Metagame Development Thread. New thing to read!

[toobusytocare]

You warios should check out Krystedez (Goes by spectrum000 on the forums) he is 100% legit and he MAINS bike and SECONDS big tire! lol

lol hes also a wifi player

 

[PhantomX]

He plays offline now, though. Won some tournament recently, as well (in the MW)

 

[shaSLAM]

why are you scrubs so intent on hiding techniques from other players.

what happened to the word "community" ?

nice, fiction, real pro of you...

this upsets me enough to actually call people out. we discuss this on AL thread all the time.

nice community we got here, huh?

why do we even have anything but tourney results and social threads on smashboards anymore?

grow up people.

edit: PX please dont infract me again, this is just my opnion.
someone please prove me wrong instead.

 

[PhantomX]

You don't get infractions for posting opinions, just for double/triple posting, lol.

Also, I've shared pretty much everything I know at one point or another.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

You realize that those same people play TONS of offline tournaments, all the time? WiFi can be a supplement for offline, but being just an online player doesn't help you, ESPECIALLY if you play Wario.

Maybe, I'm not just don't advocate for wifi. What my point is mainly that wifi can be used to help you improve/get better. If you don't go to tournies often then wifi is the next best thing you can get. You get to play different players with different skill levels. If there weren't so many good online players who also place well offline I'd be more incline to believe the negative opinion about wifi. Another huge key for this is Sam Boner used to be considered a joke wifi only player till he top 3'd at a Hobo. But eh whatever I guess.

Wifi is for lolz and top players usually go silly characters or sandbag hard online
wifi will never be taken seriously

ALSO pwneroni said what i was getting at, its a trap more than anything, but so is every waft set up

I don't think it's for as much LuLz as you think. From what I can see from the AiB ladder the offline pro's use the same characters that they use offline.

If you play wifi seriously, I'm pretty sure you're a toon link.

Disagree with this logic ZoMg TLink Final D spam projectiles =/.

Wifi is a ****ing joke.

I seriously doubt that. Wifi is good it can make you better. It can help you learn match ups. The lag can be bad at times and you can have ****ty connections with some players however, you can still play really good players/pros on wifi. The experience you can get from wifi is a lot better than just not playing at all.

 

[PhantomX]

Samboner got 3rd at a tiny HOBO that had like 5 notable players. He doesn't go to the big tournaments, nor does he go to things often, so he always has the novelty effect.

WiFi is better than nothing, for sure, but that doesn't mean it's good.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Samboner got 3rd at a tiny HOBO that had like 5 notable players. He doesn't go to the big tournaments, nor does he go to things often, so he always has the novelty effect.

WiFi is better than nothing, for sure, but that doesn't mean it's good.

I don't understand if I play a top player in my region on wifi or offline what's the difference?

 

[Pwneroni]

I main Ike on Wifi, if that says anything about me. I've used Ike a couple times in tournament, and every time I totally caught the opponent by surprise and beat them LOL!

PX, I never have really read forums extensively, I mainly just make up my own stuff. Guess I'm behind the curve a little bit haha, my bad my bad.

I agree that the bike and tires are the next step for the metagame, I'll try to focus on that from now on. Whenever I advance my Wario, I always do it in steps. For a long time, it was not to get grabbed, then it was bite, then grabbing instead of forward smashing, and most recently using Nair more. I LOVE NAIR!!

I have experimented with tires a little bit. Z catching them and throwing them downwards in the air creates a little wall that you can use to pressure your opponents. You can start a combo with the tire hit, or keep yourself from getting punished by pushing them into the tire, which gives them a bit more shield stun. The bike itself can be thrown straight up to surprise hit people recovering high, or forcing them to airdodge so you can clap/fart them (also works with the tires, but they are faster and don't put up as much pressure).

TheRealBobman wrote a huuuuuuuuge guide on how to use the bike in combat, everyone should check it out. That's where I got a lot of this stuff.

 

[SnackAttack]

Link please?

