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Melee and Keeping It Alive (NOT A MELEE > BRAWL TOPIC)

Master WGS

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Link to original post: [drupal=1247]Melee and Keeping It Alive (NOT A MELEE > BRAWL TOPIC)[/drupal]



First and foremost, this is NOT A BRAWL VS MELEE BLOG. Don't do that here. I don't care WHICH side you're on, it doesn't matter. Leave your bias at the door.

My biggest fear for the years to come with Brawl's arrival isn't which game my friends will want to play. it's not about which tournaments will get the higher attendance. It's making sure BOTH games get to have a competitive scene that thrives and evolves. I fear that SWF might not be with me on this one.

Before you flip out and say that I'm only saying this because I'm a Melee-guy, let me stop you right there. Yes, I enjoy Melee more than Brawl, but by NO means do I hope Brawl's competitive scene fails/shrinks/ends. I want it to grow just as much as I want Melee to grow. Heck, I'd really like for 64 to make a comeback, even though it also isn't my cup of tea. I just feel that SWF has stifled it to the point of no return, and I'm really worried that Melee's going to have the same fate.

The SBR has posted the 'final' tier list for Melee, which sends up red-flags in my mind. A tier list will change/evolve so long as a game is being regularly played, and I'm REALLY hoping Melee stays that way. Sending out a "final" tier list is essentially saying this game has nowhere left to go, which I HIGHLY disagree with. Just because we have Brawl to play with, doesn't mean Melee is suddenly over. I'm sure new techs and such will be discovered within the next few years as long as people keep playing, which will only be possible if SWF keeps it alive.

Let me throw it to you this way: If Smashboards' top people (I.E., the Smash Back Room) start ignoring Melee, and stop giving us cool resources to work with with the game, it'll lose steam fast. With lower interest will make less tournaments happen. Less tournaments will result in less players. Fewer players makes the metagame evolution suddenly slow down. Dead metagame = Dead Competitive Scene.

I think us Melee veterans/Loyalists (again, I'm NOT SAYING MELEE IS BETTER, JUST THAT I PERSONALLY PREFER IT) will keep playing, but the game won't GROW, which is a problem.

I'm asking those of you in the SBR to step up, and give us Melee players faith that you'll stick with us too. I'm asking you skilled Melee players who lurk for tourneys and never contribute otherwise to pick up the torch those who played before brought to us. Let's make sure Melee has another healthy seven years next to its new sibling, Brawl.

How do YOU do this? Host tournaments. Share any and all information you gather during your games that you don't think anyone really knows/mentions. Let's get a Melee podcast going like Show Me Your News. Let's make a matchup chart. if the SBR really stops making tier lists, let's keep it going ourselves.

To all my fellow Melee players, let's keep this game alive. To the Brawl players: Please don't try and stifle our growth, and keep your game going too. Let's make the SMASH community (not the Brawl or Melee or 64) grow together and as a whole.

Please?
 

The_Altrox

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OMG!!! A MELEE VS. BRAWL TOPIC!!!
BRAWL >>>>>> MELEE!!!!!!!1!!!!!1!!!!1


But in all seriousness, we play Melee when we don't have a wii, or our melee friend comes over. So Melee is still alive with us. I love both games too, though I fail at melee...
 

Cinder

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Jag förstår inte. Vad sa du?
This topic makes meh happeh :B

Yes, I too love Melee (I think my thoughts on Brawl have become clear over the past few months XD)...I love it so much I started my own forum for Melee players =D
HA!!! ON TOPIC ADS FTW!!!
Melee 4 Lyfe
 

person701

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WGS, did I mention I love you.

Eh, wierd. j/k. Anyway, very good post. Like most other posts concernig metagame and such useful reasonuing, very true and good. I actually just found myself another tourny to attend (been almost a year ~.~) and within a month got a friend to love Melee with a passion.

Edit: rofl nice Cinder. ^
 

Red Arremer

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Even although after Street Fighter II last versions's release there have been many new Street Fighter games (3, 4, Zero 1-3), a lot of people still play Street Fighter II.

Even although after Super Smash Bros. (64) was outdated with Melee's release, people still played it. Even after Brawl's release people still play Smash 64 and Melee.

Melee will not die. No game with competetive gaming communites will ever die.

