Megaman X: Day of Death. ~ EVERYBODY DIED. SCUM WINS. GAME OVER.

[Boatchouli]

Poor emotional statement that requires nothing from Raziek.

A better way to get at the same emotional argument and to rile Raziek up would be to say things like

"You've been absent all game and only speak up when someone accuses you or asks you a direct question. All your posts are short, pointless, and more often than not excuses."


Just trying to help your game out.

That was just for our own shiggles.

 

[Raziek]

So is an answer still required of me? I'm somewhat confused.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Tery isn't doing much to make me think he is town, I'm not liking his recent posts as I read this right now. I'm considering him a possible better lynch over Boat just from that alone, he;s staying at the edge of the pool and not getting into the deep end.

@OS: JTB until he gives more is a giant null. I want him to change this very soon hopefully.

Boat's defense is half way agreeable, at points I do agree it is WIFOM and not conclusive, Circus defending him is not totally conclusive to him being scum. Issue I have is, why Boat over anyone else to defend?

That alone bugs me when I reread Circus and see the defense put up for Boat, yet he's fine with others to go? I do not think Circus was planning that far ahead, even more so how soon him wagon just popped up.

Ryker deflected a lot though, he said we have a different read list, though he doesn't provide scum picks. Puts WIFOM back with why Circus wouldn't change, though it makes some sense here. the TTGL almost completely avoided the question and comment all together.

Boat explains that Raziek was on early for what looked like a no lynch. How was a no lynch more likely? There is nothing to show that it was more likely that a scrambled lynch. Boat explain this more to me.

 

[Gova]

Right click, save as.

1. Inferno3044 ()
2. JTB ()
3. Overswarm (1) Xatres
4. Red Ryu ()
6. Analytical Buttheads ()
7. Rajam ()
8. Nicholas1024
9. Xatres (1) JTB
10. Terywj ()
11. Raziek (1) Boat
12. Boatchouli (4) RR, OS, Raziek, Nich
13. Frozenflame751 ()

Not voting - Inferno, AB, Rajam, Tery, FF

With 12 playing, it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is September 30th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[Overswarm]

OS, are you still in support of a Boat lynch?

As opposed to who?

You all don't seem to understand that I don't care if I lynch town. At all. Like it's not even a momentary thought. I expect to lynch town because if scum is even halfway competent it should happen at least once just from the sheer odds. How many players? 13? Out of all of those you'd expect at least one town player to fit into the null/scummy category, and it's not a bad thing for town to lynch them.

Sometimes it's best to play the odds.

"Hey, Boat COULD be scum or could not. We can see what we would know from his lynch, expand upon that pre-lynch, and potentially lynch him and get reads based off his flip" is smarter than "Boat is DEFINITELY scum".

Because saying someone is definitely scum in mafia is stupid. Even if you're right, you're just killing one scum and only getting the info that the scum player has given you already. You gotta make that scum player give you your information, or you gotta really, really, really expand your knowledge base on the day by making everyone give stances repeatedly and note changes and why. Abrupt changes are almost always town. Scum will rarely 180º.


I know FF is town. I know AB is town because of that color thing. I'm pretty positive you're town Nich, or at least not mafia; this doesn't stop you from being an indie but I'm not worried about that for right now. I'm town. Other than that I can lynch just about anyone, but I'm more concerned about activity levels and when someone thinks they're safe and they wipe the sweat off their forehead.

So as a short answer to your question, sure, I'm fine with killing Boat. Circus' setup of him is pretty obvious and gives me pause, but if Ryker was ACTUALLY inactive it could be a panicking scum not wanting his teammate to disappear. The early defense of Ryker doesn't fit with a post-flip plan anyway, due to how early it was and how fast Circus' lynch was. It's a bucket of wifom leaning with circus being legitimate to a townie to earn himself town points or defending a scummate stupidly. I don't really care either way.

Given Boat's activity levels I'd rather lynch JTB though. That guy's a blank slate. Boat can hang himself another day for all I care. But I'll vote for whichever one town decides, both my big reads are already out of the question.

 

[Overswarm]

So is an answer still required of me? I'm somewhat confused.

Show some initiative.

