Melee Techniques Being Left out of Brawl

[TheBuzzSaw]

You only cheat against her by being better at Smash right?

Yes, but she cheats against me too. >_>

 

[sugarpoultry]

Yes, but she cheats against me too. >_>

I wavedashed yesterday and played some seriously evil mind games on him. MWAHAHAHAHA!!!


But... I still lost.

 

[Mama]

Well, see that still just isn't true. Please stop being a douche for a minute and realize that I agree with you that Smash can not be compared to real life. I didnt make the analogy, someone else did. I just pointed out the analogy sucks (cause it does). You can't compare real life events like that with exploits in a game engine when there is no broken physics in the real world to exploit.

Read the last sentence cup cake. We aren't comparing real life with games we're comparing competition with competition.

 

[eternalmadila]

I really wonder what the average age is on this form. Its like you are all a bunch of kids.. oh you called it a glitch.. but no really its an exploit… and you’re a noob .. and im a 1337 techer so I know best and game should be this way …..and oh this is not fair.. no this is fair you have no idea what your talking about… here let me define this word for you because that obviously means I am proving you wrong now… snicker snicker snicker … I am rite because I can enter into google “define:lame smasher” …. Why does this one little move cause such uproar… Smash has always been an amazing game long before the wavedash… and it will be an amazing game without it again … a new emphasis on aerial fighting is just what the series needs…. I mean who doesn’t love awesome aerial battles… And complaining about this one little thing not making it over is just crazy… I mean if you did want just an upgraded melee .. well then how about you just go play the halo series… because obviously you want the same game over and over again with just more bells and whistles… As a Nintendo fan boy I pride my self in backing a company that strives to innovate … not produce “generic game copy 7”… I am sure there will be plenty of innovation in the new smash to make all happy… so please .. let go of the one silly little trick that didn’t make it into the game…

 

[shortwanabelaker]

i think l canceling wud be ok if the timing was easier

 

[FalconPunch]

The timing is easy.

 

[Smilez]

If you didn't want to play Melee competitively why the hell are you on this forumn...go watch some anime or something. I just don't get it. Whats the purpose of a "casual" player ranting about glitches and exploits. If your a casual player it shouldn't make a bit of difference. You shouldn't give two s**** about wave-dashing. Wave-dashing and L-cancel are competitive tactics. If you can't do them I personally think you are ******** b/c they are easy as hell. I you want to win learn them if you don't stfu and go play a lvl 9 computer.(And still lose) I can see right threw your idiotic whiny post...."I know how to L-cancel, I just don't do it." BULL you know how to do it but you STILL suck at it!!! Go practice or go home. SWF wasn't made for losers who aren't willing to practice and adapt. -Peace "Nubz"

 

[FalconPunch]

While I mostly agree with you, your harsh, elitist attitude is what brings about the stereotype of competitive smashers.

 

[mezbomber]

replace words like scrubs/noob/competitive/serious/casual with words like "liberal" and "conservative", and it looks like we're no better than people *****ing about politics.

what's with this "you're with us or against us" attitude that seems to be taking over the smashboards? What's with all the name-calling and labeling? What's with all the disrespect of people simply playing this game the way the enjoy it? People worship differently, and people play smash differently.

no more threads about this please
I enjoyed these forums when they were informative and I didn't have to scroll through three pages of topics that were all about the same thing.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Failed means it was wrong, which it wasnt. Failed means it was untruthful, which it wasnt.
Also, i have grounds to mark your reply as "Failed"because it did not state reason for failing.

OK, how's this? Using fast attacks, different characters and different moves and comparing it to something like this topic is beyond idiotic. Different characters are different for a reason and have different attacks for a reason, it's called balance, and the team SPECIFICALLY put in multiple characters because it would be boring to play with just 1 character in the game, and because each have a different balance. Some are big and heavy and powerful but slow, some are small and nimble and fast but not so strong. Your comparison was just stupid, and it failed at trying to mock me.

If you didn't want to play Melee competitively why the hell are you on this forumn...go watch some anime or something. I just don't get it.

Because this is a Smash Bros. Forum. Not a wavedashers fanforum. I can be a fan of Smash Bros., and still not support wavedashing and L-canceling tactics.

 

[Junpappy]

Your balance argument is insubstantial because the game would not be balanced with or without these techniques. If anything, I would say that wavedashing and l-canceling makes the game more balanced, because it gives slower characters the ability to move faster and compete with faster characters.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Your balance argument is insubstantial because the game would not be balanced with or without these techniques. If anything, I would say that wavedashing and l-canceling makes the game more balanced, because it gives slower characters the ability to move faster and compete with faster characters.

