Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion

[Pikabunz]

I'm pretty sure you need to dash first. That's why you can't do a roll cancel grab from your shield.

 

[Jterr]

Link's up air has a narrow hit box but lasts forever so can frametrap opponents :D

 

[Vipermoon]

Link's up air has a narrow hit box but lasts forever so can frametrap opponents :D

It lasts forever? Plz nerf

 

[[Deuce]]

Knockback = ((((((t+d)/10+(((t+d)*d)/20))*(200/(w+100))*1.4)+18)*(g/100))+b)
Weight Based Knockback = ((((((10/10)+((10*s)/20))*(200/(w+100))*1.4)+18)*(g/100))+b)

t = Target Damage
d = Attack Damage
w = Target Weight
g = Knockback Growth
s = Weight Based Knockback
b = Base Knockback

Hitstun frames is the knockback value * 0.4 (rounded down).

Example 1: Marth's tipped forward smash hitting another Marth at 40%:

t = 40
d = 18
w = 90
g = 80
b = 80

Since it's not a move with weight based knockback, the regular knockback formula is used.

((((((40+18)/10+(((40+18)*18)/20))*(200/(90+100))*1.4)+18)*(80/100))+80) = 162.779

Example 2: Diddy Kong's jab 1 hitting Meta Knight.

w = 80
g = 100
s = 24
b = 0

Since the move has weight based knockback, the weight based knockback formula is used

((((((10/10)+((10*24)/20))*(200/(80+100))*1.4)+18)*(100/100))+0) = 38.222

Where does rage factor into this?

 

[Megamang]

I believe rage linearly increases total knockback from 1x to 1.15x from 50 damages to 150 damage.


What determines the lag from ground moves clinking? Sometimes i can win, sometimes my opponent clearly has frame advantage, but i dont see a pattern.

 

[Vipermoon]

I believe rage linearly increases total knockback from 1x to 1.15x from 50 damages to 150 damage.


What determines the lag from ground moves clinking? Sometimes i can win, sometimes my opponent clearly has frame advantage, but i dont see a pattern.

I feel like I've experienced rage before 50% (like my Uthrow killing before it theoretically should).

 

[Megamang]

That might be DI or bad vectoring. Though the shield health discovery makes me doubt everything we know...

 

[Jterr]

yeah the Master Sword sticks out for a while so sometimes even when your opponent airdodges it still hits if lined up correctly

It lasts forever? Plz nerf

 

[Vipermoon]

yeah the Master Sword sticks out for a while so sometimes even when your opponent airdodges it still hits if lined up correctly

Just a joke on your use of words.

forever
1. for all future time; for always

 

[Apeirohaon]

How did Link regain his jump in this clip? Someone said it could be that Link grabbed the ledge here but that still seems kind of weird, as he hadn't visibly reached for the ledge yet.

 

[Yikarur]

you sweetspot the ledge from relatively far away but you're not invincible until you've grabbed to the ledge . In that clip he definitely got the jump back at that point.

 

[Zage]

What's everyone's opinion on crouch canceling? With shields being frame 1, wouldn't shielding be a better response than crouching?

 

[Pikabunz]

So I was doing some testing on Pikachu's upthrow to thunder combo and noticed it was much easier to do on Fox than some of the other characters I tested. It seems to me that some characters build up more hitstun earlier than others. I went and recorded the percents on some characters on when they would get 42 frames of hit stun from Pikachu's up throw.

Fox - 94%
Falco - 113%
Metaknight - 117%
Pikachu - 121%
Jigglypuff - 124%
Mario - 137%
Ness - 137%
Samus - 148%
DDD - 151%

Does fall speed effect hitstun in some way? Has anyone else noticed combos being easier to connect on Fox than others?

 

[EnhaloTricks]

So I was doing some testing on Pikachu's upthrow to thunder combo and noticed it was much easier to do on Fox than some of the other characters I tested. It seems to me that some characters build up more hitstun earlier than others. I went and recorded the percents on some characters on when they would get 42 frames of hit stun from Pikachu's up throw.

