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Meta Knight: Video Compilation & Critique Thread

Catana

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Hey guys, new to these boards but I recently decided to main MK and use him at tournaments.
I was wondering if maybe you guys could give me some critique on this match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKQGwdtOLEw

At an offline tourney, final game of a set in loser's.
I'm planning to improve my game a bit so any feedback would be appreciated
 

Oblivion129

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Hey guys, new to these boards but I recently decided to main MK and use him at tournaments.
I was wondering if maybe you guys could give me some critique on this match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKQGwdtOLEw

At an offline tourney, final game of a set in loser's.
I'm planning to improve my game a bit so any feedback would be appreciated
Yoshi is a pretty hard MU but you did really well.
I saw some OoS Shuttle Loop possibilities that could have KO'd earlier than a grab. Other than that I'm not sure because of the MU. Maybe more camping after that lead on your second stock.
 

Ulevo

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Hey guys, new to these boards but I recently decided to main MK and use him at tournaments.
I was wondering if maybe you guys could give me some critique on this match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKQGwdtOLEw

At an offline tourney, final game of a set in loser's.
I'm planning to improve my game a bit so any feedback would be appreciated
1) Do not down air in to the stage, not particularly safe.

2) If you have the choice to throw Yoshi off stage and opt for an edge guard versus going for a down throw to Shuttle Loop, go for the latter. Yoshi is hard to edge guard and you shouldn't be throwing him off sub 40% anyway.

3) If he decides to do stuff like hit your shield with forward air, Shuttle Loop or up smash out of shield.

4) Based on some things the Yoshi was doing, I would say Kongo Jungle is a counterpick ideal for Yoshi under normal circumstances. I don't know how many bans you had in that set, but Kong Jungle is one of the worst stages for Meta Knight and if its legal in tournament you should not be playing on it if you can help it. You basically played on the worst possible stage this game.

5) Get familiar with up throw % kill ranges. You used it a few times on Yoshi without killing him and staled it. I have a thread on this if you want to check it out.

6) Mach Tornado is sort of interesting in this match up. You can utilize it against Yoshi if he's already used his double jump, so keep that in mind. While you cannot use it against his shield to shield poke him the way you would with other characters, this can actually be a blessing because it means you can get as much shield damage on it as possible. If you manage to wear it down enough, you can go for either another Mach Tornado or a Dimensional Cape and force Yoshi to either eat the damage or have the shield break.
 

Catana

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1) Do not down air in to the stage, not particularly safe.

2) If you have the choice to throw Yoshi off stage and opt for an edge guard versus going for a down throw to Shuttle Loop, go for the latter. Yoshi is hard to edge guard and you shouldn't be throwing him off sub 40% anyway.

3) If he decides to do stuff like hit your shield with forward air, Shuttle Loop or up smash out of shield.

4) Based on some things the Yoshi was doing, I would say Kongo Jungle is a counterpick ideal for Yoshi under normal circumstances. I don't know how many bans you had in that set, but Kong Jungle is one of the worst stages for Meta Knight and if its legal in tournament you should not be playing on it if you can help it. You basically played on the worst possible stage this game.

5) Get familiar with up throw % kill ranges. You used it a few times on Yoshi without killing him and staled it. I have a thread on this if you want to check it out.

6) Mach Tornado is sort of interesting in this match up. You can utilize it against Yoshi if he's already used his double jump, so keep that in mind. While you cannot use it against his shield to shield poke him the way you would with other characters, this can actually be a blessing because it means you can get as much shield damage on it as possible. If you manage to wear it down enough, you can go for either another Mach Tornado or a Dimensional Cape and force Yoshi to either eat the damage or have the shield break.
Yeah, Idk why I didn't think of banning Kongo, that wasnt too smart of me.
Thanks for the tips, I'll make sure to remember them. I'll check out your thread(s) as well.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

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http://www.twitch.tv/gooshigaming/b/657052795

Start at 0:57:00. Me against Xatic from Leap of Faith. :4metaknight: vs :4falcon:. Fun matchup. You have to be careful.