 

[Juno McGrath]

I don't understand if I play a top player in my region on wifi or offline what's the difference?

Your not, so i guess we could never know for sure.

But when i asked ally at pound if he takes wifi seriously he laughed in my face.

so...

 

[Dynomite]

Pwneroni... I've been saying nair is Wario's most versatile and abusable move and that everyone needs to use it more for over a year now. You guys need to step it up!

Nair is one of those moves that can **** people's **** if they are not too shield happy. oh and sonic. Now Up tilt, Dtilt and upB. Those moves have potential! up tilt lasts a while and is not easily punished, Dtilt should be used in a match, it sets up and people normally airdodge right after it so read. UpB gives like 20 damage when fresh and it normally is because we never use it. Im not kidding this moves is legit. I almost never get punished for it (i dont spam it obv) and if i do get punished i only take a quick/fast airial and get like 10 damage for it. ALSO the airial mobility is amazing after used. I wouldnt suggest doing this against a mk unless you get into a good situation for it, but against people like DK, D3, IC, snake, idk lots of people. Just if you know that you are gonna get punished or if its likely, dont be dumb land on a platform or under one so you dont get grab released or chain grabbed.

I'm the best Wario in Antarctica

you must fight a lot of penguins

You don't get infractions for posting opinions, just for double/triple posting, lol.

Also, I've shared pretty much everything I know at one point or another.

True. PhantomX is the most openly spoken about wario stuff on the boards. If we have a question he answers. Even if its about in dept moves and secrets he has with that move. Most top warios do not look for questions and answer in full detail. Its mainly just PhantX

 

[PhantomX]

I've been finding a lot more uses for utilt, it has rapetastic priority and the ending frames seem to legitimately combo into followups. Dtilt I VERY RARELY use, mostly near the edge (I've popped a nair planking GW off the edge with it before), b/c I tend to find other moves more usable than it most of the time. I will occasionally do random up bs, but that move still has a pretty bad risk to reward ratio, as it gets SDId here.

Utilt and Dash Attack are the new things I'm messing around with/incorporating more. Nair is great even against opponents that shield... it paritcularly ***** ICs.

 

[Dynomite]

I've been finding a lot more uses for utilt, it has rapetastic priority and the ending frames seem to legitimately combo into followups. Dtilt I VERY RARELY use, mostly near the edge (I've popped a nair planking GW off the edge with it before), b/c I tend to find other moves more usable than it most of the time. I will occasionally do random up bs, but that move still has a pretty bad risk to reward ratio, as it gets SDId here.

Utilt and Dash Attack are the new things I'm messing around with/incorporating more. Nair is great even against opponents that shield... it paritcularly ***** ICs.

Yeah upB can be risky, but im not going to write a wall about that now. Up tilt, yes its a good move, sometimes overlooked and unappreciated. This move should open some doors in the future for wario. as for people shielding up tilt, i dont think its a good idea to challenge shield when you are coming down (what i was thinking about in my last post, fastfall nair) but rising it is ****. especially against ice climbers it separates them easily.

Dtilt: pop people off the ledge, hmm i think you can get punished for Dtilting there, but it might work. I was thinking about a match of mine against a d3 and i accidentally dtilted instead of dsmashed (btw, dsmash is really good for punishing, it racks up damage and doesn't stale out your fsmash and it proves wario can dance) and it popped him up and put him in a bad situation.

Dash attack: this move should be used more. I really think one of the best ways to use dash attack is to challenge shields. "wow what is dyno thinking?! they will punish you like crazy once they see that move hit their shield having so much ending lag" yes, i mainly expect people to see the dash attack hitting the shield and drop it trying to punish. If you buffer it, you can pull out an up smash which deals some alright damage and gets them in the air. not to mention this is wario's fastest move as far as frames go so it can be a good move to punish with (maybe even a buffered up smash if they are at low %.) ide like to think of dash attack being the nair of the ground. It comes out in 4 frames, lasts a while, and you have options (nair you can abuse wario's air mobiliby and dash attack you can buffer an up smash) so they are both good moves to use and be safe at the same time.

