Meta Knight over nerfed?

[z00ted]

You may know everything there is to know about Brawl Meta Knight but that doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about SSB4 Meta Knight yet.

Of course it doesn't. Everything is entirely speculation. No need to throw out insults. Try reading....

How is your anecdotal evidence any better than someone else?

^This. Basically, Shaya's entire post covered exactly how I feel regarding everything about Metaknight. Watch it unfold in the future of this game's meta or throw some of your insight into how you feel about him so we can see otherwise.

 

[ItoI6]

For what its worth I think the one thing that's still as good as brawl mk is his mobility. His air speed is actually much better than in brawl which makes up for not having tornado to cover his ass, so if he has a lead he can just run the clock. He also has some reliable combos off of his throws. In the long run mobility will start to matter more and more though, so I think he's just going to get better over time.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

My main issue is the disturbing startup lag on a lot of his moves.

I'm fine with decreasing range.

I'm NOT fine when it comes with increased lag so basically Meta Knights moves are all broadcast and terribad at the same time.

 

[onlyaaron17]

I just came to get some tips and mu knowledge for smash 4 MK, but unfortunately a sad face because metaknight has been dissapointment in the competive theory for me right now. Theres a list of fundamentals that defines a good character in smash. From what I think: Power, Speed, Range, start/end lag, Gimping power, Mobility, Recovery, Infinites. A lot more things that makes a good character. I love kirby and metaknight and loved him in brawl. I picked up smash 4 and played him vs Jiggs and jiggs got ***** by ASL and killing off the top blastzone. I thought hey hes still good. After a week of playing smash i play mk again. And go to fd vs a lv9 computer for botton purpose (ik training is better vs a lv4 cpu and lower). And this sonic was ****** me. I thought hey maybe im playing like a scrub. I play again. sonic ***** me with 2 stocks again. I keep playing changing up my style and then I realize all the flaws MK has.. Low dmg outputs while sonic does 2-3 moves and does the same thing I so. Everytime i go for a punish sonics moves trades with me exvept i get put in a very bad situation with less stage control VERSES SONIC. Yeah u can gimp maybe if ur lucky and the air dodge mechanis allowed u to punish. Want a grab combo? Sakurai says nope. Want to shield pressure? Nah ull get punished because of mks crappy range. Its just insane when u work so hard for dmg because u have a bad range. Like even in brawl a lot of low tiers had great kill moves it was just the tangr was tetrible. I just dont know what to say it makes me cry to not want to play metaknight because working fot 1 string takes 30 seconds while ur opponent does 2 moves and they already on a percent reset lol its insane.

 

[phe-gnome]

I wouldn't say Meta Knight is VERY bad. If that's true, then what does that make Olimar, Palutena and Charizard haha?

He's not nearly as good as he was in Brawl, but that needed to happen. I just don't feel all that at a disadvantage using MK. I feel really comfortable with him and I have a lot of fun so even if that's the case I don't care.

What I typically do is hover around really low, waiting for the opponent to whiff and then I drop in and attack. I got the F-air 2 hit cancel down pretty good. I use dimensional cape (without sword) quite a lot for mobility and punishing. Just requires a lot of reading to be successful. Now that dimensional cape kills ok, I use it for mind games once the opponent catches on. While they are waiting to whack-a-mole me with a smash attack once I reappear, I'll just slash them instead.

The way I see it is, Meta Knight is a mid, maybe low-mid tier character who is risky to play. I find his air game and gimping to make up for his nerfs just fine. I'm not by any means a pro, and I don't do tournaments, so maybe I'm wrong and MK is **** tier, but it doesn't feel that way to me.

 

[Shaya]

I wouldn't say Meta Knight is VERY bad. If that's true, then what does that make Olimar, Palutena and Charizard haha?

Well, maybe not in Olimar's case. But Palutena and Charizard have range and kill power, strengths that can be abused/accentuated upon.
All three of those characters have custom specials that I think help improve them. In Palutena's case, Light weight/super speed/etc is legitimately one of the best moves in the game, if you aren't playing against a palutena using light weight, you're not dealing with the AT LEAST Middle Tier version of her.

I've gone over MK's custom specials. Speed Drill is a must in my opinion, although I don't doubt that the mechanics of the default side-b could have potential. Otherwise he is going for default up-b, default tornado (the others are useless) and a dimension cape which from initial look have very little variation to them in a way that screams "HOORAY"; piercing cape going through shields is cool. It's unfortunate, but unlike a lot of other characters I've touched upon, I do not see real improvements gained by MK.

A 1211 seemingly optimal custom moveset is pretty dire.

 

[Karaoke Man]

I just came to get some tips and mu knowledge for smash 4 MK, but unfortunately a sad face because metaknight has been dissapointment in the competive theory for me right now. Theres a list of fundamentals that defines a good character in smash. From what I think: Power, Speed, Range, start/end lag, Gimping power, Mobility, Recovery, Infinites. A lot more things that makes a good character.

No, those are not what defines a "good" character. Those what are what determines the role that the character was designed to play.

It's how well you perform that role that determines the performance of the character, but that all comes with experience of course. Unless people want to go through what we had to endure in Brawl, his range is fine right where it is. I mean, I get that the range is a little decieving, but not everybody is supposed to have range as long as Marth. These changes do not, and will never make a character "bad". This just means you have to go about learning him differently.

 

[HammerHappy]

Yeah but it's great because now I can play Metaknight and respect myself at the same time.

