Melee Techniques Being Left out of Brawl

[Mama]

Perhaps it was an accident in SSB64. But because L-canceling was near unheard of back then, they never realized the mistake they made, and therefore never bothered to fix something they never knew was broken?

Just a thought.



But it is true :/



Of course with people who can pull them off, but if you throw someone who knows these techniques with others who don't, it becomes frustrating to the others.



You've been reported a third time. Enjoy your ban.



Because your logic is "EVERYONE HAS TO LEARN IT IF THEY WANT TO PLAY".



You assume I can't do it lol.

Melee runs on a different engine for starters. L-canceling was not unheard of back then....

People explained black people (much like myself) in a negative light to people who knew nothing and we all know how that went. And yes I just compared your behavior toward these things to discrimination...

If the people get frustrated then teach them. They don't all have to be like you. They may want to actually try and get better. And stop bugging the mods. I've yet to cross that line that would warrant any such thing as a ban lulz

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Of course with people who can pull them off, but if you throw someone who knows these techniques with others who don't, it becomes frustrating to the others.

And that is life. I don't know why you cleave unto this argument. You are basically stating that experience is unfair. Practice is unfair. Knowledge is unfair. Muscle memory is unfair. Memorizing is unfair. Adapting is unfair.

[size="+2"]Why on earth are these people playing smash if that is their problem???[/size]

Like I said, go play Candy Land. In that game, a 50 year veteran has just as much a chance of winning as a first time player. I don't know what games you like to play, but I will never play any where experience and practice have no bearing on my ability to win.

 

[Vijin]

My example was assuming he was able to pull them off. Ugh.

I know that was what your example was. But your examplewasn't very realistic, either.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Melee runs on a different engine for starters. L-canceling was not unheard of back then....

It's practically unheard of nowadays as well. The internet is not the whole world you know. My friends, who don't spend their time on Smash Bros. forums, do not know about wavedashing. That's reality. The real world doesn't know about these techniques. Only the internet lurkers.

You are basically stating that experience is unfair.

They're unrelated. Experience =/= wavedashing.

Why on earth are these people playing smash if that is their problem???

Because we play for fun.

If the people get frustrated then teach them. They don't all have to be like you. They may want to actually try and get better.

What part of "I can wavedash and L-cancel" don't you understand?

People explained black people (much like myself) in a negative light to people who knew nothing and we all know how that went. And yes I just compared your behavior toward these things to discrimination...

I've discriminated NO ONE. You, if anyone, have no right to comment, since almost everyone of your posts has had a personal attack so far.

 

[sugarpoultry]

What do you mean?

It means that techniques are a part of skills.

Here I'll use this little analogy: I am a flute player. I have to practice 2 hours a day. Our techniques are our practices, our scales, our eludes, and several other "advanced techniques" to create a better sound.

Some flute players would say I am "cheep" and I play way too good, win all the competitions and always get first chair and play all the solos in all of the orchestras and bands. They call it "cheep", but what did I do? I used my techniques to improve my flute playing skills. We do things that weren't originally intended by the creators of the flute to sound good. Does it make it wrong? No, does it make it cheep? No. Because if it sounds good, it's good. It is a technique used in order to be a better flute player.

Now, use this in the gaming world. Same thing. Like the flute player, we are doing things that weren't originally intended by the game creator. Does it make it wrong? No, does it make it cheep? No. If you play good, it is a good technique used in order to be a better gamer.

Lets just say (metaphorically speaking) I feel sorry for all the flute players who don't practice their "techniques" to become a better musician.

 

[Anther]

Perhaps it was an accident in SSB64. But because L-canceling was near unheard of back then, they never realized the mistake they made, and therefore never bothered to fix something they never knew was broken?

Just a thought.

Not your judgement call, it's almost irrational to say that, especially since it's basically considered not to be broken.

But it is true :/

You just said something about a technique in a video game has "natural lag" removed. Irrational by merit that it was programmed that way.

Of course with people who can pull them off, but if you throw someone who knows these techniques with others who don't, it becomes frustrating to the others.

I'm sure its frustrating when I beat someone in tennis or basketball because they can't do what I can do because they never took the time to learn it. It's frustrating to them? If it really is they're whiners. They should embrace the opportunity to realize that the game they're playing is deeper than they once thought, and I should be the one frustrated because I can only practice my techniques while learning very little in terms of application.

