saying what I just said in the social thread: if you think MK's vertical recovery is bad, you're bad with MK. learn how to recover with reverse shuttle loop.
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Meta Knight 2.6 impressions
- Thread starter Aenglaan
- Start date
PurDi
Smash Journeyman
You're really just gonna tell me I'm wrong? You haven't thought much about your opponent apparently.
Reverse shuttle loop is alright, but it leaves you onstage with lag. Easily punishable. DC up is slow, and it's fairly obvious where you'll end up, ie. easily punishable by a simple wavedash ledgehog. Mashing tornado leaves you super prone to meteors. What does MK have that can get back quickly and SAFELY from below the stage?
Reverse shuttle loop is alright, but it leaves you onstage with lag. Easily punishable. DC up is slow, and it's fairly obvious where you'll end up, ie. easily punishable by a simple wavedash ledgehog. Mashing tornado leaves you super prone to meteors. What does MK have that can get back quickly and SAFELY from below the stage?
Right, thanks for clarifying. I was never big into MK until his PM version :/
pick a special. any of them, several of which work entirely well for ledgehogging like downb, or you're feeling particularly lazy, edgehogging via an upward airdodge is ez pz
these things require you to actually have precision tho, so again: if you can't recover well, you're a bad player, straight-up
NightShadow6
Smash Journeyman
Just the mix up ability he has for recovery is good.
tripwire
Smash Journeyman
OK so I split my 1st time with 2.6 between MK, the new Lucas, and Ganon. All I can say so far is that MK is very awkward, has pretty good grab game, and good gimps some of which i died during the process of. Is he like a fast faller or something? I'll try to stick with him.
Does MK's boost grab give him any more distance than his regular dash grab?
I've been trying it, and most of the time it feels like I'm getting nothing extra out of it, but then other times I swear I get like an extra MK worth of distance. Either way, still worth doing because you get his dash attack sound effect playing on his dash grab which is pretty sweet.
I've been trying it, and most of the time it feels like I'm getting nothing extra out of it, but then other times I swear I get like an extra MK worth of distance. Either way, still worth doing because you get his dash attack sound effect playing on his dash grab which is pretty sweet.
tripwire
Smash Journeyman
An extra MK or an extra Teemo....lol. But I also noticed Mk having random long ass grabs.
Bryonato
Green Hat
it's also true. if you can't be bothered to deal with the technical requirements to deal with otherwise problematic situations, don't play that character
nearly all of the "janky problems" people are whining about with MK comes from the fact that they don't want to learn the solutions to these problems
nearly all of the "janky problems" people are whining about with MK comes from the fact that they don't want to learn the solutions to these problems
Nazo
Smash Journeyman
Comeback Kid
Smash Champion
MK has so many different recovery moves and set ups, he just doesn't have any single braindead easy recovery option that works in every situation like some character do, so it just seems like a bigger deficit than it actually is.
Which is why I advocate for harder recoveries overall, because it won't be seen as unfair if almost every character needs to work a little to get out of a good gimp game.
Which is why I advocate for harder recoveries overall, because it won't be seen as unfair if almost every character needs to work a little to get out of a good gimp game.
but then MK won't ever be considered top tier, man. I ain't getting him there, that's for sureYou just want everyone to drop MK so you can be the only MK main
I'm just stating that the dude's a character you aren't going to be ripping apart with day one. he got some o'them "technical traits" or w/e. gotta, uh, learn. I think you have to learn. I mean I've never learned ever, but I'm pretty sure
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Grab all daaaaaaay
Grab all niiiiiiight
Grab all niiiiiiight
PurDi
Smash Journeyman
I'm gonna admit, I was totally thinking of a different situation on my second post. I have an easy enough time recovering with him when the ledge is free (eg, after a gimp, or an offstage kill), the situation I have problems in is when I'm recovering and the opponent is still on stage. What would be preferred methods of recovering against, say, an edgeguarding marth?
Also, thanks for the instant DC forward recommendation. It's working wonders as a mixup for my techchases.
Grab is too good. That is all.
Also, thanks for the instant DC forward recommendation. It's working wonders as a mixup for my techchases.
Grab is too good. That is all.
Wizzy, plup and I will be streaming this Sunday. Plup's MK is incredibly good. Positive he understands he character better than anyone else atm. It'll be very good evidence to show mk's true potential, since plup is also a extremely high caliber melee player. If you wanna see how a mk should be played, watch our stream this Sunday.
http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios
Btw mk top3.
http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios
Btw mk top3.
