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Metal Discussion Thread.

Dorsey

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i'll serve as genre police for a sec ;)

the _foundation_ of metal was set by led zeppelin, of course. As a following act, bands like black sabbath, judas priest, and iron maiden continued this role until finally, metal was created by 4 bands all within the same time period. These 4 bands, that defined "metal", are slayer, metallica, anthrax, and megadeth. Of course, metal then later took a slightly different definition and this genre was coined "thrash", however the change wasn't significant. The songs were still written and organized like thrash metal except the fast rhythm was toned down somewhat.

Also, I gotta point out that the label "metal" has nothing to do with vocals. I, an avid metal guitarist, base very little of my taste on how well a dude can scream. Vocals are an instrument too though, and if I listen to someone BECAUSE of their vocals, they should ACTUALLY have a good voice. But what I'm getting to is that bands that scream and hit heavy DROP TUNING(the newblet way to play metal, way easier to hit chords but sounds worse...) chords are not metal, in any way, shape, or form. It's a totally different chord progression and style. That's "hardcore". There's actually a stronger correlation between metal, rock, and blues than there is metal and hardcore... But, not ALL hardcore lacks guitar theory and performance, just about 95% :) Architects is a hardcore band from the u.k.... their guitarist owns w/ tech. skill and song writing. Also, usually 'metal-core' bands are bands that use drop tuning, but organize their songs like a standard-tuning metal song....for the most part anyways. This is why hardcore and metal-core are comparable. Consider metal-core as the bridge between metal and hardcore, just as the title suggests.

I'm no fan of avenged sevenfold really ya'll, but the chord progression on all of their songs copies that of all 4 of these bands, especially metallica. (Chord progression can be legally copied, melody cannot). So, you really gotta call avenged sevenfold some kind of nu-metal, even though their style is totally different and even kind of wack.

Anyway, here are a few vids of what I feel exemplify a contemporary definition for metal:

in north america:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnhDVvfGG80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31pMcnqZMo

in europe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InSF9FL86Dc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y51Dodj2EPg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i30KyAYmLq0
^(for those who don't know, nevermore's guitarist aka Jeff Loomis is known as the best guitarist in metal..)

edit: porcupine tree is the **** mask, i like them too. they're a very unique band w/ varied styles though so you can't really place them in a genre.
 

Pengie

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the _foundation_ of metal was set by led zeppelin, of course.
This is completly open to debate. I don't hear an ounce of any metal qualities in Zep's music. If anything Deep Purple is where you could see the first signs of metal with Sabbath being the first band that brought all of the qualities together.

As a following act, bands like black sabbath, judas priest, and iron maiden continued this role until finally, metal was created by 4 bands all within the same time period. These 4 bands, that defined "metal", are slayer, metallica, anthrax, and megadeth. Of course, metal then later took a slightly different definition and this genre was coined "thrash", however the change wasn't significant. The songs were still written and organized like thrash metal except the fast rhythm was toned down somewhat.
By the time that Iron Maiden came out metal was already going strong. By 1980 when they debuted you had all of the Ozzy era Sabbath Albums, the first 4 Judas Priest albums, and you had the first 4 Motorhead albums.

You also mention the "Big 4" Thrash bands. All these bands did was make Thrash more popular. As far as influence goes Metallica was the first thrash band, while Slayer have had a more noticable influence on metal with it's more extreme subgenres. Megadeth were one of the best thrash bands and deserve all of the praise but Anthrax had absolutely no influence on any band. If you were to make a list of bands who had an influence in metal there would be a lot more bands that get in before Anthrax namely Overkill and Exodus.

Anyway, here are a few vids of what I feel exemplify a contemporary definition for metal:

in north america:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnhDVvfGG80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31pMcnqZMo

in europe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InSF9FL86Dc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y51Dodj2EPg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i30KyAYmLq0
^(for those who don't know, nevermore's guitarist aka Jeff Loomis is known as the best guitarist in metal..)
You only show the mainstream side of metal. The US and Canada have some incredible Tech Death bands like Origin, and Nile, while Europe has the French and Norwegian Black metal scenes an well as a lot Blackened Death Metal bands.

And lol at Jeff Loomis being the anywhere near the best guitarist. That title is reserved for Chuck Schuldiner.

Also, The Metal Archives have literally every metal band in them. If a band is metal they are on the archives.
 

Gerbil

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Location
Columbus, GA
Metallica
Rammstein
Rhapsody
Children of Bodom
Lamb of God
Black Sabbath


Linkin'........... just joking XD.
 

Hawks go Caw

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I'm with the train of thought that Led Zeppelin had nothing to do with the sound of metal. They have crazy psychedelic blues folk rock stuff. Then they have things like Boogie with Stu. But I never hear any metal in their music. I think the argument goes that they started the metal mentality or lifestyle with going all out and living crazily or whatever. But I don't really care much for that even if they did.