Fox - 94%
Falco - 113%
Metaknight - 117%
Pikachu - 121%
Jigglypuff - 124%
Mario - 137%
Ness - 137%
Samus - 148%
DDD - 151%

Does fall speed effect hitstun in some way? Has anyone else noticed combos being easier to connect on Fox than others?

Fox is definitely easier to combo because of his fall speed. Sometimes hell just fall into combos. My theory is hit stun is affected by weight more than anything else because your list, if Im right, is in order from lightest to heaviest (and Ness is medium heavy, despite what he looks like).

 

[Jterr]

Just a joke on your use of words.

forever
1. for all future time; for always

I knew it was going to be taken wrong lol

 

[Vipermoon]

So I was doing some testing on Pikachu's upthrow to thunder combo and noticed it was much easier to do on Fox than some of the other characters I tested. It seems to me that some characters build up more hitstun earlier than others. I went and recorded the percents on some characters on when they would get 42 frames of hit stun from Pikachu's up throw.

Fox - 94%
Falco - 113%
Metaknight - 117%
Pikachu - 121%
Jigglypuff - 124%
Mario - 137%
Ness - 137%
Samus - 148%
DDD - 151%

Does fall speed effect hitstun in some way? Has anyone else noticed combos being easier to connect on Fox than others?

I have noticed that Fox and Captain Falcon are very easy to combo. I dismissed it as high gravity and fall speed bringing them closer to you for followups before hitstun ends. But I never understood why it didn't work for DDD (or even Falco) even with factoring weight. This is really weird. Like why can't Jiggs take the most hitstun being the lightest? Why is Mario and usually Ness ALWAYS able to air dodge my down throw with average specs while Marth isn't? Why is Marth extremely susceptible for Doc's Dthrow to Fair and MK's prostate exam combo (percentage range-wise)? So yeah a lot of things don't make sense. Actually, could you test Marth?

This has to mean the hitstun formula is not what we assumed it was. It's more complicated. There has to be a pattern somewhere but I'm coming up with nothing. Your list is random when it comes to weight, gravity, and fall speed.

 

[Horseketchup]

I guess this is sort of open ended question for the frame wizards out there, but I've been wondering exactly the best way to work out shield advantage/disadvantage for aerials as they would more realistically be used in play. In other words, for when you're not just theoretically hitting shield on the last possible frame before you hit the ground, and instead hitting the top/middle part of the shield as you're descending.

Obviously there's extra frames of air time added, but I'm just curious what are some realistic ranges for the amount of frames between when you can hit shield and when your landing lag actually begins? Lets just use Mario as an example since he has average falling speed, and assume he's hitting a full shield bubble with his bair out of a shorthop. Lets assume the character shielding is also Mario:

1) If he hits the highest part of the shield possible with the first active frame of bair, approximately how many extra frames of "air time" will it add to the disadvantage?

2) What would be the rough frame difference if he hit the middle of the shield instead?

3) And if he was fastfalling in those same scenarios above, approximately how many frames quicker would it be?

4) Also would there be any functional difference to the advantage/disadvantage if you hit later on in the bair animation instead of the first active frame (assuming it's the same damage hitbox)? Like after the initial collision begins hitlag for both sides...how do the rest of the active frames interact with shield, and do more/less active frames affect your fall speed?

I know this is almost unreasonably specific for something that can be so variable, but I'm just trying to get a baseline of min/max ranges so I can grasp it better. Are there any other factors at play I'm missing? I just wanna understand the nitty girtty of this, any help at all would be really appreciated.

 

[Locke 06]

Pikabunz - vertical knockback scales with character specific gravity values. There is a separate equation for added gravity knockback, but how that equation and the regular hitstun equation interacts is a mystery to just about everyone. Added knockback = added hitstun.

Also, how the equation was derived is a question.

