calculated/how it relates to dmg, perhaps the shield stun of moves, and most importantly the total duration of moves(is there some reason this isn't there?). recovery frames would be nice, but if you have both the total duration and active frames you can figure that out yourself. i don't mean to sound ungrateful, this is a lot of useful information already. i appreciate the hard work.
what i am curious about at this moment is, what is the static difference(frame advantage) on auto-cancelled nair(assuming you hit the first autocancel frame) on block? i assume it's the same as the frame advantage calculated above for hover cancel(-2)? i imagine there is at least enough time to get a dodge off before a shield grab, and probably enough time to get off a dtilt or jab if you're behind them.
i'm also curious about the simple static difference on aerial nair. let's say you do a full jump nair; the attack ends just before you hit the ground. is there little enough frame disadvantage so that wavelanding away or through their shield is going to help? what about simply air dodging away/through their shield into the ground(as in, for the actual dodge)?
also, are there any recovery frames after nair's last autocancel frame? it seems like there is simply no lag as long as the last attack comes out in the air.
other things i am curious about are what shadow ball charge's frame advantage is(on block), what the cancel's recovery time is, and what shadow ball shot's frame advantage is at point blank at the various charge levels(especially min and max, but i'm curious about all of them since they are all useful at different percents). even if it varies based on distance, time, or charge level, i'm sure there is useful information there, especially since it's seeming like autocancel nair>shadow ball charge is probably a viable option for shield pressure from behind.
what i am curious about at this moment is, what is the static difference(frame advantage) on auto-cancelled nair(assuming you hit the first autocancel frame) on block? i assume it's the same as the frame advantage calculated above for hover cancel(-2)? i imagine there is at least enough time to get a dodge off before a shield grab, and probably enough time to get off a dtilt or jab if you're behind them.
i'm also curious about the simple static difference on aerial nair. let's say you do a full jump nair; the attack ends just before you hit the ground. is there little enough frame disadvantage so that wavelanding away or through their shield is going to help? what about simply air dodging away/through their shield into the ground(as in, for the actual dodge)?
also, are there any recovery frames after nair's last autocancel frame? it seems like there is simply no lag as long as the last attack comes out in the air.
other things i am curious about are what shadow ball charge's frame advantage is(on block), what the cancel's recovery time is, and what shadow ball shot's frame advantage is at point blank at the various charge levels(especially min and max, but i'm curious about all of them since they are all useful at different percents). even if it varies based on distance, time, or charge level, i'm sure there is useful information there, especially since it's seeming like autocancel nair>shadow ball charge is probably a viable option for shield pressure from behind.
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Total duration of the move is the FAF
iamanobody
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2014
- Messages
- 11
oh, alright. i assumed that included IASA frames or perhaps was not the true "recovery" of the move(for example, with Roy's Dtilt I would have thought that the FAF listed his first IASA frame and not the first frame he could, say, put up his shield--if i recall correctly he can act early but would have to dash or something before shielding). sorry for the wall of text and apologies if what i said came off as rude. i understand getting and inputting all this data is a lot of work. thank you again.
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xXSciophobiaXx
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2008
- Messages
- 131
As someone a little unfamiliar with how to interpret frame data, can one of you guys check to see if I understand whats going on here?
So as an example. Mewtwo and Ike.
Mewtwo hover cancels a Fair on ike's shield, this leaves him with +4 frame advantage, this accounts for both the hover cancel landing of 5 frames, and the shieldstun on ike, which would be 9 frames? Q: is there a one? two? three? frames in there where mewtwo must be airborne and landing (IE performed Fair and is now hovering toward ground? If you perform it perfectly are there any frames where mewtwo must continue his hover to the ground?
On landing Fair on shield, if the the frame advantage is +4, then mewtwo can startup dtilt (fastest hitbox) to hit on frame 5. Suppose ike tries to shield grab, this will have its hitbox active on frame 7. 4+7 = 11, so this means ikes grab will certainly not land, correct? Does this mean mewtwo should connect with a down tilt on ike? Will it hit ike's shield if Ike does not perform a frame perfect attempted shield grab? is the length of time it takes to drop shield for a grab taken into account for frame data (IE frame 1 of a shield grab, you are unshielded)?
So as an example. Mewtwo and Ike.
Mewtwo hover cancels a Fair on ike's shield, this leaves him with +4 frame advantage, this accounts for both the hover cancel landing of 5 frames, and the shieldstun on ike, which would be 9 frames? Q: is there a one? two? three? frames in there where mewtwo must be airborne and landing (IE performed Fair and is now hovering toward ground? If you perform it perfectly are there any frames where mewtwo must continue his hover to the ground?
On landing Fair on shield, if the the frame advantage is +4, then mewtwo can startup dtilt (fastest hitbox) to hit on frame 5. Suppose ike tries to shield grab, this will have its hitbox active on frame 7. 4+7 = 11, so this means ikes grab will certainly not land, correct? Does this mean mewtwo should connect with a down tilt on ike? Will it hit ike's shield if Ike does not perform a frame perfect attempted shield grab? is the length of time it takes to drop shield for a grab taken into account for frame data (IE frame 1 of a shield grab, you are unshielded)?
Zimflare
Smash Apprentice
Sorry this will sound super nooby and for some reason I am having a hard time grasping this right now but for frame advantage is it good to have negative numbers or positive numbers? Like is it in your advantage or disadvantage when the number is nagative? And the information shell added are mostly positive but the ones in the frame data are mostly negative. Are you guys, so to speak, using different scales?