So therefore, slower characters like Bowser, would now have Power AND speed, while characters like Jigglypuff, have speed, but are left without the power of the burlier ones? That is NOT balance.

 

[Junpappy]

Jigglypuff had power and speed. Bowser only has power. With wavedashing and l-canceling, suddenly Bowser has power, and a little bit more speed. Why does that make it less balanced?

 

[Dogenzaka]

Well what part don't you understand?

The slower burlier characters, like Donkey Kong, have power, but they're not that fast.

The quick and nimbler characters, like Kirby and Jigglypuff, have speed, but are not as powerful as the other characters, and are quite lightweight.

You add wavedashing to the mix, and you only make slow, powerful characters faster, so now they have almost no weakness in their stats.

 

[NES n00b]

Well what part don't you understand?

The slower burlier characters, like Donkey Kong, have power, but they're not that fast.

The quick and nimbler characters, like Kirby and Jigglypuff, have speed, but are not as powerful as the other characters, and are quite lightweight.

You add wavedashing to the mix, and you only make slow, powerful characters faster, so now they have almost no weakness in their stats.

Fail. . . . . . big time.

 

[Junpappy]

If you're still talking about Melee (which I don't think you are because you're describing the slower characters like they would be godly with wavedashing and l-canceling) I think it is you who doesn't understand.

Jigglypuff IS INNATELY BETTER THAN BOWSER. SHE IS INNATELY MORE POWERFUL, BECAUSE SHE IS INNATELY ABLE TO DO DAMAGE AND KILL OPPONENTS BETTER THAN BOWSER. You give them both the ability to wavedash and l-cancel, and suddenly Bowser stands more of a chance than he did before. THAT MEANS THE GAME IS MORE BALANCED WITH THESE TECHNIQUES. The only unbalance you speak of is the unbalance between players that use it and players that don't use it, and that unbalance only exists because the players that don't use it choose not to use it, or are incapable of learning to use it.

 

[Dogenzaka]

If you're still talking about Melee (which I don't think you are because you're describing the slower characters like they would be godly with wavedashing and l-canceling) I think it is you who doesn't understand.

Jigglypuff IS INNATELY BETTER THAN BOWSER. SHE IS INNATELY MORE POWERFUL, BECAUSE SHE IS INNATELY ABLE TO DO DAMAGE AND KILL OPPONENTS BETTER THAN BOWSER. You give them both the ability to wavedash and l-cancel, and suddenly Bowser stands more of a chance than he did before. THAT MEANS THE GAME IS MORE BALANCED WITH THESE TECHNIQUES. The only unbalance you speak of is the unbalance between players that use it and players that don't use it, and that unbalance only exists because the players that don't use it choose not to use it, or are incapable of learning to use it.

Ok well those characters were bad examples, what I mean is.

We have slow, powerful characters, and fast, ok (in terms of power) characters.

Wavedashing combined with the slower powerful characters makes them faster, so it kind of fills in their weakness, no?

 

[Team Giza]

So therefore, slower characters like Bowser, would now have Power AND speed, while characters like Jigglypuff, have speed, but are left without the power of the burlier ones? That is NOT balance.

For this to make sense Bowser would have to be better than Jigglypuff when wavedashing is applied... which is totally false.

 

[FierceDeityWolf]

Oh Lords not another one, there's already one of these (WD specific) by Mew2King

 

[Junpappy]

Ok well those characters were bad examples, what I mean is.

We have slow, powerful characters, and fast, ok (in terms of power) characters.

Wavedashing combined with the slower powerful characters makes them faster, so it kind of fills in their weakness, no?

It does fill in their weakness, but thats what makes it more balanced, because they are overall innately weaker than faster characters.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Oh Lords not another one, there's already one of these (WD specific) by Mew2King

We've been discussing rationally for the past day or so in this thread. We got good debate going, which promotes insight and inspiration. Wanna join?

For this to make sense Bowser would have to be better than Jigglypuff when wavedashing is applied... which is totally false.

Yeah you're infinitely right, that was a bad example. Just when it came to light characters, Jiggly came to mind, and when I thought of heavy characters, Bowser came to mind XD

 

[shortwanabelaker]

The timing is easy.

so the first time u learned about it.. u were able to l-cancel every possible ariel?

 

[FierceDeityWolf]

We've been discussing rationally for the past day or so in this thread. We got good debate going, which promotes insight and inspiration. Wanna join?



Yeah you're infinitely right, that was a bad example. Just when it came to light characters, Jiggly came to mind, and when I thought of heavy characters, Bowser came to mind XD

No thanks, too lazy.. Besides, my bro is using my pc (older bro, so.. yeah. **** him visiting) so Im typing on the effin' Wii.