 

[Vipermoon]

For those who do not know, gravity is the acceleration value that shows how fast a character can reach their maximum falling speed (though I don't know about its units).

I am providing rankings to help us out. Source: http://www.ssbwiki.com/

Gravity:

1. Fox - 0.19
2. Falco - 0.13
3. Meta Knight - 0.11
4. Pikachu - 0.095
5. King Dedede - 0.08788
6. Mario - 0.08715
7. Ness - 0.077
8. Samus - 0.075
9. Jigglypuff - 0.05309

Fall speed:

1. Fox - 2.05
2. King Dedede - 1.95
3. Falco - 1.8
4. Meta Knight - 1.66
5. Pikachu - 1.55
6. Mario - 1.5
7. Ness - 1.31
8. Samus - 1.25
9. Jigglypuff - 0.98

Weight:

1. King Dedede - 119
2. Samus - 108
3. Mario - 98
4. Ness - 94
5. Falco - 82
6. Meta Knight - 80
7. Fox - 79 (tie)
8. Pikachu - 79 (tie)
9. Jigglypuff - 68

Percent required to reach 42 frames of hitstun from Pikachu's Uthrow:

1. Fox - 94%
2. Falco - 113%
3. Meta Knight - 117%
4. Pikachu - 121%
5. Jigglypuff - 124%
6. Mario - 137%
7. Ness - 137%
8. Samus - 148%
9. King Dedede - 151%

------------------------------------------------------
I am busy atm but can someone start looking for a pattern here that seems to work for all scenarios (and hopefully a formula)?

 

[Locke 06]

^there is more to fall speed accel than gravity (I'm pretty sure, but could be wrong. I'm mostly skeptical of your source and the fact that "vertical friction" exists). The formula, from brawl, for gravity based knockback is as follows:

(g - 0.075) * 5

 

[Ghostbone]

If Smash 4 is anything like Brawl, all characters get a certain boost to their vertical knockback (and some like Jigglypuff actually got a decrease), fox being the most obvious. It's an actual character attribute, and it's why Fox isn't ridiculously hard to kill off the top like he was in Melee (where he's just as light as this game).
So for Pikachu's up-throw, is Fox not just taking the most knockback out of all the characters? (he wouldn't go as high as jiggs because of his fall speed but he'd still be taking more knockback). Vipermoon, there'd just be some character attribute you're missing out that boosts the vertical knockback a character receives.

 

[Vipermoon]

^there is more to fall speed accel than gravity (I'm pretty sure, but could be wrong. I'm mostly skeptical of your source and the fact that "vertical friction" exists). The formula, from brawl, for gravity based knockback is as follows:

(g - 0.075) * 5

What's wrong with that source? It's not like they made those numbers up. Pit and Mario have 0.075 gravity in Brawl so theirs is 0? What about those less than 0.075? Is it then negative or is there an absolute value in play here? But yeah there's definitely more going on here than what we have.

If Smash 4 is anything like Brawl, all characters get a certain boost to their vertical knockback (and some like Jigglypuff actually got a decrease), fox being the most obvious. It's an actual character attribute, and it's why Fox isn't ridiculously hard to kill off the top like he was in Melee (where he's just as light as this game).
So for Pikachu's up-throw, is Fox not just taking the most knockback out of all the characters? (he wouldn't go as high as jiggs because of his fall speed but he'd still be taking more knockback). Vipermoon, there'd just be some character attribute you're missing out that boosts the vertical knockback a character receives.

Okay that is helpful. Still, 94%, that's like crazy low. You'd think Fox would die off the top extremely early (even with that fall speed) if it were like this. So how are we going to figure this out?

 

[Locke 06]

What's wrong with that source?

You know you're not a scientist/someone in academia when...

 

[Vipermoon]

You know you're not a scientist/someone in academia when...

That isn't funny. Either contribute or don't. I'd love to see you get a better source or tell me which of the mobility specs in ssbwiki are wrong. As far as I can tell Kurogane Hammer and sbbwiki match (hell, KH could have stolen those values from ssbwiki).