EDIT: I have no what idea what was up with my tech skill yesterday. 2nd game where I was trying to finish off that first stock, i accidentally back throw'ed instead of Up..twice lol. I also need to pay more attention to my SL angles. I forgot this particular player actually knows about Metaknight things.
 
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Trunks159

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http://www.twitch.tv/gooshigaming/b/657052795

Start at 0:57:00. Me against Xatic from Leap of Faith. :4metaknight: vs :4falcon:. Fun matchup. You have to be careful.

EDIT: I have no what idea what was up with my tech skill yesterday. 2nd game where I was trying to finish off that first stock, i accidentally back throw'ed instead of Up..twice lol. I also need to pay more attention to my SL angles. I forgot this particular player actually knows about Metaknight things.
Yeah, your MK as always was solid, only saw a few gripes:
  • Too many defensive habits. If you were pressured, or whiffed a move, you would spot dodge consistently.
  • Too many whiffed combos. A lot of :4metaknight:s have this problem. At % below 40, don't go for up air strings. Just don't do it. Also, jumping into the tornado, or PP into the tornado combos a little better. At low %, just go for dthrow>dash attack>uptilt/upsmash/mach tornado. Or dthrow>nair, or dthrow>PPuptilt>nair/mach tornado, or back throw>dash attack>upsmash/mach tornado. Dash attack to nair or up tilt or up smash. You know what they are. You also might wanna just wait for air doges a little more.
  • Against Luigi, you can't stay in the neutral for very long, unless you play EXTREMELY safe. Grabbing stage control extremely important.
  • When edge guarding (:4falcon: at least), you probably don't want to wait offstage using your jumps. Stay on stage a bit longer. You rarely were in this position but in that game it happened once and couldve been a kill.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

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Yeah I noticed that spot doge habit myself and I'm trying to currently weed out that habit. I've been getting punished for that.

Also thank you for the critique!
 

Katakiri

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Winners Finals :4metaknight: vs Fizzle :4ness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_DjTIpaT0g
Rare footage of Katakiri in tryhard mode. You can always measure how serious I am by the number of times I D-Air OoS. My tag is a "A Buster" because I went out like a buster in doubles. The first 3 matches didn't get recorded somehow but I went Mega Man for game 3 to try it, didn't like it.

Grand Finals :4megaman::4metaknight: vs Shugo:4sonic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqNOEb0Drs
And here I go out like a Mega Buster. Way more of my Mega Man than MK. Shugo was Ohio's best Brawl player back in the day so definitely didn't lose to a random. I didn't play safe enough as Mega Man but I learned a lot about that MU.
 

Ulevo

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Winners Finals :4metaknight: vs Fizzle :4ness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_DjTIpaT0g
Rare footage of Katakiri in tryhard mode. You can always measure how serious I am by the number of times I D-Air OoS. My tag is a "A Buster" because I went out like a buster in doubles. The first 3 matches didn't get recorded somehow but I went Mega Man for game 3 to try it, didn't like it.

Grand Finals :4megaman::4metaknight: vs Shugo:4sonic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqNOEb0Drs
And here I go out like a Mega Buster. Way more of my Mega Man than MK. Shugo was Ohio's best Brawl player back in the day so definitely didn't lose to a random. I didn't play safe enough as Mega Man but I learned a lot about that MU.
Needs more Meta Knight.
 

ZTD | TECHnology

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Yeah the Tornado basically locks them in shield while doing massive shield pressure so no matter what, Shield Breaker will pop their **** lol. Cool strat. I love seeing new dubs technology with MK.
 

moofpi

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SHIG League B (Customs) Winner's Finals Tamanyaso (Meta Knight) vs Teppei (Villager) 4/9/15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5pOZKc8dlo

Umebura 15 B class GFs Tamanyaso (Meta Knight) vs NOBUO (Robot) 5/17/15
https://youtu.be/QRRWJrL_jok

So what do you guys think of Tamanyaso? Seemed a little roll-happy in the latest matches, but I guess MK has a good roll like Rosalina. Anyways, he won the B class Umebura 15 which is commendable. I don't know the difference between A and B brackets, B mayyy have a character limit whereas A doesn't, but don't quote me on that. Japan just has a tendency to do character themed or limited tournaments.