 

[Gojira]

Let me explain, WHY, I think they should be out, for the fairness of the community, not to cater to the Pros.

The minority of Smash players know how to pull off these techniques. It's much easier to level out the playing field by taking them out, rather than forcing the majority of Smash players to learn these techniques.

SSBM has sold nearly 8 million copies, even if you assume that every member of SmashBoards and the old Nsider forums were avid Wavedash/L-Cancel users, the headcount combined hardly surpass 100,000

I would call that a minority. Therefore, I doubt they are going to cater these techniques and glitches to the minority that know them, especially when the profit comes from casual gamers nowadays, which is the expanding market.

These techniques leave the people who can pull them off at an advantage. A decent player and a decent player that knows L-cancelling and wavedashing, who has the advantage?

I'm sure I speak for many when I say I don't want the Smash Bros. Brawl online community to become that of Mario Kart DS and snaking. Sure, it leaves those who knows these techniques at an advantage, but it leaves every one else at a disadvantage, and is just no fun when you see people zipping around the track at a million miles per hour, just like how it wouldn't be fun for this majority of Smash players who don't know techniques like wavedashing, L-canceling, etc. to join an online match and be pummeled by people zipping around the stage and canceling out the lag.

Even though you can say "Just learn to do it!" doesn't change that a Wavedash/L-Cancel user is the one with the Advantage because of exploiting something in the game, even if both players are equally skilled, the one doing the exploiting gets the advantage

And I'm not saying this because I can't do it, I play SSB64 and Melee at a competitive level and can L/Z-cancel and Wavedash just fine, but when I'm playing with friends and they can't commit time and practice towards Wavedashing and the like...they're not going to be having an enjoyable time playing against someone who does.

I personally think SSB's experience would benefit from it being taken out, making it so that people like my friends can have more fun with the game even if playing against someone who puts more effort into the game like me. You can accept that you lose to someone because you messed up or you acknowledge that the person you're playing is better than you, it's harder to do that when it seems like you lost because he's exploiting something to get an advantage that you're not. It levels out the playing field.

Those are my two cents.

And those of you who are going to be like "Zomg not again" and flame me, don't bother to post.

I dont know if someone has said this yet because there are ALOT of posts.....

your whole post was a pointless rant. Advanced tactics seperate the good from the bad, period. There is nothing wrong with keeping old or putting new advanced stuff in even if they are exploits. Why? because only those that want to take it smash to a competitive level will take the time to learn all of them. "Casuals gamers", will probably never hear about them nor take the time to practice with them, and still have a blast playing the game, I dont know what your smoking.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

I dont know if someone has said this yet because there are ALOT of posts.....

your whole post was a pointless rant. Advanced tactics seperate the good from the bad, period. There is nothing wrong with keeping old or putting new advanced stuff in even if they are exploits. Why? because only those that want to take it smash to a competitive level will take the time to learn all of them. "Casuals gamers", will probably never hear about them nor take the time to practice with them, and still have a blast playing the game, I dont know what your smoking.

QFT.

10 chars

 

[Red Exodus]

I dont know if someone has said this yet because there are ALOT of posts.....

your whole post was a pointless rant. Advanced tactics seperate the good from the bad, period. There is nothing wrong with keeping old or putting new advanced stuff in even if they are exploits. Why? because only those that want to take it smash to a competitive level will take the time to learn all of them. "Casuals gamers", will probably never hear about them nor take the time to practice with them, and still have a blast playing the game, I dont know what your smoking.

Dog won't accept that, apparently we are cheaters are we aren't playing the game the correct way.

 

[Linkster47]

Dead horse for brawl! This debate is pointless and isn't going anywhere. It is regurgurating the same oppinions from earliar pages and reusing them, it is also like many posts before it

 

[Dogenzaka]

Dog won't accept that, apparently we are cheaters are we aren't playing the game the correct way.

Never said that lol. Read moar.

I told that to the person who specifically said "I use cheap altruistic techniques and anyone who doesn't is low-level". I called THAT person a cheater, because he said he uses cheap altruistic techniques, and anyone who doesn't, is low-level, which is downright idiocy.

I also never told you how to play your game.

your whole post was a pointless rant.

So is yours, especially since it's been taken out of Brawl, only it spans the opposite opinion. Everyone's opinion is a pointless rant, that doesn't mean everyone should stop posting. It's called discussion. Debate. Argument. If you're too immature to take it, leave.

Dead horse for brawl! This debate is pointless and isn't going anywhere. It is regurgurating the same oppinions from earliar pages and reusing them, it is also like many posts before it

Yeah.

 

[Gojira]

NSo is yours, especially since it's been taken out of Brawl, only it spans the opposite opinion. Everyone's opinion is a pointless rant, that doesn't mean everyone should stop posting. It's called discussion. Debate. Argument. If you're too immature to take it, leave.