 

[PhantomX]

Dsmash shouldn't even be used at all until the opponent is in the 80s or so. That way even if you hit with the second/weak hit, it will send them far enough away to where you can stop dancing and don't get punished for it.

 

[Dynomite]

Dsmash shouldn't even be used at all until the opponent is in the 80s or so. That way even if you hit with the second/weak hit, it will send them far enough away to where you can stop dancing and don't get punished for it.

oh yes for sure. I normally try to use it around that health and against after they recover. ive punished falco before with down smash predicting and challenging phantasm. I think i got hit but so did falco. doesnt matter he took x3 more damage hehe

^^ not the smartest thing to do, but it was one of those in the moment what ifs.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Your not, so i guess we could never know for sure.

But when i asked ally at pound if he takes wifi seriously he laughed in my face.

so...

With out knowing who i've played online and offline that's pretty obnoxious of you but whatever. It's a typical response from the average smash player I should be used to ignorance stupidity and this unexplainable elitist attitude people have. Come to VC on the 27th or Apex in August then talk to me other wise **** off.

 

[PhantomX]

ATTN EVERYONE

Mk doing a nair while holding the big tire looks extremely ****** and hilarious

I think it's awesome when he does Nado while holding a tire.

 

[SnackAttack]

Guise. don't argue!

 

[Pwneroni]

The only time I use dash attack is to surprise someone not expecting it, usually out of shield. It is tied with Wario's dtilt as his fastest ground move, and interestingly it has a bit of a lasting hitbox, so it can punish spotdodges.

 

[SnackAttack]

Pwneroni, do you have the link to Bob's Bike Guide?

 

[Pwneroni]

For sure! It's just on the AiB Wario boards lol.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=39705

More specifically, the bike guide I was talking about is Part 3 of the Wario Guide REDUX.

 

[Juno McGrath]

With out knowing who i've played online and offline that's pretty obnoxious of you but whatever. It's a typical response from the average smash player I should be used to ignorance stupidity and this unexplainable elitist attitude people have. Come to VC on the 27th or Apex in August then talk to me other wise **** off.

Lol im just saying your the kind of person who if you beat anyone Notable on wifi youd come to the wario boards and be posting about it for days. So im sorry if you took sam boner or some other "pro" to his last stock or something.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Lol im just saying your the kind of person who if you beat anyone Notable on wifi youd come to the wario boards and be posting about it for days. So im sorry if you took sam boner or some other "pro" to his last stock or something.

Just out of curiosity how has any post have I made in defense of wifi or my posting in general can you come to such a conclusion? What indication from my post warrants these assumptions? I really do not understand how me saying you can get valuable EXP from wifi turns into me bragging about who I've played on wifi? You're barking up the wrong tree dawgie so I'll kindly ask you to back off with that non sense.

 

[PhantomX]

Dang... this is getting exciting. Legendary and Snapple about to pull out their e-glocks.

 

[Juno McGrath]

lol no im not going to argue when clearly everyone but almost agrees with me.

im not going to argue with this egotistical nuisance over wi-try.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Dang... this is getting exciting. Legendary and Snapple about to pull out their e-glocks.

*sigh* if I only had a real one. =/

 

[PhantomX]

Then you would be TOO black to play Wario, and would have to start maining Falco.

 

[Pwneroni]

I'll settle this. Wifi is good for matchup experience, and generally makes you a better player overall. However, it is not as good experience as real life tournaments.

There, now stfu.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Then you would be TOO black to play Wario, and would have to start maining Falco.

LoL ObV.

@Pwneroni i'm content with that.

 

[leatherhead93]

Wario is gay to use online >_<
WHen you use him offline its like that 1000 pound weight is lifted..............ahhhhhhh bliss.