But I guess I maybe only have this impression because Melee is so extremely dominating the German-speaking area. =/
 

Geist

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well the way I see it, Brawl helped smash's competitive scene to a massive extent. The last thing I want to see is it collapse suddenly.
But I really don't want the melee players to shrink. I think the fact that Genesis is holding brawl and melee is the first step to awesomeness, and the next step towards competitive smash's future. But that's just my opinion.
 

Teran

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Good read, and I totally agree.

If any game holds competitive merit, it should never die just because a new game in the series was released. Melee is the game that really spearheaded Smash into a competitive scene, and being a person that loves everything Melee, seeing it die would be a disaster.
At the moment in Britain, Melee is still going strong, and I don't see much of a reason why that shouldn't be the case anywhere else.
I just recently started up a Melee club at school, (which I just came back from lol), and the interest is astounding.
Keep the spirit alive, and the game will never die.

Play Melee. <-- Obligatory Finish.
 

Teran

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Wow that's a good idea.
There were so many convenient coincidences. They were looking to get rid of the older but fantastic widescreen SDTV stations and replace them all with projectors.
Therefore, getting one of the TVs was easy, and there was a classroom vacant for the rest of the day from the moment Melee club starts.
My favourite moment was when one kid just strolled in and talked about how he was gonna beat everyone, then said in the match "So, how do I jump?"
Glares followed rofl.
Smash Bros, taking the arrogant scrub to a whole new level.
 

Master WGS

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Wow, I'm glad something I wrote on a whim at three in the morning has caught some people's attention/made them happy/made them... love... me?

Anyways, I've had the wheels in my head turning ever since I put the word podcast and Melee on the screen. Don't get me wrong: Even though I don't really play Brawl competitively, I LOVE Show Me Your News, and in NO WAY would I be trying to challenge them. If anything, I'd love for there to be a BUNCH of Smash related (Melee, Brawl or otherwise) podcasts to coexist.

Here's my idea for a Melee podcast that I MIGHT start up (Work + School + Melee Tournaments + Abridged Series + Social Life [lol] = busy busy busy): It'd basically be a biweekly, monthly, semi-monthly podcast (depending on how much I'd really have to work with at the time), and it'd be all about the Melee tournament scene in the Midwest (since that's my region, ya see). My cohost and I (Podcasts are no fun when you're all by yourself) would talk about upcoming tournaments, how the metagame looks like it's progressing, see which players are really beginning to shine (lol Fox puns), and maybe have winners/top placers of recent tournaments as guests on the show to talk about their experience.

If anyone wants to do this themselves, by ALL MEANS DO IT. I'm pretty busy with school lately, and I won't be offended at all if a podcast starts up without me. I'd much rather hear other people's opinions than listen to my own on a regular basis.

Oh, and I'm looking into venues... BIG venues to host more Melee/Brawl double tournaments because they're always awesome.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Oh, and I'm looking into venues... BIG venues to host more Melee/Brawl double tournaments because they're always awesome.
You should try ISP Brawl (look it up in the tactical discussion) at such events. People, who are bored with Brawl singles may find it more entertaining to play with certain items allowed.
This is something the brawl community never considered: Using alternate rulesets. Just because somebody finds the gameplay of the standard ruleset boring doesn't mean that the game is boring itself. Things like AllBrawl or the DA ruleset (all stages except 3 allowed, no CGs, no MK and other stuff) have never seen enough representation. It's not so much that Brawl is boring but just that certain things aren't considered (like custom stages, items etc). People just use the ruleset from Melee without making full use of the game's options.

...

Either way, I like this thread even though I haven't really played Melee...only for fun at times. I doubt I'll start playing it competitively though since I wanna be able to compete with more than just 4 characters ... also I don't seem to like that technical stuff ... but who knows. If it's fun I'll play it more and I might just start getting competitive either way.
Melee won't die anyways...there are more than enough Melee players from my experience (especially in the EU) and when I read threads about Melee + Brawl tournaments people still seem to prefer Melee. That's fine as long as people can have fun playing their game...if they don't have fun and don't care about the money they should just quit and stop *****ing about it.

Good thread.

:059:
 

Falconv1.0

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I kinda worry that the amount of new Melee players is shrinking and shrinking. I mean, eventually the vets will die/quit, whichever comes first, who will be there to take their place? I may be wrong but I have not seen too many new 'pros' in the melee scene appearing.
 

person701

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Tired of all the "this'll never be standard" bull****.