You are starting a debate that is halted by my response, and the fact that this has been talked about many times before.

Serious people will use the exploits, non-serious wont. It is THAT simple. If a serious player plays a non-serious player and the non-serious keeps complaining because he cant do what the other person is doing he should shut up and take the time to learn what his opponet is doing to get better or just STFU and keep playing it the way he likes to play it, in a fun non-serious manner.

 

[Gojira]

Ok well those characters were bad examples, what I mean is.

We have slow, powerful characters, and fast, ok (in terms of power) characters.

Wavedashing combined with the slower powerful characters makes them faster, so it kind of fills in their weakness, no?

im sorry if i double post but LMFAO. Bowser + wavedash does not remove his weaknesses AT ALL.

Here is a good example. A character like jigglypuss doesnt need wavedash because she has limited uses for it as well as L-Cancels. A character like ICe climbers need to add the wavedash and L-cancel to their game to make them faster and stand on the same competetive level as jiggs. Wavedash is not =lly useful for all characters.

and CREA, your a noob for saying jiggs is stronger then bowser.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I told that to the person who specifically said "I use cheap altruistic techniques and anyone who doesn't is low-level". I called THAT person a cheater, because he said he uses cheap altruistic techniques, and anyone who doesn't, is low-level, which is downright idiocy.

That would be me. I made that statement because you insist on inserting absurd descriptions and biased subjections when describing our style of play, so I regurgitated the whole statement back to you. And I still stand by my statement: anyone who does not use it is low-level. You can take offense all you want (I do recall you calling me jerk shortly after), but the fact remains that you will lose if you decide to restrict yourself by not taking advantage of advanced techniques. How does this not make you low-level? I never said it to insult you. I said it because it is a fact! You will lose. That is not a sign of idiocy on my part despite what you may believe. The almighty Aniki may not use wavedashing often, but you can rest assured that he uses L-canceling (Link would be unable to compete without it).

By extension, you are calling everyone cheaters because everyone uses the same tactics I do.

 

[Mama]

End the discussion with this link

I'll probably be posting that a lot for a while.

 

[NES n00b]

End the discussion with this link

I'll probably be posting that a lot for a while.

It needed to be done. . . . . .

FALCON PUNCH!

 

[Red Exodus]

That won't work, we need this:

 

[Xengri]

I'm shocked to see that this thread got 40 pages........

 

[Dogenzaka]

I made that statement because you insist on inserting absurd descriptions and biased subjections when describing our style of play,

Your description and opinion is just as biased because you're on the opposite side of argument.

And I still stand by my statement: anyone who does not use it is low-level.

Then your statement makes you look like a fool. Using exploits does not make you l33t high-level. Like others have said, using exploits does not even make you a worthy smash player. It's your skill with or WITHOUT the exploits that matters.

but the fact remains that you will lose if you decide to restrict yourself by not taking advantage of advanced techniques.

Not anymore.

How does this not make you low-level? I never said it to insult you. I said it because it is a fact! You will lose.

Read first quote.

(Link would be unable to compete without it).

I'm sure people used Link before wavedashing/l-cancel was discovered. You make it sound as if people have to wavedash and L-cancel to be any good; you almost sound smug.

you are calling everyone cheaters because everyone uses the same tactics I do.

Foolish generalizations. "Everyone"? Try, maybe a few hundred thousand Smash Players in all of the 8 million copies of Melee alone, at the very MOST. That is HARDLY "everyone" lol. 1/4th of my city's population is more than there are probably people who exploit Smash glitches/techniques.

End the discussion with this link

I'll probably be posting that a lot for a while.

No person listens to that link because it's redundantly, and mockingly the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while. It's a set of etiquette, terms, and standards set by some basement-dwelling neanderthal who thinks it's funny to spend hours writing a rule list on terms that don't exist outside internet vocabulary and unneeded regulations written in lulz format to try and sound as if they're intelligent enough to have the right to label and insultingly mock various personas. "Scrubz JOHN LOLOLOLZROFL". It sounds like a group of miscreants programmed to record skip 80's playground slang on the web. Internet culture is so embarassing.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

End the discussion with this link

I'll probably be posting that a lot for a while.

ARRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!


THE ONLY THING YOU NEED TO IN ORDER TO PLAY TO WIN IS THE MINDSET THAT YOU WISH TO WIN!!!!!!!


NOTHING MORE!!!

 

[Dogenzaka]

I play to win lol.

 

[sugarpoultry]

I play to win lol.

I thought a while ago you said you played to have fun?

 

[Dogenzaka]

I thought a while ago you said you played to have fun?

Winning's fun. lol.