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Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Olimar
- Thread starter lilseph
- Start date
Is there a difference between stage heights at the flying and at the halberd part?
I think at the halberd part the height is a little bit more.
At the flying part you could plank all day.
But yeah, I´m not sure about it.
What about Lylat Cruise?
He pulls much purples there, right?
I really want to find a good CP against Olimar.
For me the best actually seems to be SV/BF/Delfino/Brinstar.
It varies greatly by stage preference. If Olimar understands Lylat well (which most don't) then it is a relatively good stage for Olimar. Otherwise it's bad for Olimar; ledge guarding will be abnormally effective and probably lead to a gimp.
Brinstar is virtually always a safe bet if you know the stage well. Rainbow Cruise will vary. It's probably Olimar players' least favorite stage, and they usually ban it accordingly. Consequently, many Olimar players are inexperienced on Rainbow Cruise. Delfino is a mixed bag most of the transformations either lack space to gimp Olimar and/or have low ceilings. I personally wouldn't suggest it.
As a note toward the earlier mention of Frigate, I like to take Olimar there, play my normal slow/campy style on the part with one ledge and then scrooge during the part with two ledges. As someone mentioned before, this latter portion of the stage will be in effect for the majority of the time (expect time-outs with this strategy unless the Olimar is aggressive, in which case you should be gimping him before then
).
Enzo
Smash Lord
whats scrooging
Enzo
Smash Lord
^ Isn't that sharking ?
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Sharking is like hovering below the stage while Uairing, this works on stages like Halberd, Delfino, Brinstar, and other stages without a bottom.
Scrooging is better on stages like Battlefield and Smashville where your opponent can't really reach you under the stage.
I mean you can scrooge on any stage that you can fly under but solid stages like SV are easier than Delfino simply because it's harder for your opponent to punish.
Enzo
Smash Lord
Oooh thanks for clearing that up p-4
thanks to kaffei also
thanks to kaffei also
Meta Knight can fly from beneath one ledge to the other on pretty much any legal stage, with some exceptions (e.g. the Pokemon Stadiums).
You can just jump away (while under the stage) and get some distance; most of the cast can't do anything against it, and it bypasses most LGLs. In fact, you can Down-B, Up-B, or B in order to return to the stage with relative safety/minimal lag (B will obviously have more lag than the other two) and without grabbing any ledges whatsoever.
One way that this isn't safe is that the opponent can edge guard and/or projectile you when you're returning to the stage, with some exceptions. This is virtually unpunishable on stages like Green Greens where there is a wall to prevent the opponent from using a projectile, traveling faster than you can recover. Realistically speaking, there is only a handful of characters with the speed/range necessary to reach one side from the other, and even then most of those characters aren't viable there (e.g. Yoshi).
Technically, however, scrooging evades LGLs and is characterized by the use of a ledgeless, aerially accessible platform that is not readily accessible to the ground (e.g. Smashville).
Scrooing is often considered as stalling.
RC is banned in europe.
Olimars will bann brinstar.
So, what should I pick? :s
And what should I bann against Olimar?
BTW, short hopping about Olimars grab and fsmash works really well!
RC is banned in europe.
Olimars will bann brinstar.
So, what should I pick? :s
And what should I bann against Olimar?
BTW, short hopping about Olimars grab and fsmash works really well!
KassandraNova
Smash Master
Ban picto against oli, dunno if its legal where you are. :/
I would taake him to a nuetral that you feel most comfortable on, since idk what's legal in europe.
Edit: please don't take him to delfino, its a good stage for olimar. He plucks more blues in the water, and when the stage changes that upsmash hurts. @.@ I see so many mks pick this.
I would taake him to a nuetral that you feel most comfortable on, since idk what's legal in europe.
Edit: please don't take him to delfino, its a good stage for olimar. He plucks more blues in the water, and when the stage changes that upsmash hurts. @.@ I see so many mks pick this.
But sharking is pretty good.
But yeah, I´m not sure about this stage.
Sometimes its good for you, but if it lands somewhere its mostly bad for you.
Picto also isnt allowed.
Its just all "9" neutral stages from the new SBR ruleset + Orpheon + Brinstar.
So, what should I bann?
Castle Siege or Yoshis Island?
Yoshis Island gives me as much trouble as Siege in the MU.
FD doesnt seem to be that bad for me.
BTW: FTilt is a great move against Olimar. (you don´t have to do all 3 stirkes, if he shields it)
We should also consider for the MU which are the best Pikmin for Olimar in which situation.