I kinda worry that the amount of new Melee players is shrinking and shrinking. I mean, eventually the vets will die/quit, whichever comes first, who will be there to take their place? I may be wrong but I have not seen too many new 'pros' in the melee scene appearing.
Quit being pesimistic =( Pretty much everything posted before this post are very good points that is Melee staying strong and how there really isn't all that much to hate about Brawl. Sure it's a different game, but how did we get all the fancy stuff Melee has? Some experimentation and luck/accedents. Brawl has A LOT of exploits within it's first year and all it needs to do now is experiment.

Melee and Brawl are, thinking in simple terms, the same game. Sure, Brawl has more characters/stages and Melee combos or what-have-you, they can each be just as popular. Melee has had it's ruleset stapled for years now. Brawl, while still evolving, just needs more time.

Personally, when I fiddle with Brawl and try to make it more faster paced and give it something decent to combos, I put on Havey Brawl and set Damage Ratio to 1.1. Brawl has some many new features added to it's multiplayer and I'm supprised the community hasn't taken advantage of them yet. Look at Halo 3 (yes, not a fighter but still holds my point very well). MLG has taken it's Forge mode and created maps, replaced weapons, blah blah blah.

My conclusion, Brawl can be just as good as Melee, you just need to find the personal/universal preferance. Expand too; Sakuria (or whatever :dizzy:) didn't just add Stage Builder or Special Brawl there for no reason.

Final word: experiment.
 

Circa

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I agree with everyone else on how this is a good read. It was also quite inspiring too, as you spoke a lot about how the games need to coexist in a competitive scene. Which...is how I'm going to bring up my little piece on this topic.

I believe that what you said about coexistence is actually the key to keeping Melee alive, especially with the added bonus of keeping Brawl alive as well. As it stands right now, I do believe that a great amount of tournaments only offer one or the other in terms of competitive play (I'm not entirely sure on this, however, so correct me if I'm wrong), and thus the competitive scene is automatically split because each side is not being able to witness the other scene. This also causes discrepancies between players, as some areas have nearly eliminated one game or the other (I believe I read something about SoCal being a big anti-Brawl area, but I'm not entirely sure anymore) and the players in that area that love that game that has been eliminated may begin to retaliate. Once this happens, the other side will defend itself and eventually an argument will break out. This then can cause disrespect between the two groups and even make some players never want to see the other side and what it has to offer. Thus, the chance of coexistence is eliminated as the competitive scenes of each game split more and more.

I hope that makes sense...but yeah. So basically, we need more Melee+Brawl tournaments to happen so that people can watch the other side and get some interest in it. Once this is done, the amount of new players to become eventual pros will increase.

Genesis is doing this, and I for one think that their choice is absolutely amazing for the gaming scene as a whole.

Now if only we could include some SSB64 too...I think that has potential as well as long as people are open to the idea and allow it. Start small and work it up. It's completely possible.
 

channlsrfr

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The power and the glory are Melee's, now and forever.

I'm lucky enough to live in SoCal, where Melee is alive and strong. That said, people new to Smash will almost always pick up Brawl first these days. The only way to ensure the survival of Melee in the long run is -- as you say here -- to make sure that wherever Brawl goes, Melee is there saying, "Hey, what up?" So starting clubs (well done, by the way -- great idea) and making "Smash" tourneys -- not just "Melee" or "Brawl" tourneys is the way to go.
 

Super_Sonic8677

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Master_WGS said:
You sir, win the internet. If more people here were like you, instead of the moronic brawl/melee haters, maybe SWF wouldn't be in the crappy shape it's in when it comes to brawl and melee.

Though I don't play Melee a whole lot anymore, GL to you guys trying to keep it alive ^^
 

Sukai

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turn around....
I agree with you on the Finalized Tier List, it can't be the be-all-end-all, especially now that people are trying to revive Melee.
64 seems to one sided, so I can't agree with you there.
The primary rule is you move on to the newer one. So it is understandable that Melee is becoming obscure.
Don't worry, people out there still like Melee, and they'll see to it that it stays alive.
I see a bright future for Melee, happening really soon.
 

rathy Aro

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I think Melee well become like 64 but a little more widely played. I think everyone who is and was good it will continue playing or come back to it at some point or another to continue playing but it has no potential to grow. Brawl is obviously the reason why and I use myself as the basis. I recognize that melee is, as of now (and probably for the next couple years if not always), a deeper, more competitively suited game, BUT that's not enough.