I seriously thought about siding with you somewhat in this. Especially with how committed you are to this topic. But you're "arguing" for the sake of arguing. You're barely showing an understanding for the scope of copetitive play vs Casual play. Competitive players of everything dominate Casuals. Whether the technique be obscure or obvious. You're arguing on here about how something gives an unfair advantage to people who don't know about something. Learn it then. You're being a complete a-hole to a community of people that love and devote more time than any group that play the game. We don't care about little Sally or Susie that plays every so often. We don't care if they accidentally face someone that knows a lot more than they do at the game. Our game is deeper than yours. Don't play against us if you don't like it. It only takes one game to figure that out.

Because we play for fun.

So do we you're an jerk that places himself higher than smashers because you believe your idea of fun is better than ours.

 

[iankobe]

Yo, Dogenzaka.

I just want to tell you that I DO agree with you that at some point of the game, the advanced tactics DO make the game a lil less fun because it puts you in an advantage, and making you easier to win. But that only happens when you play noobs. What if you're playing with someone that ALSO knows these technical skills? I would believe that it would make the game fun also because you BOTH know them and its fair to both players. And the other reason why people found Lcanceling, WDing, is because we're taking the game to the next level. This is how you become competitive AND most imporntantly, MORE fun with MORE people.

I totally agree with you that these techniques make the game unfair, not fun, and "unnecessary", etc. But you know why? Its because you're not at our level. Of course we have the advantage of the game simply because of the techniques. But you can't blame on us for knowing them just because there are REGULAR people that doesn't know these techniques. It's actually their fault for not knowing them, their fault for always losing to us, their fault for playing against US. They KNOW they'll lose if they play us. I mean, if they want to enjoy the game fully, they should: 1) play with the REGULAR people who are at their level, 2) learn the techniques, or 3) don't play the game at all.

Let me give you an example. When basketball was first invented, DUNKING, was not there. And through all these ages, people started to practice a lot, trying to figure out the best way to shoot a basketball. And so people became better.

Now back to smash. Take dunking in bball as L-canceling in smash. If you're playing with someone that's been dunking all over you, of course it won't be fun. But what if you're the one that knows how to dunk, and you've been playing all these other people that also could dunk? and then all out of a sudden you play with a 5'5'' player. Clearly you'll have the advantage. But its not our fault for knowing how to dunk. Its the game. Its the nature of a competitive game.

Do you still understand the big picture? Again, I agree with you that these techniques take the fun out of the noobs, but I don't agree with you that they should be taken out.

Reply and we'll discuss.

 

[Mama]

It's practically unheard of nowadays as well. The internet is not the whole world you know. My friends, who don't spend their time on Smash Bros. forums, do not know about wavedashing. That's reality. The real world doesn't know about these techniques. Only the internet lurkers.

.

But the competitive gaming world does. Its not just Smash. Anyone who wants to play the game on a competitive level has got to get with the times and stop living in the past. Instead of understanding this you simply say that a person's opinion is wrong and that my good sir is flame baiting. Its silly. And you can't expect anyone to believe that you know how to do anything. All you've demonstrated is your incredible ability to whine, close your ears (eyes) and smile and wave.

You must not get out much. Melee is not the only fighting game in the world. Its not the only competitive game in the world. And in every competitive game the competitive tournament level players are always the minority. Smash is not unique in this aspect so why do you insist on believing that it is so?

Yo, Dogenzaka.

I just want to tell you that I DO agree with you that at some point of the game, the advanced tactics DO make the game a lil less fun because it puts you in an advantage, and making you easier to win. But that only happens when you play noobs. What if you're playing with someone that ALSO knows these technical skills? I would believe that it would make the game fun also because you BOTH know them and its fair to both players. And the other reason why people found Lcanceling, WDing, is because we're taking the game to the next level. This is how you become competitive AND most imporntantly, MORE fun with MORE people.

I totally agree with you that these techniques make the game unfair, not fun, and "unnecessary", etc. But you know why? Its because you're not at our level. Of course we have the advantage of the game simply because of the techniques. But you can't blame on us for knowing them just because there are REGULAR people that doesn't know these techniques. It's actually their fault for not knowing them, their fault for always losing to us, their fault for playing against US. They KNOW they'll lose if they play us. I mean, if they want to enjoy the game fully, they should: 1) play with the REGULAR people who are at their level, 2) learn the techniques, or 3) don't play the game at all.