So, which are the best Pikmin for him at low, mid, high%, in certain situations?
You could also just kill the Pikmin, which are good for him in his current situation, if he throws them at you.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Ftilt will just get shield grabbed by Oli lol
KassandraNova
Smash Master
Yes. Approuching on the ground is dangerous. @.@
Sync.
Smash Champion
Be careful about the tornado too because a lot of stuff can hit you out of tornado. Your hurtbox is still there and Olimar's will whistle up smash you. His grounded up b has transcending priority if I remember correctly. I would focus more on gimping Olimar starting with grabs or popping them up with a short hop fair. Also abuse Olimar's low priority by cutting through with stuff like down smash and down tilt.
KassandraNova
Smash Master
I would dair to keep the pikmin off you. I would just dair camp in general, that's what I did in friendlies against rich brown and it worked. I love to bait olis into jumping. @.@ I want to become an olimar slayer.
Anyways...if you get grabbed and combo'd up to 50 or so percent, don't panic, it happens. Just get that oli off the stage!! Also pay attention to what pikmin he has. I can't stress that enough. x.x the purples have the most hp and you SHOULD be afraid of them. They are phat and adorable, and they were broken in pikmin 2 and they're broken in this game, so stay the **** away from them. <3
I love purples so much. ;3 sigh.
theunabletable
Smash Lord
Uhh I played Logic this weekend and I did alright against him in friendlies and he says I'm pretty good at the matchup, so I guess if he says I'm playing it pretty well I might as well post my opinions on it.
Dtilt is good. If you get a grab, Bthrow if it'll send him off stage, otherwise Dthrow. You can deal obscene damage with followups against Olimar.
Spacing fair is good in this matchup, actually. If he grabs you, he'll pull you back and it'll pull your sword into him.
Spaced Dair is really safe. But don't be predictable with it. Mix it up. Like maybe throw out 3 dairs, then land, next time maybe throw out 2 dairs and fast fall after the first, etc. Be careful about where you nair his pikmin; 'cause Olimar's like to bait the nair then fair your face.
Gimp him, it's really important.
WATCH HIS LINEUP. You don't need to be pro at watching his lineup, but follow where his purples are.
At 0 make sure not to get hit by a purple pikmin. Purple pikmin toss > grab is really **** and dumb.
Basically just control the stage, space really well, and deal lots of damage in followups. And control the stage really well so that he doesn't have room to retreat. And gimp him.
That's the matchup, pretty much. I could go into more detail about stuff, but generally you want to space Dtilts and dairs smartly, deal a ****load of damage/kill him whenever you get a grab. Juggle him. Tornado is good but not on shield.
It's a tough matchup, atleast vs Rich and Logic, but they're really, really good. I'm not sure what ratio I'd give it, my only Olimar experience is vs the two BEST Olimars, so I don't really have experience against Olimars whose skill is closer to my own, so I can't really give it an accurate ratio.
Capitilizing off of his errors is SOOOO important in this matchup, though.
Also, Inui knows the matchup really well, he gave me some advice about the matchup that helps a lot. See if you can see any of his matches vs Olimar; 'cause according to Rich and Logic he's one of the best at the matchup.
Dtilt is good. If you get a grab, Bthrow if it'll send him off stage, otherwise Dthrow. You can deal obscene damage with followups against Olimar.
Spacing fair is good in this matchup, actually. If he grabs you, he'll pull you back and it'll pull your sword into him.
Spaced Dair is really safe. But don't be predictable with it. Mix it up. Like maybe throw out 3 dairs, then land, next time maybe throw out 2 dairs and fast fall after the first, etc. Be careful about where you nair his pikmin; 'cause Olimar's like to bait the nair then fair your face.
Gimp him, it's really important.
WATCH HIS LINEUP. You don't need to be pro at watching his lineup, but follow where his purples are.
At 0 make sure not to get hit by a purple pikmin. Purple pikmin toss > grab is really **** and dumb.
Basically just control the stage, space really well, and deal lots of damage in followups. And control the stage really well so that he doesn't have room to retreat. And gimp him.
That's the matchup, pretty much. I could go into more detail about stuff, but generally you want to space Dtilts and dairs smartly, deal a ****load of damage/kill him whenever you get a grab. Juggle him. Tornado is good but not on shield.
It's a tough matchup, atleast vs Rich and Logic, but they're really, really good. I'm not sure what ratio I'd give it, my only Olimar experience is vs the two BEST Olimars, so I don't really have experience against Olimars whose skill is closer to my own, so I can't really give it an accurate ratio.
