JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
cant you see hes laughing to try and cover his fear of facing your fox and falco
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Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO
- Thread starter OverLade
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Oh yes, I see that now
MisterMoo
Smash Journeyman
Yes thats exactly it.... Stop spamming this thread please...
Affinity
Smash Hero
*sigh*... I give up...
Anyway, back on topic, does anybody have good advice on the Wario or Game and Watch matchup?
Anyway, back on topic, does anybody have good advice on the Wario or Game and Watch matchup?
MisterMoo
Smash Journeyman
I'm actually heading to a pretty big tourny next week, and I believe Tink is gonna be there. From what I heard, He has a SICK Wario.
So I'm gonna try to get some friendlies in. ;D
So I'm gonna try to get some friendlies in. ;D
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
G&w
-the G&W will try to approach you with his bair but your tornado has priority over it
-do not let the G&W get you in the air above him because then he will use his uair to uair stall and you wont be able to get down until the G&W wants you to
-they usually follow up a uair stall with an upb and then another attack
-if he grabs you watch out for his dthrow to dsmash. You have to tech his dthrow to escape it
-G&W's nair combos very well and autocancels watch out for it. I think your fair and nair both have higher priority than his nair
-once you get him off the stage he is as good as dead. Use a wall of fairs to kill him and dont let him get back on the stage
-the G&W will try to approach you with his bair but your tornado has priority over it
-do not let the G&W get you in the air above him because then he will use his uair to uair stall and you wont be able to get down until the G&W wants you to
-they usually follow up a uair stall with an upb and then another attack
-if he grabs you watch out for his dthrow to dsmash. You have to tech his dthrow to escape it
-G&W's nair combos very well and autocancels watch out for it. I think your fair and nair both have higher priority than his nair
-once you get him off the stage he is as good as dead. Use a wall of fairs to kill him and dont let him get back on the stage
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Smash Hero
Mach Tornado has priority over it. If you can edit that into your post I'll quote you in the OP.
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
I edited it
Affinity
Smash Hero
i want to add that when attacking a GnW player, his Fair "can" out prioritize your fair, using an Upair in this approach "may" guarantee a hit.
*bump* i r having trouble against a good wario player dunno how to approach >_<
*someone sticky pls =P*
*bump* i r having trouble against a good wario player dunno how to approach >_<
*someone sticky pls =P*
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Smash Hero
Does ANYBODY have good advice on the Wario matchup?
Also, I added a Diddy matchup section for anyone that has info on it.
Also, I added a Diddy matchup section for anyone that has info on it.
UnSaxon51
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Hmm, Diddy is my other main and Wario is one of my secondaries.
Unfortunately, no one else I know plays either of them OR Meta Knight, so I don't have a lot of in-game experience. I'll try testing out some comparisons and see if I can have some info later tonight.
Unfortunately, no one else I know plays either of them OR Meta Knight, so I don't have a lot of in-game experience. I'll try testing out some comparisons and see if I can have some info later tonight.
UnSaxon51
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OK did some research on the Wario matchup.
Some important notes:
- Meta Knight's aerials either cancel or override all of Wario's except for the fat-man's Uair. It's arguably his best kill move, so avoid being above him in the air. Also, Wario has much faster air speed (not including glide) and can maneuver very well. But otherwise, the air game should belong to MK.
- Wario's range is abysmal. MK's sword out ranges all of Wario's moves except for F-tilt, which has a slow enough start time that you should be able to hit him first.
- The shoulder charge (F-smash) has super armor frames and hurts bad if it connects. Avoid it and punish the long recovery time.
- Wario has a lot of problems recovering below the stage, but almost none while above. Always pursue off the stage to cause trouble, but be wary of his bike during recovery.
- There are only 2 moves that Wario can Chomp you out of: Nair (sometimes) and dash attack. Everything else is out of reach.
The long and short of it is that MK has a substantial advantage in this matchup. A Wario player who is good at dodging and predicting will give you some problems, but it'll still be an uphill battle for them.