Negative is bad. It's the amount of frames that the enemy has to work with to punish you.
Zimflare
Smash Apprentice
So aerials are good for shield pressure? And are the block advantages for the aerials in relation on hit or in relation to FAF? (I know this was not your information but I am just asking if you know)
Zimflare
Smash Apprentice
By the way thanks for replying so fast.
WhiteCrow
Smash Journeyman
Does anyone have the actual hitboxes for Mewtwo or am I just blind and they were already posted?
ViewtifulHoe242
Smash Journeyman
whats up with mewtwo's ridiculous grab?
i've seen and then replicated situations where the opponent is behind me and i still get the standing grab. that isn't cool, atleast melee marth would get you if you were infront of him.
i've seen and then replicated situations where the opponent is behind me and i still get the standing grab. that isn't cool, atleast melee marth would get you if you were infront of him.
CeLL
Smash Lord
Marth and Roy are the only characters in Melee who can't grab behind them.
ViewtifulHoe242
Smash Journeyman
oh cool thanks, still dont care, still doesnt affect my opinion on P:m mewtwos grab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCjB3TK8kt8
check out this video at 7:20 and 12:12. thats more than a little stupid, in addition to the ridiculously good range and safety on his up tilt up air and back air.
CeLL
Smash Lord
Again, Roy and Marth are the only characters who can't do this. Not really imbalanced since literally 95% of the characters in the game can do the exact same thing.
tehmarkysparky
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2014
- Messages
- 6
How long does Mewtwos shadowball leave the person in block stun for if anyone knows? Doesn't seem to be in the chart, just says variable which isn't very useful.
LydianAlchemist
Smash Apprentice
He didn't say anything about it being balanced or not.
It was that it doesn't make sense to be able to grab people behind you with a standing grab.
It's counter intuitive design.
Making the entire cast able to do thing might make thing balanced by definition but does not mean that thing isn't ridiculous.
I think the point he was making is that its ridiculous because its unbelievable. It's like Ness's Yo Yo Glitch.
Doesn't matter if everyone could do it, if it's counterintuitive.
IMO that is.
A 'solution' would be to change the character animations so they they extend arms on both sides of them, conveying to the player that their character is able to grab from both sides.
CeLL
Smash Lord
Perhaps, but then it should be brought up on the general forum, rather than Mewtwo's. Also, if he's not talking about balance, why would he mention that the ranges on utilt, uair, and bair are so good, too?
LydianAlchemist
Smash Apprentice
Ah I see. You make good points. Thats what I get for skimming.
only reason I'm in this thread haha. I keep checking. can't seem to find them myself.
Darkoness21
Smash Cadet
What's the frame data for PowerShielding?
1-4
its universal
its universal
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
There's more to it than that tho. Frames 1 to 4 are when the opponent's hitbox has to come into contact with your powershield bubble. An oversight caused MewTwo's PS bubble to be exceptionally large so moves can be in that area for a longer period of time before mewtwo initiates the shield, giving him a bigger window to powershield based on the movement of the incoming attack. For projectile reflection with powershield, the window is only frames 1-2, but the rest of the above still applies.
So what you're saying is mewtwo's window is longer? I've not heard of this.
InfinityCollision
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
- Messages
- 1,245
Something like that?
http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2ek0qn/why_is_it_so_easy_to_powershield_with_mewtwo/
The timing is the same, but the physical space in which he can execute that action is larger... which still effectively works out to a longer window in practice, because he can initiate the powershield sooner than other characters or at the same time as they would.
http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2ek0qn/why_is_it_so_easy_to_powershield_with_mewtwo/
The timing is the same, but the physical space in which he can execute that action is larger... which still effectively works out to a longer window in practice, because he can initiate the powershield sooner than other characters or at the same time as they would.
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
That's just... Do people really not know how this works?
Let me
Explain
Ignore the not perfectly round shield, but basically if a hitbox (the orange thing) enters that green area within the 1-4 frames, the move will be powershielded.
I know that the reddit thread linked above mentions a powershield value, but for whatever reason I've never heard of that, lol.
I mean, it's based on the shield size on the first couple of frames, so maybe they're talking about the characters starting minimum shield size being humungous?
That's just... Do people really not know how this works?
Let me
Explain
Ignore the not perfectly round shield, but basically if a hitbox (the orange thing) enters that green area within the 1-4 frames, the move will be powershielded.
I know that the reddit thread linked above mentions a powershield value, but for whatever reason I've never heard of that, lol.
I mean, it's based on the shield size on the first couple of frames, so maybe they're talking about the characters starting minimum shield size being humungous?
TheGravyTrain
Smash Ace
I know this was a long time ago, but what is the frame data after a power shield. Is it all the same stats as a normal OoS option or can you immediately drop shield and walk/run/smash/etc. I think its normal OoS with no shield stun and Yoshi parrying is messing with my head...
Also, do you have an order that you are updating these threads? Sartron has a list in all his threads showing the order he is updating and was curious if you had a list as well.
It just cancels the shield drop animation.
You still suffer shieldstun.
Also I'm not really updating these because Smash 4 is a very high priority sorry.
Plebiscuit
Smash Cadet
Understandable. It'd still be great to have a current version of this information available. I don't have BrawlBox (assuming that's how you gathered your data) but I'm willing to learn it. Would anyone else be willing to undertake a group effort at data gathering?