 

[Ghostbone]

Okay that is helpful. Still, 94%, that's like crazy low. You'd think Fox would die off the top extremely early (even with that fall speed) if it were like this. So how are we going to figure this out?

He doesn't die off the top especially early just because his vertical acceleration/"gravity" lets him live longer. Compared to Melee, Fox does die extremely early off the top.

I looked it up a bit more, essentially in Brawl characters had two different weight values. Weight 1 being the obvious one we all know, bowser being the heaviest, jiggs being the lightest, but another weight value (weight 2, often confused with fall speed but different), which only affected vertical knockback. Jigglypuff, Samus, and other floaty characters had negative weight 2, ie. they took less vertical knockback than you'd get from just their weight, while fast fallers had a positive weight 2 (fox's being ridiculously above everyone else, probably the same in this game) which increased the amount of vertical knockback they took.
To make it more confusing I'm pretty sure W2 only took affect once a character went into tumble or something, so Fox didn't fall out of Pikachu's chain-grab for example....

Not sure how all this compares to smash 4 mechanics, and I'm pretty fuzzy on the Brawl stuff, but yea I'd expect this to be the reason Fox takes way more hitstun off pikachu's up-throw than you'd expect from just his weight (as well as why Jigglypuff takes less hitstun than you'd expect.

 

[Locke 06]

That isn't funny. Either contribute or don't. I'd love to see you get a better source or tell me which of the mobility specs in ssbwiki are wrong. As far as I can tell Kurogane Hammer and sbbwiki match (hell, KH could have stolen those values from ssbwiki).

Except it's not funny. You're trusting an anonymous wikipedia page that anyone can contribute. I was questioning the definition of gravity that you pulled from the website. The numbers match Toomai's, who data mined the game back at the bottom of page 1 of the aerial speed thread in the academy. On mobile ATM but it's there.

KH happens to be a credible source, as Aero is an established contributor and has proven again and again that he knows his stuff and personally tests most of it. Don't go accusing things because you feel like it.

 

[Vipermoon]

He doesn't die off the top especially early just because his vertical acceleration/"gravity" lets him live longer. Compared to Melee, Fox does die extremely early off the top.

I looked it up a bit more, essentially in Brawl characters had two different weight values. Weight 1 being the obvious one we all know, bowser being the heaviest, jiggs being the lightest, but another weight value (weight 2, often confused with fall speed but different), which only affected vertical knockback. Jigglypuff, Samus, and other floaty characters had negative weight 2, ie. they took less vertical knockback than you'd get from just their weight, while fast fallers had a positive weight 2 (fox's being ridiculously above everyone else, probably the same in this game) which increased the amount of vertical knockback they took.
To make it more confusing I'm pretty sure W2 only took affect once a character went into tumble or something, so Fox didn't fall out of Pikachu's chain-grab for example....

Not sure how all this compares to smash 4 mechanics, and I'm pretty fuzzy on the Brawl stuff, but yea I'd expect this to be the reason Fox takes way more hitstun off pikachu's up-throw than you'd expect from just his weight (as well as why Jigglypuff takes less hitstun than you'd expect.

Wow it does get complicated. Is there a place you know of that has Brawl's W2 values? Or at least some of them? I'd like to check them out.

Except it's not funny. You're trusting an anonymous wikipedia page that anyone can contribute. I was questioning the definition of gravity that you pulled from the website. The numbers match Toomai's, who data mined the game back at the bottom of page 1 of the aerial speed thread in the academy. On mobile ATM but it's there.

KH happens to be a credible source, as Aero is an established contributor and has proven again and again that he knows his stuff and personally tests most of it. Don't go accusing things because you feel like it.

Well the definition of gravity in my post was my own. I didn't read the page. I get that it's a wiki but it's a pretty decent wiki at that, definitely way better than supersmashbros.wikia. I am familiar with the academy but I did know that (Smash 4's at least) the mobility numbers on ssbwiki are accurate so I used it for convenience.