Some important notes:
- Meta Knight's aerials either cancel or override all of Wario's except for the fat-man's Uair. It's arguably his best kill move, so avoid being above him in the air. Also, Wario has much faster air speed (not including glide) and can maneuver very well. But otherwise, the air game should belong to MK.
- Wario's range is abysmal. MK's sword out ranges all of Wario's moves except for F-tilt, which has a slow enough start time that you should be able to hit him first.
- The shoulder charge (F-smash) has super armor frames and hurts bad if it connects. Avoid it and punish the long recovery time.
- Wario has a lot of problems recovering below the stage, but almost none while above. Always pursue off the stage to cause trouble, but be wary of his bike during recovery.
- There are only 2 moves that Wario can Chomp you out of: Nair (sometimes) and dash attack. Everything else is out of reach.
The long and short of it is that MK has a substantial advantage in this matchup. A Wario player who is good at dodging and predicting will give you some problems, but it'll still be an uphill battle for them.
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Smash Hero
--Updated--
UnSaxon51
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I'd actually really like to play a good MK with my Wario, sort of as a final test of the info I put together.
I don't want to say Wario's a bad character, just that he has some inherent disadvantages against Meta Knight. Plus he's super fun to use. :D
I don't want to say Wario's a bad character, just that he has some inherent disadvantages against Meta Knight. Plus he's super fun to use. :D
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Smash Hero
Anyone have good info on the Diddy match-up? Also the D3 section needs some outside input, if anyone have enough experience.
Once all that gets finished I'll start taking requests: Tell me a character that gives you trouble and I'll put up a section.
Once all that gets finished I'll start taking requests: Tell me a character that gives you trouble and I'll put up a section.
ckm
Smash Journeyman
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g&w is as good as dead when hes off the stage?? woah, thats news to me.
in actuality, he is very hard to gimp. the bad players might use the return to land on the stage rather than sweetspotting the ledge, but dont expect the good ones to do this. "a wall of fairs" isnt gonna work on a good g&w player, unless youre doing something quite spectacular that I don't know about.
Anyone with more specific ideas for how to gimp g&w?
Also, DDD is not exactly the cakewalk that this guide has made him out to be. A good DDD player can be a really tough matchup, even for a skilled MK player. A fully charged Fsmash will kill MK at under 35 percent with DI. His backair will knock you out of shuttle loop when you are returning, and will also clang with glide attack. He can grab you after glide attack, even if you space it right (he can grab you out of the air before you even hit the ground). His reach is longer than yours in just about every way, and his tilts have suprisingly little lag. He has super armor on his up B, and the downward part will spike you if you try to hit him from below. Also, his Dair will beat upair or shuttle loop if placed correctly, as it is disjointed as all hell. Oh, and hes really hard to kill at any reasonable percentage. He can suck you up and kirbycide you as well.
in actuality, he is very hard to gimp. the bad players might use the return to land on the stage rather than sweetspotting the ledge, but dont expect the good ones to do this. "a wall of fairs" isnt gonna work on a good g&w player, unless youre doing something quite spectacular that I don't know about.
Anyone with more specific ideas for how to gimp g&w?
Also, DDD is not exactly the cakewalk that this guide has made him out to be. A good DDD player can be a really tough matchup, even for a skilled MK player. A fully charged Fsmash will kill MK at under 35 percent with DI. His backair will knock you out of shuttle loop when you are returning, and will also clang with glide attack. He can grab you after glide attack, even if you space it right (he can grab you out of the air before you even hit the ground). His reach is longer than yours in just about every way, and his tilts have suprisingly little lag. He has super armor on his up B, and the downward part will spike you if you try to hit him from below. Also, his Dair will beat upair or shuttle loop if placed correctly, as it is disjointed as all hell. Oh, and hes really hard to kill at any reasonable percentage. He can suck you up and kirbycide you as well.
ADHD
Smash Hero
With diddy kong, can I give some input?