 

[Raziek]

Show some initiative.

I'm still not entirely sure which statement you're even referring to, since you just kinda stepped in to give Boat some tips, and I don't even....

If you want me to answer, please make the question crystal clear.

 

[Overswarm]

Boat explains that Raziek was on early for what looked like a no lynch. How was a no lynch more likely? There is nothing to show that it was more likely that a scrambled lynch. Boat explain this more to me.

All of town this game are sheep. If I wanted I could get you lynched today, easily. I deliberately made a bad case for AB to argue against to use him as bait and he had trouble getting out of it. There are two tunnelers, like three or four antagonistic players, and a bunch of sheep. There's only one philosopher playslot, no independent thinkers trying to convince town of anything, and exactly one rogue player.

That list makes any lynch that's going to occur very fast and nigh unpredictable. Under most games, you'd find this is not the case and you'd have two or three players with 2-4 or 5 votes each at the end of the day with everyone arguing. Circus being lynched was a result of an easily led town and didn't really fit the common mold.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

There was no reason for circus to defend boat unless he was a scumbuddy.


Boat has been a very popular lynch target all game, there's no reason to put himself at risk to make sure it can happen in the event he gets lynched especially since he had no reason to know he was getting lynched.


Furthermore, consistently defending against the lynch of somebody you have a null read on was bound to draw attention on a boat town flip, it reads absolutely like trying to gain town cred. Saying that you prefer somebody else is different, but when he crossed the line into consistent defense.


No, the way circus treated you is a massive scumtell for boat.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Actually, if it makes you feel better, my claim might knock two birds with one stone.

That's if I decide on claiming.

 

[Raziek]

Actually, if it makes you feel better, my claim might knock two birds with one stone.

That's if I decide on claiming.

 

[Boatchouli]

At least we agree on that, Raziek.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

If only I could vote.

Tery....

 

[Boatchouli]

Ok, so...

*Looks at playerlist*

I like OS, Circus, and Nich.

????

Alright Nich, I'll buy that.

unvote; vote: Circus

What changed between these two points? You hadn't shown any interest in a Circus wagon until that second quote. In fact you NEVER MENTIONED CIRCUS'S NAME AGAIN. Why did you think a Circus wagon would go through over a Boatchouli wagon?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

All of town this game are sheep. If I wanted I could get you lynched today, easily. I deliberately made a bad case for AB to argue against to use him as bait and he had trouble getting out of it. There are two tunnelers, like three or four antagonistic players, and a bunch of sheep. There's only one philosopher playslot, no independent thinkers trying to convince town of anything, and exactly one rogue player.

That list makes any lynch that's going to occur very fast and nigh unpredictable. Under most games, you'd find this is not the case and you'd have two or three players with 2-4 or 5 votes each at the end of the day with everyone arguing. Circus being lynched was a result of an easily led town and didn't really fit the common mold.

I disagree.

Yesterday with more leeway there were more lynches possible, even then if someone said lynch FF, AB, or you I would have voted No lynch over that.

Today people are not going to lynch willy nilly with the info that is on the table. There are quite a few people who don't have the current means to be pushed for a lynch easily, me sure, Tery sure.

Inferno, Rajam, I can't see those being sheeped as easily at this point. At least for me, I'm not trying to push people for the sake of it. If an Inferno wagon started right now I would say, "Wait a sec why are we doing this? Is this the best option?" I wouldn't.

I don't see town acting like this on D2, D1 has far more leeway because people are for the most part running blind. D2 with a scum flip, I don't see that to be likely even with the NK. We have info people are going to look at the roads layed out for them first, not sheeping hard.

 

[Raziek]

What changed between these two points? You hadn't shown any interest in a Circus wagon until that second quote. In fact you NEVER MENTIONED CIRCUS'S NAME AGAIN. Why did you think a Circus wagon would go through over a Boatchouli wagon?

Circus disappeared for half the game, then Nich made a strong case on him? Circus played fairly Townie early on, I'm reasonably certain most people had him in the "null or better" group.

Besides, what are you even trying to imply here? That I bussed Circus instead of simply following the lynch on AB, FF, Tery, or You?

 

[Overswarm]

There was no reason for circus to defend boat unless he was a scumbuddy.