 

[Lavani]

Where does rage factor into this?

x1.00~x1.15 to the end knockback amount, scaling from 30%(?) to 150%. Unsure if it's an even linear scaling, I've always assumed so but never looked into it.

What determines the lag from ground moves clinking? Sometimes i can win, sometimes my opponent clearly has frame advantage, but i dont see a pattern.

It was mentioned in here previously that both characters suffer the same amount of lag when their attacks clank each other out. If one attack does 9% or more than the other, the stronger attack isn't canceled out and it becomes the end lag of the stronger attack vs the recoil suffered by the weaker attacker. Additionally, some attacks (such as Mewtwo's jab) always continue after clanking, giving them significant frame advantage on clank.

That kind of danced around your question though. The real answer is "damage", the disparity is either from the damage gap being too big for both moves to be canceled or from moves being flagged to not cancel from clanks.

I guess this is sort of open ended question for the frame wizards out there, but I've been wondering exactly the best way to work out shield advantage/disadvantage for aerials as they would more realistically be used in play. In other words, for when you're not just theoretically hitting shield on the last possible frame before you hit the ground, and instead hitting the top/middle part of the shield as you're descending.

Obviously there's extra frames of air time added, but I'm just curious what are some realistic ranges for the amount of frames between when you can hit shield and when your landing lag actually begins? Lets just use Mario as an example since he has average falling speed, and assume he's hitting a full shield bubble with his bair out of a shorthop. Lets assume the character shielding is also Mario:

1) If he hits the highest part of the shield possible with the first active frame of bair, approximately how many extra frames of "air time" will it add to the disadvantage?

2) What would be the rough frame difference if he hit the middle of the shield instead?

3) And if he was fastfalling in those same scenarios above, approximately how many frames quicker would it be?

4) Also would there be any functional difference to the advantage/disadvantage if you hit later on in the bair animation instead of the first active frame (assuming it's the same damage hitbox)? Like after the initial collision begins hitlag for both sides...how do the rest of the active frames interact with shield, and do more/less active frames affect your fall speed?

I know this is almost unreasonably specific for something that can be so variable, but I'm just trying to get a baseline of min/max ranges so I can grasp it better. Are there any other factors at play I'm missing? I just wanna understand the nitty girtty of this, any help at all would be really appreciated.

I think in the majority of situations where you're aiming to land with an aerial you'll be looking at +1~3 frames, fastfalls get you to the ground quickly from shorthop height and you probably aren't hitting a shield at the peak of your shorthop if you're planning on landing with the aerial. Maybe up to around 12 frames in the "worst" case scenario? (Falling normally with a nair and hitting the top of a shield or somesuch)

Putting a number to something like Mario's sh bair where you're hitting on the way up is rather difficult, as it's less a question of "How many frames am I going to be stuck in front of my opponent for?" and more "Do they feasibly have the mobility to catch me after this?" You aren't committing to a landing, you're able to drift away immediately, and when you do land it's going to autocancel, so a character's ability to drop shield and cover ground affects the move's level of safety to a further degree than usual.

Assuming the same damage throughout, hitting later is better because it functionally means less endlag for you. After a hitbox hits something it won't hit that something again.

 

[Megamang]

Additionally, some moves wont hit a character after being powershielded, like heros spin.


Are you sure clanks always tie? I feel sometimes im wayyy behind, tho i guess thats related to the endlag of the moves being used.

 

[Vipermoon]

Additionally, some moves wont hit a character after being powershielded, like heros spin.


Are you sure clanks always tie? I feel sometimes im wayyy behind, tho i guess thats related to the endlag of the moves being used.

I thought Link's grounded up B won't hit even after a normal shield?

 

[Lavani]

Additionally, some moves wont hit a character after being powershielded, like heros spin.


Are you sure clanks always tie? I feel sometimes im wayyy behind, tho i guess thats related to the endlag of the moves being used.