Aenglaan
Smash Apprentice
It goes without saying that his horizontal recovery is probably the best in the game, but for Meta Knight, his vertical recovery is lacking.
The Dimensional Cape has a learning curve when used as a recovery due to the delay between activating the move and actually disappearing. If there is enough distance between Meta Knight and the edge, he'll be able to actually successfully recover. If not, he is at a serious risk of getting either getting the edge stolen from him, or getting spiked/ Meteor Smashed.
The Tornado, as I see it, has the lowest learning curve for new players and can work fairly well against those who are edge guarding. It has a decent speed, and it typically forces the person edge guarding to resort to some sort of defense or evasion.
Shuttle Loop, while amazing for horizontal recoveries, is a hit-or-miss move for Meta Knight. You can recover vertically with it, but not as well as compared to the horizontal range with it. Furthermore, a reverse Shuttle Loop can be very difficult to pull off, especially when Meta Knight has better options for recovering.
The Dimensional Cape has a learning curve when used as a recovery due to the delay between activating the move and actually disappearing. If there is enough distance between Meta Knight and the edge, he'll be able to actually successfully recover. If not, he is at a serious risk of getting either getting the edge stolen from him, or getting spiked/ Meteor Smashed.
The Tornado, as I see it, has the lowest learning curve for new players and can work fairly well against those who are edge guarding. It has a decent speed, and it typically forces the person edge guarding to resort to some sort of defense or evasion.
oh man, good MK players starting to pop up? fuuuuuck yessssssssss I'm down a thousand times over
PurDi
Smash Journeyman
Not exactly sure WHEN exaclty, it's kinda just when everyone gets there. But I'd assume it would start somewhere in between 12-2. And we'll be streaming all day since its my Bday
Yeah, Plup beats me and wizzy like 95% of the time with MK hahaha
JTsm
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2010
- Messages
- 3,230
Have a long cool down then
MK had a LOT of people playing him at Low Tier City this weekend in singles and doubles. My opinion of him changed a bit. I think he's got a somewhat janky kit, and he's kind of getting massively carried by how fast he can cover ground. Very much like Falcon/Fox in that regard because stuff only starts working out due to ridiculous run/dash speed and momentum carried over from running SH. You had to respect that part of the character, not because of diverse or interesting choices but because he's very similar to an old school Melee top tier.
I'm interested and afraid at the same time to see where people will take MK as the game goes on, because I feel like his ground game potential is too good for people to be flying around with SH aerials and Dairs and x options. The guy generates pressure in the same way that Fox Falcon Marth Sheik etc do by being real fast. I'm never gonna be super interested in playing MK, but heed my words. Staying grounded with him is super strong, don't waste your fun doing acrobatics.
I'm interested and afraid at the same time to see where people will take MK as the game goes on, because I feel like his ground game potential is too good for people to be flying around with SH aerials and Dairs and x options. The guy generates pressure in the same way that Fox Falcon Marth Sheik etc do by being real fast. I'm never gonna be super interested in playing MK, but heed my words. Staying grounded with him is super strong, don't waste your fun doing acrobatics.
but but but has ~14 jumps
y no air
falco prefers air so mk too pls
But seriously, his ground game is fantastic. He gets to have a Marth dash dance with like Sheik speed, his grabs are awesome as are his throws, he has great tilts (not you Utilt
), plus his ground to air mobility is like mini Falcon which gives him excellent flow from ground to air. Then you can top it off with his air game flowing well back into his ground game. Delicious.
y no air
falco prefers air so mk too pls
But seriously, his ground game is fantastic. He gets to have a Marth dash dance with like Sheik speed, his grabs are awesome as are his throws, he has great tilts (not you Utilt
), plus his ground to air mobility is like mini Falcon which gives him excellent flow from ground to air. Then you can top it off with his air game flowing well back into his ground game. Delicious.
SmashCentralOfficial
Voice of SmashCentralOfficial
QFT.
Anyone who has this "If you can't do _____ with MetaKnight then you're bad with him" attitude needs to stop stroking their Metaknight chubby. His weight and fall speed allows him to be combo'd very easily, and his "combos" seem very hit-and-run. By that I mean you get a hit or two, chase your opponent, and get another hit or two. Unlike the rest of the cast it seems as if he only has 2-4 move combo's as opposed to 6-8 move combos.