*I just noticed that the B League in the first video is Customs, so maybe that's the case in the Umebura B bracket?
 
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ItoI6

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he kept ledgehopping a lot, try using tornado above the ledge at least a few times because it wouldve beaten a lot of his options he was going for. he also does that because it gives him room to stall with upb until he sees an opening to fastfall nair into the ground safely which he got away with every time. when you see rob stall like that you want to just be very patient and stay directly under him, and try and make him misspace nair by dash shielding or just walking and shielding into him so his spacing is wrong. if hes outside of shield grabbing distance then hes spaced it correctly and gotten away with it, but if he doesnt shield directly after then hes still vulnerable to oos upb, and i think you could have punished him afterward because he seemed to think he could get away with continuing to pressure your shield by buffering nair-dtilt or nair-downb. if you dont think thats gonna work you can just buffer jump backward oos or roll away when he nairs your shield. jumping up after rob and trying to upair or outmaneuver him when hes stalling in the air with upb is bad news and hes probably going to win that trade every time. the most i would do is empty shorthop to make him think its the right time to fastfall nair, then just fastfall back to the ground and walk+shield into him. dash attacking or upbing him as he nairs into the ground will just trade in robs favor and isnt really a good idea. uptilt will beat robs nair every time if youre directly under him as well. if he stalls too predictably with upb you can just yolo shuttle loop him and even if he reacts he wont be able to do anything because rob is unable to airdodge while using upb.

when you juggle him dont dash around under him, that gives him a very easy opening to land with nair. walk under him.

you were tornadoing in neutral way too far away for him to ever make an incorrect reaction. its especially ineffective against someone who can angle their shield as well.

dtilt is not a punish, dtilt is a move you use when you need something to throw out and youre not sure if itll hit, its a conditioning move that sometimes combos from trips and at also very specific percents. @ 3:10 just use nado or fsmash. also in general i saw some mid percent dash attacks where you just did fullhop fair or something bad and got nothing after, just use shuttle loop. idk if you were tryna get fair-upb but that really only works at very early percents and at specific spacing, you should just go for ez buffered grounded upb. dont squander what hits you can get

if you land sweetspot dash attack at under 10% on rob just mashing B is guaranteed every time i think.

@ 5:40 see now i dont like this at all. a lot of mks will backthrow people off the ledge and go for some kind of gimp offstage, but i just dont agree. go for guaranteed damage, do dthrow upb. your comeback is far more possible from 2-3 combos into a lucky shuttle loop then a gimp on rob of all characters.

@7:10 bad @ 7:19 bad @ 2:47 bad @ 8:42 pummel at high percents at least once

the way you play neutral is just way too limited. dash shield and dash attack cant work forever. some things you ned to incorporate
- walk forward and dash back, foxtrot-dashdance back at them again.
- empty jump into fastfall dtilt or crossup roll on landing
- dash shield unshield and just walk. no need to dash again so soon.

really not very good ledge trapping the whole set basically lol

other than that you played ok if that guy is like a high level player. it was really unfortunate he kept barely living shuttle loops and other kill moves. i think with more luck you couldve taken some games. pm me if you wanna try wifi
 
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ZTD | TECHnology

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Awesome, thank you for the advice. And yeah that ROB is considered a high level player. Typically he places very high in tournaments in Ohio and MI with exclusively ROB.

And yeah I think yelled out "WHY ARE YOU STILL ALIVE??" like 3 times in that set rofl.

Also, yeah I hate wifi but I'm willing to try it. I'll inquire soon about that.
 
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warionumbah2

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So what do you guys think of Tamanyaso?
Pales in comparison to alot of MKs, even the not so well known MKs are better by a long shot. Poor combo choices,silly dash attack spam,plays neutral poorly ontop of tornado not being used effectively spells 'bad MK'.
 
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ZTD | TECHnology

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I think there is only 1 Japanese MK that I was impressed with. You'd think MK would be popular in Japan too. At least to the point where they would be more decent MKs out there. The difference between Ito and pretty much every Japanese MK is like night and day.
 
