Media Chimes in on Competitive Smash (Prima Games)

[EPsilon933]

It makes me rather sad that people are trying to change a game into something they want in order to meet their own selfish desires before it even comes out. About how many people criticizing the game have even played it? I'm not saying it's perfect, but c'mon. It's a beta. Just let the team handle it, and you can bash the game after it comes out, hopefully after trying it at least once.

Or better yet, don't bash the game, and let those who like it, like it. Smash 4 does not delete Melee from existence. People seem to act like it does.

It's good to want good things. From what we can tell, Smash 4 doesn't look like a good thing

Selfish? Really? We're potential customers. If Nintendo wants our money, they need to make it appeal to us too. Sakurai's been talking so much about reaching a balance between Brawl and Melee and what we can see currently leans too much toward Brawl. Nintendo is asking for feedback and we are discussing the game at its current state that they've shown us. Hopefully they're reading these boards. I think having a right to an opinion should include thinking something's bad. And we should also have free speech. Bashing the game is just a combo of the 2

Smash 4 will delete Melee from existence. Competitive gaming leagues make their money from games that get the most views. Smash 4 is fresh on everyone's mind. Everyone's going to want to see it. No one's going to want to see a game they're been seeing for the last 13 years again. Players will flock to it because competitive games with thriving tournament scenes are really nice to compete in. There will be floods of new players for Smash 4, unlike Melee, and there will be floods of new tournaments for Smash 4 (run by bigger tournament organizers)

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Yeah, footstooling really contributed a lot to the metagame, right? Go watch a recent Brawl grand finals match at a major tournament and count how many footstools you see. You know what you do see? Players staring each other down and spamming their safest moves in place until one of them gets bored and commits to a risky approach and gets punished to hell for it. Check out Esam vs. Armada from earlier this month and tell me that's not what this game is about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mijuVqioX-4#t=1073

It's a good thing Smash 4 is faster than Brawl.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

The arrogance in this post is literally staggering. It's so arrogant that...I ain't even mad. Dude, you must some sort of master troll. Hats off to you and such.

I don't follow. In what way do you think I'm trying to magnify my abilities or self-importance?

 

[Deleted member]

It's good to want good things. From what we can tell, Smash 4 doesn't look like a good thing

Selfish? Really? We're potential customers. If Nintendo wants our money, they need to make it appeal to us too. Sakurai's been talking so much about reaching a balance between Brawl and Melee and what we can see currently leans too much toward Brawl. Nintendo is asking for feedback and we are discussing the game at its current state that they've shown us. Hopefully they're reading these boards. I think having a right to an opinion should include thinking something's bad. And we should also have free speech. Bashing the game is just a combo of the 2

Smash 4 will delete Melee from existence. Competitive gaming leagues make their money from games that get the most views. Smash 4 is fresh on everyone's mind. Everyone's going to want to see it. No one's going to want to see a game they're been seeing for the last 13 years again. Players will flock to it because competitive games with thriving tournament scenes are really nice to compete in. There will be floods of new players for Smash 4, unlike Melee, and there will be floods of new tournaments for Smash 4 (run by bigger tournament organizers)

"We" is a minority as far as I can tell.

Selfish, because you are trying to change something into something it is not. Smash 4 is not Brawl. Smash 4 is not Melee. Having something closer to Brawl is not a bad thing. If you think it is, just go play Melee. The rest of us who wish to play Smash 4 will play Smash 4. Bashing the game is a really immature way to go about things. You can think it's bad, that's okay. You should not have the right to crap on the game's fans though, or make unfair judgments before the game even launches. You are harshly criticizing a beta. If you really cared about Smash, you would allow Sakurai to make the game the way he wants, and not try to force him to change things. And if you don't buy the game, that is your choice. There will be many others who will. You certainly don't have to buy it. No one is forcing you.