I play smash to become good, money, recognition, etc. and to a lesser degree for fun. To become "good" at brawl requires much less work than in melee, brawl offers more money because more play it, and because its easier to get good at brawl and because many characters are seriously underdeveloped compared to melee, its easier to gain recognition.

On the other hand melee should win the fun aspect, right? Since its better and all? But no. Its more fun once you reach a certain level, but before that its frustrating and awkward. Brawl is SOOO much more noob friendly, which means one can have fun (competitive level find of fun) far easier than in brawl. The majority of people won't think about how fun it will be once I invest time, they'll think what's fun now.

I personally have had this struggle. Watching any vid from ROM vs a falco ditto for example...... brawl vids are just painful and melee vids are the exact opposite.... but every time I get wrecked in melee i just remember why I don't play and its not just because I loose, because I loose in both game, its how. Its also about how I've put WAY more time into the melee than brawl and yet I know nothing about melee really (relative to all that there is to know), my marth sucks, and playing feels awkward. =(

tl;dr version- no one new is coming to melee, because its too hard, but it will keep/get back people who have played when brawl gets boring.
 

Sukai

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There is alot of truth in that.
Melee require alot of dedication, and with all the pros running around owning everyone, it's not good for actual skill progression, not noob friendly at all.
 

rehab

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1. Its more fun once you reach a certain level, but before that its frustrating and awkward.
2. no one new is coming to melee, because its too hard
1. This is how it is with any game. Even Brawl. Since I am ******** or something, it took me months to get all the options I have at any given time under comfortable control, along with the physics of my character. With harder games, it may take longer, but it's the same process of finding what works and getting comfortable with it. Taking up Melee, Street Fighter, or Team Fortress, it's the same stuff of finding out what works, starting humble, getting help, getting stuff under your fingers and playing that ish. It may take longer, but you can't know until you invest in it. It's not like you'll beat people who have been playing better for a longer time anyway, as long as the game isn't completely stupid.

2. Speak for yourself.

3. Playing for recognition, and expecting it early, is playing for meaningless recognition. Challenge yourself, not others' views of yourself. Those will naturally change with time.

Also: The standard Melee "vet" is, what, mid twenties? They don't seem in terrible danger of organ failure lol. If they get bored with the game, that's just a part of playing of playing it for as long as they felt like. The 16 year old crybabies of the smash community must simply step it up 10000% and replace them :lick:
 

rathy Aro

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1. This is how it is with any game. Even Brawl. Since I am ******** or something, it took me months to get all the options I have at any given time under comfortable control, along with the physics of my character. With harder games, it may take longer, but it's the same process of finding what works and getting comfortable with it. Taking up Melee, Street Fighter, or Team Fortress, it's the same stuff of finding out what works, starting humble, getting help, getting stuff under your fingers and playing that ish. It may take longer, but you can't know until you invest in it. It's not like you'll beat people who have been playing better for a longer time anyway, as long as the game isn't completely stupid.

2. Speak for yourself.

3. Playing for recognition, and expecting it early, is playing for meaningless recognition. Challenge yourself, not others' views of yourself. Those will naturally change with time.

Also: The standard Melee "vet" is, what, mid twenties? They don't seem in terrible danger of organ failure lol. If they get bored with the game, that's just a part of playing of playing it for as long as they felt like. The 16 year old crybabies of the smash community must simply step it up 10000% and replace them :lick:
1. Takes me a week or so to feel comfortable with a brawl character. I can't say how long it would for melee cuz its never happened. =/

2. I'm not saying my thought path is right, just that its probably the common way people think, which leads me to predict no one new is coming to melee.

3. Its not about expecting recognition early, but expecting it ever. My brawl sheik sucks now, but becoming the best brawl sheik seems like a possibility (though slight) where as becoming the best melee marth is not only borderline impossible, but its would require insane amounts of time, money, and thought.