Capitilizing off of his errors is SOOOO important in this matchup, though.
Also, Inui knows the matchup really well, he gave me some advice about the matchup that helps a lot. See if you can see any of his matches vs Olimar; 'cause according to Rich and Logic he's one of the best at the matchup.
You don´t have to do all 3 strikes.
FTilt first hit against shield to SH Dair jump away is pretty save!
FTilt is really good vs. Olimar, just space it well and dont do third hit, if the Olimar shields it.
And Im sure its good.
The best european Olimar agreed to me about that FTilt stuff.
this is all very good stuff.
interesting. f-tilt spaced doesn't extend his hurtbox like d-tilt. however, f-tilt to SH Dair sounds a bit far fetched. are you sure Olimar can't just shieldgrab after the first f-tilt strike?
other interesting tidbits:
- when olimar is in the air stay under him. don't air shuttle loop (grounded shuttle loop is ok). Olimar is at his most vulnerable when he is trying to land from above you so your goal is to stay low to the ground and put him back in the air if he lands. upb'ing is asking to be whistled into w/e he wants. predict the whistle.
- lots of Olimars LOVE falling with neutral-a because it combos into up-smash and it has pretty good priority from below. SHIELD it.
- get out of the habit of trying to shieldgrab Olimar. up-smash and d-smash on shield pushes MK away far enough out of his grab range. d-tilt or f-tilt are your best responses after smash attacks.
- avoid air dodging to the ground near olimar. it's simply what Olimar's are trained to look for and good ones will catch you with their pivot grab.
- when Oli has positioning and space do not rush yourself into him. get close to him and play defensively while destroying his pikmin. eventually, he'll start to lose positioning. your goal is to stay close enough so that he'll begin putting up his shield. once his shield gets worn down just a tiny bit tilt pressure into tornado becomes golden and sets Oli up for becoming airborne
olimar can definitely grab MK by frames after ftilt 1, but it's not that easy to just react to MK stopping it and grab it, I think most players are going to have to call you on it and assume that you're not doing ftilt 2, olimar's grab is pretty slow
Dunno, if Olimars grab gets out fast enough if the FTilt it spaced.
But he has to predict the FTilt, to do that.
So its a two sided sword for Olimar.
BTW, read Omnis Tips.
The things he tells work pretty well.
human reaction time is like >20 frames, so yeah, he has to predict it
Karcist
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2009
- Messages
- 362
Depends on the pikmin color and its health. Not a good idea though so don't make it habitual.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
NOOOOOOOOOOOO do not try this ever you will die ****
KassandraNova
Smash Master
I learned a lot more about this match up from playing my good friend hi1t. I don't know if any of this was mentioned yet, but oh well, drill this into yo brain suckaa. Jk 
So olimar can whistle through all of our moves except for our BAIR. So shuttle looping is a bad idea unless you are using it to gimp. Good olimars will whistle through your shuttle loop, they will also chase you after a retreating tornado has fail and also upsmash you for it. If you are near an olimar, and he is sheilding, most will down smash out of sheild if you are close enough. Also if you see a purple running back to oli down smash and kill that little guy, (I love you purple pikmin, I'm sorry! D: ) doing this will kill that scary phat beautiful thing. <3
For this mu you also want to mix up air and ground game. Pay attention to his jump, and don't be afraid to nair him offstage. Just watch out for the uair ledge drop. also dtilt is an amazing way to force the olimar into a bad position. Dtilt is better than ftilt in this mu.
:O
Thaz all for nows. ^_^ hope I was able to help a bit. I'm still learning this myself.
So olimar can whistle through all of our moves except for our BAIR. So shuttle looping is a bad idea unless you are using it to gimp. Good olimars will whistle through your shuttle loop, they will also chase you after a retreating tornado has fail and also upsmash you for it. If you are near an olimar, and he is sheilding, most will down smash out of sheild if you are close enough. Also if you see a purple running back to oli down smash and kill that little guy, (I love you purple pikmin, I'm sorry! D: ) doing this will kill that scary phat beautiful thing. <3
For this mu you also want to mix up air and ground game. Pay attention to his jump, and don't be afraid to nair him offstage. Just watch out for the uair ledge drop.
also dtilt is an amazing way to force the olimar into a bad position. Dtilt is better than ftilt in this mu.:O
Thaz all for nows. ^_^ hope I was able to help a bit. I'm still learning this myself.
Bloodcross
Smash Champion
Pretty sure Nair goes through Olimar's whistle as well. Bair sounds sexy though.