Smash 4 will not delete Melee from existence. If the tournament players see it as an inferior game to Melee, then people will continue to play Melee. Heck, even if people do see it as an upgrade, Melee will still have its dedicated fanbase. Consider how long Smash 64 has survived on its extremely dedicated fans. Not to mention, copies of Melee will still exist in the world, thus, still exist.


But then again, you have the right to ignore me (and you probably should) because I like Brawl, and that is a sin apparently. I would just hate to see this game potentially fail because people are so harshly criticizing a beta. I doubt that will happen, but with all the negativity, I get really paranoid.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I don't follow. In what way do you think I'm trying to magnify my abilities or self-importance?

I'm talking the arrogance of assuming that everyone can easily learn Wavedashing, or that advanced techniques are SOOOO easy. Your tone comes across as condescending and frankly, rude. Sure, maybe for you it's easy, but there are a great deal of people out there for whom such things are NOT.

 

[Gameboi834]

ITT, Melee vs. Brawl. Again.

C'mon guys, give it a rest and stay on topic.

 

[EPsilon933]

"We" is a minority as far as I can tell.

The players who go out to tournaments and watch streams are like as small as 1% for this game

Selfish, because you are trying to change something into something it is not. Smash 4 is not Brawl. Smash 4 is not Melee. Having something closer to Brawl is not a bad thing. If you think it is, just go play Melee. The rest of us who wish to play Smash 4 will play Smash 4. Bashing the game is a really immature way to go about things. You can think it's bad, that's okay. You should not have the right to crap on the game's fans though, or make unfair judgments before the game even launches. You are harshly criticizing a beta. If you really cared about Smash, you would allow Sakurai to make the game the way he wants, and not try to force him to change things. And if you don't buy the game, that is your choice. There will be many others who will. You certainly don't have to buy it. No one is forcing you.

Having it closer to Brawl is a bad thing because it's a bad game. Sure Melee players can play it by themselves, but that'll be all they'll have left. They won't get any new players joining the scene, or hardly at all. Plenty more will convert to Smash 4. If we really cared about Smash, we would advise Sakurai to make the right decisions. There's still time to fix the things we perceive as mistakes. The expected lack of players remaining in our scene will be a threat to our tournament scene. Tournaments need players to survive

Smash 4 will not delete Melee from existence. If the tournament players see it as an inferior game to Melee, then people will continue to play Melee. Heck, even if people do see it as an upgrade, Melee will still have its dedicated fanbase. Consider how long Smash 64 has survived on its extremely dedicated fans. Not to mention, copies of Melee will still exist in the world, thus, still exist.

There will be some portion of Melee players converting to Smash 4. Some of them have faith in the game. The outspoken ones are the ones who bash it. Smash64 hardly exists as a competitive game. It doesn't have a local tournament scene. Anyone who plays it aside from Isai also plays another Smash game competitive because that game has a much more existent tournament scene. Even if Melee were downloadable on the Wii U, it would not attract new players well because it's a 13 year old game. It's now new

But then again, you have the right to ignore me (and you probably should) because I like Brawl, and that is a sin apparently. I would just hate to see this game potentially fail because people are so harshly criticizing a beta. I doubt that will happen, but with all the negativity, I get really paranoid.

Liking Brawl is just bad taste. The criticism sounds harsh, but a lot of the players just want the best to happen to this game

 

[Deleted member]

Having it closer to Brawl is a bad thing because it's a bad game.

Liking Brawl is just bad taste.

OPINIONS? WHAT ARE THOSE? NEVER HEARD OF THEM!!

CAN'T LET SOMEBODY HAVE ONE OF THOSE!!

Fine. Brawl's my guilty pleasure then -____-. Forgot admitting that you liked it meant you were a bad person.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

I'm talking the arrogance of assuming that everyone can easily learn Wavedashing, or that advanced techniques are SOOOO easy. Your tone comes across as condescending and frankly, rude. Sure, maybe for you it's easy, but there are a great deal of people out there for whom such things are NOT.