Boat has been a very popular lynch target all game, there's no reason to put himself at risk to make sure it can happen in the event he gets lynched especially since he had no reason to know he was getting lynched.


Furthermore, consistently defending against the lynch of somebody you have a null read on was bound to draw attention on a boat town flip, it reads absolutely like trying to gain town cred. Saying that you prefer somebody else is different, but when he crossed the line into consistent defense.


No, the way circus treated you is a massive scumtell for boat.

You just answered your own questions in that post. Saying "it's bound to draw attention on a boat fip, it reads absolutely like trying to gain town cred" after saying "there was no reason for circus to defend boat unless he was a scumbuddy" is incredibly short sighted.

Actually, if it makes you feel better, my claim might knock two birds with one stone.

That's if I decide on claiming.

Actually, that's a good idea. I can't believe I didn't think of that before.

Tery and Boat should both claim.

Think about it; we have four townies (me, nich, AB, and FF) that are either confirmed or close enough to confirmed to where it doesn't matter. Scum literally can't get to lylo without killing us. If Tery claim watcher or doctor or something, big whoop right? I'd rather have a confirmed town around then a power role.

So.


Tery and Boat claim, I think.

 

[Raziek]

I support this.

 

[Overswarm]

I disagree.

Yesterday with more leeway there were more lynches possible, even then if someone said lynch FF, AB, or you I would have voted No lynch over that.

Today people are not going to lynch willy nilly with the info that is on the table. There are quite a few people who don't have the current means to be pushed for a lynch easily, me sure, Tery sure.

Inferno, Rajam, I can't see those being sheeped as easily at this point. At least for me, I'm not trying to push people for the sake of it. If an Inferno wagon started right now I would say, "Wait a sec why are we doing this? Is this the best option?" I wouldn't.

I don't see town acting like this on D2, D1 has far more leeway because people are for the most part running blind. D2 with a scum flip, I don't see that to be likely even with the NK. We have info people are going to look at the roads layed out for them first, not sheeping hard.

You underestimate me. I'm tempted to get you lynched today just to prove to myself I could do it, but... no.

Circus disappeared for half the game, then Nich made a strong case on him? Circus played fairly Townie early on, I'm reasonably certain most people had him in the "null or better" group.

Besides, what are you even trying to imply here? That I bussed Circus instead of simply following the lynch on AB, FF, Tery, or You?

I think he's stated that plainly a few times, and I did it my first game here on D1. It's not uncommon at all. If you haven't noticed, everyone thinks you're town or neutral except Boat; this speaks for its authenticity on its own.

My reservations with that stem from Circus, not from you.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Tery and Boat claim, I think.

So who was facepalming again?

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

You just answered your own questions in that post. Saying "it's bound to draw attention on a boat fip, it reads absolutely like trying to gain town cred" after saying "there was no reason for circus to defend boat unless he was a scumbuddy" is incredibly short sighted.

No, I've checked off all the scenarios.

Circus usually goes for inactive lynches, so defending an inactive (as opposed to simply pushing another lynch). He's defending a null.

He wasn't gonna get town cred for it in the event of a ryker lynch and circus isn't dumb enough to think that this would make him look any better in the event of a ryker town flip.


Obviously this isn't absolute, he could've just made a random decision, but it strikes me as far too directed and concerted to be meaningless.

 

[Boatchouli]

Raziek do you know what you did D1?
Allow me to enlighten you as our recollections seem to be different, and I've recently refreshed my memory.

You did next to nothing. You managed to construct a piss poor case on Rajam and "push it"

However Rajam was inactive and you got absolutely nothing from it. You got no responses from it and no votes. What you did acomplish with it was sitting on the sidelines and only poking your head up when someone bothered you. When OS asked for two lynch suspects you mentioned Tery and never at any point did you elaborate upon that.

Then we reached the scramble at the end of the day. At the risk of an understatement you vote hopped quite a bit. You jumped from you Rajam case to an AB vote. You followed the wagon from AB to FF. You hopped off of FF and started voting Boat. At some point during this you voted for No Lynch of all things, under the banner of "I don't think it's right to push this thing through." I believe this is when you were voting FF.