Let me give you an example. When basketball was first invented, DUNKING, was not there. And through all these ages, people started to practice a lot, trying to figure out the best way to shoot a basketball. And so people became better.

Now back to smash. Take dunking in bball as L-canceling in smash. If you're playing with someone that's been dunking all over you, of course it won't be fun. But what if you're the one that knows how to dunk, and you've been playing all these other people that also could dunk? and then all out of a sudden you play with a 5'5'' player. Clearly you'll have the advantage. But its not our fault for knowing how to dunk. Its the game. Its the nature of a competitive game.

Do you still understand the big picture? Again, I agree with you that these techniques take the fun out of the noobs, but I don't agree with you that they should be taken out.

Reply and we'll discuss.

Thank you. Excellent open minded post lol.

"My old coach used to say that two points is two points....my old coach couldn't dunk"

The people that try to excel will excel. The people that get left in the dust must either choose to get better or sit and pout. None of them seem to see the option of just ignoring the high level play though and have fun with your friends though. lol

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

They're unrelated. Experience =/= wavedashing.

But you are complaining about something that is cheap when the same tactic is available to all players. You basically think winning is cheap. I have already proven that wavedashing is not a glitch. Saying it is a glitch is purely an emotional response. You always come back to "people don't have time to learn these techniques". Why is that not a valid excuse in other competitive environments? I dare you to enter a tournament of any kind (video games or sports) and declare the opponents tactics (whatever they may be) unfair since you didn't have time to practice those techniques, and see what the tournament host says.

Because we play for fun.

Since when did you have the audacity to define what fun is? We already said that we play for fun too. We just have fun in a different way! We draw excitement from competition! "Playing for fun" is the dumbest excuse ever because you make it sound like we live lives of slavery. Contrary to what you may believe, we like learning new techniques and working to become better. There is a sense of accomplishment in applying new tricks to the competition.

 

[Dogenzaka]

It means that techniques are a part of skills.

Well I personally consider wavedashing and L-canceling a technique that you can learn independant of your skill level.

Here I'll use this little analogy: I am a flute player. I have to practice 2 hours a day. Our techniques are our practices, our scales, our eludes, and several other "advanced techniques" to create a better sound.

I don't consider scales and eludes to compare to wavedashing and l-canceling, since one is a hidden technique, and the other you are almost required to know to be a good flute player.

Some flute players would say I am "cheep" and I play way too good, win all the competitions and always get first chair and play all the solos in all of the orchestras and bands. They call it "cheep", but what did I do? I used my techniques to improve my flute playing skills. We do things that weren't originally intended by the creators of the flute to sound good. Does it make it wrong? No, does it make it cheep? No. Because if it sounds good, it's good. It is a technique used in order to be a better flute player.

I kind of disagree, but I understand this logic much better than some others'

Now, use this in the gaming world. Same thing. Like the flute player, we are doing things that weren't originally intended by the game creator. Does it make it wrong? No, does it make it cheep? No. If you play good, it is a good technique used in order to be a better gamer.

Well not if you know them.
But if you don't know these techniques, I shouldn't be required to learn them if I want to play Brawl online and have any fun in the process :/

 

[Ixninjax]

I'm not sure. However, I don't know anyone that knows wavedashing in real life. That's how rare it is.

.

This further proves how little experience you have with advanced techniques. You need experience with ANYTHING before you can deduce an explanation for it. Ppl on these boards have literally years of experience with these moves, while you have very little. Please attend a few LEGIT tourneys before saying wavedashing is cheap, because you'll quickly learn that there are much "cheaper" moves out there (all of which you can get around).

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I don't consider scales and eludes to compare to wavedashing and l-canceling, since one is a hidden technique, and the other you are almost required to know to be a good flute player.

Wavedashing and L-canceling are not hidden techniques. Every smasher and their dog has access to this knowledge. The casual smashing world simply does not go to the effort to research anything. sugarpoultry is pointing out that these flute techniques were at one time hidden, but now they have been discovered, and, as you said, they are required to be a good flute player. Well, wavedashing and L-canceling (neither of which are glitches) are required to be good smash players!

 

[Junpappy]

If you've never been to a tournament, you'll never understand what the rest of the community accepts as a more "fun" way of playing Smash. There's no experience quite like traveling to an out of state tournament with tons of pros and getting to meet and hang out with well known smashers. Plus, getting ***** is really fun when you actually enjoy playing Smash.