I understand that some people have trouble doing advanced techniques, what I don't like is when they blow the difficulties of performing such maneuvers way out of proportion. It's not arrogant or condescending to call them out on that.

 

[LancerStaff]

What if it still looked exactly like rolling?

Still no. Unless there's some simple way of making an invincible roll you can attack out of work, it will always be no.

Well that wouldn't align with Sakurai's words. He talks about attempting to cater to all and any fanbases, so why would he be more influenced by other countries' input on the matter?

The man can't read a lick of English. He might not even know he's upseting competitive players overseas.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Who even likes Prima games anyway? They were always the guide I skipped on the wall when looking for guide books as a kid, and thus, I do the same to their opinion.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Am I the only one who found this article kind of whiny? As has already been established here, there are options that are being discovered and most seem to agree the invitational is a poor representation of competative smash 4.

Also, rather than discovering new options the author is just asking Sakurai to make Melee Two essentially. I for one like the fact that this game is shaping up to be its own thing.

 

[HeroMystic]

It makes me rather sad that people are trying to change a game into something they want in order to meet their own selfish desires before it even comes out. About how many people criticizing the game have even played it? I'm not saying it's perfect, but c'mon. It's a beta. Just let the team handle it, and you can bash the game after it comes out, hopefully after trying it at least once.

Or better yet, don't bash the game, and let those who like it, like it. Smash 4 does not delete Melee from existence. People seem to act like it does.

I don't really like this train of thinking. While I do understand your annoyance with the situation, the userbase has the privilege and ability to say what they dislike about the demo, and telling them that they shouldn't only serves to antagonize them.

In the end all the players want is a fun Smash game, and if you're on these boards it's likely you want to have the ability to compete as well. Everyone has their vision of the perfect Smash game, and I don't believe any vision is inherently better than the other.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I understand that some people have trouble doing advanced techniques, what I don't like is when they blow the difficulties of performing such maneuvers way out of proportion. It's not arrogant or condescending to call them out on that.

Again, you're assuming because it (apparently) comes so naturally to you that everyone else should find it as easy. There is a reason that I will never try to ever become a tournament player in a JFighter like BlazBlue, GuiltyGear, StreetFighter, ect. and that's because I don't have the most dexterous of fingers. Even doing quarter-circle movements still provides me with some difficulty. Doing Wavedashing? Forget about it. Maybe if I played Smash Bros. 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for three years, I might be able to pull it off fairly regularily, but by that point, it ceases to become a game and becomes a job.

And tournament pay offs just aren't worth the dedication.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't really like this train of thinking. While I do understand your annoyance with the situation, the userbase has the privilege and ability to say what they dislike about the demo, and telling them that they shouldn't only serves to antagonize them.

In the end all the players want is a fun Smash game, and if you're on these boards it's likely you want to have the ability to compete as well. Everyone has their vision of the perfect Smash game, and I don't believe any vision is inherently better than the other.

That is true; I just hate that because it isn't like the tournament players vision of the game, it is a huge deal. For those of us who like the ease of access and want it to remain accessible to possibly use it to branch off into tournament play in the future might have trouble adapting if more and more crazy stuff from Melee is actually added to the game. I am awful at Melee, and I find it extremely difficult to get into. I'll play it casually fine but playing it alone I am extremely self conscious of how bad I am.

I just want a game that people don't hate you for enjoying.

tbh, i'd be fine with dash dancing being added

 

[EPsilon933]

Again, you're assuming because it (apparently) comes so naturally to you that everyone else should find it as easy. There is a reason that I will never try to ever become a tournament player in a JFighter like BlazBlue, GuiltyGear, StreetFighter, ect. and that's because I don't have the most dexterous of fingers. Even doing quarter-circle movements still provides me with some difficulty. Doing Wavedashing? Forget about it. Maybe if I played Smash Bros. 8 hours a day, 7 days a week for three years, I might be able to pull it off fairly regularily, but by that point, it ceases to become a game and becomes a job.