You then, when bothered, unvoted. Lemme emphasize you unvoted NO LYNCH.
Then Nich comes along with his Circus case on the man you liked and otherwise hadn't referenced. You tell him "Alright Nich, I'll buy that."

There was no independant reasoning, there was no considering why, there was no push to make this lynch a reality. It remains my belief that you expected the wagon to stall out and the lynch to stall into nothing or revert back to Boat or Tery. This way your vote goes down in history as having been on the scum at the end of D1. While avoiding having to put your vote on Boat or the scummate that might have been lynched (This would be our other scum pick, Tery).

UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU, you misjudged the nature of this town and how fast the wagon would form on Circus. He was lynched. Miracle of miracles. But that was okay with you, you're sitting pretty as #2 on his wagon. There was no good way to get off it at that point so you rode the wave to D2.

AND HERE WE STAND, you remain a scummy player who repeatedly dodges our attempts to bring to light your lack of reasoning for your current vote, who "doesn't want to get into" why we're obviously scum, AND who continues to avoid meaningful contribution.

Our vote on you stays, and your final scummate is Tery. If we are wrong about Tery, then we simply move on to either Inferno or JTB.

So my kind sir, will you please proceed to making your response so I can judo the **** outta you.

Circus disappeared for half the game, then Nich made a strong case on him? Circus played fairly Townie early on, I'm reasonably certain most people had him in the "null or better" group.

Besides, what are you even trying to imply here? That I bussed Circus instead of simply following the lynch on AB, FF, Tery, or You?

Once again allow me to refresh your incorrect recollection. Circus disappeared for about 2 or 3 pages between where you said you liked him and his next post. After that he continued to post until his demise. Most of it consisted of how he was less than satisfied with the town's inability to get their noses away from OS' posterior.

You never explained why Nich's case on him was strong, until now you haven't even said Nich's case on him was strong, you simply said "I'll buy that," and have gone with the flow.

What we are trying to >imply here is that your vote on Circus was not genuine. It far from clears you, it was not something that you were considering, and it certainly does not outweigh the scummy activities committed prior to that wagon.

 

[Boatchouli]

Tery and Boat claim, I think.

I will volunteer to claim first if you add Raziek to that list.
Unless Tery's claim, which implies further information, would alleviate the need for either Raziek or I to claim. In which case he should speak up after a plan of action has been decided upon and before the first person claims.

 

[Boatchouli]

@OS - AB is not cleared. Both Adum and Gheb were aware of the shenanigans that took place in Resident Evil 4 mafia and could EASILY have inquired about the color of the town role PM in an effort to bolster their claim. This is taking for granted that scum weren't provided with example role PMs as safe claims from the get go. Do you honestly think this is something Adum couldn't fathom as he loves meta information?

If you want to clear him based on his play, that's fine, but NOT based on his role PM color.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Just lemme know what I need to do in regards with claiming.

 

[Overswarm]

Because AB, Boat, and Raziek seem to keep chasing their tails, I'm going to lay it out real clear for e'rybody.


As SCUM, could Raziek have LEFT the Circus wagon without bringing undue attention to himself?

No.

Given the fact that Circus' lynch came as a surprise, I don't think it's really possible that Raziek and Circus, both being scum, would have considered Raziek's vote to be part of a successful lynch effort. As such, Raziek's possibility of being scum and being the second vote doesn't clear him. QUID PRO QUO'D.

Raziek's push on Rajam was on a completely inactive player, but had a reason for questioning; I've questioned people for similar things, we all have, and Rajam didn't respond. Pressuring someone to respond is common. Null.

Circus defended Boat. He did so specifically on more than one occasion. Despite what AB says, Circus does NOT "traditionally go for inactive lynches". It's just as likely that Circus picked a town player under fire to latch onto and use as a human shield later in the game. I watched Circus play one game as two people. You can go read that game if you want, look at both of his roles. You can actually see how he defends HIMSELF. Talk about meta reading. This does not clear nor harm Boat; it merely makes him a tasty lynch choice should we not have a BETTER one. Boat is the king lynch of the inactives, in other words. If Boat is talking, I don't mind moving to someone else. Like Red Ryu, to prove I can get him lynched. :B



So now that that's done, I'm gonna go ahead and take the reins again because you guys can't seem to move farther than a straight line.