The Mighty Led Zeppelin is probably my favorite classic rock band. Tool was one of my favorite current rock bands, but they've fallen a bit to the wayside. I don't think they're very metal though. They seem too artsy for it.

Guilty Gear music . . . .
 

Master Raven

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Led Zeppelin certainly had an influence on metal but I don't believe they're actually metal.

When you listen to a certain genre long enough then you can begin you differentiate the sounds more easily.
 

Pengie

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Atlanta, GA
Arsis mainstream? Lol
To be fair I only looked at the first link which is certainly a shining example of mainstream crap. The Arsis link was pretty good albeit Melodeath has never been my thing. Plus all he linked was Melodeath which is in no way representative of how metal has evolved through the years.
 

Dorsey

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I never said that led zeppelin was metal. I was hoping that people could get my analogy of setting the foundation for something, which is why I said the definition of metal was set by the first 4 thrash bands, which ARE the first 4 thrash bands, that is unless you get your information from wikipedia which just lists debut albums...(i searched the term you used, "big four" and it seems as wikipedia has coined it...). Anyway, I wasn't even saying that either. I wasn't talking about over-all influence on metal, else I would have said exodus, kreator, testament, etc., and most importantly NOT overkill. Even later metal bands like annihilator in the late 80s early 90s had a significant influence. btw, i'm seeing kreator and exodus this month.

I also didn't count judas priest, iron maiden, or black sabbath(motorhead either) as metal in my post. You just assumed that, like above. I was just saying they were a pre-

oh and schuldiner or death is NOTHING compared to jeff loomis or nevermore. I am familiar with ALL of death's songs and you have got to be kidding me. All death is known for is the crazy rhythm riffs and measure switch-ups with time (6/4, to 7/8; back to 6/4, etc etc) Which needless to say I play in my sleep, just like many other guitarists. Loomis is a much better song writer as well, which is obvious, being that his riffs sound better, his leads are better, and his solo work is WAY, WAY better than schuldiner. BUT, I can understand you being a big schuldiner fan being that he is local for you. I would be stoked if I grew up having an easy opportunity to see him live.

..but still. Chuck write something even close to this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0vctp35IkA

no.

Nile plays fast. Sub-par song writing, horrible vocals. When you add in that playing fast is easy, it somewhat discourages me from listening to them.

I haven't listened to much origin before, but they seem to zz me just as much as nile does. That's not even true music, imo.. it's just a display of technical skill. Those repetitive speed picking, alternate picking / downward sweeps(not sweep picking.. he only goes down) aren't too hard..oh and the always-moving camera that constantly switches up angles to make you think like they're playing faster is lame too. To me, a good metal band should exemplify both awesome song writing ability and skill with their instruments, and vocals are an instrument too.

I actually consider Arsis half-way mainstream.. I chose them and All that remains as examples because they are kind of mainstream / familiar to more people who would read it. Also, both bands have insane amounts of individual skill in addition to good song switing (ATR: guitar, vocals, decent drums) (arsis: insanely good drums, guitar).

And I also never said that I was showing how metal evolved... lol. I just gave an example of what I thought was a contemporary generalized definition of the genre metal, generalized as in considering more opinions than myself as well. Anyway.....
 

Pengie

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I never said that led zeppelin was metal. I was hoping that people could get my analogy of setting the foundation for something, which is why I said the definition of metal was set by the first 4 thrash bands, which ARE the first 4 thrash bands, that is unless you get your information from wikipedia which just lists debut albums...(i searched the term you used, "big four" and it seems as wikipedia has coined it...). Anyway, I wasn't even saying that either. I wasn't talking about over-all influence on metal, else I would have said exodus, kreator, testament, etc., and most importantly NOT overkill. Even later metal bands like annihilator in the late 80s early 90s had a significant influence. btw, i'm seeing kreator and exodus this month.
I see what you're saying i guess I misunderstood it. Since the rest of this argument is mostly opinions let's agree to disagree :).

I would kill to see Kreator live. Not so much for Exodus though, Rob Dukes just doesn't have the energy that
Baloff had and I'm not a fan of the Souza era stuff.

Anyone else like Sepultura. I've always found Beneath the Remains to be one of the best thrash albums.
 

Dorsey

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YES. long live kreator... actually my favorite metal band. I tried not to talk about them much because i can't help to show a little bias towards them.

and yeah, sepultura owns. I think i recall listening to their newest cd a few months ago and being a little disappointed though, for them. can't remember for sure though..
 

Pengie

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Yeah Sep's stuff has been pretty weak ever since Arise. After Arise they started doing groove which was really stupid and then they went into an almost Kornish sound with Roots. Ever since the Cavalera's left you can't even really call them Sepultura.
 

Pyrostormer

Smash Lord
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Hickory, North Carolina
I love At The Gates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds7zerWMYdU
GO!