Bryonato
Green Hat
I've been noticing this over the past few weeks as well. Mk is a guerrilla/attrition character that relies on trades and movement to get in/out quickly
Naughty Pixel
Smash Apprentice
Jab leads to a grab at low/mid percents on the majority of the cast from what I've observed. The last hit knocks them away and they land awkwardly but not grounded, where you can grab them.
Bryonato
Green Hat
I love jab in this game especially considering how useless it was in vBrawl.
SmashCentralOfficial
Voice of SmashCentralOfficial
MK's onstage edgeguarding is pretty solid. Doesn't need to fly way out there when he can trap your options getting back on. Most MK players there (at LTC) didn't really fly out unless you were Falcon Ganon etc. Fsmash Dsmash Tilts and onstage Nair seemed to cover a ton.
His offstage edge guarding I think is weak only because he doesn't have a good answer to people coming from below/diagonal. Like if a Marth wants to drift a bit and Upb from below, your brain would normally scream DAIR HIM DAIR HIM, but that's not an option unless you're ahead or want to trade (or possibly die. Infinity did the Dair suicide trying to trade stocks with me in teams one, and I got out and lived by the grace of god). When people come from below sure you can try to go for the edge and Nair or edge guard from onstage. but that IS the weakness about his edgeguarding (the other being that his horizontal kill/gimp potential from aerials is pretty low. A full blown Nair at like 90 offstage isn't even that nasty to eat up a lot of the time, and stuff like Fair will send you upwards so he has to think carefully, and let's not pretend Bair offstage will always work) Most decent characters make you think twice about going low: Fox Shine, Falco Dair, Sheik needles, Marth Dair Falcon stomp etc. MK only makes it risky if it's favorable to Dair in the first place. When people go low, unless you are 100% for sure your option is gonna hit, it's not good to drop down and falling Bair or Nair or x.
His offstage edge guarding I think is weak only because he doesn't have a good answer to people coming from below/diagonal. Like if a Marth wants to drift a bit and Upb from below, your brain would normally scream DAIR HIM DAIR HIM, but that's not an option unless you're ahead or want to trade (or possibly die. Infinity did the Dair suicide trying to trade stocks with me in teams one, and I got out and lived by the grace of god). When people come from below sure you can try to go for the edge and Nair or edge guard from onstage. but that IS the weakness about his edgeguarding (the other being that his horizontal kill/gimp potential from aerials is pretty low. A full blown Nair at like 90 offstage isn't even that nasty to eat up a lot of the time, and stuff like Fair will send you upwards so he has to think carefully, and let's not pretend Bair offstage will always work) Most decent characters make you think twice about going low: Fox Shine, Falco Dair, Sheik needles, Marth Dair Falcon stomp etc. MK only makes it risky if it's favorable to Dair in the first place. When people go low, unless you are 100% for sure your option is gonna hit, it's not good to drop down and falling Bair or Nair or x.
SmashCentralOfficial
Voice of SmashCentralOfficial
PhantasyStar
Smash Apprentice
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Metaknight is fun. I'll consider him my P;M main...or secondary...
shadow0x0cloud
Smash Apprentice
IDC on the ledge is pretty good when they're trying to sweet spot the ledge. You can do the slash and then turn around to grab the ledge afterwards.
Bryonato
Green Hat
To be fair you can get pretty low considering if you jump and instant Uair you gain vertical distance. I think you can get rather low with bair too if you so choose too. His onstage edgeguard is definitely stronger as suggested but he still has good options offstage imo.
GingaBread
Smash Cadet
Agreed. I feel like too many people are complaining about MK not adapting their playing style instead of adapting their play style to MK's move set. Sometimes I wish PM wasn't a demo so people would just accept the characters the way they are and find the ways to make them viable for their play style.
Naughty Pixel
Smash Apprentice
I was super salty about his recovery, having played him a bit in brawl and how good his up b was in that engine. Now though i love everything about him. Note the only time i get salty off stage is when i accidentally input a d air. He has so many tools at his disposal from his dash speed, quick strong aerials, powerful out of shield options, tech chases like a boss,great disjointed hit boxes, good finishers.
What's there to complain about? his recovery? adapt.
What's there to complain about? his recovery? adapt.