I agree that the melee players of the past aren't going anywhere, in fact I bet the brawl playing ones will get tired of brawl in a year or two and come back to melee. I just doubt there will be many if any new melee players. I personally will still dabble in melee, but the chance of me entering a melee tourney ever is LOW.
 

rehab

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I mean learning about what is punishable versus what isn't, how to move around the right way, how to respond to people, shield options at any given time, and edgeguarding. I didn't pick that up in my first days playing smash/brawl, and I'm not going to know reversal options, throw loop options or optimum wakeup control in Street Fighter day one, execution aside. It's all about knowing what the particular game wants you to do to win, it's just different games make you know different stuff, and some games take longer to learn than others. How long did it take you to have that kind of "comfort zone" in Brawl? Do you have it?

Can you say that you would be comfortable enough with a character you picked up a week beforehand to play them in tournament? Even if you just used them as a conterpick, against somebody with a disadvantage, if the other player is any meaningful level of good, they have almost assuredly played that match more than you have, and they likely have a backlog of stage counterpicks and character specific tricks with their character, so you probably haven't leveled the playing field in a meaningful way, unless you are outright smarter than them.

Becoming the best anything requires a whole other level of commitment. I can't even describe how hard it must be to travel all over the place and beast/outplace everybody else in your field. You can play to be better than you were before, and enjoy it, without forcing yourself to endure that level of commitment (and pain lol).

If you just don't like the game, by no means force it on yourself. I don't like hating on people for what they play, since everybody can find something to hate about any game/community/area of interest.

But as long as this thing gets played, simply being a moderately technical game and having skilled players shouldn't keep people from playing it. That stuff is nearly universal.
 

Cinder

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no one new is coming to melee, because its too hard
*chuckles* I find this statement ironic...would you like to know why? Because I regularly see new faces in the Melee community...people that have never played Melee and played Brawl saying "hey, Melee looks a lot faster...maybe I should try it and quit this crappy Brawl"...

So yeah, I beg to differ...I'll admit that there aren't as MANY, but there are still SOME...
 

Super_Sonic8677

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*chuckles* I find this statement ironic...would you like to know why? Because I regularly see new faces in the Melee community...people that have never played Melee and played Brawl saying "hey, Melee looks a lot faster...maybe I should try it and quit this crappy Brawl"...

So yeah, I beg to differ...I'll admit that there aren't as MANY, but there are still SOME...
Then it's not Ironic, it's just wrong lol And your over-aggresiveness against Brawl is just what I'm talking about XD
<3 Cinder
 

Cinder

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Then it's not Ironic, it's just wrong lol And your over-aggresiveness against Brawl is just what I'm talking about XD
<3 Cinder
At least I have a reason...and at least I don't attack Brawlers...unless they act like idiots (and thus turn into Brawltards)...

Besides, one of the factors in my Brawl-breaking was me getting fed up with "Melee WILL die and you will all be FORCED to play Brawl"...
 

~ Gheb ~

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Cinder, you're being a douche now. Those people, who say that Melee will die and that everybody should play Brawl are the minority. Most people, who play Brawl also like Melee and I don't know any person with a sane mind, who wants the Melee scene to "go down". For that reason alone Melee won't die anytime soon.

people that have never played Melee and played Brawl saying "hey, Melee looks a lot faster...maybe I should try it and quit this crappy Brawl"...

Quitting Brawl for that reason is premature because a lot of the different modes and options aren't used enough. If they think Brawl is slow they should've just played heavy mode. You can shuffle really fast and a lot of things may remind people of Melee (faster gameplay, more gimps and- belive it or not - more combos) are still playable.

But yeah, let's rather throw a game in the trashcan before you even know what you can do with it.

:059:
 

Teran

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no one new is coming to melee, because its too hard,
I just got some people into Melee last week. Play the game, show them what they can do with a bit of practice, don't **** them too hard so you don't discourage them.

Voilà! We have new Melee players!

It's actually easier than people say it is to pick up technically. It's just the application of that knowledge which takes a bit of time and PRACTICE, which isn't really hard to get if you actually play the game instead of going "Boo hoo Melee's so hard I'll never learn! :cry:"
 

omnicloud7strife

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rathy, have we not had this conversation? lmao. Anyways, you make good points. You CAN figure new tricks out in Brawl that no one's done yet, because it's new. Of course, you CAN do that with Melee... but it's crazy hard. CRAZY I TELL YOU! Believe me, I have tried. People have then said, "No, we did that already, and it sucks." But, eh.