And tournament pay offs just aren't worth the dedication.

Either you're natually abnormally bad, or you're exaggerating a lot. Also, to play traditional fighting games well, you need an arcade stick. Regular game pads are horrible. You don't have as fast and precise movement needed to do control stick motions like double quarter circles and you don't have instant access to all the buttons. Your thumb has to manage 4 face buttons

Wavedashing is easy muscle memory. It's jump > hit or keep holding down-right or down light > R. It's a 4-9 frame timing. Maybe up to 11 or 12 if you allow yourself to leave the ground a little

Some tournament goers don't like practicing the game and just go there for fun and friends. Winning isn't important for some of them

That is true; I just hate that because it isn't like the tournament players vision of the game, it is a huge deal. For those of us who like the ease of access and want it to remain accessible to possibly use it to branch off into tournament play in the future might have trouble adapting if more and more crazy stuff from Melee is actually added to the game. I am awful at Melee, and I find it extremely difficult to get into. I'll play it casually fine but playing it alone I am extremely self conscious of how bad I am.

I just want a game that people don't hate you for enjoying.

tbh, i'd be fine with dash dancing being added

Even Melee is an easy to learn game. Fighting games, by their inherent design, are a difficult genre to learn. The tournament-depth of the game is hidden. However, there's just a large skill gap in the game

Everyone will find a reason to hate someone

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Either you're natually abnormally bad, or you're exaggerating a lot. Also, to play traditional fighting games well, you need an arcade stick. Regular game pads are horrible. You don't have as fast and precise movement needed to do control stick motions like double quarter circles and you don't have instant access to all the buttons. Your thumb has to manage 4 face buttons

Wavedashing is easy muscle memory. It's jump > hit or keep holding down-right or down light > R. It's a 4-9 frame timing. Maybe up to 11 or 12 if you allow yourself to leave the ground a little

You severely underestimate my stupid fingers. As for a sticks vs. D-pad, I actually play worse with a stick. I can't feel the direction I'm going in and usually end up over/undercompensating grossly and screwing up whatever I'm attempting to do.

EDIT: Also, since when is Smash Bros. a 'traditional' fighting game? For me, it couldn't be any further from the truth.

 

[Deleted member]

Wavedashing is easy muscle memory. It's jump > hit or keep holding down-right or down light > R. It's a 4-9 frame timing. Maybe up to 11 or 12 if you allow yourself to leave the ground a little

It may be easy to remember, (There's no way I'd forget how to do it) but half the time, I end up jumping, and air dodging backwards. It may not be hard to preform, but it's consistently executing it where it becomes a problem. Taunting is easy. You just push up on the d pad. Boom.

Please don't mistake this for me wanting Wavedashing to be a single button thing. If Wavedashing was doable by pressing a single button, that would be ridiculous.

 

[Cassio]

Yeah, footstooling really contributed a lot to the metagame, right? Go watch a recent Brawl grand finals match at a major tournament and count how many footstools you see. You know what you do see? Players staring each other down and spamming their safest moves in place until one of them gets bored and commits to a risky approach and gets punished to hell for it. Check out Esam vs. Armada from earlier this month and tell me that's not what this game is about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mijuVqioX-4#t=1073

I think this is just expressive of your ignorance of the game if you believe either of those things. If you believe that, then you must also believe melee is just people spamming moves onto shield all day and then dying without any game interaction. These sort of unsubstantiated biases only demonstrate who should not have a say in the direction of smash's future.

 

[ryuu seika]

I feel I need to say this:

I don't like Brawl. It may be hard for you to understand, given my dislike of certain Melee specific mechanics but I really don't.

I was never a fan of L-cancelling (it seemed unnecessary since it would have had the same effect if landing lag were simply less) or wavedashing but when I played Melee casually, boy did I take that game seriously. I just couldn't do that with Brawl.