 

[Dogenzaka]

I totally agree with you that these techniques make the game unfair, not fun, and "unnecessary", etc. But you know why? Its because you're not at our level.

Well i know how, but you're right. It's because they don't know how to pull of those techniques. But why should someone have to learn them to have a good time? That's my point.

You must not get out much.

Oh but I do. That's precisely the reason I hadn't heard of wavedashing until last fall.

Ow. I can't do this anymore. 9 posters to reply to everytime I post, and I've been doing it for the past, what, 9 hours?

I'll get carpal tunnel.

You need experience with ANYTHING before you can deduce an explanation for it.

Wait, what? that's not what I said. I said I'm not sure what their reaction would be.

This further proves how little experience you have with advanced techniques.

wtf how?

 

[Goldkirby]

I am not flame baiting ANYWHERE. I am discussing. I haven't insulted anyone, or personally attacked, or flamed anyone. If people decide to start a flame war, it's from their lack of self-control. Your argument is moot.



You can discuss with us or leave. We're having a fine discussion. There's no such thing as "flame baiting" or you can turn anything into "flame bait". This thread doesn't concern you.



I never mentioned honor.

People can discuss without babies going "OMG A DISCUSSION CLOSE TEH THREAD"



What do you mean?



My example was assuming he was able to pull them off. Ugh.

Since you don't seem to comprehend my points too well, let me make it clear for you.

1. This is a forum for competetive smashers. There is no way you wouln't have realized that by making this thread, you would creating a flame war.

2. Telling people to get out of your thread, despite what you think is flame baiting.

3. You don't need to insult people to flame bait, you may not see it, but the way you phrase a lot of your comments is flame baiting. Like I said, it's just more subtle.



I know on a different forum that I post on, the mods are more strict about threads like this, and I can assure you that you would have been banned by now.

 

[sugarpoultry]

I don't consider scales and eludes to compare to wavedashing and l-canceling, since one is a hidden technique, and the other you are almost required to know to be a good flute player.

Well, I really meant flute techniques. Things that I can't explain unless you are a flute player, but alternate fingerings, ways of blowing, little stuff like that is really what I was aiming at when compared to wavedashing and L-canceling. Literally not intended by flute makers though.

EDIT: Buzz pretty much summed up the rest. Thank you love. ^_^

 

[Vijin]

So we pretty much have a guy who's never been to a tournament before, arguing and saying that wavedashing and L canceling is cheap and unfair. It's like arguing that wheat bread is better than white bread without ever trying wheat bread.

 

[Anther]

You're right Mama.
He's incredibly closed minded.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Well i know how, but you're right. It's because they don't know how to pull of those techniques. But why should someone have to learn them to have a good time? That's my point.

This is where you are severely off base. You are implying with this statement that winning is fun, yes? So, obviously players are going to take steps to win more. If winning doesn't matter to have fun then why do all the advanced techs matter to you so much? Why can't they just take the beating and "have fun" while doing it? It's not about winning, right? If you want to even the playing field, use the handicap mode. Set it to AUTO and enjoy playing with scrubs! You still haven't explained properly how removing advanced techs would suddenly make the world a better place. >_>

 

[Dogenzaka]

1. This is a forum for competetive smashers. There is no way you wouln't have realized that by making this thread, you would creating a flame war.

This isn't a flame war. It's a discussion. A war consists of two sides flaming. I haven't flamed back. Also, I'm not going to agree with everyone to not piss people off. If people get pissed off, thats THEIR self-control issue, not my problem. Debate and discussion is healthy and it promotes insight and ingeniuity.

2. Telling people to get out of your thread, despite what you think is flame baiting.

I said you can either discuss or leave, because doing anything other than that would be spam. Against the rules.

3. You don't need to insult people to flame bait, you may not see it, but the way you phrase a lot of your comments is flame baiting. Like I said, it's just more subtle.

No? It's called discussing. Arguing. Debating. Whatever you want to call it.

So we pretty much have a guy who's never been to a tournament before

I have to have gone to a tournament to compete with people who can wavedash?

I'm not closed-minded just because I stand by my opinion. If I changed my opinions I'd be wishy-washy and hypocritical.