That's kind of what I was referring to. Grounded Hero's Spin is a single hit, it hits you (or your shield) once and it isn't going to hit again, but it's still able to hit other characters and entities.

I thought clanks always being ties was inaccurate at first but every example I had in mind where it wasn't either had a damage disparity of ≥9% or involved a continue-on-clank move so it's true to my knowledge. You can use equipment to boost attack up to +200 and try clanking attacks again, you'll see the recoil lag last a lot longer.

 

[Pikabunz]

He doesn't die off the top especially early just because his vertical acceleration/"gravity" lets him live longer. Compared to Melee, Fox does die extremely early off the top.

I looked it up a bit more, essentially in Brawl characters had two different weight values. Weight 1 being the obvious one we all know, bowser being the heaviest, jiggs being the lightest, but another weight value (weight 2, often confused with fall speed but different), which only affected vertical knockback. Jigglypuff, Samus, and other floaty characters had negative weight 2, ie. they took less vertical knockback than you'd get from just their weight, while fast fallers had a positive weight 2 (fox's being ridiculously above everyone else, probably the same in this game) which increased the amount of vertical knockback they took.
To make it more confusing I'm pretty sure W2 only took affect once a character went into tumble or something, so Fox didn't fall out of Pikachu's chain-grab for example....

Not sure how all this compares to smash 4 mechanics, and I'm pretty fuzzy on the Brawl stuff, but yea I'd expect this to be the reason Fox takes way more hitstun off pikachu's up-throw than you'd expect from just his weight (as well as why Jigglypuff takes less hitstun than you'd expect.

That's probably how Smash 4 works then. I did another test where I up threw both Fox and Jigglypuff at 125% and even though Jigglypuff went much higher, the results at the end says that Fox took more knockback which also gave him much more hitstun. Fox went 82 ft and Jigglypuf went 65 ft.

 

[Vipermoon]

That's probably how Smash 4 works then. I did another test where I up threw both Fox and Jigglypuff at 125% and even though Jigglypuff went much higher, the results at the end says that Fox took more knockback which also gave him much more hitstun. Fox went 82 ft and Jigglypuf went 65 ft.

That's a really good way of checking knockback.

 

[Horseketchup]

I think in the majority of situations where you're aiming to land with an aerial you'll be looking at +1~3 frames, fastfalls get you to the ground quickly from shorthop height and you probably aren't hitting a shield at the peak of your shorthop if you're planning on landing with the aerial. Maybe up to around 12 frames in the "worst" case scenario? (Falling normally with a nair and hitting the top of a shield or somesuch)

Putting a number to something like Mario's sh bair where you're hitting on the way up is rather difficult, as it's less a question of "How many frames am I going to be stuck in front of my opponent for?" and more "Do they feasibly have the mobility to catch me after this?" You aren't committing to a landing, you're able to drift away immediately, and when you do land it's going to autocancel, so a character's ability to drop shield and cover ground affects the move's level of safety to a further degree than usual.

Assuming the same damage throughout, hitting later is better because it functionally means less endlag for you. After a hitbox hits something it won't hit that something again.

Thanks, really appreciate this response! Yea the 1-3 frames range helps a lot, I just wasn't sure if it was something like that or if like 1-8 frames was also a realistic range. Knowing that the hitbox only hits once is good too, I thought that was the case but wasn't sure if there was some other shield interaction I wasn't aware of.

Btw for Mario's bair I meant hitting on the way down though, I just phrased it weirdly. yea on the way up it'd be a whole different situation.

 

[Ulevo]

If Smash 4 is anything like Brawl, all characters get a certain boost to their vertical knockback (and some like Jigglypuff actually got a decrease), fox being the most obvious. It's an actual character attribute, and it's why Fox isn't ridiculously hard to kill off the top like he was in Melee (where he's just as light as this game).
So for Pikachu's up-throw, is Fox not just taking the most knockback out of all the characters? (he wouldn't go as high as jiggs because of his fall speed but he'd still be taking more knockback). Vipermoon, there'd just be some character attribute you're missing out that boosts the vertical knockback a character receives.