 

[phe-gnome]

I've been exploring some on stage options lately and I found a cross up like set up. I know that cross ups don't exist in SSB, at least not in the traditional sense, but MK's back air opens up some combo possibility.

If you are familiar with the f-air meteor cancel where you land before the 3rd hit, the b-air has similar properties.

My approach is to jump over the opponent, angle back towards them and bounce them with the b-air, landing before the 3rd hit. Depending on weight, and dmg %, you could true combo into another short hop b-air, f-tilt combo, or a d-smash. The trick to landing the b-air meteor is to try to aim for the head. Any earlier or later and the first hit usually knocks them back.

Obviously, you can approach from the front, but I think it works better for hopping over a whiffed attack and punishing from behind.

Not a game changer by any means, but another option.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

I've never played Meta Knight in Brawl, but maybe that's a good thing. I'm trying him out as a secondary and I like the speed, priority, aerials and ability to rack up damage. The fact that every special attack (B) leaves you helpless in the air leaves me to wonder how broken he was in Brawl. (I've only heard stories and only recently looked into explanations on the matter). I can certainly say that it takes skill to master him and he feels decent all around.

 

[daedgaem]

No idea why anyone can consider Meta Knight good in SSB4.

He deals very little damage in comparison to most other characters, and can "rack up damage" by getting an early tornady and that's pretty much it. No combos at all. Most "combos" which are all created by dthrow / dash attack, can be DI'd and jumped/dodged away from. 3 kill moves. 2 of them being quite awkward, which grants you a guaranteed huge punish if they whiff or are shielded/dodged.

Definite bottom tier.

 

[MagiusNecros]

No idea why anyone can consider Meta Knight good in SSB4.

He deals very little damage in comparison to most other characters, and can "rack up damage" by getting an early tornady and that's pretty much it. No combos at all. Most "combos" which are all created by dthrow / dash attack, can be DI'd and jumped/dodged away from. 3 kill moves. 2 of them being quite awkward, which grants you a guaranteed huge punish if they whiff or are shielded/dodged.

Definite bottom tier.

I still think it's too early to say Meta Knight is crap tier especially if you get some rhythm going when you get in the air. You can do some really nasty stuff with your aerials. Not to mention most characters are going to get flustered when you go off stage after them since you have triple as many jumps as they do plus insane recovery options. Just fix MK's hitboxes on all his attacks and you can have a real monster in the hands of a pro. And going off of Ito's Meta Knight there is definitely some potential for MK. If you can feint a playstyle to trick your opponent into playing the way you want them to alongside knowing whether they are aggressive or defensive you can take cues on how to set up your combos. Now while you can't cancel your jab into Shuttle Loop anymore, Shuttle Loop is still a damn good attack.

Meta Knight is kinda like the Akuma of the game. Be quick or be dead. You can build damage really fast but your overall stamina and threshold from taking hits is rather low. Obviously it's not a side by side comparison or accurate analogy but it has some merit.

Main reason MK doesn't have the spotlight is of course nerfed range and other characters are used more often, or are in the spotlight. Such as Sheik, ZSS, Diddy Kong, RosaLuma, etc.

It's not until someone decides to pick up a character and see what actual potential they have and that's when we really find out if a character is awesome or not.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

ive already won locals with mk, as has another fellow mk in cbus katakiri. meta knight is still quite good, dont look for him to be used in the same ways as he used to

 

[SmashBro99]

Not broken =/= bad

He's balanced now, and while I don't play him, and haven't faced him a lot, I've watched matches on youtube and he seems fine.

He's not played a lot because he isn't pick up and win anymore, and most don't want to bother learning him if he isn't broken lol.

I personally don't care for the character so I don't play him period, I will eventually since I want to learn the basics of all fighters.

 

[mustbepbs]

I think he's great. He's a good combo of Pit and Sonic for me. He has good air game and some solid killing moves that are fairly unpredictable (down b) plus his recovery can hit through the ledge. He can chase and gimp pretty well and his side b has good priority. I see no issue with him at all played correctly.

 

[DiggersBoy]

To be honest, I think this thread has already served it's purpose. A lot of us in the Smash Community have already realized that Meta Knight is in fact not that bad, and he can even be great if used well, thanks to his great punish game and Tornado. There's no need to continue to revive this thread in order to start arguments over if this character is good or bad. It's up to you to decide. It gets pretty heated in here, most of the time unnecessarily.

SO NO ONE HAS TO POST HERE AGAIN, LET ME JUST POST A COUPLE BITS OF INFO:

META KNIGHT HAS ACTUAL COMBOS http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2o7b36/metaknight_upair_to_upb_string_kills_at_58_by_ito/

META KNIGHT IS PRETTY DECENT. HE RELIES ON A BAIT AND PUNISH GAME.

META KNIGHT HAS GOOD KILL PERCENTS. IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU USE TO KILL. BAIR, FSMASH, UP-B, AND DOWN-B ARE VERY RELIABLE MOVES THAT CAN KILL AT PERCENTS AS LOW AS 60%

PLEASE STOP WONDERING WHY META KNIGHT (OR ANY CHARACTER) IS BAD IF YOU HAVEN'T LOOKED UP WHAT THEY CAN DO. http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2o7b36/metaknight_upair_to_upb_string_kills_at_58_by_ito/

I would ask a mod to lock this up, as we're moving on from "Is Meta Knight even good" to "What can we push forward in Meta Knight's gameplay that can allow us to dominate tournaments", but sadly we don't have a mod here