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Fye

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@ ArcGale ArcGale
You give up lots of free damage by going for unoptimized combos. When you DA Falcon at low percentages, you should go for Nado afterwards. Up-air will not hit, and up-tilt has no guarenteed followups. Instead of F-air when you D-throw, you should chase and hit them with grounded shuttle loop. If you're doing an up-air chain and feel that one isn't going to hit, it's better to cut your losses and just go for guaranteed shuttle loop damage. You Dimensional Cape a lot but you already know that.

Onto more gameplay-style. Fix the rolling habit now. It'll bite you later if you don't get it under control. You throw out lots of DA and grabs but most are pretty unsafe. I play a more defensive MK, but if you want to learn to be a safe aggressor, you should watch Katakiri and S2H.
 

ArcGale

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@ Fye Fye
Thanks for the advice! I'll be sure to fix that rolling habit and use more guaranteed follow ups!
 
D

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Seeing things like the second stock of the second game motivate me to try and get good at this game so I can do stuff like that in an actual match, not training mode. Holy s***.
 

Oblivion129

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Great match, and that last stock was awesome! It'll be good to note that some characters like Luigi land behind you after a footstool. I'm not sure if someone has the full list of characters that do.
 

warionumbah2

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Marth/Lucina land behind MK 90% of the time.

I think footstool combo's are good to go for when you have a stock lead, doesn't have to kill but the damage is nice.
 
D

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Here's an online game I had against Ito the other night. Any tips on how I can improve? I know I'm terrible at this game so please don't sugarcoat your critique, lol.
 

arncakes

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Friendly match from a local tourney the other day. Shulk can die SOO early from upair+upB with his smash monado on.

Also, advice is appreciated :) Just picked up MK a little over a week ago so anything helps.
 

AmishTechnology

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I think there is only 1 Japanese MK that I was impressed with. You'd think MK would be popular in Japan too. At least to the point where they would be more decent MKs out there. The difference between Itoi and pretty much every Japanese MK is like night and day.
There are definitely some characters they have more optimized than us - Shulk, Yoshi, Greninja, probably Villager - but Meta Knight is certainly not one of them.

Here's an online game I had against Ito the other night. Any tips on how I can improve? I know I'm terrible at this game so please don't sugarcoat your critique, lol.
Your combos could use a bit more optimization. I noticed early on that there was a potential footstool you missed after a u-air, first stock, low percents. Meta Knight's combo knowledge requirement is incredibly huge compared to, say, Mario, so it will take a while to get there! You also missed some big opportunities for a Tornado punish such as when Ito missed his own Tornado completely or flubbed a shuttle loop, etc. Good job on that first edge guard though, Meta Knight vs Meta Knight is a strange matchup in that both of them can really **** each other up off-stage.

Nair trades with drill, I learned that by yolo'ing vs S2H in Smashladder at like March or something (1-2, he beat me quite handily the next two games, 2-stocked in 2/3 I think). So, if you're the edge guarder, you can go for nairs if the enemy MK is high enough percent to trade and KO or disrupt him and waste his jumps, just get ready to wall tech (especially if you're high %) or have enough jumps to recover (you won't die if drill wall spikes you at low % since you're Meta Knight).

The both of you missed some prime ledge trump opportunities, though Itoi did take them later. This is an incredible edge guard and pressure option that you need to be able to do 100% of the time. MK has an easy version and a hard version - the easy version is running off the stage and just tapping the opposite direction the instant you fall off. However, this is slower than the slightly harder 3/4 circle motion that every other character has to do, plus you need dashing space to do the easy method. So... master the hard method if you haven't already, and make it natural. This will make edge guarding certain characters incredibly trivial or at least a lot easier.


Friendly match from a local tourney the other day. Shulk can die SOO early from upair+upB with his smash monado on.

Also, advice is appreciated :) Just picked up MK a little over a week ago so anything helps.
Haha, you are already better at the early u-air x5 -> shuttle loop than me.

But, your bread and butter combos could use some work. Dthrow and dash attack into nair isn't very strong... actually, it can get you punished quite often due to nair's very low hitstun and knockback at low %, and the low damage doesn't make it worth much either. Plus, it doesn't keep them up in the air like uair and usmash do for additional pressure (and, if you use nado, it'll do 22% with far enough knockback that they can't punish you).