Personally, I would be perfectly happy with a auto-L'd, wavedash free Melee but that's not what we're going to get and, IMO atleast, that's not a problem. The game is clearly faster paced than Brawl. It's exciting to watch. How then can it not be so to play? The only issue we've seen is an ability to lockdown certain matchups with move spamming.
Yes, this needs an answer, if one doesn't exist already, but that's all this game needs.

Furthermore, such an answer should fit with the new game as an extension of its mechanics, not rehash the old.

 

[EPsilon933]

You severely underestimate my stupid fingers. As for a sticks vs. D-pad, I actually play worse with a stick. I can't feel the direction I'm going in and usually end up over/undercompensating grossly and screwing up whatever I'm attempting to do.

EDIT: Also, since when is Smash Bros. a 'traditional' fighting game? For me, it couldn't be any further from the truth.

You're probably not used to playing on a stick yet. Does it use a square gate?

I think I horribly misworded something somehow. Smash is not a traditional fighting game

I was never a fan of L-cancelling (it seemed unnecessary since it would have had the same effect if landing lag were simply less) or wavedashing but when I played Melee casually, boy did I take that game seriously. I just couldn't do that with Brawl.

So you think the effect of l canceling would be better if it were automatic. I totally agree. Sadly Melee players more often don't

Personally, I would be perfectly happy with a auto-L'd, wavedash free Melee but that's not what we're going to get and, IMO atleast, that's not a problem. The game is clearly faster paced than Brawl. It's exciting to watch. How then can it not be so to play? The only issue we've seen is an ability to lockdown certain matchups with move spamming.
Yes, this needs an answer, if one doesn't exist already, but that's all this game needs.

Furthermore, such an answer should fit with the new game as an extension of its mechanics, not revisit the old.

Smash 4 with wavedashing might be better, but it might not be extremely crucial. It just opens up ground spacing options which open up strategies. The biggest problem with Smash 4 from what we can see is the excessive attack lag. It makes approaching too risky. If that were fixed along with a little bit more physics tweaking, the game would certainly be good enough (imo)

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

You're probably not used to playing on a stick yet. Does it use a square gate?

I think I horribly misworded something somehow. Smash is not a traditional fighting game

Square gate? You mean like the ridges on the GC controller?

And no worries, I tend to be a master of the obtuse as well as misreading people. XD

 

[Deleted member]

The biggest problem with Smash 4 from what we can see is the excessive attack lag. It makes approaching too risky. If that were fixed along with a little bit more physics tweaking, the game would certainly be good enough (imo)

Suddenly Ganondorf is viable again. I'd be totally okay with this though. I have no qualms with this, but why would anyone complain about faster attacks?

 

[Cassio]

Having it closer to Brawl is a bad thing because it's a bad game. Sure Melee players can play it by themselves, but that'll be all they'll have left. They won't get any new players joining the scene, or hardly at all. Plenty more will convert to Smash 4. If we really cared about Smash, we would advise Sakurai to make the right decisions. There's still time to fix the things we perceive as mistakes. The expected lack of players remaining in our scene will be a threat to our tournament scene. Tournaments need players to survive

Objectively, Brawl is not a bad game. It's typically a statement made of ignorance or from people on repeat that cannot measure a game on its value and instead repeat what they hear from other parts of the community (not trying to be mean just being honest about those who criticize the game). Also, cusomters are bad at creating products, and if the loud part of the community had its say theyd simply make an easier version of melee which is not only a bad idea but doesnt follow Nintendos trends at all. Lastly, its pretty silly to assume a new game will hurt melee. People intentionally dividing the community is what will hurt melee.

 

[EPsilon933]

Square gate? You mean like the ridges on the GC controller?

And no worries, I tend to be a master of the obtuse as well as misreading people. XD

A square gate restricts the movement you can do on a joystick to the shape of a square. Gamecube controllers would have an octagon gate if the octagon shape can be considered a restrictor game

Suddenly Ganondorf is viable again. I'd be totally okay with this though. I have no qualms with this, but why would anyone complain about faster attacks?