Never again
On your forcefed illusions to choke
You feed off my pain
Feed off my life

There won't be another dawn
We will reap as we have sown

Always the same
My tired eyes have seen enough
Of all your lies
My hate is blind

Slaughter of the soul
Suicidal final art
Children - born of sin
Tear your soul apart

Never again
My tired eyes have seen enough
Of all your lies
My hate is blind

Slaughter of the soul
Suicidal final art
Children - born of sin
Tear your soul apart
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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I saw Harold and Kumar last night. Lol that cop "whatever happened to good old names like Dave and Jim" rofl. Racer X is sick
 

Dorsey

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ahh yeah, sonata arctica put out a few talented albums. Can't say that i'm into stuff that seemingly sounds like viking power metal though anymore :) They do have some pretty insane **** though... I'll have to learn the entering scale on this one when I get off work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pioL1uaGJ4M

Dream Theater is awesome, but I've always enjoyed john petrucci's solo work much, much more. One of my favorite guitarists by far, as well as other G3 crew members.

At the gates is ok. Over-all, an above average band, but considering the company that they keep in sweden, a long, long list of talented bands not to mention in neighboring countries.. they're rarely ever the best act at the show.

Racer x is cool, they actually just had their first USA show in almost a decade at this year's NAMM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2ktWKguW5g

Here is god himself playing at last year's NAMM though....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0vctp35IkA

^insane combintation of both skill and song writing...7-strings are so sick
 

Master Raven

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I've been into black metal just recently. I especially love good industrial black metal.
 

Zoro

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i used to like them alot

pengie is so cool his taste in music is good , so old school lol
pengie do you buy your albums?

sodom is good
raven i liked intestine they are pretty tight

SOOOO i got a story
i bought a dvd for my mom a year ago and she never used it so i returned it to target and got 20 dollars store credit so i bought 2 cds cuz there were no good movies i wanted to buy ( who buys games homebrew channel and r4).

first of all this is freaking target if they had weather report or mars volta or something i mighta gotten that but there was nothing else that looked interesting so i picked the only real metal albums i could see devil wears prada and job for a cowboy the newest albums.

Devil wears prada- im probably never gonna listen to them again
Job for a cowboy- worst excuse for death metal ever. Its the only death metal album i have ever seen at a target or walmart, it was in the sales rack at TARGET for 7.50 should of been a big hint.




My contribution:
Gorod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HsPliVpT1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjT5kgJiHyU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DjYzgArgUM

I like em better than necrophagist and necro is one of my favorite all time bands
great tech death band

and because i love metal fusion (jazz fusion)
alarum-
http://www.myspace.com/alarummusic
 

Pengie

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I would definitely buy albums if I could find a store that sells metal albums. If I can't find one I'll probably start ordering them from Amazon or some online distributors.

Yeah I like more old school bands because most of the modern bands out seem so lifeless. Like for me tech death was really cool the first time I heard it, but it got boring really fast. Not to mention most of my favorite bands haven't put out good albums in more than ten years. I really hope the new Megadeth album is really good though. The single Headcrusher made me hopeful for a good album.

And yes Devil Wears Prada and Blowjob for a Cow*** are horrible.
 

Zoro

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fye sells death metal and black metal
so does virgin megastore if it is still there

but amazon is mad cheap for most albums

I like to physically have em
of course i dont have nearly enough money to buy all the stuff i want but every now and then i buy something

alot of tech death is soulless one band i know for sure that most people agree with on that is psycroptic. Not all of its bad though.
 

TEECO

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Best ****ing band in the world

Other good bands:

Darkest Hour
As I Lay Dying
Parkway Drive
Unearth

EDIT: Not to familiar to the heavy HEAVY **** so thanks for this thread lol
 

Zoro

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Orlando, FL

Best ****ing band in the world

Other good bands:

Darkest Hour
As I Lay Dying
Parkway Drive
Unearth

EDIT: Not to familiar to the heavy HEAVY **** so thanks for this thread lol
darkest hour is pretty good for being metal core
 

Dorsey

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lol nice post pengie. It's a good one.. It's hard to decide on a best thrash album. So many different kinds of good thrash......

Kreator is the _only_ band that in my personal preference tops slayer's aggressive, powerful style of thrash. So of course, the first album I have to mention in response to yours is Coma of Souls ;)

Ahh.. actually I won't even mention anyone else. Kreator + Slayer > all haha. Any other album I'm thinking of currently isn't quite good enough to mention or is too over-rated / generic to mention... so i won't.

edit:

Anyone check out jeff loomis's solo album that came out a little over a year ago? It's called 'Zero order phase'... It's by far the most original, chaotic, and skilled metal instrumental album i've ever heard...... Wow, that guy is good.. I'm considering buying his sig. 7-string just so I can play his songs lol.
 

-ACE-

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TEECO I used to be into Trivium.. really liked Ascendancy and even the one after that although their style changed. I also saw them open for In Flames once at the NorVa (Norfolk, VA).. it was a really good show, drummer is my fav. member of the band.
 
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