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It works great on shields though, especially in that awkward moment when two players both shield infront of each other. But I agree it's not going to be really reliable because it is situational, however the situation to use it comes up pretty often. When I fully master this and learn what it can truly do i will show smashboards. But until then don't expect to see me too much.
Is this tech character specific? Don't Most down smashes just sweep the opponent away. I thought only Toon Link's down smash made attempts to link the two hits.
Mario, Luigi, rosalina, diddy kong, zelda, samus, Marth, meta knight, dr.mario, and Lucina. Can all do this tech, but rosalina and meta knight horrendously lack the shield pressuring capabilities that the other characters I listed have. Everyone else I listed can get a shield one hit away from breaking. Except for mario who can only get a shield within one hit by doing back air> side smash, and that requires really good spacing. This tech can be preformed two reliable ways by being right next to a shielding opponent then perfect pivot>down smash or jump backwards> down smash immediately after you land. The third way should never be relied on because only your opponent can cause it by messing up horribly, it is caused by one player charging a down smash and the other player walking/running right next to your character and shielding, it can also be done in this situation by someone walking straight into the down smash. If you space this technique right it is instant shield pressure guarentee. However if you space it perfectly the attack doesn't have to hit on shield and both hits will still connect usually dealing at least 20%. In conclusion this is a situational technique but is rewarding dealing enough shield damage to scare an opponent into not shielding until their shield regens. Also if you perfect down smash, which is what I think it should be called when you connect both hits on a down smash it is the strongest move you can do for weak characters like mario. If you don't think this important enough to be a legit technique I can accept that, because it's not hurting me. If you think this is informative I'm glad to be a help.
Edit: I think he hit with the last frame of Fair's spike hitbox which happens at frame 19, but at the same time, the late hit at frame 20, lasts until frame 30. Falco's Dair also auto-cancels before frame 4 and after frame 38. The full animation lasts until frame 51, so he can't act until frame 52. Hmm... I wonder if hit lag is prolonging his air time and allowing it to "go through" the full animation. This also apparently happens with his Fair where if he connects the entire move and lands, he won't suffer landing lag.
Knockback = ((((((t+d)/10+(((t+d)*d)/20))*(200/(w+100))*1.4)+18)*(g/100))+b)
http://sixriver.web.fc2.com/ssb4/Guard_Hitstop.htm
Apparently sixriver has a shieldstun calculator now, which calculates attacker hitlag, shielder hitlag, and shielder shieldstun, and has formulae for finding these three things. It also calculates frame (dis)advantage for using a move on shield. I have no idea how accurate it is, but it seems to match up fairly well with what I've observed.
The supposed formulae are:
Attacker Hitlag
(Attack Base Damage ÷ 2.6 + 5) x Hitlag modifier x Element modifier [1.5 if electric, 1 otherwise]
Defender Hitlag
(Attack Base Damage ÷ 2.6 + 5)
Defender Shieldstun
Attack Base Damage ÷ 2.56
A translated calc example usingusmash:
Remember to add 7 frames of advantage if they need to drop their shield to punish!
Shieldstun is calculated for each individual hit that connects.
That works for moves like Falco's Up Smash, but what about moves that realistically, they're going to hit multiple times and you can't hit each individual hits separately like Zelda's Up Smash?
So for moves that hit multiple times, the same thing applies. Each hit of the move connects with a shield, and does a certain number of shieldstun frames. You could think of it as using multiple moves, if that helps. Zelda's smashes aren't very good for examples since they have 0 frames of shieldstun on the first few hits, so I'll use an imaginary move for my example.That works for moves like Falco's Up Smash, but what about moves that realistically, they're going to hit multiple times and you can't hit each individual hits separately like Zelda's Up Smash?
Oh, and for aerials, you'll have to add (technically subtract) landing lag, right? So, Falco's Dair, using the shield stun calculator, would give him a -40 frame advantage, but he also has 23 frames of landing lag. That would make it -63. But for auto-canceling aerials like his Bair, if you go with the calculator and input the total frames, technically, the total frames are something like 4, his hard landing frames, instead of 37. Normally, it'd be -28 with 15 frames of landing lag making it -43. Inputting that would make it +5 on shield with shield dropping, +7 frames to the frame advantage, making it +12.
Yes, my brain hurts.
If it's just frame advantage you want, then just use the final hit's data for the calculator. That's the one that actually matters.
Thanks, I kind of figured it out. I'm "revamping" the Falco frame data to have a "raw" frame data which if people are really curious, they can click on the link, but then there's going to be the "combat" frame data which is pretty much for anyone who does not care for the intricacies i.e. everyone who isn't a data miner. Also adding stuff that's "standard" for fighting games like recovery frames, frame advantages, etc.
Some moves are positive like zss's and falcons uair or sheiks auto canceled fair. Then there are others not really negative like zss's bair. Technically a lot of moves can be positive with the whole shield lock frames continuing after shield stun thing. Hmm just noticed they are all aerials.
Smash 4 doesn't have different ledge options when you're over 100%.
Not different ones but aren't they slower over 100?
Exactly the same at all percents.
Yes. Assuming you mean that the result of the knockback formula is the same for both, and not that they have the same BKB and KBG.
Yep, the final knockback.
http://smashboards.com/threads/smas...ow-with-raw-real-values.383217/#post-18656263
Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for.
There's also a ground speed table in the running speed thread. Walk acceleration, stuff like that.
Press the input 9 frames before the animation end.
When you say 9 frames before the animations ends are you also referring to the end lag the animation has? Also, since you can only buffer one input at a time buffering a dash attack would be impossible right? Lastly, I'm seeming to have trouble buffering in general. For example, I dash attack and try to buffer a jump out of the dash attack. So I would have to wait for the dash attack end lag to wear off and 9 frames before it wears off I input jump so it comes out immediately right? When I do the dash attack I click jump let go but nothing happens.
Ok, so I must have not pressed jump in the 10 frame buffer window. However, what would happen if I tried to buffer a SH aerial within the same window? Would the aerial not come out, or would it come out but not be frame perfect?