As diddy vs meta, I always have to abuse my nanerz in this matchup. Diddy has no solid way to approach metaknight, and will be forced to do this. The matchup is in meta's favor but it really depends on the meta's thoughts on handling the nanerz. Learn to glide toss, and that will give you a boost. Diddy has a very unique dash attack and can easily recover the bananas, you cannot let them stay on open ground--guard them. Whenever he is offstage and is trying to recover, if he is going to side b, do not get in the way or you can be hump-spiked. Don't hesitate to dair his up B, it's a stock off but don't be too off-stage happy, his spike is quite good. The key for metaknight to winning this matchup, is not let diddy get in full throttle. He can easily combo you into oblivion and you are light, which means he wont have too much trouble killing you from a trip. Watch out for the side b kicks on the ground, it is the most likely best way to approach meta naner-less but still risky for him. If you see it coming, immediately shield grab, he can L-cancel the monkey flip kick so don't wait too long, but if the kick hits before he hits the ground, diddy cannot cancel it, so Dsmash or w/e. If you can, screw him over by picking lylat cruise, or platformed stages. Like I said, you have to use the nanerz smart, don't just throw them at him, plan your spacing and limit his options, because without his nanerz, he cannot win.
One more thing, watch out for the dribbling. It's a cheap substitute for wavedashing, when he glide tosses down on the ground and quickly picks the naner back up in one motion, you'll see what it is. If he starts a series of dribbles up close, chances are he's going to throw the naner at you. Put up your shield before it hits but don't make it too obvious.
As diddy vs meta, I always have to abuse my nanerz in this matchup. Diddy has no solid way to approach metaknight, and will be forced to do this. The matchup is in meta's favor but it really depends on the meta's thoughts on handling the nanerz. Learn to glide toss, and that will give you a boost. Diddy has a very unique dash attack and can easily recover the bananas, you cannot let them stay on open ground--guard them. Whenever he is offstage and is trying to recover, if he is going to side b, do not get in the way or you can be hump-spiked. Don't hesitate to dair his up B, it's a stock off but don't be too off-stage happy, his spike is quite good. The key for metaknight to winning this matchup, is not let diddy get in full throttle. He can easily combo you into oblivion and you are light, which means he wont have too much trouble killing you from a trip. Watch out for the side b kicks on the ground, it is the most likely best way to approach meta naner-less but still risky for him. If you see it coming, immediately shield grab, he can L-cancel the monkey flip kick so don't wait too long, but if the kick hits before he hits the ground, diddy cannot cancel it, so Dsmash or w/e. If you can, screw him over by picking lylat cruise, or platformed stages. Like I said, you have to use the nanerz smart, don't just throw them at him, plan your spacing and limit his options, because without his nanerz, he cannot win.
One more thing, watch out for the dribbling. It's a cheap substitute for wavedashing, when he glide tosses down on the ground and quickly picks the naner back up in one motion, you'll see what it is. If he starts a series of dribbles up close, chances are he's going to throw the naner at you. Put up your shield before it hits but don't make it too obvious.
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Smash Hero
Thanks a lot for the input guys; very appreciated.
I am now taking requests; if there's a match-up that gives you trouble I'll put up a section.
I am now taking requests; if there's a match-up that gives you trouble I'll put up a section.
Mr.Victory07
Smash Lord
Oh just to contribute to your DK matchup, Bair, f-tilt, D-tilt(maybe) and possibly DK punch(SA) go through your tornado, so dont approach with it from afar. And its also not smart to attampt a glide attack while he's on the ground, a the DK punch's SA fames can take the hit and KO you
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
this helps a lot. lol possible because these are the only chars. i have trouble against.
question about marth tho. should i space well and try to hit with my tip of sword like usualy or get really close in his face aggresive because his tips > mine and a tiped fsmash = death at 80%
question about marth tho. should i space well and try to hit with my tip of sword like usualy or get really close in his face aggresive because his tips > mine and a tiped fsmash = death at 80%
Hydra.
Smash Lord
Can anyone tell me MK's hardest char's to fight?