That's probably how Smash 4 works then. I did another test where I up threw both Fox and Jigglypuff at 125% and even though Jigglypuff went much higher, the results at the end says that Fox took more knockback which also gave him much more hitstun. Fox went 82 ft and Jigglypuf went 65 ft.

So does additional knock back incurred from DI influencing the length of the trajectory not add addition frames of hit stun? If I down throw, up smash, Shuttle Loop from 0% on Sheik, I can connect the Shuttle Loop with no DI used. But if the Sheik DI's to the left or right and I arc the Shuttle Loop to follow the trajectory, she can air dodge in time.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Hey, quick question for anyone that knows it (since we don't have a central knowledge repository... I'm working on that... slowly).

Can someone break down the directions indicated by the degree numbers attached to each move? For reference sake, say the character is facing right. Where is 0 degrees? Where's 90? 180? etc. I know there's a special Sakurai angle... is that 360?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Pikabunz]

So does additional knock back incurred from DI influencing the length of the trajectory not add addition frames of hit stun? If I down throw, up smash, Shuttle Loop from 0% on Sheik, I can connect the Shuttle Loop with no DI used. But if the Sheik DI's to the left or right and I arc the Shuttle Loop to follow the trajectory, she can air dodge in time.

It shouldn't. Vertical knockback moves don't get increased knockback from di/vectoring. If it was a horizontal knockback move it would probably get some increased hitstun, but only if there was some upwards di/vectoring.

Hey, quick question for anyone that knows it (since we don't have a central knowledge repository... I'm working on that... slowly).

Can someone break down the directions indicated by the degree numbers attached to each move? For reference sake, say the character is facing right. Where is 0 degrees? Where's 90? 180? etc. I know there's a special Sakurai angle... is that 360?

Thanks in advance!

0 degrees is straight right, 90 is up, 180 is left, 270 is down, and the Sakurai angle is 361.

 

[A_Kae]

Hey, quick question for anyone that knows it (since we don't have a central knowledge repository... I'm working on that... slowly).

Can someone break down the directions indicated by the degree numbers attached to each move? For reference sake, say the character is facing right. Where is 0 degrees? Where's 90? 180? etc. I know there's a special Sakurai angle... is that 360?

Thanks in advance!

For facing right, 0° is right, 90 is up, and 180 is left. Mirrored if facing left, so 0 is left and 180 is right.

360 is the same as 0, Sakurai angle is actually 361°.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

For facing right, 0° is right, 90 is up, and 180 is left. Mirrored if facing left, so 0 is left and 180 is right.

360 is the same as 0, Sakurai angle is actually 361°.

Sweet deal. I wish I could... favorite posts or something so that i could archive this faster. Either way, it's getting added.

 

[Lavani]

Hey, quick question for anyone that knows it (since we don't have a central knowledge repository... I'm working on that... slowly).

Can someone break down the directions indicated by the degree numbers attached to each move? For reference sake, say the character is facing right. Where is 0 degrees? Where's 90? 180? etc. I know there's a special Sakurai angle... is that 360?

Thanks in advance!

→0°
↑90°
←180°
↓270°

Angles over 360° have their own special rules rather than starting over at 0°.

361° is the Sakurai angle, which has a variable angle depending on the strength of knockback (0° with weak knockback, around 40° with higher knockback)

363° makes the launch angle match directional movement. It's only used for the travel hitbox of Extremespeed Attack, as far as attacks go.

365° and 366° are autolink angles, I don't recall if there's a difference in their nature but I feel like I remember it being something to the effect of them pulling the victim to a different point.

367° seems to be a vacuum effect, used in attacks such as Goetia, Snaring Aura Sphere, and Dedede Storm.

kind of ninja'd but oh well we got more info