 

[Junpappy]

Well I personally consider wavedashing and L-canceling a technique that you can learn independent of your skill level.

You claimed that its hard for some people to learn these techniques. If skill level has nothing to do with learning these techs, and some people have a hard time learning these techs, that's sort of a fallacy in your argument, is it not?

Well not if you know them.
But if you don't know these techniques, I shouldn't be required to learn them if I want to play Brawl online and have any fun in the process :/

You shouldn't be required, but if you can't have fun by playing people who will use these techniques, you need to either reevaluate your ideal of fun, or you need to learn these techniques.

I have to have gone to a tournament to compete with people who can wavedash?

Yes; you can't possibly understand the joys of competitive smash if you've never played competitive smash, and playing competitive smash, entails playing smash competitively i.e. going to a tournament.

 

[sugarpoultry]

And just for the record Dog. I didn't get a point taken, nor do I think anyone else here has. You have reported WAY too many people, and that my good sir IS flame baiting. If anything, you are more likely to get a point taken than us.

 

[Dogenzaka]

And by the way. The frequency at how fast you guys post is too much for me. So I can't respond or even think clearly anymore since it's 3 AM here.

We can continue tomorrow when there are less posters so I can address people individually and thoughtfully, because right now I'm getting bombarded.

PM me if you must. My hands hurt from the typing however, and I am tired, and I hope the thread isn't closed when I wake up tomorrow, because we were actually discussing something I think worth being discussed, and it would be a shame for it to be closed simply because people are intimidated by these threads in their forums.

You have reported WAY too many people, and that my good sir IS flame baiting. If anything, you are more likely to get a point taken than us.

I reported two people, I just happened to report the other guy with the peach avatar about 2 or 3 times because he flamed me....more than two or three times.

Yes; you can't possibly understand the joys of competitive smash if you've never played competitive smash, and playing competitive smash, entails playing smash competitively i.e. going to a tournament.

I've competed competitively, just not at a formal tournament with a prize, etc.

 

[sugarpoultry]

I reported two people, I just happened to report the other guy with the peach avatar about 2 or 3 times because he flamed me....more than two or three times.

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned how many people who reported, but how many number of times you reported.

simply because people are intimidated by these threads in their forums.

More like "embarrassed" should be the more appropriate word used here...

 

[Junpappy]

Smashers are incredibly nice people, and tons of fun to hang out with. But if you have too much of a life to do that, then I guess thats your problem.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Why embarassed? There's nothing wrong with discussion. It's when the occassional person drops in and flames. That's something to be embarassed about.

Smashers are incredibly nice people, and tons of fun to hang out with.

I'm sure they are, I just don't know of any tournaments around me. Are there any near Houston, TX soon?

 

[Misto-Roboto]

It means that techniques are a part of skills.

Here I'll use this little analogy: I am a flute player. I have to practice 2 hours a day. Our techniques are our practices, our scales, our eludes, and several other "advanced techniques" to create a better sound.

Some flute players would say I am "cheep" and I play way too good, win all the competitions and always get first chair and play all the solos in all of the orchestras and bands. They call it "cheep", but what did I do? I used my techniques to improve my flute playing skills. We do things that weren't originally intended by the creators of the flute to sound good. Does it make it wrong? No, does it make it cheep? No. Because if it sounds good, it's good. It is a technique used in order to be a better flute player.

Now, use this in the gaming world. Same thing. Like the flute player, we are doing things that weren't originally intended by the game creator. Does it make it wrong? No, does it make it cheep? No. If you play good, it is a good technique used in order to be a better gamer.

Lets just say (metaphorically speaking) I feel sorry for all the flute players who don't practice their "techniques" to become a better musician.

You're analogy sucks for one reason, your logic is flawed. Some advanced techniques (in Melee) are exploits in the physics engine of the game. In order for your analogy to work, the flute player would need to break the laws of physics or exploit the laws of physics...somehow...for your example to work. Just saying...

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Contributing with all the analogies with sports, lets apply this logic to real life, because after all we all have lives. Whatever it was that created this world, big bang or God or whomever, humans were put into a world of certain fixed physics. Some force gave us physics (relation to a game engine) and left us here, whomever made the universe didn't give us some manual for making fire, swimming efficiently, or how to sprint faster... the players or humans made our own rules and our own techniques to survive and improve oneself. If you can't keep up with the rest, you bite the dust, its survival of the fittest around here. If there is a problem with you disliking the fact that your friends are advancing over you, than it appears you just have a fear of being left in the dust, if not than you wouldn't care so much about this thread.