In terms of getting comfortable with a character? Well... I feel you shouldn't ever feel comfortable. If you're comfortable, you're not trying hard enough. I loathe my Fox. LOATHE him. Because, I'm not better than perfect. I can't move him the way I want to every time. My Wavedashes and Waveshines are terrible, my short hop is complete fail, and I can barely do a SHL if my life depended on it, let alone consistently. But, I play Melee.

I'll give you this, my friend: Brawl is n00b friendly. And, I think that was it's point. I'm able to do a lot in Brawl with my Fox that I can't do well in Melee. Like, Short Hops, SHLs, SHDLs... and, I can't juggle, Dash Dance (for fear of tripping), Drill Shine (which I suck at anyways...), or Shine Spike people. Because... Well, Brawl has a philosophy: Everyone can be the best. That's why I'm not a huge fan. It's a fighter. Logic tells me that ONE GUY will be the best.

There's probably a lot more that I wanna say, but I'm not here to flame Brawl, or prop Melee up. I mean... I'm not posting this post to do that. But, putting aside both game's differences, and such... I think it's important to remember the following: Success is only as good as the effort you put into it. The harder you work, the greater the reward.

Food for thought. Enjoy.
 

Dark 3nergy

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Super Smash Brothers. is a franchise.

Wikipedia said:
The term "franchise" is used to describe business systems which may or may not fall into the legal definition provided above. For example, a vending machine operator may receive a franchise for a particular kind of vending machine, including a trademark and a royalty, but no method of doing business. This is called "product franchising" or "trade name franchising".

Franchising dates back to at least the 1850s; Isaac Singer, who made improvements to an existing model of a sewing machine, wanted to increase the distribution of his sewing machines. His effort, though unsuccessful in the long run, was among the first franchising efforts in the United States. A later example of franchising was John S. Pemberton's successful franchising of Coca-Cola.[1] Early American examples include the telegraph system, which was operated by various railroad companies but controlled by Western Union[2], and exclusive agreements between automobile manufacturers and operators of local dealerships.[3] Earlier models of product franchising collected royalties or fees on a product basis and not on the gross sales of the business operations of the franchisees.

Modern franchising came to prominence with the rise of franchise-based food service establishments. This trend started before 1933 with quick service restaurants such as A&W Root Beer.[4] In 1935, Howard Deering Johnson teamed up with Reginald Sprague to establish the first modern restaurant franchise. [5] [6] The idea was to let independent operators use the same name, food, supplies, logo and even building design in exchange for a fee.
If you play Smash you are unquestionably apart of the franchise. For all the good an bad it has to offer. Brawl is the current one we have to work with.

Let me ask those of you reading this thread.


If Brawl was exactly like Melee in every sense, would you still buy it?












From my point of view, no i wouldnt buy it. Why buy something i already got? Why would you spend 49.99$ on something thats virtually the same thing as the previous generation?

So what am i getting at? Well as part of a franchise, Sakurai and his team wanted to 'explore' new avenues for their franchise. Thats good! That would mean a whole new experience for us, the customers and fans to love and adore. This is a massive part of what being part of a franchise is all about. Improvement. This is what they tried to do with the transition from SSB to Melee, then Melee to Brawl. I'll touch on that in abit.

But lets get back to Melee for a second. Melee is what many people call a gemstone of the SSB series due to its game engine, the good speed it offers and character balance. People enjoy it. We can all sit here, shake hands an say "Yes, Melee is a good game." In regards to, keeping said game alive, depends on how WILLING the player BASE is to continuously play it. We've been playing it for along time now. Some people were more willing to put it to bed and not pick it up again. Thats ok. Others, its not the same way.

Now, forgive me OP but let me step into the realm of MELEE>BRAWL for a second. Because i think for the most part, the hype is whats causing the back lash for most Melee players.

Now..from my point of view, i read some of the things people had to say previous to Brawl's release. There seemed to be quite alot of hype as to how much better it was going to be than melee. But suddenly, they get the game and its; slower, camper, and theres some characters with alot of 60:40 match-ups. I know the first thing that went through alot of Melee fans heads where, "Wow, i feel betrayed." And here we are in the mist of a back lash. Hardcore Melee fans vs the new comers with Brawl. Its really a horrible thing to see. Because Melee fans are suffering, yet the new comers seem to be absent as to how they feel.