Affinity
Smash Hero
Snake, DK, and a better MK.
Hydra.
Smash Lord
Donkey Kong? How so?
Hydra.
Smash Lord
I'm still trying to find the right main. I have been considering Caption Falcon for a 2 min game main. But I guess that still wont beat out your MetaKnight huh? xD But his Speed and Weight seems perfect for 2min matches.. If i get better with him I might use him against some people at the tourny but not against you.. Hm. And right now I think my Pikachu has the best chance, but I already know I wont be beating you with the skill I have with her right now. Same with my Lucas, Besides Lucas isnt good against MK, + With you being a previous expert with him its hard to fight you with him because you know like everything with that char. I'm really trying to study for the tourny but, I dont understand what most of the terms people use on here mean, because I have the SSBB Premiere Edition Book but it doesnt use the same terms everyone says here, I am lost. =/
Hydra.
Smash Lord
Thanks for the help btw. =D
Affinity
Smash Hero
No problem
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
dont use that. All of Its advice is junk
Here's a question that has been debated back and forth...
Is DK a MK counter?
Answering with a Yes or a No is not what I'm looking for, I want to know what you, the MK mains think. A lot of DK players get cocky about the MU because everyone says "DK is the best counter for MK," but a lot of people think that statement is rediculous.
Is the MU a tough one against DK? Why? What does he do or what about him makes it so difficult? How do you overcome it?
I'm looking for detailed answers folks, and I'll greatly appreciate any answers.
Thanks.
Is DK a MK counter?
Answering with a Yes or a No is not what I'm looking for, I want to know what you, the MK mains think. A lot of DK players get cocky about the MU because everyone says "DK is the best counter for MK," but a lot of people think that statement is rediculous.
Is the MU a tough one against DK? Why? What does he do or what about him makes it so difficult? How do you overcome it?
I'm looking for detailed answers folks, and I'll greatly appreciate any answers.
Thanks.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Honestly, I don't see any character being a MK counter.
A good DK can give MK a pretty hard time though because he's heavy, strong, fast, and has better range than MK.
UnSaxon51
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Pretty much.
I think a big reason DK is considered a counter to MK is because the only way you're going to reliably kill him is by chasing off-stage. This is a problem because (1) he's hard to get off the stage in the first place, and (2) his Up-B goes through pretty much everything.
Also, as mentioned in the original post, his stage-spike throw removes the problem of MK's great recovery.
I'd also like to recommend a Pikachu entry, because that stupid yellow mouse can give MK some problems too. I'll type up a review later (when it isn't 5AM)
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Smash Hero
Pikachu section is up.
UnSaxon51
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Pikachu... How I hate him.
My roommate has mained Pikachu since SSB64 and he's always been good with him. On the plus side, this means I have plenty of experience dealing with the rodent.
Let me get this out of the way first:
Pikachu is good. Really good. In the right hands, I'd say he's an even match with Meta Knight. Not a counter, by any means, but a challenge nonetheless.
*Air Attacks*
Pros:
- MK's Fair, Bair, and Dair all have great priority and range over Pikachu's aerials.
- Glide Attack either overrides or cancels all of Pika's attacks EXCEPT Dsmash and Thunder.
- Pika's Nair and Dair have a lot of landing lag and should be punished accordingly. Dair has a landing hitbox though, so be careful.
Cons:
- Pika's Nair is slightly faster than MK's and has killing power.
- Bair lasts forever and a day. It's like Turtle Lite.
- Uair and Fair have practically zero landing lag.
Advantage: Meta Knight
*Ground Attacks*
Pros:
- Fsmash just barely outdistances Pika's Dsmash. If you space correctly, you can take advantage.
- Dtilt is your best choice at interrupting most of the rat's ground attacks.
- MK's grab has better range than Pika's.
- You can escape both of Pika's chaingrabs after the second.