There were a couple prime ledge trump opportunities you missed. With the terrible recovery that non-Jump Shulk has, I think ledge trumping him would've put some incredible pressure.
 

ItoI6

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http://www.twitch.tv/showdownsmash/v/5564664

http://showdowngg.challonge.com/comeonandban19singles

vs DSS Ness #3 Norcal - 49:50 - ive never lost a set vs dss until this, and i double 3-0d him when i played him last tuesday. pretty frustrating.

vs Chibo ROB - He played pretty well, it made me think mk loses to rob by a bit.

vs Phancy Ness #11 Norcal - got my confidence back a little in the matchup at least.

vs Zex Sheik and Diddy #8 Socal - i played very well this set its a shame it wasnt recorded. he switched to diddy for game 2.

Losers Semis vs DSS Ness #3 Norcal - 1:40:30 - It went much better this time.

Losers Finals vs Arikie Sonic #1 Sacramento - 1:47:28 - I don't really have any experience with custom sonic but i adapted well enough i think.

Grand Finals vs 6WX Sonic #4 Tristate - 2:00:16 - I choked away a huge lead on last game, i keep losing in gfs of all my tourneys now...

sonic is so bad for mk, and now people are using custom sonic lol cant get much worse. i won $119 for 2nd and i think i did pretty well overall though its very hard to be consistent with mk. also my upb angles were horrible for some reason i whiffed on 2nd hit a lot idk what happened lol. probably the most important thing ive tried to think about is its always possible to win. just endure the strings of bull**** sheik fair, or sonic spindash or other top tier nonsense because a clutch upb is all it takes to win. ill try and keep it up.
 
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warionumbah2

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Commentators makes me chuckle, you can't do jack when getting uair stringed. if sonic up b's out of it that means the MK user didn't string his uairs properly. Up b doesn't cancel uairs hitstun and MK doesn't die as early as they say but whatevs, this isn't the first time hearing sketchy stuff.

Im shocked that default MKs are doing well in customs, at least you got your revenge on Ness by dominsting him.

DA into nado against sonic? That's new.
 
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ZTD | TECHnology

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These are the sets I lost yesterday at the weekly. Advice as always is very helpful and always appreciated!

Winner's Quarters vs Ksev :4fox:(#5 in Michigan)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s2dk1QPWbw

Game 1, I felt like I was just waking up. I played so slow for some reason. Game 2....let's just say you'll love the ending. Game 3, I was in the game but I just got flustered. He got in my head with the barrage of Fairs and making it hard for me to land and I just end just choked -_-

Loser's Quarters vs Coco :4olimar:(Not ranked but would be if he attended more last season)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCjfFmV_XPo

I started off with a bang in Game 1 but the next two games fell off for me as I could not figure out how to get in on him.
 

warionumbah2

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Against :4olimar: i recommend not staying on the ground too much, he counters our ground game hard. He can safely throw pikman along with pivot grabs,smashes and ftilt. Game 1 the olimar player didn't do that so you steamrolled him, but he started doing it more in the later games.

When MKs in the air Olimar can't do jack, Dair outranges his uair btw. I played a much more campy Olimar sometimes(he switches cuz i play the MU like a ****) and he told me that Olimar doesn't have any anti aerial moves against MK.

On game 2 last stock notice how Olimar couldn't do a thing, what you did at 6:31 was good.

U-smash doesn't have that much vertical range(depends on pikman) nor does it have much horizontal range so you can land next to him and grab into up throw,DA or tornado. His utilt is his best option but it has enough end lag for us to punish. You can dair camp Olimar infront or directly above him but you must mix up your landing, if he has his blue pikman ready expect a grab.

The MU is basically MK camping in the air and then he comes down to get damage and rinse and repeat, up throw and Dtilt(2 for purple) decimates his pikman so use that time to get one combo on him since he needs one Ftilt or a move to knock you away so that he can get his pikman back near instantly. Of course Olimar is pretty easy to edgeguard, if he has purple he can cover himself well i suppose. That's my $0.02.

Edit: Ito's matches above are on youtube i'll link it asap

Here https://www.youtube.com/user/showdowngg/videos
 
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