I sympathize with Melee goers that hate Brawl. Because I know how they feel. But the harsh reality is, your a part of a franchise. The newer generation of Smash and its Creator have decided to take their franchise in a different direction leaving you behind. That's quite a smack in the face to someone thats been with it for so long.

Everyone seems to get so edgey over trying to compare both Melee and Brawl. But you know what i say to that?

Don't compare them.

They're separate games. Don't look at them as a numeric sequence.


Play them, for what they are. And appreciate them for what they are. While it does seem extremely contradictory for me to say Melee and Brawl are part of a franchise yet they are not -- the truth is they are part of the franchise, in name only. On the inside, they are totally different games. And thus should be seen as different games entirely.


As long as people are willing to play Melee OP, then Melee will still be here for you.

Keeping it alive? That's up to the Melee community as a whole.




tangent; I went to my local game stop the other day...and saw about 20 used Melee copies on the shelf. It made me sad really. The game doesnt deserve that.
 

rathy Aro

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,142


rathy, have we not had this conversation? lmao. Anyways, you make good points. You CAN figure new tricks out in Brawl that no one's done yet, because it's new. Of course, you CAN do that with Melee... but it's crazy hard. CRAZY I TELL YOU! Believe me, I have tried. People have then said, "No, we did that already, and it sucks." But, eh.

In terms of getting comfortable with a character? Well... I feel you shouldn't ever feel comfortable. If you're comfortable, you're not trying hard enough. I loathe my Fox. LOATHE him. Because, I'm not better than perfect. I can't move him the way I want to every time. My Wavedashes and Waveshines are terrible, my short hop is complete fail, and I can barely do a SHL if my life depended on it, let alone consistently. But, I play Melee.


I'll give you this, my friend: Brawl is n00b friendly. And, I think that was it's point. I'm able to do a lot in Brawl with my Fox that I can't do well in Melee. Like, Short Hops, SHLs, SHDLs... and, I can't juggle, Dash Dance (for fear of tripping), Drill Shine (which I suck at anyways...), or Shine Spike people. Because... Well, Brawl has a philosophy: Everyone can be the best. That's why I'm not a huge fan. It's a fighter. Logic tells me that ONE GUY will be the best.

There's probably a lot more that I wanna say, but I'm not here to flame Brawl, or prop Melee up. I mean... I'm not posting this post to do that. But, putting aside both game's differences, and such... I think it's important to remember the following: Success is only as good as the effort you put into it. The harder you work, the greater the reward.

Food for thought. Enjoy.
There are like a dozen people in the world comfortable with fox. You're not comfortable with him because fox is ****ing hard. =P

Playing melee is noble. Playing brawl is realistic. Brawl's simply not frustrating enough to play melee seriously again.

Edit: if you can convince people that playing melee makes you better at brawl then playing brawl you might get some new people. lol. There's plenty of evidence for this too: 50 percent of the top players played/play melee competitively.
 

momochuu

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
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NNID
Momochuu
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NO ONE CARES ABOUT MELEE! :mad:

I'm joking, of course.
 

Cinder

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
3,255
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Jag förstår inte. Vad sa du?
There are like a dozen people in the world comfortable with fox. You're not comfortable with him because fox is ****ing hard. =P

Playing melee is noble. Playing brawl is realistic. Brawl's simply not frustrating enough to play melee seriously again.
So, not playing Brawl makes you unrealistic?

Edit: if you can convince people that playing melee makes you better at brawl then playing brawl you might get some new people. lol. There's plenty of evidence for this too: 50 percent of the top players played/play melee competitively.
Completely BS'ed statistics...if not, show us these stats, prz...

And last I checked, "you'll get better at Brawl" isn't an incentive we use to get players, and LO AND BEHOLD, we still get new faces...you have to stop assuming that every new player thinks Melee is too hard...just because you failed miserably to become a competitive player doesn't mean no one's gonna take the challenge...like it or not, there ARE some people that are willing to go the extra mile and would rather play Melee, even though they're new to the scene...and it doesn't make them unrealistic...

This post makes me sick >.>
 

Firus

You know what? I am good.
BRoomer
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Virginia
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OctagonalWalnut
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Playing melee is noble. Playing brawl is realistic. Brawl's simply not frustrating enough to play melee seriously again.
Lolwut.