We need Frozen Flame back soon.


Anyway, Tery, you claim first and you claim the moment you get back. In full. Don't mention your color if you don't want to get modkilled.

You say what you think your claim means for town.

 

[Overswarm]

Just lemme know what I need to do in regards with claiming.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

As in like a relatively general consesus, buddy.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

ITT: Tery is major suck at spelling

 

[Overswarm]

As in like a relatively general consesus, buddy.

No, as in claim now, as in no stalling.

 

[Overswarm]

Circus, you should really put yourself on invisible. You give things away.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

OS, you are aware if both are town PR we could be outing them early? I assume you have thought about this before this point?

Because I am hesitant to go along with this.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Rest assured I have no intentions on stalling. However, just because you're one of my confident town reads does not mean I will be following you completely blindly. The rest of the town should also have a say in this.

 

[Boatchouli]

Don't expect us to claim without a Raziek claim.

 

[Overswarm]

OS, you are aware if both are town PR we could be outing them early? I assume you have thought about this before this point?

Because I am hesitant to go along with this.

Go along with what? I didn't ask you to do anything.

What's the worst that could happen? That mafia kills a power role? Oh no, now they have to choose between a power role or a confirmed townie? I don't really care about giving mafia decision anxiety.

Besides, if they're a huge power role and they assume it better in town's interests they can always just, I dunno, ****ing lie.

Boat, the town watcher, says "Vanilla townie".

WHAT NOW MAFIA?






See? People can do that.






OR

¿

He could be like

"Town watcher, I saw AB visit FF yesterday"

and we'll be like

:O :O :O :B :O (the one with a :B is me)


Then we get a 50/50 chance of someone lying, which is always good for town to find out

most of the time

















REGARDLESS.


I don't see much of a downside to this.

 

[Overswarm]

Rest assured I have no intentions on stalling. However, just because you're one of my confident town reads does not mean I will be following you completely blindly. The rest of the town should also have a say in this.

 

[Analytical Buttheads]

Tery, CLAIM. Seriously. You said too much already.

Circus defended Boat. He did so specifically on more than one occasion. Despite what AB says, Circus does NOT "traditionally go for inactive lynches". It's just as likely that Circus picked a town player under fire to latch onto and use as a human shield later in the game. I watched Circus play one game as two people. You can go read that game if you want, look at both of his roles. You can actually see how he defends HIMSELF. Talk about meta reading. This does not clear nor harm Boat; it merely makes him a tasty lynch choice should we not have a BETTER one. Boat is the king lynch of the inactives, in other words. If Boat is talking, I don't mind moving to someone else. Like Red Ryu, to prove I can get him lynched.

In this game did he defend somebody that he cited as a null read from a lynch train?

Actually, just cite it please, I'd like to read over this play himself.

Don't expect us to claim without a Raziek claim.

How about you get wagoned until you're at l-1 and somebody says they're willing to hammer AND THEN you claim?

FOS: Boat


To tell you the truth, that was my intended results for this, OS forcing you to claim early would just speed things up.



Also @ OS and your case, the issue wasn't that getting out of the case was difficult in and of itself. It was that you made it too ****ing late.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Alrighty alrighty.

I'm a Vengeful Maverick, Launch Octopus. So yeah, standard "if lynched can execute someone" etc. etc. I can choose not to use this ability if I want.

I figured if people think I'm scum along with other targets, they can lynch me so I can execute the other targets? Hence the "two birds one stone" or something.

 

[Overswarm]

eh? Which one? I can't keep track of 'em all. I don't even know if the one you're talking about was legitimate o_o

 

[Overswarm]

That's ****ing awesome. Hahahahahahaha.


Okay, okay, my person thing? We lynch Tery. Raziek will hammer. Boat will lead the lynch. Tery will kill JTB.

I'm open to interpretations of this play as well as other suggestions, but I think I covered all the bases and give town a pretty good shot at tomorrow given that whoever mafia NKills is going to give us a lot of information or leave us with only players we have a lot of information about.

YA DIG?