Ever heard of casual complaining that Melee is too fast? I have

 

[Rᴏb]

Honestly whenever I see melee fanatics complaining about pace and movement options I imagine a call of duty player at a chess tournament standing up during a match screaming "Damnit! Why can't there be more movement options! The pace of the game is so slow!".

Kinda funny how you mention chess, the game that can be played as slow, or as fast as you like.
There is a Melee analogy somewhere in here, but I'd rather not contribute any more to this repetitive argument that never finds closure due to a lack of empathy.

EDIT: I'll share a tip though, putting the word "objectively" in front of an opinion doesn't actually make your opinion objective.

 

[Deleted member]

Ever heard of casual complaining that Melee is too fast? I have

...

I find Melee hard to get into, but what? Sure it's fast, but too fast? Too fast = turbo mode. Too fast would be if Brawl Minus was an official game.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

A square gate restricts the movement you can do on a joystick to the shape of a square. Gamecube controllers would have an octagon gate if the octagon shape can be considered a restrictor game



Ever heard of casual complaining that Melee is too fast? I have

Ah, I might have to look into that then. It might make things a little easier for me when it comes to the traditional fighting games. I love BlazBlue and P4Arena dearly, but I can't play them to save my life.

I am one of those who thinks that Melee is too fast. I also think that high level play (at least watching it) seems disjointed, jerky and not at all flowing, as if all the SHFFLing were unnatrual. To be fair though, I do agree that Brawl is slower than it needs to be. A middle of the road would honestly be perfect for me.

 

[EPsilon933]

Objectively, Brawl is not a bad game. It's typically a statement made of ignorance or from people on repeat that cannot measure a game on its value and instead repeat what they hear from other parts of the community (not trying to be mean just being honest about those who criticize the game). Also, cusomters are bad at creating products, and if the loud part of the community had its say theyd simply make an easier version of melee which is not only a bad idea but doesnt follow Nintendos trends at all. Lastly, its pretty silly to assume a new game will hurt melee. People intentionally dividing the community is what will hurt melee.

I have my own experience with playing Brawl at tournaments. My opinion comes from that. We might be bad at game design, but we still might be capable of recognizing designs that are worse than ours. Melee players would totally make it Melee 2 if they had full control. I don't think Smash 4 weakening Melee's scene is a silly idea. Melee will lose its spot in MLG and EVO when Smash 4 releases because competitive gaming leagues stream popular games to get more stream viewers for stream ads. And their tournaments need to have enough entrants too. No more massive exposure for Melee. It will not gain new players from this

 

[Cassio]

Ah, I might have to look into that then. It might make things a little easier for me when it comes to the traditional fighting games. I love BlazBlue and P4Arena dearly, but I can't play them to save my life.

I am one of those who thinks that Melee is too fast. I also think that high level play (at least watching it) seems disjointed, jerky and not at all flowing, as if all the SHFFLing were unnatrual. To be fair though, I do agree that Brawl is slower than it needs to be. A middle of the road would honestly be perfect for me.

Don't let anyone convince you that melee is better just because its faster, lol.

 

[EPsilon933]

...

I find Melee hard to get into, but what? Sure it's fast, but too fast? Too fast = turbo mode. Too fast would be if Brawl Minus was an official game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXgpGBbh5r8&feature=kp

Look at how many inputs happen per second

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Don't let anyone convince you that melee is better just because its faster, lol.

Oh, I never thought that. I love Brawl, even despite some of its flaws. If Sm4sh corrects those few flaws, then it'll be as close to perfect as you can get, in my opinion at least.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Yeah, I agree that melee was too fast, but Brawl was a little too slow. This game is comfortable.

 

[Deleted member]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXgpGBbh5r8&feature=kp

Look at how many inputs happen per second

That isn't too fast though. That's normal gameplay. It is too fast for me, sure, but I wouldn't take points off a game for being too fast.