No.

Basically, you're saying "Brawl isn't that bad, suck it up, you're in your own, imaginary world if you play Melee." I don't play Melee competitively but I play it consistently and it's fun as hell. There's a feeling you get from Melee which you don't get from Brawl.

Playing Brawl is not "realistic" unless you just enjoy it more.

Edit: if you can convince people that playing melee makes you better at brawl then playing brawl you might get some new people. lol. There's plenty of evidence for this too: 50 percent of the top players played/play melee competitively.
So we have to say "Brawl is superior, play Melee for training!" if we want new players for Melee?

Not to mention that it WON'T. Brawl is so different that playing Melee for training won't work. For one thing, you're gimped every time you go back to Melee from Brawl because you're used to being in the air for five minutes and grabbing ledges without facing them. So we could try to convince people Melee is great for practice, but people with half a brain will likely realize that it's not.
 

HT F8

Hostile Takeover
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
917
Location
Newburgh, NY
There are like a dozen people in the world comfortable with fox. You're not comfortable with him because fox is ****ing hard. =P

Playing melee is noble. Playing brawl is realistic. Brawl's simply not frustrating enough to play melee seriously again.

Edit: if you can convince people that playing melee makes you better at brawl then playing brawl you might get some new people. lol. There's plenty of evidence for this too: 50 percent of the top players played/play melee competitively.
I'm a nobody, and I'm perfectly comfortable with my Fox. Spamming Nair->Shine isn't too hard. ^_^

Also, your post comes off as you being an ignorant Brawler that doesn't know much about the game. Melee isn't dying or anything, it's doing just fine. There's a ****load or tourneys in the tristate area.

No offense btw, I'm not calling you ignorant, just saying that 1 post comes off that way. ^_^
 

MoblinMan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
168
Location
Denver, Colorado
This thread has degenerated, like all the others of its kind. However, I'd like to say something that may get it back on topic. (I.e. keeping melee alive and well WITH brawl.)

Hi.

I'm new to the smash scene. Relatively. I was posting on this forum long before brawl was released. However, I went competitive soon after I got Brawl. I barely knew the timing for L canceling in Melee, at the time. I turned 16 last September.



However, something really, really, cool happened to me this week.


The guys in my smash scene (<3 Colorado) and I were playing at a brawl tourney. There were also a few TV's with melee set-up, but the "organization" was only offering competitive tourneys for Brawl. I felt like giving melee a try, so I went over and got te best smasher in my scene to pwn me in it. If anyone's ever got tech-chased repeatedly by captain falcon, it feels like you're getting run over by a train!!!

But I was in awe. I got some sweet wavelanding lessons, and played ganon dittos for the rest of the time I was at the hotel. (It was an anime convention)

By the time I left, I had SHFFLing down really well and I was starting to do some Dair combos. Not because I was particularly good, but because there were a few good friends that went through it all with me, kinda like tutors or teachers.

So, of course, I had a blast. Have you ever Dair combo'd with ganon? Even if you use Yoshi or something: The cool thing about melee is even if you get 3 stocked consistently, at the end of every match you can look back and say, "ouch... but that combo I pulled off on you right before I got tipman edgeguarded was effing EPIC!" and get right back into it.

Needless to say, I had a blast. But hey, guess what? I'm not quitting brawl. Brawl is fun. I've decided Melee is, too. Melee is honestly like learning a sport - once you've got the basics down, a whole new world opens up, in which you're not even caring about the possibility of you being the "best," but more, you're thinking: "Wherever I go with brawl, I really wouldn't be complete without this game in my reportoire, too."

No new people in melee? It might be too late for people to join the FRANCHISE, but not MELEE. What I'm saying is, if people can end the hate- IF - please? -

HEY melee players... it might not be as good as Melee, but you don't HATE playing it, right? Especially when you've got awesome people to show you how to enjoy it.

HEY brawl players.... It might not be as good as Brawl, but you don't HATE playing it... Right?? Especially when you've got some awesome friends on the scene to show you how to get good.

At the very LEAST, appreciate the fact that people are different... Therefore, people have different tastes. However, just like in a normal relationship with anyone - if you want to be their friend, focus not on what keeps you apart, but what keeps you together.
Everyone in my scene are the same people. Because everyone plays smash.
 
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