Cons:
- DSMASH. Your worst nightmare in this match. Ridiculous range, sucks you in, builds damage like mad, and can kill as early as 100%. Also, unless your shield is at full, it's going to shield-stab you. It can, however, be escaped by SDI'ing up.
- Pika's jab is one of the fastest in the game and causes tripping.
Advantage: Even
*Specials*
Pros:
- Mach Tornado, as usual, is awesome. It usually goes through Thunder Jolt and at worst they cancel each other. Also goes through all of Pika's aerials unless they attack from above.
- Shuttle Loop is amazing at repelling an approaching Pikachu, but do not throw it out carelessly or you will be punished for it.
Cons:
- Thunder Jolt will likely be spammed consistently. Be careful as it can cause ledge-grab difficulties.
- Quick Attack is one of the safest recoveries in Brawl, and QAC sets Pikachu up for surprising/painful attacks.
- Thunder is fast, powerful, has a lingering hitbox, and recovers fairly quickly.
Advantage: Even
My roommate has mained Pikachu since SSB64 and he's always been good with him. On the plus side, this means I have plenty of experience dealing with the rodent.
Let me get this out of the way first:
Pikachu is good. Really good. In the right hands, I'd say he's an even match with Meta Knight. Not a counter, by any means, but a challenge nonetheless.
*Air Attacks*
Pros:
- MK's Fair, Bair, and Dair all have great priority and range over Pikachu's aerials.
- Glide Attack either overrides or cancels all of Pika's attacks EXCEPT Dsmash and Thunder.
- Pika's Nair and Dair have a lot of landing lag and should be punished accordingly. Dair has a landing hitbox though, so be careful.
Cons:
- Pika's Nair is slightly faster than MK's and has killing power.
- Bair lasts forever and a day. It's like Turtle Lite.
- Uair and Fair have practically zero landing lag.
Advantage: Meta Knight
*Ground Attacks*
Pros:
- Fsmash just barely outdistances Pika's Dsmash. If you space correctly, you can take advantage.
- Dtilt is your best choice at interrupting most of the rat's ground attacks.
- MK's grab has better range than Pika's.
- You can escape both of Pika's chaingrabs after the second.
Cons:
- DSMASH. Your worst nightmare in this match. Ridiculous range, sucks you in, builds damage like mad, and can kill as early as 100%. Also, unless your shield is at full, it's going to shield-stab you. It can, however, be escaped by SDI'ing up.
- Pika's jab is one of the fastest in the game and causes tripping.
Advantage: Even
*Specials*
Pros:
- Mach Tornado, as usual, is awesome. It usually goes through Thunder Jolt and at worst they cancel each other. Also goes through all of Pika's aerials unless they attack from above.
- Shuttle Loop is amazing at repelling an approaching Pikachu, but do not throw it out carelessly or you will be punished for it.
Cons:
- Thunder Jolt will likely be spammed consistently. Be careful as it can cause ledge-grab difficulties.
- Quick Attack is one of the safest recoveries in Brawl, and QAC sets Pikachu up for surprising/painful attacks.
- Thunder is fast, powerful, has a lingering hitbox, and recovers fairly quickly.
Advantage: Even
Affinity
Smash Hero
If you add that Pikachu's D-Smash can easily be escaped from by SDI'ing up, I'll put it in the section.
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Smash Hero
It's in. Thanks for your input.
Also, I'm still taking section requests for anyone that wants one put in.
Toneh
Smash Lord
good stuff guys! keep it going!
the colors are good too lol~
the colors are good too lol~
Affinity
Smash Hero
I added a Difficulty to each match-up. Let me know if there's any difficulties anyone disagree with.
(I did them pretty quickly just to get them started, so most/all of them will probably need adjusting)
(I did them pretty quickly just to get them started, so most/all of them will probably need adjusting)
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
Might I request an Ike section by added by someone who mains Meta Knight and plays Ikes on numerous occasions? My friend mains Meta (And is quite good) and says that he thinks the matchup is "practically even if the Ike spaces and plays smartly". While that's good news, I'd like to see what the rest of the world thinks about it.
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