I'm done with this thread. Dog lacks both the credibility and the logic necessary to continue this debate. This 'skill ladder' debate is pathetic, perhaps you just never worked on anything competitive in your life. It appears that your 'piece by piece' analysis to 'argue' against other post keeps you from looking at the big picture.

 

[Dogenzaka]

You're analogy sucks for one reason, your logic is flawed. Some advanced techniques (in Melee) are exploits in the physics engine of the game. In order for your analogy to work, the flute player would need to break the laws of physics or exploit the laws of physics...somehow...for your example to work. Just saying...

Yeah that's a point I would have tried to make if I could still think clearly xD ^^^^ what he said.

Dog lacks both the credibility and the logic necessary to continue this debate.

No >_> it comes down to opinion. My opinion is it should be out. You probably think otherwise, and believe I lack logic and credibility because I disagree.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

You're analogy sucks for one reason, your logic is flawed. Some advanced techniques (in Melee) are exploits in the physics engine of the game. In order for your analogy to work, the flute player would need to break the laws of physics or exploit the laws of physics...somehow...for your example to work. Just saying...

But neither wavedashing nor L-canceling are glitches or exploits. Those are the two techniques being discussed, so the analogy fits.

 

[Dogenzaka]

But neither wavedashing nor L-canceling are glitches or exploits.

I believe they're exploits :3

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I believe they're exploits :3

Even if that is so, sugarpoultry is exploiting the physics behind her flute. It was not designed to do some of the things she does, but she does them anyway because they work and make her better.

 

[Junpappy]

LOL it sucks that you only recently joined this forum, because there was a semi-national tournament in Houston about two weeks ago and it was super fun.

 

[Vijin]

I'm sure they are, I just don't know of any tournaments around me. Are there any near Houston, TX soon?

There could be tournaments being held literally no more than 5 mins from where you live. Goto the regional forums.

 

[Dogenzaka]

....
Just my luck -_-

We had some debate. Some discussion.

We looked at both ends of the argument. I still stand by my opinion as do others with theirs, but I think we got a bit more insight on both sides of the argument, and I believe we understand both sides a bit more probably.

I don't think there is a definitive right or wrong side to this, considering pros will want their techniques, and others won't, but rather your opinion on what you think.

The truth is it probably is out of Brawl, but meh. Perhaps there will be other techniques to exploit.

If there is anything else you feel the need to discuss, feel free to do so, but I'm going to bed and will answer tomorrow, but I think it already served its purpose and we already know how both sides feel. just wish it was possible to discuss without some of the flaming that went on.

Have a goodnight, guys.

 

[Anther]

That was seriously the best tournament I've been to Crea XD.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

But neither wavedashing nor L-canceling are glitches or exploits. Those are the two techniques being discussed, so the analogy fits.

See, I so saw that coming. Wave Dashing is an exploit as much as snaking is an exploit in F-Zero or Mario Kart DS.

Even if that is so, sugarpoultry is exploiting the physics behind her flute. It was not designed to do some of the things she does, but she does them anyway because they work and make her better.

Ok, that's just not true. You can't exploit the laws of physics. That's just silly...

 

[Anther]

lol... waaa waaa, people are going to exploit things...
I hate competing in anything because stuff gets exploited. It'd be so much easier if people didn't exploit so hard.

 

[Junpappy]

That was seriously the best tournament I've been to Crea XD.

Lol outside tournaments that last until 3:00 AM with giant displays are too good.

 

[RazeveX]

guys! HES RIGHT!!!

LETS MAKE SURE THAT WE ALWAYS PLAY DITTO MATCHES, BECAUSE ITS UNFAIR THAT SOME CHARACTERS HAVE DIFFERENT MOVES. ALSO, WE SHOULD PURPOSELY SLOW OUR REACTION TIMES AND STOP USING FAST ATTACKS TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD, BECAUSE NOOBS CANT DO IT. OF COURSE, THEY COULD TAKE A COUPLE OF HOURS AND FIGURE OUT HOW, BUT THATS CRAAAAAAAAAAAAZY.

noob.

oh, and since when is flaming against the rules? If that was true, it means that we pretty much cant disagree with anything posted EVER.