 

[leatherhead93]

Also i know alot of wario mains are black. Weird cause i always thought the stereotype was that we were jewish *shrugs*

 

[Dynomite]

Wario is gay to use online >_<
WHen you use him offline its like that 1000 pound weight is lifted..............ahhhhhhh bliss.

why not train with 1000 pound weights? o.O

Also i know alot of wario mains are black. Weird cause i always thought the stereotype was that we were jewish *shrugs*

Jewish WDF? i always though it was mexicans, but im not gonna get into that.

 

[leatherhead93]

I dont like traveling much to my fellow brawl buddies houses cause they live 2 hours away from me. Major lazy johns. I only travel for tournies. so i use wifi every now and then so i get matchup help and i practice combos on the cpu in training mode :D

 

[shaSLAM]

i thought wario mains were mexican.
im mexican.

falcos are the black ones.

and cool, px. i need to read more of your posts.

 

[Pwneroni]

HOW I USE NAIR!!! This could revolutionize Wario's metagame.

When I use an aerial, a lot of the time I use Nair right before I hit the ground. Not only does it look cool, but It covers your options. Instead of airdodging which leaves you open, it throws out a quick hitbox, and has only a tiny bit of landing lag (barely more than just landing).

Also, when the opponent is recovering Nair is awesome at killing them off of the side or just plain gimping them. If you throw out a Nair when the opponent is at high percents, it can easily kill them. I never see any Warios do this except me!

Just be careful of getting gimped yourself

 

[PhantomX]

HOW I USE NAIR!!! This could revolutionize Wario's metagame.

When I use an aerial, a lot of the time I use Nair right before I hit the ground. Not only does it look cool, but It covers your options. Instead of airdodging which leaves you open, it throws out a quick hitbox, and has only a tiny bit of landing lag (barely more than just landing).

Also, when the opponent is recovering Nair is awesome at killing them off of the side or just plain gimping them. If you throw out a Nair when the opponent is at high percents, it can easily kill them. I never see any Warios do this except me!

Just be careful of getting gimped yourself

Don't say things like this in boards that I frequent, or I will kill you >: (

You still have some stuffs to learn, like Invincible strong nair off the edge, and do a nair over the opponent and then ff onto them as it's ending so that it's auto-canceled as your'e reaching the ground and can do whatever immediately.

 

[Pwneroni]

Don't say things like this in boards that I frequent, or I will kill you >: (

You still have some stuffs to learn, like Invincible strong nair off the edge, and do a nair over the opponent and then ff onto them as it's ending so that it's auto-canceled as your'e reaching the ground and can do whatever immediately.

Gah, it's hard to explain what I'm talking about lol. No disrespect Phantom X, I've probably watched all of your videos lol. My style is different than yours though!

My style is like... well I would say more risky and aggressive. Hard to explain lol.

Some minutes later...

Okay, I found an example, in your 1st match ag HOBO 16 against Gnes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY9DPPOOi6g), I saw a few examples of instances where I would have used Nair. There are a few Uairs I would have substituted for Nair, but the biggest instance was at 4:51 in the video. Where you tried to roll on and edgehog, I would have dropped and Naired, possibly k.o.ing him, or at least setting it up for an easy edgeguard.

Am I just like discovering it now, when it's been known forever? Tell me if I'm just like a man in the mountains lol.

 

[PhantomX]

You're basically a man on the mountains. Oh, and I saw that vid, that was just an accidental getup, I always go for the nairs in those situations, as I did on the battlefield round

I just try to be careful b/c I have a bad habit of FFing nairs off the edge which leads to my death :\

It's good that you're learning it though, b/c it's one of the most versatile moves in the game.

 

[Pwneroni]

Nair is too good

Another thing I think would make Wario better is the dthrow -> dtilt combo. I haven't been able to pull it off yet, but I haven't really tried in training mode or anything. It would be very useful against Metaknight I think, because it would refresh your moves more and would give you more options that a fthrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UmdbvFiJOE

Thoughts?