 

[ImaClubYou]

I wonder how these Melee vs. Brawl argumets will turn out when Smash 4 actually releases.

Hey, if we hype up Smash 64 we might even get some nice free for alls!

and of course we'll have a very silent army from the 3DS version!

 

[RODO]

I've learned two things today. First being if something is too hard then just wait for it to get easier, don't actually strive to get better (also it seems that people have no hope for the human race in general). Second is don't give advice on how someone should market a product to you even though they are taking your money.

I'm sorry guys I just can't do this arguing anymore. Getting too frustrated.

 

[Cassio]

Honestly, people blow its flaws out of proportion and never bothered to take the game seriously in the first place. Its like writing a book review from a book the reviewer never read. The game is frustrating and difficult to watch unless youre invested, but competitively its fine.

I have my own experience with playing Brawl at tournaments. My opinion comes from that. We might be bad at game design, but we still might be capable of recognizing designs that are worse than ours. Melee players would totally make it Melee 2 if they had full control. I don't think Smash 4 weakening Melee's scene is a silly idea. Melee will lose its spot in MLG and EVO when Smash 4 releases because competitive gaming leagues stream popular games to get more stream viewers for stream ads. And their tournaments need to have enough entrants too. No more massive exposure for Melee. It will not gain new players from this

Most critics never bothered to play the game seriously after 2012, which is a pretty big baseline for anyone attempting to state they can judge Brawl as a game (big shifts in the metagame). In any case, I can be certain that anyone who played before that doesnt know enough about the game to criticize its true value. However, I understand people not liking the game but thats something different.

Also smash 4 isnt whats threatening melee at MLG and EVO. Its old age. It would be an issue whether or not a new smash game was coming out.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I've learned two things today. First being if something is too hard then just wait for it to get easier, don't actually strive to get better (also it seems that people have no hope for the human race in general). Second is don't give advice on how someone should market a product to you even though they are taking your money.

I'm sorry guys I just can't do this arguing anymore. Getting too frustrated.

Not everyone wants to turn their game into a job, nor does everyone enjoy such a thing. There's difficulty and then there's unnecessary difficulty in what was (originally) a very simple game.

But I've learned on this site that many competitive players cannot stand anything being at all easier.

 

[HeroMystic]

That is true; I just hate that because it isn't like the tournament players vision of the game, it is a huge deal. For those of us who like the ease of access and want it to remain accessible to possibly use it to branch off into tournament play in the future might have trouble adapting if more and more crazy stuff from Melee is actually added to the game. I am awful at Melee, and I find it extremely difficult to get into. I'll play it casually fine but playing it alone I am extremely self conscious of how bad I am.

I just want a game that people don't hate you for enjoying.

Personally, I don't feel Melee is hard to get into. However, I don't compete in it for more personal reasons.

I enjoyed Brawl for what it is, so much that I played it competitively, but I find Melee to be the better competitive game (With Project M trumping both of them). Ironically, this isn't because of the lack of Melee ATs in Brawl, but just due to the lack of offensive varieties in Brawl.

So for me, Smash 4 with a few tweaks will be a good fit. I believe this applies to a large number of people, so I wouldn't let the downer opinions affect you.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I've learned two things today. First being if something is too hard then just wait for it to get easier, don't actually strive to get better (also it seems that people have no hope for the human race in general). Second is don't give advice on how someone should market a product to you even though they are taking your money.

I'm sorry guys I just can't do this arguing anymore. Getting too frustrated.

For me it's a question of do I even want to get better. Do I want to spend the necessary time and effort to succeed at Smash? Sure, it may have its rewards, but are they ones I care about? Is that time better spent somewhere else? This isn't developing some skill to get myself that promotion at work, it's spending hours trying to learn to play a video game at the community standard. I love Smash but I'm not sure I love it enough to want to overcome that difficulty barrier.